My original 92, purchased new in late 91, has a manufacturing date of 09/91, as does the MY1992 I just bought in Tucson. The Tucson car's in service date was Nov. 91, about the same time I purchased ours.
Drove from Tucson to Seattle (via Fresno and Santa Cruz) with zero problems, got something between 25 and 26MPG.
New rear brake pads led to apparent Trac failures. Parking brake applied warning light was out as was speedo/tach needle ligting, replace entire speedo/tach assembly which led to airbag code 41. 6 oz. freon needed before leaving Tucson and replaced driver's side electric cooling fan for condensor. Now need new refrigerant pressure switch, compressor runs continuously and fans do not run, suction tube ices over to about 3/8" inch of rime ice in an hours A/C use.
Sent A/C control head away for new LCD. Didn't want actual control head out of my sight, so mounted dead LCD portion to 91 control head from wrecking yard and sent that away for repairs.
But some analysis done, climate control module certainly has some different acting aspects from my original 92.
No legal issues at all currently, just for my own satisfaction, mostly.
New shocks on order all around.
Installed 17x8 BBS-RX chrome wheels/tires (turanzas) from my 2000 GS300 since sold.
92 really was a damn good year for Lexus.
If I published Denso P/N and pin-out of private labelled microprocessor would anyone out there likely know how to do a "core-dump"?
Saw your remark about the long drive to a dealer to do a test drive...have you considered going north instead of south? Catena in Larchmont, NY or Lexus of Greenwich. Greenwich to Flushing, for instance, is 45-55 minutes depending on traffic, at least using the Hutch/Merritt. ljflx is right about service...both my Lexi were bought elsewhere (one from Catena Monmouth when I lived in northern NJ), but I've had no problem getting service from my local dealer. They want to do well in the service surveys from the corporate level.
I own a 2001 LS430 Ultra with 37k miles. I am seriously considering an extended warranty because I believe my car may have required more than the usual warranty repairs. I would appreciate comments on the Lexus extended warranty and comparisons with "aftermarket" extended warranties. I usually keep cars a long time. Thanks.
I have an 02 Custom Lux and purchased the "Platinum" warranty package. I'm thinking it cost around $2K and extended the coverage to 90K miles and/or 7 yrs. This warranty covers everything except normal wear and tear kinds of repairs. I went with the Lexus warranty because I didn't want to put up with any BS from an aftermarket service agreement. With the Lexus package, you can just drive in, no questions asked, get your car fixed and get a loaner car to keep you going. One question...what kind of repairs has your 01 Ultra needed? My experience, as well as from what I've read on this post, is that these cars have been relatively trouble free. Just curious.
whybuy1: I also purchased the Platinum warranty, it's good for 100k miles/7years. I paid$1800.00. I also keep my cars for a long time. I purchased the warranty for the same reasons stated by jbianco12 and wwest. My car(03 LS 430 Ultra) has been trouble free but down the road a few years-who knows! I was especially concerned with complexity of the Ultra, but now I have peace of mind that everything is covered. paulchiu:Congrats on your purchase. It is a great car and you are sure to get many compliments on the quality, quiteness and ride. I thoroughly enjoy mine and it is the first car I've owned where I actually look forward to driving whenever possible. Happy trails!!!! Ron
The things that have gone wrong on my 2001 LS430 Ultra are: 1. The gasket that seals the moonroof fell out on me as I opened the moonroof -- fixed 2. The trunk liner was loose somewhere and rattled against metal. -- fixed 3. Steering wheel groan. -- fixed but may be coming back. 4. Intermittent rattle in passenger window assembly -- not fixed but I couldn't reproduce it at the dealer. They must think I'm nuts. 5. Brake pedal does not fully release when car is cold. I have to pull it up the last 1/4 inch with my toe or the brake warning dings. -- parts replaced but not fixed. My dealer is 30 min. drive away and the car warms up by the time I get there and the brake releases then.
I admit that I would not worry about any of these if I were driving a Ford. I get the feeling after reading this board that there may be more things wrong with my car than average. The problems above, however minor, may be precursors to larger problems. At least that is what I hope Toyota assumes in the continuous improvement program.
I really like the car. I drove it from the San Francisco Bay area to Santa Barbara and back last weekend. My passengers and I enjoyed the ride.
I assume your Ultra was perfect when new? When did the troubles start? My 2001 S500 started to do many annoying things after a year. But was never that quiet to start.
Did you know that the toilet lids on the Boeing 777 have "shock absorbers" so they close gently and without "banging" down?
Result of a Japanese customer survey.
