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-- BKS
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Ed
Automatic climate control is part of the Three Zone Temperature Control WITH rear air conditioner. Since there is no rear air available with short wheelbase, there is no Three Zone and no Automatic Climate Control. Can't understand why Traction Control and power liftgate not available.
Drive carefully!
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
It'll be interesting to see how it does in the offset crash and European crash tests, which should give a better overall picture.
carleton1 -- crash test scores are also important for good drivers. Ever heard of someone being hit while stopped? You can reduce your risk of accident through defensive driving but cannot eliminate the risk.
My sister really wants a new mini van this time as their current vehicle, a '99 Honda Accord LX sedan' is getting short in space since my nearly year old Nephew's arrival. The Accord is not a very accomodating vehicle for parents with babies...trunk space is minimal and the car seat literally takes up the rear seat room.
They have budgeted around $20K for a new car and as far as minivans go, the Chrysler products are the lowest priced minivans in the market making them a heck of a value. Most other vans from Toyota, Honda, Ford, Mazda retail at much higher price points. The GM minivans have good powertrains but their safety scores are extremely dissapointed. We had bad experiences with Ford products, so the windstar is out of question. The Toyota and Honda vans are very nice, but very expensive and for what I have been reading here in Town Hall, they do have their share of problems.
This leaves us with the Chrysler Voyager/Dodge Caravan. Last weekend we went to a Chrysler dealer and test drove a 'base' 2001 Voyager with the 2.4L engine and the 3-speed automatic. The van was silver (very beautiful vehicle by the way, not bad looking for a basic version)and had manual cranking windows and a basic AM/FM radio and A/C. Basically this is all they want if the settle for the Voyager.
I drove it myself, I enjoyed the quality of the ride and the general presentation of the cabin. Room and comfort are unbeatable at this price. The steering seemed a bit on the 'Vague' side or too overassisted and the engine while it haul the van, was sluggish off line.
I understand that most Voyager/Caravan buyers opt for the 3.3L V6 but I would like to receive feedback from owners of the 2.4L 4-Cyl engine. Is it a good reliable powerplant? Any known issues with it? The salesperson told me the engine is a Mitsubishi powerplant. Is this the case?
My sister doesn't really care about the extra punch of the V6 and I know she'll be a happy camper with the base engine.
Another area of concern is the 3-speed automatic. Is it more reliable than the infamous Chrysler 4-speed automatic? Alsp, any feedback on this would be appreciated.
We were also waiting for the NHTSA safety test results before making a final decision. By coincedence, these were made public yesterday and while not as good as the competition, I think the vans still feared pretty well.
The $2000 cash rebate or the $1000 rebate and special 5.9% deals are very tempting and hard to pass. These will expire on 7/3/01, so time is of an essence to make a final decision on this purchase.
Overall, we all liked the van, but would like to hear comments from 2.4L Voyager owners that 'Have been there and done that".
Appreciate everyone's input as we are looking to get it this weekend.
Cheers!
For me, a 5 star rating is NOT as important as having comfort items in a 4 star rated vehicle. My insurance company (USAA) gives me a nice discount based on safety RECORD of the Grand Caravan line of quality vehicles. Apparently USAA is more impressed with performance in the real world than the carefully controlled, deliberate crashes which determine the number of stars a vehicle will be awarded for a deliberate crash.
My sister had an 86 Caravan with a 4 cyl engine 3 speed AT and loved it...except for the lethargic performance. However, she lives at higher altitude (4400 feet elevation) which may have reduced the performance of the engine. The 2001 4 cyl probably has much more power than did the 4 cyl in 1986. They got it used with 11,000 miles and sold it with 170,000 miles and zero problems. The 3rd owner was still enjoying it the last I heard.
However, a Caravan or Voyager with 4 cyl, few options and $2000 cash rebate is an excellent value. A 2001 Odyssey LX at $24,340 MSRP offers many more features....but the $6000 or so dollars less for a Caravan indicates why DC sell so many base Caravan and Voyager.
BTW, we got a loaded 99 GC SE for $4900 off MSRP. At $22,590 our GC SE is a terrific vehicle. By comparison, discounts on Caravan were not very much in March 1999 so the small price difference swayed us to the loaded GC SE.
Any Other feedback from current (Or prospective) 2001 Caravan/Voyager oweners with the 2.4L 4-cyl engine?
Regarding the expiring rebate ... don't sweat the deadline. You can count on the incentive being extended, or even sweetened. Recent press articles indicate that slow minivan sales continued through May, so additional incentives are expected.
Don't forget that there is a $500 published factory-to-dealer incentive on these minivans, and there also seem to be unpublished factory-to-dealer incentives as well.
Side question: Anyone know the info on the 136,000 van recall previously posted, I tried the link and it was not longer a top article......
As I understand the recall, it impacts non-remote-powered side doors only. The article I read in the NY Times indicated that this impacts roughly 1/3 of the Chrylser minivans.
Currently own 4cyl, 3spd auto Acclaim and Shadow convert with no problems. Also 93 V6 Voyager, smoking a little and one tranny failure at 60K.
