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Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager

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Comments

  • fly6869fly6869 Posts: 17
    Finally got 2001 T&C EX back from the dealer. In the last two weeks my van with just over 1500 miles on it has had the power steering rack replaced, timing chain cover and oil pan gasket replaced, front end realigned, and the roof rack has also been replaced. Anyone else having any such problems? Hopefully it has been fixed for good..
  • erucehteruceht Posts: 26
    We have a T&C Limited FWD and it has the 2100 ram noise/vibration and so did all the vans we test drove.
  • pgs_28pgs_28 Posts: 34
    Eruceht

    Welcome to the club. I have been talking about it for 4 months now. I too have a 2001 T&C FWD which has the same problem. Also my transmission clunks moving into 2nd gear depending on how fast I accelerate. I knew the vibration/resonance was NOT just an AWD problem. Have you talked to the dealer?
  • erucehteruceht Posts: 26
    pgs 28

    Yes we took it to the dealer. They drove it the first time and said there was no problem so my wife took it back and drove it for them at the right speed and rpm and they told her the tires were out of balance. I knew about the problem when we bought the van and its not really a big deal for us because we never drive at that speed but I do hope Chrysler finds a fix. I had the roof rack bars replaced to fix the wind noise but outside of that the van has been great.
  • bev15bev15 Posts: 3
    I have a 2001 Voyager LX.

    I am about to have the power steering rack replaced like FLY6869 just mentioned. I wonder if this is a common problem? Hmmmm.

    Does anyone else have a problem with the engine reving when you are sitting in idle? I had a 96 voyager and never had this problem. The engine will go from a normal idle, to a louder reving sound. The dealer said this is normal. Is this what someone was talking about with the fans?

    Thanks for your help,
    Bev
  • bholiobholio Posts: 21
    I have a 2001 T&C with 3.3L. I just happened to take note yesterday how stable the tach needle is at idle. The needle looks like it was painted on the tach. It doesn't move at all (until I drive away that is). No revving, roughness or anything. The engine is so quiet I might not notice any revving. I'll try to keep track.

    What's with all of the steering rack replacements I'm seeing? Are you seeing leaks? Does the van not turn?
  • Dealer told me today that Chrysler raised the cash back from $1500 to $2000.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    And what amazes me is that they did NOT negotiate a decent price. Most smart shoppers look for the discounts, rebates, incentives before they get a Grand Caravan. We did NOT have to shop very hard to get a $4900 discount off MSRP for our 1999 GC SE with MSRP $27,490. Edmunds should have received a better discount on a vehicle costing $8000 more.
    Reading the article indicates to me that DC would have been smarter to go back 50 years and use the old "folding into the floor" 3rd seat (now called Magic Seat by Honda) than to offer comfort features such as Triple Zone Temperature Control, Quality Stereo, Trip Computer, etc.
    Why are so many reviewers overwhelmed by the "Magic Seat" while ignoring the increased noise levels inherent with that design?
  • bholiobholio Posts: 21
    Chrysler should be trying to milk the fact that the magic seat does not split, like the optional Chrysler split bench does. That is the real (only?) disadvantage of the magic seat. People with >3 passengers would be best served by the split bench over the magic seat because it allows 3 rear passengers and some additional cargo capability. Of course, the lower priced Chryslers do not have the split bench which is probably why Chrysler has not taken this approach.

    Whining about noise sounds like sour grapes to me. Personally, I'd prefer the magic seat in my (very quiet) T&C LX, extra noise and all. I agree with the reviewers that Chrysler should have done the same type of seat, even if it impacted some of the other features in the van.

    I have the non-split bench. I purchased my T&C over the Ody based on price, availability and convenience of dealer's location and my perception that both were of equal reliability. The Magic seat was a definate Plus (a very strong plus) for the Honda.

    Another major plus for the Ody (which was the one which almost got me to buy it) was the fact that there are 2 choices. LX and EX. LX was barely in my price range and EX was not. There are something like 20 Chryslers in all(all DC vans, not just T&C). Each with options and packages. It took me weeks to figure them all out.

