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Comments

  • He guys, We went out and test drove a loaded LXI on Tuesday night. What a great van. I drive a Lexus es300 for work and I was pleased to have another gentle ride when compared to the Explorer we will be getting rid of.
    Our deal is that we are in no hurry to buy. We have a 99 Explorer Eddie Bauer that my wife wants to ditch because of her trouble getting in and out and strapping in a 1 year old with one just on the way. So, what she wants - I get her.
    I have been locking at the increasing info on the ex. It obviously does not come with leather, but I have a friend at a chrysler dealer and know he would give me cost plus install to put leather in an EX if I approached him as he is an old college buddy. The LXI has some things that you cant get on the Ex but both without leather and similar options - even including Chryslers $1,500 cash back are still over $3,000 apart when you ad the roof rack, Side air, Power lift gate, etc. to the LXI. If I opt for Champaign with taupe I can get them in the same color, etc.

    My wifes parents retired this year and are in florida until May with one car up here. We could sell our explorer any time and if it goes early - she could drive her moms car until we find the right deal or just have a free car until then.

    So, If i can get my buddy to put the leather in - yes i know it is not factory, but dealer - and still have it stickered about $2,000 less than the LXI ( this includes $1,500 off rebate and no rebate on the Ex) why would I not get an EX.

    I would appreciate your feedback. We dont need a limited or AWD.
  • pgs_28pgs_28 Posts: 34
    Hi Gang

    I have been doing the DisneyWorld gig for the last few weeks but I'm back and totally Disney'd OUT!! I was wondering whether anyone had made any new progress on the noise at 2100 RPM issue?
    Thx
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    "The new Grand Caravan is clear proof that Chrysler got blindsided by the Odyssey and Mazda MPV, and by the time the company can roll a better minivan onto showroom floors, buyers will also be choosing from new models made by Ford, GM, Nissan and Toyota. Whoopsee."

    2001 Dodge Grand Caravan

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • Hi there...

    What's shakin'??? HA!! :o) Couldn't resist geoduck! Where were you when the earthquake hit? I was unfortunately just being sucked into the automatic carwash in Issaquah with both my 4yr and 1yr old with me! I backed out very quickly and got in the open area. I have to admit... I don't when I've ever been so scared in my life. I can't believe we all got off so easily... considering it was almost a 7.0 quake! phew!

    Anyway... back to the topic... I am not surprised by aps5's info. on the volume capacity of the minivan vs. the suburban.. however as geoduck points out, the Suburban gives that open area behind the 3rd row of seats making storage of a stroller, groceries, bags, etc... much better. The best bet on a Suburban would have to be the 2nd row theater (bucket) seats... which gives you an aisle opening back to the 3rd row... This makes it much more like the minivan.

    We have a quote from a local dealer right now for a 2001 LXI AWD in Patriot Blue for 31,800 after rebate (not including tax/licensing, etc..). I have another offer from Oregon for the same LXI... for 29,995 after rebate. The only difference is that the one in Oregon doesn't have heated seats. I emailed the dealer here locally and explained the cost difference and wondered if the heated seats were really worth 2 grand? :o) Still waiting to hear back after emailing last night.

    After just reading Edmund's long term report on the DGC ES... I'm wondering if I'm even dealing on the right van? I have to admit... it is a lot of money to spend for a minivan! And what about those dang crash tests? Any word on when this T&C/DC is going to be tested? Geeze.. they are taking too long for this Seattlite!

    I agree with Edmunds regarding inclusion of an entertainment system in the upgraded DC ES's and the T&C LXI's and LTD's... Olds Silhouttes, Mazda MPV's all offer entertainment systems... The price of the Silhoutte Premier (leather, tv, the works) was 31,000 when I last priced it. The crash ratings are what steered me away from the Olds however. I've never even looked at a Mazda! Honda doesn't offer a split back bench, so that ruled them out for us too. hmm...