If you like the DC van, get the extended warranty, period. I was told when I bought my 91 Grand Voyager 3.3L that the transmission problems were fixed. In spite of careful maintenance with only Mopar 7176 fluid, the transmission went out at 58k. Chrysler paid for it because of the 7/70 warranty. They put in a Mopar rebuilt unit, along with a new tranny computer (mounted on the firewall). I was told the rebuilt unit had all the latest updates. It has about 72k miles on it and has given no trouble at all so far.
There is a fair chance that I won't have any trouble with this transmission, and there is a fair chance that the newest transmissions are better, but we are talking about a BIG expenditure here, and the Chrysler vans are no longer the only players in the minivan market.
I will be buying a new minivan within the next 6-8 months. I will carefully look at what Chrysler is offering. But, they are in an uphill battle to win my business again, all things considered. It's not just the transmission, either. Ring job done at about 58K (7/70 warranty), a/c compressor at about 112K (not too out of the ordinary, but the price for the "variable displacement" compressor is enormous; aren't parts for domestics supposed to be less expensive?), Mopar struts don't last (replaced with Monroe, much much better), welds on the front door are breaking, oil leaks onto driveway, even after it's been "fixed" once already, inner tie rods worn out, starter replaced at about 65k (7/70 did NOT cover it), sliding door cannot be adjusted to be flush when closed (since new), tailgate lift struts mounting bolts broke, dropping the tailgate (recalled), fuel rail sprayed gas all over the top of the engine at about 95k (new part is "updated," but Chrysler refused to pay for replacement), serpentine belt tensioner broke, throwing the belt off and disabling power steering, paint peeled off (Chrysler paid for repainting panels one at a time, as they became "affected"), it's developing a knock in the engine (oil and filter changed like clockwork), windshield wiper mechanism bushings broke (but the wipers still worked), numerous other little things not worth mentioning.
On the plus side, it still has the original alternator, power steering pump and rack, water pump, catalytic converter; it uses no oil (after ring job, anyway); I get a lot of miles out of tires (50K) and brake pads/shoes (40K front, 100K back; caught the tie rods before they could eat up the tires), interior upolstery has held up remarkably well, except for a few loose screws here and there, only replaced the battery twice. It always starts easily, and it has never left my wife stranded, even when the transmission failed (limp-home mode in 2nd gear).
Starting in MY1998, reports are better. Consumer Reports gives the DC long wheelbase minivans an "average reliability" starting that year. JD Powers initial quality rating improved dramatically. Edmunds reliability rating for 1998 was much higher than previous (the rating is not available yet for later model years). And the same former Dodge mechanic says that warranty tranmission repairs dropped to about 1% starting in 1998.
Of course, if you're still in the 1% this is bad news (I'm sure that by writing all these "transmissions have improved" posts I'm jinxing my '01 T&C). And yes, dkrab is right that there is no guarantee the quality improvement will persist when the 98 and later MY minivans start hitting the range of 50k+ miles. And there are still a host of other problems with these minivans. But, the weight of evidence is that tranny quality improved in '98.
If you insist on a larger interior than a Sienna then for 1997-8 you have to choose between the Chrysler/Plymouth/Dodge, Ford Windstar, and GMC/Chevy Astro. Not exactly star reliability performers. Of these I'd go with a '98 Chrysler and cross my fingers.
My wife wanted a new van so we got another Grand Caravan in the Sport model. We got it with the following options: inferno red, side air bags, power right door, and the customer package 25H. This baby drives beautifully. Alot smoother than the 92.
I got a great deal on it also. I shopped around quite a bit and used the Internet for my research. I went to Douglas County Dodge in Georgia. They advertised the AC sport in the paper with the 25H package for $20999, includes the $2000 rebate. This price applied to all their sports. If there was a sport with additional options on the lot, they just added the invoice pricing of the option to that price. They also had the ES for 27,999, includes the $2000 rebate.
They only catch was they had a $399 documentation fee. I ended up paying $1400 under invoice without the $2000 rebate. We took the 3.9% financing. The total vehicle cost $23836 plus Tax, tag, and title.
We shopped around quite a bit. Honda's are suppose to be more reliable but the exterior/ interior colors are blah. The interior "plushness" reminds me of a cheap 4 cyl car. There was significantly more wind and engine noise.
We almost got the Winstar, but became spooked by their problems with the 3.8L head gaskets. It also had significantly more wind and engine noise.
The Sienna and Quest appeared to be much smaller and did not drive as nice.
The Gm vans had lousy crash test results.
So here we are back in a Dodge. Here's to another 10 years of smooth sailing. fingers crossed, knock on wood. But to tell you the truth, if you read these boards all Manufacturer's Minivans have writeups about poor maintenance. Most people who are happy with their vehicles, don't post. So you end up with are the few people who had a problem with their car. All cars are susceptable to failure, they are mechanical.
Leather, heated seats,alarm,roof rack,package 29s,
power liftgate,4 disc changer,
Leather, heated seats,alarm,roof rack,package 29s,
power liftgate,4 disc changer
This was the invoice price. ES's are hard to come by with all the options one may want. You can place an order for a 2002 but will lose out on the rebate or finance.