    It's not surprising that reviewers don't take the time to really figure out what's what and then go back and hardball negotiate. I'm glad Chrysler gets banged for this in reviews. Hopefully the new EX indicates that they are listening.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    With a million units installed, the cost per unit was probably VERY small in 1999. The start up costs had been absorbed so why did DC take if off the 2000 GC SE? Eliminating nice features is one way to alienate DC owners like myself.
    Why did DC put the cheap rub strip on the 2001 GC Sport that is similar to the one of the bottom of the line base 2000 Caravan?
    Why did DC cheapen the entire Dodge line one step? (SE became base, Sport became former SE, LE was eliminated).
    Personally I feel DC wasted money on the last 2 re-designs as the seats in my daughter's 1988 Voyager were more comfortable than my 1999 GC SE. The 1988 also had more comfortable place to rest the feet of driver and front passenger. I prefer the less severe slope of windshield as it is VERY difficult to clean the inside of it. With the flip-flop wipers, the windshield is not cleaned as well by the wipers as in pre 1996.
    Frankly, I was disappointed in the comfort of the seats, leg and foot room of our 1999 GC once it became obvious it was NOT as comfortable as earlier DC minivans I had ridden in. The Sienna is much more comfortable in any seat than our GC. I feel DC would have been smarter to save the millions on the 2001 re-design, made minor improvements on the 1996-2000 to include the Magic Seat, and kept the prices lower.
    Why not copy good features of Honda? Until Honda and Toyota made their minivan more like the original Chrysler minivans, they sold very few.
    The new EX has some nice features but we do NOT want the power sliding door, power liftgate, powered center console, 4 wheel disc brakes. Just offer the 3.8L, Trip Computer, more comfortable pre-1996 seats in the SE model as options.
  • pgs_28pgs_28 Posts: 34
    Hi Again

    I am having a problem with my steering. It is making a rubbing noise when I turn the wheel and plus I hear little clunks or clicks when turning and sometimes just when I'm braking over going over small bumps. Is this typical of a rack and pinion problem? One other comment.. I have a 2001 T&C Ltd. I noticed that where the ceiling upholestry meets the front window that there is not rubber border or anthing. It just seems to rub up agains the window. This seems odd to me as when you clean the inside of the front window you almost always get close enough to rub the material. In time it is sure to leave a mark. Is this the finish on other T&Cs? The reason I ask is that I had a flip down TV installed and I know they had to take apart a lot of the interior.

    Thx
  • I am basically lazy and dont want to read back through all of this so will give my question. I have a 99 GCS and it has been great. not one problem.. the only complaint I have is the headlights. I saw where the new ones are supposed to be better. Are they?
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    They are very adequate. 10K miles on GC ES. Just by looking at them, you'll see that they are significantly larger. Since reviewers beat Chrysler up on this for '96-'00 models, they made them much brighter.

    --rolfe.
  • I noticed the review of the 01 DC GC stated "and Dodge offers an impressive warranty package,".
    Am I missing something here? Other than the 3yr/36,000 mile what are they referring too?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Good question. I bet he saw the optional 100K/five-year warranty and thought it was a reprise of the old 7/70 warranty that came standard at one time.

    If you have a question, comment or feedback for the Editorial Staff, please visit the Letters to the Editors page.

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • becwarbecwar Posts: 9
    pgs_28,

    I have a similar problem with my steering. If you turn it slowly, there's a squeeking noise coming from somewhere underneath the van. I took it in today and they said they think it's the outer control arms. They said the joints are factory sealed and if the seal is bad, there's no lubricant and that causes the steering to squeek. They have to order the parts, 2 weeks, we'll know once that's all done.
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295
    Wonder how long it will take before someone thinks lower control arm bolts.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    The recall affects vehicles delivered after March 22...

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • parkisparkis Posts: 1
    My husband and I are in the market for a new minivan and have narrowed it down to the 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan or the 2001 Chrysler Town & Country (not sure exactly which trim levels yet). These two vans seem identical! How do you choose?
  • bholiobholio Posts: 21
    The only reason I went with a T&C over GC was that I figured that the T&C would have better resale/trade in value in the event I got a lemon and wanted to get rid of it in a year or 2.

    If you research enough, you will find that the GC sport is almost identical to the T&C LX, the GC ES is almost identical to the T&C LXI. The T&C limited and GC SE are unique.

    The only difference I found between the GC sport and T&C LX was the T&C has rear disk brakes & the GC has drums.

    Try pricing the resale value of a 2000 GC and 2000 T&C and see which one comes out better.

