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Ed
I sure would. After 4 months I still think the T&C AWD is a well designed and refined vehicle.
Next question.
The answer to your question depends on a whole matrix of individual criteria and requirements. We were approaching this from owning a sweet little SUV and then suddenly having two kids and tons of their stuff. Our "lifestyle" still includes cross-country skiing in the mountains and camping off Forest Service roads in warmer weather.
A Suburban was too pricey and big for my wife; Minivans are just wonderfully configurable for families and hauling stuff. The AWD choices were the T&C or the GMC/Chevy old-style. No contest there.
So to answer your question, of course the AWD functionality is worth the cost. Especially when more non-AWD choices abound. And in the T&C, the AWD works really well. I test drove one on icy windy roads on a mountain pass, and then later tried to skid out and such on packed snow at an empty ski resort overflow parking lot. Very stable and handled inclines just fine--owning a 4wd SUV, we were very impressed.
ed12 - I bought the AWD model because I do a lot of skiing in the Northwest (Washington and Central Oregon). I needed a vehicle that I considered "all weather." I need to be able to get bewteen Seattle and Central Oregon regardless of current snow conditions over whichever pass I choose.
I'll qualify my remarks by saying that I think good snow tires are critical. Mine are Michelin Arctic Alpins, which I highly recommend.
I'm absolutely amazed at both the acceleration (credit to tires and AWD) and braking (credit to tires and ABS) on packed snow and ice. The van has far exceeded my expectations in these and many other areas.
Because of the mountains in these 2 states, there are strict "chain" laws. With the combination of AWD and the new generation of snow tires, I'm exempt!
My previous experience in the same driving environment was a 1990 FWD Grand Caravan (with conventional snow tires). There is no comparison, in my opinion. Accerating with the '90, I could always break traction even with the lower torque. With the '01 it's difficult to do -- it just takes off!
On the downside, I pay in terms of gas mileage with the heavy vehicle and AWD. Stop and go around town is in the 14.5 mpg range; some freeway driving in the mix gets me to about 16. Exclusive freeway driving (including a mountain pass) gets me about 21. I'm particularly disappointed in the 14.5 figure.
--rolfe.
Some other words of wisdom from CU.
January 2001 issue: "The Honda Odyssey again earned the top position in our Ratings."
April 2001 issue: " The powertrains [Chrysler Town & Country, that is] lack polish."
October 1999 issue (on hidden warranties, in which the DC transmission was the "poster problem"): "A web search revealed that the Caravan's transmission woes were widespread and that Chrysler knew about them" and "if I did not know there was a long history of transmission problems with this vehicle, then they [the dealer and DC] may have been able to persuade me into just paying for the entire repair."
My wife is not the strongest person and would like to hear your comments about your what techniques works best in different situation like when you are carrying a baby in one arm.
Wish that I had bought the dual sliding door power option but this is only avail. on the lxi.
Thanks.
You Odyssey owners are too rude and act like jerks whenever someone else posts in your beloved Odyssey forums...so you will not see me there again...unless it is to report some of the many Odyssey Problems that I read about in Ody Forums.
Let me clarify! Odyssey is the BEST BUY at MSRP....BUT, and read this carefully, DC buyers do NOT pay MSRP. The Ody LX has most of the items I want as standard (front and rear A/C & Heater w/ separate fan in rear(altho no separate temp control for driver and front passenger), deep tinted glass, PS,PDL (altho not speed actuated as in DC), seating for 7 in reasonable comfort, and a large powerful V6 as standard. (DC pisses me off by not offering the 3.8L which is better than Ody 3.5 with more power without expensive premium gas) and as stated before, DC took off the beloved Trip Computer with Compass and Outside Temperature on all but ES.
When will Honda offer a decent stereo in the Odyssey? When will Honda offer Triple-Zone Temperature control? When will Honda offer a Trip Computer? When will Honda offer power sliding doors that move faster and can be opened quickly and easily manually? When will Honda offer a transmission without the dreaded "Clunk"? When will Honda offer the Odyssey without trim pieces that fly off mysteriously? When will Honda offer some of the many nice DC comfort features not available on the "best for hauling cargo" Odyssey?
Isn't it interesting how CR has a double standard? 1999 Odyssey is not reliable yet CR still lists it as their first choice?
However, I would NOT buy a 2001 model again until this resonance issue is fixed.
We have long, cold winters. With the low termperatures in Minnesota, the noise is loud enough as to be unacceptable... by the way, this belief is held by all members of the family since they spend a lot more time than I do in the van :-). It's not just me! I've also driven enough other AWDs off my dealer's lot to know that my van isn't one of a kind. While the noise volume can vary a little - when you take off on a crisp 10 degree day, they're loud.
We looked at vans throughout the 2000 model year. They didn't have this problem. I get the distinct feeling from the Chrysler reps that this has become a big enough issue that it will be addressed for 2002.
So - my opinion - I'd buy again but ONLY after there has been a change that fixes or minimizes the noise.