Here's what we got
Patriot Blue w/Taupe interior (leather)
29 U package
side air bags
heated seats
4 disc cd changer
roof rack
power liftgate
touring suspension
3.8 liter motor
The only thing I really wanted, but didn't get (my wife didn't care) was the load leveling suspension. We don't often carry heavy loads (the occasional Home Depot run), so it probably doesn't matter much.
We wanted the tow package, but couldn't find one with all the other options we wanted. Its not likely we'll need to tow during the time we'll own the van anyway.
We were looking at a couple of LTDs, but I couldn't justify the extra $1800 or so for a couple of extras that would have been nice (memoiry seats), but not really necessary. I know getting the LTD would have gotten me my load leveling suspension, but $1800 is still $1800.
Price out the door (including the rebate) without taxes, tags and doc fees (they wouldn't budge) was $29240. Any opinions on how we did (I can accept some bad news)
Thanks.
mrl859 "Chrysler Town and Country LX/LXi/Limited" May 23, 2001 4:35pm
mrl859 "Chrysler Town and Country LX/LXi/Limited" May 23, 2001 11:25pm
bean9 "Chrysler Town and Country LX/LXi/Limited" May 25, 2001 11:54am
mrl859 "Chrysler Town and Country LX/LXi/Limited" May 25, 2001 6:10pm
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
We picked up our new I&I yesterday, and driving back from my wife's soccer game discovered that they really don't hold a bottle to well (unless the bottle's diameter is big enough to push the holding arms all the way out). We tried pushing the holder in slightly, but that caused the bottle to bump against the DC changer buttons (causing discs to eject).
I wound up having to hold a soda bottle in my hands to prevent spills - not very convenient.
2. Roof racks now whistle.
3. Complete Overhead Console with Trip Computer available in only the most expensive Grand Caravan ES or T&C LXi and Limited.
It will be difficult to retain loyal, satisfied owners of DC minivans if the list keeps growing. It is hard enough to keep DC owners coming back without the "Magic Seat" to convert a comfortable passenger vehicle into a cargo van.
However, most DC owners know that they have so many more nice comfort items than any competitor that DC will continue to dominate the minivan market.
This may not be the best holder in the business, and yes you can't get to the CD changer without removing drinks, but it does hold the drinks in place, unlike the third row cup holders.
Can you tell me the difference between the Voyager & Caravan, G Caravan & Town & Country?
This is what I mean:
Similarly equiped, a Voyager and Caravan cost exactly the same (got this from carsdirect.com). I know that the structure underneath is the same. And, that the artwork around the vehicles is different (grills, etc. are different and you could pick based on your artistic tastes). But, if given the chance to buy same price, same equipped Chrysler or Dodge (I know that Dodge is Chrysler) which one is better? Or, perhaps this is easier to answer (I've noted that those "which is better" questions are never really answered); but, perhaps this is easier to answer: what are the benefits/detriments of each one?
I am not talking comparing Caravan to Grand, or T&C compared to Voyager; or even T&C ES compared to GC SE. But, again, basically exactly-the-same equipped vehicles from Dodge or Chrysler, and what the differences are?
Perhaps you'll say there are none (I know there are none beneath the skin). But, there must be some difference because I see that people are buying one or the other.
So, please forgive me for this being so long, and my going to such lengths in asking this question. Its just that I've never seen anyone answer it. But, it seems that there is.
Thank you in advance.
You know that I'm new.
Dsoiam
I actually think the Voyager and Town & Country have more attractive grilles than Caravan and Grand Caravan. We bought a Grand Caravan as the Dodge dealer is just over 1 mile from our home and had an excellent sale in March 1999. The dealership has provided outstanding service in the 27 months we have owned ours.
For me, the quality of the salespersons, the service department, and the proximity of the dealership to my home are the criteria to use in deciding whether to get a Dodge or Chrysler.
Well, of course the T&C does have options at the very high end that you can't get on a GC ES, meant only to bolster it's "image" as a luxury van.
There probably are cosmetic issues that differ, like seat fabric designs and all that. Any single element may not matter, but when totaled the sum of them may.
The holders may not be as good as in prior years, but they work a whole bunch better than on our Isuzy Rodeo (which I just 'inherited' whwn we got the T&C).
Luxury features available on the T&C Ltd that the others don't have.
For '01 the Voyager is only short wheelbase (no T&C with the shorter wheelbase anymore).
You can pretty much equip the vans the same when comparing trim to trim across the name plates. For most people the decision probably boils down to styling preference or closest dealerwith good service.
I like the dodge grill better than chrysler. The Voyager looks a little better than T&C to me. But, since I live near where a Dodge dealer and a Chrysler dealer are right across the street from one another, it's really who's cheaper.
The Chrysler dealer is 5 star (I'm not altogether sure if that means much) and the Dodge is not. That may be something that I'll consider.
Thanks to you who commented. I'll go back to watching.
Thanks,
Dsoiam
The T&C LX = Dodge GC sport, except the T&C has rear disc brakes. I didn't go into much detail with the higher ones, but the T&C LXi = GC ES (at least very close)
No T&C equivalent to short-wheelbase vans, or base GC. No GC equivalent to T&C Limited.