    If you go to www.chrysler.com and www.4adodge.com, you can configure each vehicle and really see exactly what's in them at a greater level of detail than you can at Edmunds or other places. Of course, those sites don't show much useful pricing info.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    I agree with bholio. We have a 99 GC SE because the Dodge dealer is just one mile from our home, had a great deal in March 1999, and the service is outstanding.
    However, I personally think the Town & Country is the more attractive of the 2.
  • mddamusmddamus Posts: 4
    Hey, I wondered the same thing when I started looking, did lots of research and came out with the T&C on top. Around here, the T&C is the same or slightly less expensive than the DC. I figure it will have better resale value, too. I was only comparing AWD models, but did find a few differences between supposedly identical models (based on literature, not an actual physical check of the vehicles).Some of these pertained to the presence of a power slider door on the driver's side as std or an option, the wipers (intermittent versus speed-sensitive intermittent), loading levelling (std on one, optional on the other), and presence or absence of front stabilizer bars (in the Chrysler, supposedly not in the DC if the literature I read is correct). It seems like there were a few others too.

    Confirmed with the dealer today that the rebate is now $2000 and it is good thru 7/3/01. Good luck.
  • geoduckgeoduck Posts: 52
    We test drove both before deciding on a T&C LXi AWD. The T&C had more amenities and overall was a bit more refined (especially the dashboard gauge graphics.) The equivalent GC also seemed slightly noisier. We also just found the Chrysler grilles to be more attractive.
    The slightly extra cost wasn't a factor when spread over the 10 years that we expect to own the vehicle. Likewise, the alleged additional resale value didn't much matter to us either.
    I only wish we were able to get the 17-inch wheels like on the GC.
  • bev15bev15 Posts: 3
    I have been having the same type of steering problems as post #930. My steering squeaks/grinds when I turn slowly. I have had it in 2 times. The first time, they replaced some parts on the steering wheel (don't remember what it was called). It didn't work at all.
    Now they are going to replace the power steering rack. I'll let you know if that works.

    Bev
  • enetheneth Posts: 285
    DaimlerChrysler joins GM in warning owners not to drive their brand-new vehicles. 2001 model minivans made from late March through late April, 2001 are being recalled:


    http://www.detnews.com/2001/autos/0104/28/-217367.htm

  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    Interesting to read how many DC can make in such a short time. We had a recall on our 1967 Impala and based on our experience, a recall of a potentially serious defect has more noise than substance. Sad that the greed and $$$$ signs of sue-hapy Americans has tainted our culture.
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295
    Honda has yet to make as many minivans period, as DC makes in one year, and that's if you include every Odyssey ever made since 1995.

    Minivan Grand Total
    Honda: 350,000
    DC: 9,000,000
  • drew_drew_ Posts: 3,382
    http://www.speedvision.com/pub/articles/automotive/01CNews/010428a.html

    FWIW, Chrysler is supposed to be more upscale than Dodge (which, in turn, is supposed to be sportier).


    Drew
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • enetheneth Posts: 285
    Scanner,

    Considering that Honda just got into the mainstream-minivan market less than three years ago, your statement doesn't mean much.

    Is it supposed to be a measure of expertise for Daimler relative to Honda? If so, consider the opposite - Honda sells more cars in two model lines (Civic and Accord) than DaimlerChrysler sells Dodge and Chrysler cars (not trucks - cars) put together. And in that market, they still have fewer units recalled than DaimlerChrysler does.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    Ford and Chevrolet came out with Aerostar and Astro in 1985 shortly after Chrysler's resounding success with the Caravan. Although Astro is still being produced, NO company has had the sales success of Chrysler! Volkswagen built a minivan but it was so pathetically underpowered and lacked virtually every comfort item that VW minivan sales in the USA are abysmal. Volkswagen reliability was in the toilet.
    American automobile genius caught the Japanese manufacturers empty handed. The original Japanese attempts at minivans were a sales disaster. The Japanese designed minivans did NOT sell well in the USA until they COPIED the size and some of the nice comfort items of the American built minivans.
    How many more years before Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Mitsubishi, etc. copy the ability to set the minivan driver and front passenger heated/air conditioned air temperature independently?
  • keygokeygo Posts: 38
    I picked up my new new van Friday. A couple of first impressions of my Town and County LXi AWD:

    The 3.8 is much quicken than the 3.3 I had in my 1992 AWD. I was very surprised.

    I am glad I put the leather in the interior. It is very slick. My dealer, I just realized, forgot to order the heat warmers. I will put in a call tomorrow to see if there is anything that can be done.

    I wish I had ordered the power lift gate. I think it is set up for the power and the non-power is not as good as my old one.

    The stereo is good. However, loading CDs in the 4 changer is awkward at best. You can't have anything in the cup holders.

    Get the removable counsel. Storage would be limited without it.