However, I went to Chrysler's site and did a build-your-own on a T&C Limited. Oddly enough there was a no-charge seating option to have the quad-command buckets in the middle (nothing new there) AND split 50-50 in the 3rd row on the Limited. Since I've found this information to be reasonably accurate in the past it gives one hope this may come true. Could DC be listening to the consumer requests?!
Also- I thought I had read far earlier in this forum that owners of the Limited had try to take the 3rd row bench and place it into the middle position without success. I and the salesman did accomplish this without much hassle. Thus configuring the van into a 5-person vehicle with loads of cargo room.
Just thougth I'd pass these two items along. Happy driving everyone.
-- BKS
Here is the follow-up of the vibration-fan and 2100 rpm issues from my dealer.
It appears that the vans have different fan combinations, i.e. two big, vs a big and a small one etc. That has to do with engine type 3.8, 3.3.Also the fans have been completely redesigned for the 2001 models. They are supposed to have also different speeds-“high” when the vehicle is not moving and “lower” when the van is in motion. So in my case I have TWO BIG fans, since I have AWD 3.8 L and also the towing package. The dealer contacted Chrysler and the answer is that when the vehicle is stationary a very slight vibration may be felt when the fans are at maximum speed. That is presumed NORMAL.
They seem to be still working on the 2100 rpm issue. No answers there as of yet.
I have put in my vehicle VIN and everything so we shall see. I will keep bugging them on a weekly basis re 2100rpm.
In the meantime I made already 9500 miles.
I have also noticed that after a few hours drive the GEAR SHIFTS become somewhat more JERKY/noticeable/ especially between 1st,and 2nd-3rd.No problem with 3rd to 4th . I have the AUTOSTICK feature so I do not know if that has something to do with it, but I doubt it. When the engine is cold and within the whole first hour of driving gear upshifts and downshifts are pleasant and smooth.
Any ideas?
Thanks for the follow up report. There has been some "noise" on this forum lately, and it's refreshing to see an informative post.
--rolfe.
"Honda's Odyssey is an All-Star three years running not because it packs more cubbyholes or cup holders or key-fob-operated frippery than its competitors. In a segment of the market where the comfortable, reliable, fuss-free conveyance of multiple humans and their movables is a vehicle's whole raison-d'etre, the Odyssey distinguishes itself, simply enough, by being more comfortable, more reliable, and more fuss-free than the rest. Moreover, it's awfully good to drive."
Bottom-line: a refined powertrain and outstanding ride and handling are more important than DC's great innovation--grocery-bag hooks.
I've had Hondas where I think the seats are great. However Honda went on the cheap with the Odyssey seats. Even Consumer Reports (for those who live and die on their word) acknowledge they could use more support. Maybe for your keaster the Honda seats are acceptable.
Again - more comfortable in what ways? I certainly will be less comfortable in a van where my passenger cannot set their own temperature. My wife likes to cook herself - I don't particulary enjoy breaking a sweat while driving.
Would I buy an Odyssey. Perhaps; if my trips were never longer than 45 minutes. Different strokes for different folks. The sooner you figure that out the better.
-- BKS
We have not purchased yet. Still waiting to see how the EX/LXI pricing shakes out later this year and also to see if they will introduce the 3.5 engine later this year as mentioned in Consumer Reports for April.
Paid $23030 including $1000 rebate, plus tax, tags,
Thats almost $4700 off list.
I found a very small bad bonding job on the right rear of the car. This is my second car where I have bad bonding in the passenger rear side near the bumper and corner piece that looks loke a rectangle.
Overall, impressed with CD player and transmission smoothness and excellent comfort.
Interior looks much better than Odyessey.
We started out our minivan search by looking at MPVs. I think Mazda erred by not extending 4WD into the new redesign of the MPV, because everything else about the vehicle is pretty attractive, except that is was a tad too small for us. I thought the interior layout was clever and the roll down center windows are great--probably the biggest shortcoming on most minivans including our new T&C LXi.
Anyway, I think it will come down to basic space needs for you. Can the Voyager hold one more body or more gear and is that important? We too have two kids, and find that their stuff and their friends and their stuff can take up an unlimited amount of space.
Both vehicles have similar reliability, though check the new Consumers Reports for their data charts.
How's your coolant level, and how high does your temperature gauge read?
Each minivan has advantages. For us the GC SE was THE right choice in March 1999. After reading in the many forums, reading Motor Trend, Consumer Reports, Edmunds, Edmunds Town Hall, etc. I would still select the 99 GC SE at the price we paid as First Choice for us
It will be interesting to see how the Taffeta White 2001 Odyssey EX will fill the needs of my sister and brother in law (who live in the 3rd house east of us but across a major road and in a different US Postal Service Zip Code area). I hope it has zero problems and serves them as flawlessly as has our Bright White 1999 Grand Caravan SE served us. 99 GC SE comfort makes it easy to drive the 700 miles one way in one day to Disneyland with 4 adults and 2 grandchildren.