    Curious about what 2002 will offer. I'm imagining entertainment systems in all the upper end vans, auto liftgates on all the competition to Chrysler/Dodge, etc... Sure wish I was able to know NOW what all the new ones will have. It's just like buying a computer... within months you're already outdated and outdone! :o(

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Maria
  • pgs_28pgs_28 Posts: 34
    Hi Gang

    I have been doing the DisneyWorld gig for the last few weeks but I'm back and totally Disney'd OUT!! I was wondering whether anyone had made any new progress on the noise at 2100 RPM issue?
    Thx
  • jmwatjmwat Posts: 5
    My wife and I are looking to lease a 2001 T&C LXI soon (sticker of ~$34K). We're looking at a 36-42 month lease. I've read all the posts on what the "out the door" price ought to be and what DC is offering on residuals but can anyone share what kind of deals they're getting on similar lease arrangements.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    Its a shame Steve our host doesn't read the Honda Odyssey problems forum, Its no tulip either! Geoduck or some other poster mentioned the seating problem with two kids and having enough storage for trips. While the Honda and Mazda Magic seat allows a quick change from 7 to 4 passenger seating, the storage space is limited to the area behind the third seat or in front of the third seat passengers with the center row removed, since the third row seat is not removable. The DC vans on the other hand allow for 5 passenger seating by removing the center buckets or 2 passenger seat, and moving the three passenger bench up to the second row, allowing all the storage behind the passengers and maybe enough room for a dog. This is in my opionion easier to load kids in the DC van, without crawling all the way back to the third row to buckle them in (over the stored items) in the Honda and Mazda. You pay your money and make your choice.
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    If you have a flat tire in a Odyssey, where does the full size flat go???? Answer, in the plastic bag supplied by Honda, inside the car, or on the roof rack, as it will NOT fit in the hole the donut came out of!!! You pay your money and make your choice!!!
  • Good point about the DGC option with the seats. I immediately went and grabbed my Grand Caravan pamphlet to see if they did show the seating arrangement with the bench in the 2nd row... and indeed they did. However, this is only if you get the cloth interior. If you get the leather... it does still show that you can get the 50/50 split bench into the 2nd row.. and use the space behind for storage. My issue would be seeing if you can actually get 3 car seats in the 50/50 split bench... I seriously doubt it. I would have to say that if Chrysler would have made it so that their 3rd row bench in the LTD was interchangeable with their 2nd row buckets... we would have it made!

    I will have buyer's remorse if they come out with this option next year! That 50/50 split bench is really uncomfortable and most likely not big enough to hold 2 car seats and a booster seat. (I'll sure give it a try before buying though!) :o)

    My dad goes hunting every year in N. Dakota with my brother and 2 friends. They bring 2 dogs in 2 kennels and somehow get all of them and their gear in a Dodge Grand Caravan. He's the one who first pointed me in this direction. They didn't need to sit 5 though.... just 4. I guess either my family planning needs to be revised or Dodge/Chrysler needs to listen to my plea for help! MAKE ME A VAN THAT CARRIES 3 IN THE MIDDLE ROW... (with leather!) HAVE LOTS OF STORAGE BEHIND THE 2nd ROW! ALSO... THROW IN A TV/VCR flip down unit! :o) (One can always ask!)

    My search continues!
    Maria

    PS. A full-time nanny with with the van would be helpful too! :o) (She'd have to lay on the floor though!)
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    I was just cutting and pasting from the story (notice the "quotes"?), so I don't have any bone to pick here. fwiw, my brother has a '00 GC that's a very nice ride, thank you, and I *do* read the Ody problems forums. My tulips are only about up about 2 inches so far though:-)

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    The 2001 Town and Country limited has leather seats in the third row that are not split.
  • h20guyh20guy Posts: 64
    it was you make your choice THEN pay your money. ;)
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295
    "Lease payments of $900 per month"???

    Yo Edmunds, YOU GOT RIPPED OFF!

    At $900 per month, the average person who knows nothing about car buying could have purchased that same van outright in 36 months with $0 down using Chryslers 0.9% financing.
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295
    Dodge Caravan is Canada's best selling vehicle.


    http://www.southam.com/windsorstar/wheels/001219/758878.html

  • I'm very familiar with the LTD's 3rd row bench.. That bench is not able to move to the 2nd row however... I've had 3 dealers try to do it for me and it does not fit in the 2nd row.