    The handling is wonderful compared to my old van. It still isn't my wife's Lexus but I sure have enjoyed driving it so far.

    I do hear a sound at 2100 rpms. It is bad so far but....

    I will touch base again with an update. Thanks to all of you whose posts helped me make my decision.
  • cgaydoscgaydos Posts: 116
    "American automobile genius caught the Japanese manufacturers empty handed. " -- carleton1

    Interesting spin. Actually, what happened was that Chrysler took a FWD station wagon (Reliant/Aries K) and modified it to be a minivan. Subsequently, all their competitors modified their existing RWD cargo vans into minivans. The RWD, truck-based minivans offered inferior performance to the FWD, car-based Chrysler minivans (unless towing was required), so Chrysler just flat-out dominated the market for the first 10 years. The only exception was the GM FWD plastic-bodied dustbuster minivans introduced in '89, which failed due to overall poor design.

    Finally, in '93 Nissan/Ford came out with the FWD, car-based Quest/Villager. Very popular at first, but small size and lack of safety features hurt its sales. However every minivan introduced since then (except the re-introduced Eurovan) has been built on an FWD car platform.

    Craig (owner of a '94 and '01 T&C)
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    And wasn't it a stroke of genius for Chrysler to make this simple modification into THE success story that makes the modern minivan available?
    I would actually prefer a rear wheel drive minivan with a pickup front end and the van from driver's seat rear ward. I liked the higher seating of our 91 Astro, the more powerful 4.3L V6, the larger fuel tank, the same interior space in a vehicle 2 feet less length, and the panel doors.
    However, the Dual Zone Temp (now 2001 Triple Zone improvement), Overhead console with compass/outside temp/Trip Computer, outstanding HVAC are big advantages of our Grand Caravan.
    I hope other manufacturer's copy Chrysler's PT Cruiser and produce more comfortable sedans like the PT Cruiser. ECHO is a step in the right direction but with an interior too cheap.
  • bholiobholio Posts: 21
    I think the reason the first generation Ody failed is simply because it did not have sliding van doors. It had normal car doors in the rear. To me, that's not a van, it's a station wagon, no matter how tall you make the vehicle.

    I drove an Astro (rental) for a week in 1998. Good power, really, really nice 3 piece rear door that I wish my T&C had. However, the way the engine compartment extended into the drivers compartment was awful. As a passenger, I had to pick which leg I extended as there was not enough room for both of my feet (with shoes on) in the passenger footwell.

    However it was this first minivan experience which made me realize that my next vehicle was going to be a minivan.

    My next van rental was a Windstar in 1999. Very, very nice.

    While the Astro is somewhat unsuccessful as a passenger van, notice how GM has locked up the commercial minivan market. Although I have driven a 1st generation caravan cargo van long ago, I haven't seen a Chrysler minivan in years.

    As for the Japanese, they are doing what they have always done. They start out with vehicles that are too small and bare-bones, and then grow them in size and features over time until they hit on what the US market wants. When the minivan first came out in 1984, they were still focused in getting the cars right. Now, look at the Ody, Sienna and MPV.

    By the late 80's early 90's they had the cars figured out to the point they were mainstrean and started with van. The Mazda MPV, that funny looking Toyota and eventually the 1st gen Honda. Toyota is doing the same thing right now with large pickup trucks. First the T100 and now the Tundra.
  • ingramwd2ingramwd2 Posts: 15
    Took delivery of our new '01 T&C LTD FWD four days ago. It was a factory order and arrived at the dealer's lot about 3 weeks ago.

    This vehicle is just fabulous even when compared to any '96-'00 T&C model! What an improvement from from our '98 GC LE FWD!!! Also considered GC ES 29S pacakge but found stretching a bit for T&C is fully worth the extra money.

    We also got the Mopar Video System. Very happy with it and feel it was a wise decision as well, albeit pricey. Paid CAD 2,093 (approx. USD 1,350) + tax including insatllation.

    I too am convinced 2100 rpm resonance noise is not exclusive to AWD models. I must admit though, had I not read about it on this forum, I wouldn't have noticed it.

    A good thing about Canadian models is that you do not have to pay for some options like heated front seats, Inferno Red paint and 5-year/100,000 km (60,000 mile) power train warranty. We also get day-time running lights, which DC have switched to head lamps as opposed to park/signal lights on '96-'00 modles - a nice idea.

    Once again, thanks very much for all the info and advice.
  • pgs_28pgs_28 Posts: 34
    ingramwd2

    Where did you buy your T&C and what did you pay?