Check it out, like magic the ratcheting cupholders are back.
http://www.mtdemocrat.com/display/inn_2000_auto/W1130_A.txt
Steve
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(and I still think my front seats are great--go figure...)
I spoke with the dealer today again. He is a nice fellow, seems to be trying his best.
He is calling Chrysler again on my behalf. However he said that out of the three concerns that I have/i.e the 2100rpm issue, the fan vibration felt when the vehicle is stationary and the occasional JERKY upshifts when warm/ he is most concerned about the transmission. If we have to prioritize I will agree, but ALL issues will need to be addressed at some point.
I also have a 98 GC SE model that is now 56 000 mls. It has not had any problems sofar but we are keeping our fingers crossed. It is somewhat noisier but there is no fan vibration no 2100 rpm issue and no jerky upshifts. Of course it is not an AWD has no Autostick and is the 3.3 I engine.
Thank you for your co-operation
Drew
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Drew, Thanks for the informative post.
Please note that Chrysler said that it would be difficult to package the AWD with the hideaway 3rd row, but not impossible. With the driveshaft running to the rear (for the AWD) and with the 3rd row seat well, I'm not sure where the spare tire would go except for inside the vehicle. Clearly this not a good choice for a minivan. Doesn't seem like marketing fluff to me.
Drew
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these days ?
My dealer told me today that Chrysler will be sending out a KIT for repair that is supposed to address the 2100 rpm vibration. That should start in 2-3 weeks.
Let us see what happens.
Hi... I couldn't help but notice your post. This is definitely good news. Can you tell me what this fix consists of and what the attribute the problem to? Any more information would be appreciated including a phone number I could call for clarification.
Thanks
Don't get me wrong, I am stoked to get a new Town & Country and am just waiting to figure this whole thing out.
They come out with the LX, LXI, Limited and then months later the EX to stop the bleeding from Honda's pesty van.
They offer tons of cash back on all but the EX and now are finally addressing the AWD 2100 RPM problem.
Then they promote that a 3.5L 240HP engine will be coming later this year, when, true?
I am waiting this storm out to see what gives at model year end. What will the 2002 have different and if nothing what will the left over 2001's go for when I buy.
Good Luck - no matter what it is the best van out there.
Of course you could buy another minivan, pay MSRP, and based on CR reliability it will have a worse reliability record than does T&C.
Let us know the details of this fix so our dealers can address the issue!
Thanks.
ps : to Tomc12: just had the awd van in (again) 2 feet unplowed drifted snow, uphill, and not even a slip. The van is awesome; go for it.
If it were me, I would wait until there is some real resolution to this problem. I talked to my dealer today, and he did not sound hopeful about a fix after talking to 'headquarters'. He promised to get me in touch with the district manager to discuss the vibration problem. So far, Chrysler has not informed me of a fix or even if there will be one.
Still waiting....
As you may recall, I drive a '94 Grand Voyager LE AWD. It currently only has 93K+ kilometres (about 58K miles) on the odometer and has never been our of the province or out of the country (yes, it hasn't even been down to Seattle!); this van is our first domestic vehicle, BTW, my family has only owned Japanese and German (MB) vehicles prior to this.
Even though I drive sensibly and not punish the vehicle, I do have to admit that it has had its share of problems. Nonetheless, it hasn't been too too bad, especially after reading and hearing so many horror stories. Interestingly, the first 2+ years of ownership were completely troublefree, just as your has been thus far. Just the regular oil changes and services. No problems whatsoever! However towards the 3rd year we experienced a few problems, and then one major one. The torque converter failed and it had to be towed to the dealership. Next (several months later) it was the starter motor that crapped out and wouldn't stop cranking even with the key removed from the ignition! It was a tense minute as I jumped out of the van, dug around for a wrench in the garage to remove the battery clip. Again, it had to be towed from my home garage to the dealership. I've had the ringing noise (from the tensioner/pulley) problem, and still hear it occasionally actually. The head gasket and more recently, the oil pan gasket has also been replaced once each, because of a slow oil leak. Same with the rear differential seal (remember its AWD :-))...they topped it up and then replaced it a week later under the powertrain extended warranty.
The most recent problem was that some kind of switch controlling the brake lights was defective, and the brake lamps refused to go off. This meant that I had to disconnect the battery to get them to shut off. I'm still on my first transmission though (I hope it lasts!; the unit is okay, but not particularly refined), and everything else seems to be okay for now. Thank goodness for the extended warranty!
My dealership (Coquitlam Chrysler) has been just excellent though. The service advisors and service manager are just a pleasure to deal with (even though, I've had to visit them enough to be on a first name basis with them), and just about bend over backwards to please the customers.
One of my parents' friends has worked for Chrysler for the last 20 over years (he handles the warranty claims from all of the dealerships) and even he admits that these vans have had their problems. The good news is that they're improving. For example, I was told that their failure rate for the trannies was something like 15% a few years ago...it's down to something like 2% (or below) nowadays.
Good luck!
Drew
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