Your parking brake pedal has a shock absorber also, to eliminate that "thunk" on release. You can try learning to hold the release handle out just a tad longer or you can remove the shock absorber and live with the "thunk".
But like the ones that hold the hood open it will get looser with time.
It sounds like you may have had a few more problems than the rest of us. To give you some peace of mind, I also had the steering wheel groan. The dealer fixed it about 8 mos. ago and haven't had any further problems. The only other issue I had was with the automatic wipers...when I turned on the ignition on a hot day the wipers made one swipe for some reason. Again, I took it to the dealer and have had no further problems. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. If I was sitting in your drivers seat (I also keep cars for a long time) I think I'd go for the platinum coverage just in case. It's very expensive to fix electronic problems and the coverage could pay for itself after only one repair. Let us know what you end up doing.
wwest - re:"Shock absorbers" - so do the LS passenger assist handles. Maybe not the same technology but the same effect. They return slowly and don't thunk.
It just occurred to me that I will have to drive some 120 miles home in heavy highway traffic; through either the GW, the Holland, or the Lincoln Tunnels. I might even have to get it over 70 mph to safely flow with traffic. Not to mention perhaps some sudden uses of the virgin brake. Is this safe for a new car?
I have never had to do this in the past. Any mechanics here?
I noticed the toilet lids on the 777, but was more impressed with overhead bins which also close quietly. It drives me crazy having to listen to constant slamming as people try to close the bins on older planes.
Thankfully, the LS seems to be free of things that slam.
I've had no problems at all - not even the now infamous groan that has been a frequent discussion point on the board.
As for hitting 70mph - don't worry for a second. I hit 75+ right off the bat on my 2001 and never hesitated about speed in 95 or 98 on initial breakins back then. There is no way you can keep this car below 60mph on the road unless traffic dictates it. You don't feel any speed, it is virtually silent and it is as smooth as a jet in perfect air. I had the car over 100mph on the PA turnpike before I realized it and forced myself back to 80mph one time. It tends to happen so be greatful for cruise (actually laser cruise for you)
Again - best of luck and think about tinting all those windows if you can. I've only seen one in silver with the tinted windows but it was spectacular looking.
I have never tinted any windows. My older brother did that and over time, they crack and it does look ugly. Are you referring to tinting all the side windows? Doesn't the rear sliding shades already provide enough sun protection for the darling kids and primadonnas?
Paulchiu, Lemon is a little extreme. The gasket fell out after about 6 months, the trunk rattle after about 9 months, the steering wheel groan after 6 months, and the window rattle and brake release issue during the second year.
wwest, The dealer replaced the brake release shock absorber. The problem was slightly worse afterwards. I think the dealer adjusted it when the car was warm. When the car is cold (55F overnight) I have the option of holding the brake release for about 15 sec (more during ski trips) or pushing it with my toe. I consider 15 sec to be more than a tad, so I use my toe.
ron36330 and jbianco12, Thanks for the extended warranty guidance.
It is also important to use the breaks fairly lightly (no sudden stops) for the first 250 miles or so. This is to avoid overheating them and causing a glazing on the pads that will reduce their stopping power. Just do your best, though, and don't get into any accidents over it. Even if you get some glazing, it'll just be until the next time you replace the pads.
Everyone I speak to says this car is insanely unbeleivable. I feel that way about my Audi A8L. But I have an oppportunity to purchase this LS430. I need to know how it handles in the snow and rain. Does the rear wheel drive thing hurt this car? Thanks for allowing me to put this question out there...
If you want the quietest smoothest ride it usually is the stock tires that delivers it. But I haven't really detected any deterioration in ride quality in the Euro suspension with its sport handling tires. The latter easily outhandles a stock S-class. I don't know how the sport setting in the ultra compares to the euro suspension. But if you are going to ride with that setting on then go for the handling tires. They will change them for you and will only charge if the tires cost more.
The turanzas that wwest notes are known for the quietest and smoothest ride. That in conjunction with the soft ride mode on the LS will give you a dream ride. But I don't know what tires Lexus is offering now. I know when I renew I want those summer Turanzas.
Thanks for the info. Consumer Guide; the July edition, has a comment that the Euro suspension for the LS430 makes the ride "stiffer", and that the air suspension option makes the already smooth ride even smoother. The ride on both the base and ultra editions were rated 10/10. The euro suspension was rated 9/10. Quietness on all three editions were rated 10/10. Of course, the magazine rated my old car, the S500 10 and 10 for both items as well. Yeah! When the Benz is new, they certainly are 10's.