    Paul
  • ingramwd2ingramwd2 Posts: 15
    Ours is a 36-month lease, so did not get any rebates. Dealer is Davidson Chrysler in Toronto (a Five Star Dealership).

    Total Price (before taxes): $46,453 (29X Pkg, Trailer Tow, 4-disc CD, Freight, A/C Tax - $44,360 + Mopar Video - $2,093).

    Lease rate: 3.8% Reidual: 45% Only $600 of video system is residualized.

    I personally think the price should be at least $700 less. CarCostCanada.com quoted $42,669 as the dealer cost price. Dealer denied this saying it is $43,389. (before $350 ad participation fee). I beleive $720 difference is their hold back, which they never admit.

    When & where did you buy/lease yours and what did you pay? Just curious...
  • cgaydoscgaydos Posts: 116
    "And wasn't it a stroke of genius for Chrysler to make this simple modification into THE success story that makes the modern minivan available?" - carleton1

    What's amazing is that no other manufacturer, American, Japanese, or European, copied the FWD formula for nearly 10 years. Let's face it, except for the configuration the first generation (84-95) Chrysler minivans were nothing special. However, the competitor's auto execs consistently delegated the creation of their own minivans to their Truck/Van divisions, which explains the Aerostar, Astro/Safari, Toyota LE van and Previa, Mazda MPV (1st generation), Eurovan, and that funny thing from Mitsubishi that lasted maybe 2 weeks in the US. And except for the Windstar and 2nd generation Odyssey, when the Chrysler competitors did start building car-based FWD minivans they built them too small (i.e. Both generations of GM dustbuster minivans, both generations of Quest/Villager, 1st generation Odyssey, Sienna, 2nd generation MPV).

    I mean, it's not that hard to figure out what makes a high-sales minivan: Large interior, great crash test results, reasonable reliability (Windstar need not apply), drives like a car (FWD), easily configurable interior. The Sienna actually sells well despite the small size, but Toyota will be the first to tell you that size is the only thing that kept it from dominating like the Odyssey does. Yet, although it is easy to understand what makes a high-sales minivan, only 3 large, FWD minivans are available: Windstar, Odyssey, and Dodge/Chrysler. Amazing.
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    Funny that Toyota downsized from Previa to Sienna. My friend liked the size of his Previa better than his 98 Sienna LE but says the Sienna is vastly superior to the Previa in every other way.
    I wish each company would copy and include the advantages of their competitor. It really benefitted Honda when they copied the size and some of the nice Chrysler featurers. Why didn't Honda include Dual (or Triple) Zone Temp, Quality stereo, Overhead console with compass/outside temp/Trip Computer? I personally think DC should have copied Honda in using the folding 3rd seat that was used in American station wagons for decades.
  • cgaydoscgaydos Posts: 116
    "Funny that Toyota downsized from Previa to Sienna."

    Remember the Previa was RWD and based on a cargo van that is not available in the states. The Sienna is FWD and based on the Camry. I don't think they actively downsized, I speculate that they just designed the best minivan they could, but underestimated the importance of size to their customers. (DC did the same thing in '96 ... the 2nd generation minivans had worse crash test results than the first generation ones, costing many sales. DC didn't recognize the importance of the crash test results, so it wasn't a priority in the minivan redesign.) No doubt the next Sienna is already in testing and addresses the major reason that people did NOT buy it ... size.

    BTW, I hesitated to buy my '01 T&C due to the mediocre crash test results of the '96-'00 DC minivans. BUT, after various research and comparing what I could see of the body structures of the '00 and '01, I decided to take the risk. I'm betting that DC recognized that the crash test results cost them more sales than any other single factor, and that they'll have addressed that weakness in spades in this version.

    "I wish each company would copy and include the advantages of their competitor." As far as Honda not including the DC luxury items like tri-zone AC, my personal speculation is that Honda plans an Acura version of the Odyssey, but not until after the new Odyssey plant is on-line. So, they have to save some luxury features for the most expensive line. As far as DC not having the fold-down seat, I'm sure the marketing accountants at DC projected number of sales lost due to lack of the magic seat, compared to number of sales (and profits) gained due to AWD, and voted for AWD. Given the number of AWD minivans gathering dust on lots, they may have made the wrong choice. Personally, though, I'll take the sliding third seat over the magic seat, although ideal would be sliding magic seat.