    We really like the LTD's.. but the inflexiblity of the seating is why we've chosen to focus on the LXI with the 50/50 split 3rd row bench. It IS able to be moved to the 2nd row, unlike the LTD's bench.

    H20 guy... Your point being????? I guess that one went over my head!???

    Maria
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295
    Edmunds' asked "what happens in a rear-end crash if the front seatbacks fail and land in your kid's lap?"

    Answer: A lawsuit is what happens.

    How about utilizing a modern isofix child seat, or opting for a built-in child seat?
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295
    I ask: what happens in a side impact crash if the side airbag deploys while your elbow is resting out the window?

    Answer: A lawsuit is what happens.

    Keep you arm rested on the padded armrest, that's what they are for.
  • geoduckgeoduck Posts: 52
    Scanner, I know what you mean. . .
    The Edmunds review is downright bizarre. It reeks of the editor's displaced anger about somebody in purchasing doing a lousy job in negotiating a lease price. Indeed, the bulk of the story seemed to be a poorly disguised plea to accounting to provide them with more budget.
    I think the review was less about the Dodge and more about something else.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Well, at least the van will get passed around among various staffers, so maybe the next go-round will be more "balanced". Could be that Christian ate some of Dana's biscuits at the Roadhouse Cafe just before he wrote the initial review....

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
  • geoduckgeoduck Posts: 52
    Hi Maria:
    I think being in a car wash during a 6.8 earthquake approaches nightmare territory. I am glad you managed to back out. I was on the third story of a newer office building north of Seattle giving the pitch of my career to a room full of executives. Halfway through we got to know eachother much better under the tables. The shaking and rumbling was very intense. 40 seconds is enough time for you to freakout thinking about first your loved ones, and then seriously considering whether your life is going to end in a crummy conference room at work. Yuck.

    Anyway, I did get to finish my pitch an hour later (everyone needed some sense of closure, regardless of content), and it got approved. And you know, I have this bond with everyone there now—come the full moon I’ll probably get promoted!

    Back to cars, the T&C split rear seats only holds our two toddler seats. Between them is a little room for their stuff.

    I don’t place any value on the entertainment systems in this or any car. (by the way, the Olds is junque; the Mazda clever but quite small) In a few years our kids will each have small networkable handheld media/computing devices that will surpass the trip value of those pricey TVs. The T&Cs have plenty of power plugs in the back to accommodate those devices.
  • Hey... I don't know... I think I'd be more scared being in an upper story of any building! I have to admit though... being at a gas station in the carwash wasn't my idea of fun!

    I had all the same thoughts that you did... I was staring at my 2 kids in the back of the car and well... pretty much freaking out! I thought of my husband, parents, wondered if this WAS the BIG ONE that they've threatened for so long! I'm so thankful and humbled by it all...really.

    We will be watching the King 5 Special tonight on Earthquake preparedness for sure! We're taping it to review with our 4 year old.

    Thanks for the input on the 50/50 split bench and carseats. I kinda doubted that I could get three carseats across that... However, I'll still bring in my seats and try to make it work.

    I'm easily impressed by the flip down tv's, etc... My husband has always made fun of how whenever I look at new cars, rather than turning on the car and driving it... I first turn on the stereo system to see how it sounds! HA! :o) I think the TV would be a life saver for me when I take those long trips to my parents and grandpa's house. My 4 year old does really well usually.. but the 1 year old would love to watch his Baby Mozart tape on the video screen... and it would surely cut down on the amount of screaming he does! :o)

    Anyway... glad you and your family are all ok...

    On a final note... I would have to agree with much of scanner's sentiments regarding the review by Edmund's of the DGC... Some good points he made... use the arm rests! WHat a crack up! :o)