Does the euro suspension mean that the dealer is not merely changing just the tires?
Any of you opted for the chrome wheels at 1K extra on your Ultra's?
Well, I just took my '03 LS to the dealer. They diagnosed a blown front right door speaker.
Previous disappointments include:
Tires replaced due to flatspotting (fixed) RF and LR tires mounted in wrong directions for unidirectional tread (swapped) Sticking parking brake pedal (fixed) Rattle from instrument cowl (fixed) Rattles from centre stack (fixed) Steering wheel cocked to the left (fixed)
Now the blown speaker, and still has rattles from right of dashboard.
The dealer has been excellent, but the car itself is hardly the epitomy of quality construction everybody hails it be, at least from my experience.
Maybe things will improve after all these little issues are resolved, I hope.
Now it has about 6600 carefully driven miles on it. It was after all my dream car, but is turning into a disappointment.
The tires problem was present when new. The steering wheel and the rattles followed in short order.
I agree it has been totally reliable since it has never failed to take me where I have wanted to go. But who would want to spend about $65K on a car and drive around with wobbly tires, a cocked steering wheel, rattles, and crappy sound from a Mark Levinson system?
I would think my expectations were realistic, and I had sufficient desire and faith to pay MSRP for this car.
The original Dunlops were replaced by Michelins. I felt the problem when I took it out on the highway the first time. The service guy told me they had lots of problems with the Dunlops for a fair period of time. Then why continue to use them as OEM tires? I am willing to overlook the wrongly mounted snow tires as a simple mistake, but had I spun out or worse and found out that the tires may have contributed, you bet I would consider talking to a lawyer.
The cocked steering wheel and rattles are just poor assemblymanship, not to be expected in this price range, by any manufacturer. For example, what was rattling in the center stack was a black piece of plastic that covers the two motors that move the air vents for the climate control system.
Why advertise the world famed Mark Levinson stereo, when the speakers are just plain not up to par with power handling? And no, I do not listen to bass-heavy music all day. This happened with Best of Fleetwood Mac and Ray Corniff CDs, with the bass setting two notches below maximum.
In fairness, the drivetrain is smooth and powerful, but this flagship sedan hardly makes the case, at least for me, that Lexus is head and shoulders above other manufacturers. It may be better in certain characteristics, but the Lexus badge has not ensured a good quality car in my case.
As I said before, the dealer is a delight, but I'd rather not have to see a problem, make an appointment, take it in, leave it for a diagnosis, get a time for having it fixed, take it back to be fixed, and then pick it up. Even when done politely and promptly, why should one have to do this multiple times over the first six months of ownership?
The euro is a separate suspension (thus a separate car - it usally is only equipped with the ML and Nav) from the base LS and the ultra with its air suspension. I'm going to take that air suspension when I lease again early next year.
reliability - I actually have two LS cars - my wife's which is silver and my work car which is midnight pine. I found my wife's car to be so fabulous that when my work situation changed and I required another car I took another LS. I was tempted to go with an MB E but found the prices ridiculous so I simply took another LS as I'm convinced this is the best sedan in the world. My wife's car has 30k miles and has been problem free and my car has 51k miles and also has been problem free. I don't know anyone who has ever had a problem with an LS and I know at least 10 owners. My 95 was bought out by a friend at lease end (Paul - Ray Catena will make this easy for you if a friend or family member wants your car at lease end - assuming you're leasing) who has over 200k miles on it and is still riding beautifully. It has never had a major problem - just maintenance - though that does get more costly as you get to those mileage levels.
Vcheng - sorry to hear your troubles. You seem to have one of the few lemons they inevitably end up making. FYI - Ray Catena in NJ told me they once had a bad LS and forced Lexus to take the car back and get the person a new one. They may have been bsing me but I believed them. They are a big volume dealership and thus have the clout to do such a thing.
I will also admit that whichever checkout line I choose at the supermaket, that line is held up by something not being scanned, or the person drops something, or...you get the idea.
Leonard, I won't be leasing this time. Residual on the S500 was 71% back in 2000, why I leased. But residual on a LS430 ultra edition is only 51%; so I am buying this time.
As Consumer Guide and you suggested; I'll leave the stock all weather tires on the car and not go with chrome wheels.
Vcheng, Don't feel alone, as I had a lemon in my S500 too. The plastic housing for the NAV in the center section also creaks over most roads. I finally learned to live with the annoyance after a year. Various displays items also come on and off during drive. As you say, it takes you from A to B. But a $93K car should be much much more trouble free than a $20K Camry.
...the sound is not to my liking, and none too spectacular.