    Finally, note that some cool ideas get copied immediately (i.e. dual A/C, dual sliding doors) and others languish around for years before becoming popular (i.e. power sliding door, introduced on '89 dustbuster minivans but not copied until '97 on Sienna; magic seats introduced on '95 Odysseys but not copied until '00 MPV and dustbusters).
  • enetheneth Posts: 285
    The size of the Sienna may be constrained by the assembly line is configured - Siennas come down esxactly the same assembly line as Camry sedans, which is the only assembly line you'll see in which that is the case. All the other vans are made on dedicated assembly lines with no sedans interspersed with them. That's partly because no one has been able to duplicate Toyota's efficient production system.

    Unfortunately, what Toyota did is hedge its bets - if the Sienna hadn't proven popular, it could easily gear up to produce more Camry sedans. It's a zero-sum game - if production of one goes up, the other goes down.

    Both Toyota and Honda have clearly stolen sales from Chrysler - in minivans. However, neither has enough production capacity - just yet - to seriously challenge DaimlerChrysler. I suspect that within a couple of years, that will change - and that Chrysler will feel a squeeze at the low end of the market from the new Kia Sedona. Having dropped Plymouth, it is vulnerable at the lower price end of the spectrum.
  • bholiobholio Posts: 21
    Chrysler's dropping of the Plymouth has has not caused the base model of the Voyager or Caravan to go away.

    You can still buy a base Voyager (Chrysler instead of Plymouth) or Caravan with the 4cyl engine in the $16-17K range. The Grand Voyager is gone, but the base Grand Caravan still exists.
  • enetheneth Posts: 285
    However, the buying public associates the Chrysler name with the high end (in the U.S.; overseas, exported Neons, etc. are badged as Chryslers so the story is different).

    Removing the Plymouth lineup did weaken the low end for DaimlerChrysler - Dodge hasn't picked up all the Plymouth Neon sales, nor will Dodge and Chrysler pick up all the minivan sales from Plymouth.

    Kia will be very aggressive with the new Sedona minivan - on price, and though the company has the same reputation for poor quality that Chrysler has, it offers a far better warranty on its new vehicles.

    DaimlerChrysler is the company that stands to lose the most from Hyundai/Kia's entry into the minivan market.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    cgaydos, I disagree on what would be a better configuration for the DC vans. I have a 96 Grand ES and have moved the second row captains chairs to the rearmost position, it's like a limo back there, but at the expense of third seat legroom. I would like to see the third seat have an extra set of mountings to move it further back when carring only passengers, and the ability to fold and tumble forward behind the second row when only 4 passengers and luggage is needed. It then becomes a problem with keeping the floor mountings of the seat out of the way of cargo, and keeping the seat comfortable for passengers. Has anyone seen the third folding seat in the new GM's that thing is only about 1 to 2 inches thick and as hard as a wooden bench!
  • pgs_28pgs_28 Posts: 34
    Wow... small world. I too bought from Davidson Chrysler.... it was my 2nd purchase from there from a salesman named Myserak or Mike.

    I got the LTD plus towing package from 4 CD changer. I traded in my 1998 Chyrsler Sport and paid a total difference of $28,500 tax in... drive away price. The van was on there lot last week advertised for 19,500 but they hadn't had a nibble on it for over 3 months. I thought a fair price would have been in the $17 to $18K range. So I figure my actual cost would have been somewhere around $46K taxes included.

    What do you think of their service. Oh and what color did you buy? Have you talked to them about the 2100 rpm noise problem? What other problems have you noticed. BTW.. I live in the Yonge/Sheppard area.
  • cgaydoscgaydos Posts: 116
    hayneldan, I can understand why you might want that configuration if you're carrying six large passengers. My issue is 4 children and luggage. I'm willing to sacrifice unneeded leg room for more cargo space. But I could see that someone might want to shift the 3rd row bench BACK when no cargo space is needed.
  • dfsykesdfsykes Posts: 11
    Do the second row captains chairs in the T&C or the split rear bench in the T&C Lxi have the ability to fold and tumble forward to provide more cargo space without actually removing them? If so do they lock in that position.
  • shelbydog25shelbydog25 Posts: 18
    My 2nd row captain chairs in my 01 GC Sport do fold forward but don't "tumble". I assume these are same in a T&C
  • dfsykesdfsykes Posts: 11
    Thanks Scanner. That was a great link. It looks like only the split bench can fold and tumble. Do you know if they lock in that position? I have three kids so I think I will keep one of the sides of the back bench in the fold and tumble position to allow for more cargo room plus an extra seat when I need it, I think that this would only work if they lock though. Thanks.
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