    Maria
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    My point is, each car has it's advantages and disadvantages, and each owner has their priorities for features. Since I will be the only one paying for my vehicle I should choose the one that meets my needs. Honda has some features that appeal to some buyers, as does the DC vans. My point about the seats on the DC van was the seating is more flexible than the Honda, Not easier to configure and store. I have a 96 DC and have removed the rear seat maybe three times a year. The magic seat would not have been a biggie feature for me.I also have a fullsized spare which except for checking the air has never been touched. If you have ever been on a trip and tried to drive any distance on one of those donuts is not a fun experience.
  • dfsykesdfsykes Posts: 11
    Brians5, I want to make sure I understand what price you paid for the Limited AWD you mentioned in post #646. You said you got the out the door price of $33,111, using Edmunds the invoice on your car is $35,376. That means that before the $1,000 rebate that you used the price was $34,111 which is $1,265 below invoice. I have been unable to get a price below invoice before using the rebate. How long did it take to get that price, any advice on how to get a lower price. Babyangels, it looks like the price on your loaded LXi AWD was also well below invoice. How are you doing it? Thanks to anybody who can help me understand how to get a lower price, or maybe invoice is as low as I can get right now where I live. I live in the Northeast. Is anybody else paying below invoice before using their rebates in the northeast or anywhere else?
  • Hi there...

    As far as how I got the pricing on the both the LTD and LXI AWD's I was looking at... All I did was fax a letter to all the dealers within my area in Washington State and around my old home in Oregon. I got back a bunch of emails (I only gave my email to respond to) and 4 of them had great pricing compared to what I'd seen/heard. The local dealer I'm probably going to buy from quoted me an invoice of 35,864 for his loaded LTD AWD... he automatically came off invoice to 34,500... then gave me another 1500.00 off for the rebate.... bringing the total to 33,000. He quoted me an invoice of 34,317 for a loaded LXI AWD and came off that to 33,300. He then took off the 1500.00 rebate for a total of 31,800. I noticed today that he has the LXI AWD's quoted at 31,750 in today's paper...

    Apparently, according to my relative who is a Chrysler Dealership owner... Chrysler is in the midst of their "Stair Step" program where each dealer is trying to meet a certain quota of car sales... they get 1,000.00 for every car they sell once they meet that quota. IF you find a dealer who has met that quota... they have another 1,000.00 to play with in the sales price. My relative couldn't believe the 31,800 price on the LXI AWD I found here.. he looked up the invoice with the serial # I had and said that this dealer isn't making anything on it.. ( I kinda doubt that.. however I don't care if they don't make anything either! :o)

    Anyway.. I was also dealing with a dealership in Oregon who quoted me 32,486 for the same loaded LTD AWD and 29,995 for a loaded LXI AWD just minus the heated seats option.. These are both 29U packages with side air bags, 4 disc CD changer, Tow package, leather... the works...

    I would really like the 29,995 price in Oregon... but want the heated seats for those cold mornings! :o)

    Good luck... hopefully I was helpful???

    Maria
  • dfsykesdfsykes Posts: 11
    Maria, your answer was very helpful. I emailed everyone in my area and the best so far is 32,500 for the same loaded LXi. This is only 700 worse than your Washington price of 31,800 but nowhere near your Oregon price of 29,995. Are these quotes "out the door" prices? Are you sure they are not going to try and add on zone advertising charges later? Your info on the "stair step" program was very interesting, do you know how long it runs for? I am trying to special order my car from the factory since no local cars have what I want, I wonder if this is preventing me from getting a better price? The sales on these minivans are doing so poorly I can't believe I can't get down to invoice before using the rebates. I am also waiting for the crash test results but if I get a good price I will buy right now.
  • Sounds like you're on your way!

    I wouldn't expect to find too many LXI AWD's with all the goodies at that 29,995 price. This particular dealer in Oregon does a high volume of sales and deals in almost every other car mfctr that exists... Honda, Ford, VW, etc.. etc.. I'm trying to get my local guy to meet the Oregon price... but so far no luck. He doesn't seem to be willing to budge off of the 31,800 price. According to my relative/car dealership owner... the guy shouldn't budge... I'm getting a killer deal (in his words, not mine).

    I was only quoted extra fees for licensing and tax... no advertising fees, etc... My fax was very specific in that I wanted only the specific vehicle color, specs, etc... that I listed and I wanted their best price... period! I seem to have found a couple people willing to do business this way which is much easier for me as a mother of 2 little ones with no time to play "games" at the dealerships with 2 kids!

    As far as the Stair Step program Chrysler has... I don't know all the details.. sorry.