"not robust enough" translates into "poorly designed" in my book. Why not do a proper job, especially if one wants to brag about being one of the finest cars in the world?
as far as I know, is the only automotive audio specialist that controls which speakers are used with their systems. Even ML allows the manufacturer bean-counters (cost) and MPG engineers (weight) to select speakers.
When I bought my first Lexus, a 92 LS, I test drove several LS models and was surprised to hear how very noisy the A/S tires were vs summer. When we made our selection the car happened to have A/S which the dealer willingly swapped out to summer tires.
I almost always agree with what you have to say, as it pertains to LS model Lexus cars. Your comment in this post, referring to rear wheel drive as compared to front wheel drive is confusing. You say you would trust rear wheel drive in snow, and avoid front wheel drive. In a snow storm give me a front wheel drive car and a careful driver and I will have a better chance of getting home safely.IMHO. Do you agree?If not...please explain.
Most automobiles have only four points of contact with the roadbed. If only the forces needed to maintain directional control are dedicated to the front "contact patches", and the driving or engine lagging torque to the rear, you have, basically, an optimal setup.
FWD vehicles represent the absolute perfect solution right up until your enter the twilight zone, the point at which the front tires lose adhesion with the roadbed due to being "over-taxed". Right then is when you will wish for the ability to lift the accelerator and (throw an anchor, abet small, out the rear) use that engine lagging torque where it will help.
The best you can do in a FWD at this point is to quickly pop it into neutral, the majority of FWD being automatics.
I agree with your analysis. This past winter in New York was one of the worse with snow. I ventured into it with my RWD S500 with it's all seasons tires and it was fine on the snow as long as the road was flat. Gingerly made turns were also manageable, but the car was at the edge of disaster on any sorts of incline. I think AWD or 4-matic in Mercedes' case, or FWD might have been better in the declines, but not sure if FWD would have been better in everything else versus my RWD at the time.
Getting ready to have the 30,000 mile checkup on my 1999 LS400. Does the transmission fluid need to be changed or just checked? I have heard conflicting reports on this. All previous recommended maintenance has been performed by the dealer and car is driven under very average conditions. Any thoughts?
I have yet to hear a car audio system that is faithful to the source. I guess the audio enviroment requires that certian frequencies be boosted.
Back in the '60s several speaker manufactures discovered that if they boosted the 80Hz frequency range it would give the sound more slam (nineties terminolgy). JBL was one of the biggest proponents(offenders) of this speaker voicing. This was the "California Sound" that was so popular. It made rock recordings sound "good".
Both my Impala and Intrigue have this and also a boost in the lower midrange. It makes the guitars sound chunky.
When I put a cd in my Mirage M3/Sony ES system at home it doesn't do this.
I suspect that Mark Levinson lent his name to the system and didn't have much input. In the same way that Amar Bose is a marketing genius not an audio one.
I am just floored by the comments (and there have been several) suggesting that the ML in the LS has inadequate bass response. Maybe there is variability among individual cars, or maybe some folks want the woofers to actually move their car down the road thru acoustic vibrations, but I find it unfathomable. If you aren't 50 Cent or one of his posse, I don't understand how this can be.
I will admit that it has been many years since I sold hi fi equipment (before law school, when McIntosh was still the holy grail), but I know a Pioneer speaker from a Martin Logan, and I listen to demanding source material. Play the Mingus Big Band on the LS ML and tell me that the bass is not tight, even percussive. Deep, controlled, warm and enveloping. And with the bass control at 12:00.
I would not maintain that the ML system is the equal of a true high-end home system. First, the electronics alone on an average ML home system would cost, what, 10X as much? Add to that the design challenges and space limitations imposed on the designers and it is a miracle that the thing is even half-way acceptable. In my view, the ML is FAR more than that.
And you may dismiss my opinion, since you don't know me from Adam, but the folks at Absolute Sound are not exactly inexperienced or easily duped. Neil Gader was posititively breathless over this stereo when it was introduced.
Finally, wwest, when the system was first introduced, ML said that it included "the first speakers Mark Levinson has ever created." They may have been lying of course, but I have no reason to think so. And I suspect that had the "bean counters" been in charge, they would have selected something other than woofers with rare earth neodymium magnets. Remember, Madrigal owns ML, Harmon Kardon, and JBL. If they wanted to source speakers from a cheaper supplier, they certainly had one available. I suspect that they used the JBL manufacturing facilities to make drivers to ML's specs.
I am sorry if some folks who own the car have not enjoyed the system as much as I have. I see that b4z drives an Impala; how much time have you actually spent in the LS?