    Don't expect to get a GREAT price on a minivan that you are going to special order... you will only get those Great deals on vans that have been sitting around or are already on their lots. After 90 days on the lot, the dealers have to start shelling out money from their own pockets for up-keep, advertising, gas, etc... You will find dealers more willing to deal on those cars that are over 90 days on the lots. The ones under that 90 day mark are still being paid for (advertising, gas, upkeep) by Chrysler.

    I have to admit... I did do some shopping for an SUV today! (Wrong board.. I know!) I am SERIOUSLY torn since our recent 7.0ish earthquake here in Seattle. I told my husband that I'd really rather be in my big SUV trying to maneuver around town than in my smaller T&C. It is REALLY the only reason I even started to consider the Suburban again.. I had really ruled it out this past week... Aghh... but then the earth moved! :o) (LITERALLY!) I am probably over reacting.. but have to admit that the quake DID really scare me into a WHOLE NEW WAY OF THINKING! I'm currently working on disaster kits, getting furniture, water heater, etc.. bolted down, etc... I was so unprepared!

    Good luck with your purchase... let me know how it goes! Do some looking on autotrader.com for your minivan too... just type in your make/model/year and then your zipcode.. you can search within 200 miles or for any distance... IT's a good way to comparison shop! www.carmax.com is another place I looked that someone mentioned previously. We don't have a carmax near us though.. They have the BEST prices I've seen (LA, Houston, ATlanta, and one more location)

    Good luck!
    Maria
  • carleton1carleton1 Posts: 560
    As it has some options many of us do not want.Why not just offer the desirable 3.8L V6 on ALL Caravan, Grand Caravan, Voyager and T&C? Also, why be so cheap and not have the Trip Computer on all minivans with Rear A/C and Rear Heater?
    We love our loaded 99 GC SE with Dual Zone, Trip Computer, Infinity sound system, etc. but I would now wait for the Odyssey LX or get a Sienna LE in 2001 since DC does not offer the amount of power as Ody or Sienna unless a higher priced DC minivan is purchased.
  • brians5brians5 Posts: 23
    The price I paid, was indeed $33,111. Period. No other added costs of any kind. It was equipped as I mentioned in post #646.

    How I negotiated my deal was I "special ordered" it just as you are going to do. In all but a few rare exceptions, I disagree with Maria about buying one off the lot.

    The problem with buying one off of the lot, is it is an allocated one for the dealer. (Usually.) This means the dealer has to pay flooring. Additionally, the dealer is only allocated "X" number of cars of a specific type a year. Therefore, they must make every ounce of profit they can out of those cars. They are less likely to cut down to the bone on those cars. They can't afford to because of those extra costs Maria mentioned, and the allocation.

    Enter the special order. When you order a van from the factory, it does NOT come out of the dealer's allocation. Therefore, ANY profit the dealer makes is gravy. Additionally, by ordering a van, the dealership actually increases the amount of vans they are allocated the following year.

    The next step is trying to figure out the cost you are going to pay. I did this by ordering Consumer Reports price report on the van. Most of the time, this report agrees with Edmunds; however, I have found on occasion through the years some factory to dealer incentives etc. that were not listed on Edmunds that were on the Consumer Reports report. It does cost $12.00 though.

    I added up all of the invoice prices for the options I wanted on the T&C AWD LTD. You have to add up the retail cost as well. You figure out the holdback based on the retail cost. Do not add in shipping to the retail cost. Shipping is not used to calculate holdback. If memory serves, the holdback is 3% of the MSRP. I subtracted the holdback from the invoice. That figure is the amount the dealer is actually into the car. I then added back into that figure $500 for dealer profit. An amount I considered pretty good for paper pushing.

    What Maria says is true about the "stair step" program. The dealer also will make money "in the back door" if you finance the car through Chrysler. Chrysler financial "kicks back" to the dealer money when the customer finances with them. This amount of kickback money varies widely depending on model and interest rate.

    As far as I know, the only way to know exactly how much extra money the dealer will make from the "stair step" or the finance kickbacks is to have a snitch, mole, informant, stoolie, double-agent etc. working for you at the particular dealer you wish to buy from. I don't think any pricing service will know.

    The dealer I bought from (Kendall Dodge) in Cottage Grove Oregon was not a Five Star dealer and had not sold enough product to get extra "stair step" money.

    You must use the "allocation, invoice, and holdback" language with the dealer. When you let them know you know these concepts, it takes the wind out of their "sales" so to speak!! :-)

    Beware to add language into your purchase agreement that the customer (you) get any additional rebates that become available at the time of delivery.

    Side note: I'm not sure if they will allow you to special order a van with the current rebates factored in. You better check the fine print of the rebate offer directly from Chrysler.

    Also, add language into your purchase agreement that any dealer installed options you may elect to add at the time of delivery (MOPAR things) are to be added in at "parts department cost." Notice I said "parts department cost." One of the favorite things dealers will do, the $#%@$!!, is to tell you they are giving it to you at invoice. This is misleading.

    The parts department will charge the dealer an "invoice amount" for the MOPAR part. This amount is usually marked up 30% above what the parts department actually paid for it. This "invoice" price is usually just enough under retail price to make you think you are paying what the dealer paid. WRONG!! Make them provide you with real invoices from MOPAR/Chrysler to verify. Not invoices generated by the parts department. This is a game they play for in-house numbers, as well as making additional profit off of you.

    If you need further information let me know. It is confusing... that's why the dealers are so adroit at fleecing us uneducated consumers on a regular basis. BTW, fleecing rhymes with leasing.

    -Brian
  • Ok... this is just too funny...

    Ya know the great price on my maxed out LXI AWD and maxed out LTD's... guess where from??? You got it.. Kendall Dodge in Cottage Grove! What a small world. I live in Washington, but my parents still live in Eugene, OR. I visited Kendall Dodge and worked with a really nice guy, Ed... He has been the one emailing me the great 32,486 price on the LTD AWD in Steel Blue and the 29.995 on the LXI AWD in Patriot Blue. Both of these cars are the colors/options I was looking for... with the exception of the LXI not having the heated seats.

    As far as all the fine print, etc... I have to admit... I'm only a shopper still.. not a buyer. I do find it hard to believe that I would get such prices on a LXI or LTD that I special ordered. I may be wrong? At this point I don't need to order one anyhow, as my local dealer has the color/options all on the one LXI AWD that I like. If he didn't have it... then I'd be in your shoes! (If I don't hurry up and make up my mind... I still might be there in your shoes!)

    The thing that cracks me up about all this with your purchase is that I have about 1,000.00 less in my price than what you paid. The STeel Blue AWD LTD I drove there last month is the one that they are quoting me for as well... it even had the after market running boards.

    I have heard what you said about the dealers having more room to negotiate with new or "ordered" cars... as they still get their holdback and haven't had to use any of their own dealer money to keep up the car. In the case of the stair step program... they will also get 1,000.00 profit off the top if they've met their quota for the alloted time they have to do so.

    I guess for a young gal with really no clue about buying cars... I've learned a lot in a short amount of time. I think that my luck has been good so far in finding dealers willing to deal with me on a low-stress/no pressure basis. (I have enough of that with taking care of my 2 little ones!)

    I will take some of your info. Brian and use it when I get ready to sit down at the proverbial "table" and make the deal... whatever car/SUV/van it happens to be!

    By the way.. who did you deal with at Kendall?

    Maria
  • brians5brians5 Posts: 23
    Cheese and Crackers Maria!! Kendall Dodge huh??!!

    A small world indeed! What are the odds!! :-).

    I am suspicious though of the AWD Limited they quoted you the $32,486 price on.

    Did you ask if that was the "out the door price?" Is it a demo? From a Canadian dealer? I'm headed up to Eugene in the next couple of days, I'll have to take a look see.

    The salesman I dealt with was an internet contact at the Eugene Ford store. Wayne Phelps. I will not share my opinion of him here.

    If the van is legit, not a demo, no miles to speak of, and equipped with upgraded leather, tow package, quad-seating (full bench in the rear) heated seats, 4-cd indash, integrated booster seat, heated engine block, and running boards...AND the out the door price is $32,486 then I would run, not walk to sign that deal.

    later,
    Brian
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