....why should a high end audio system blow out one of the speakers, if components are adequately matched and designed and manufactured to high standards?
My music is not bass heavy (Ray Coniff!), and the settings were two notches below the max on the bass control. Surely any decent system should last longer than six months before conking out!
Comments
91/92/???/confusion
My original 92, purchased new in late 91, has a manufacturing date of
09/91, as does the MY1992 I just bought in Tucson. The Tucson car's in service date was Nov. 91, about the same time I purchased ours.
Drove from Tucson to Seattle (via Fresno and Santa Cruz) with zero problems, got something between 25 and 26MPG.
New rear brake pads led to apparent Trac failures. Parking brake applied warning light was out as was speedo/tach needle ligting, replace entire speedo/tach assembly which led to airbag code 41. 6 oz. freon needed before leaving Tucson and replaced driver's side electric cooling fan for condensor. Now need new refrigerant pressure switch, compressor runs continuously and fans do not run, suction tube ices over to about 3/8" inch of rime ice in an hours A/C use.
Sent A/C control head away for new LCD. Didn't want actual control head out of my sight, so mounted dead LCD portion to 91 control head from wrecking yard and sent that away for repairs.
But some analysis done, climate control module certainly has some different acting aspects from my original 92.
No legal issues at all currently, just for my own satisfaction, mostly.
New shocks on order all around.
Installed 17x8 BBS-RX chrome wheels/tires (turanzas) from my 2000 GS300 since sold.
92 really was a damn good year for Lexus.
If I published Denso P/N and pin-out of private labelled microprocessor would anyone out there likely know how to do a "core-dump"?
One question...what kind of repairs has your 01 Ultra needed? My experience, as well as from what I've read on this post, is that these cars have been relatively trouble free. Just curious.
Who did you deal with at Catena?
paulchiu:Congrats on your purchase. It is a great car and you are sure to get many compliments on the quality, quiteness and ride. I thoroughly enjoy mine and it is the first car I've owned where I actually look forward to driving whenever possible. Happy trails!!!!
Ron
1. The gasket that seals the moonroof fell out on me as I opened the moonroof -- fixed
2. The trunk liner was loose somewhere and rattled against metal. -- fixed
3. Steering wheel groan. -- fixed but may be coming back.
4. Intermittent rattle in passenger window assembly -- not fixed but I couldn't reproduce it at the dealer. They must think I'm nuts.
5. Brake pedal does not fully release when car is cold. I have to pull it up the last 1/4 inch with my toe or the brake warning dings. -- parts replaced but not fixed. My dealer is 30 min. drive away and the car warms up by the time I get there and the brake releases then.
I admit that I would not worry about any of these if I were driving a Ford. I get the feeling after reading this board that there may be more things wrong with my car than average. The problems above, however minor, may be precursors to larger problems. At least that is what I hope Toyota assumes in the continuous improvement program.
I really like the car. I drove it from the San Francisco Bay area to Santa Barbara and back last weekend. My passengers and I enjoyed the ride.
I assume your Ultra was perfect when new? When did the troubles start? My 2001 S500 started to do many annoying things after a year. But was never that quiet to start.
Result of a Japanese customer survey.
Your parking brake pedal has a shock absorber also, to eliminate that "thunk" on release. You can try learning to hold the release handle out just a tad longer or you can remove the shock absorber and live with the "thunk".
But like the ones that hold the hood open it will get looser with time.
To give you some peace of mind, I also had the steering wheel groan. The dealer fixed it about 8 mos. ago and haven't had any further problems. The only other issue I had was with the automatic wipers...when I turned on the ignition on a hot day the wipers made one swipe for some reason. Again, I took it to the dealer and have had no further problems.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. If I was sitting in your drivers seat (I also keep cars for a long time) I think I'd go for the platinum coverage just in case. It's very expensive to fix electronic problems and the coverage could pay for itself after only one repair.
Let us know what you end up doing.
wwest - re:"Shock absorbers" - so do the LS passenger assist handles. Maybe not the same technology but the same effect. They return slowly and don't thunk.
I have never had to do this in the past. Any mechanics here?
Thankfully, the LS seems to be free of things that slam.
As for hitting 70mph - don't worry for a second. I hit 75+ right off the bat on my 2001 and never hesitated about speed in 95 or 98 on initial breakins back then. There is no way you can keep this car below 60mph on the road unless traffic dictates it. You don't feel any speed, it is virtually silent and it is as smooth as a jet in perfect air. I had the car over 100mph on the PA turnpike before I realized it and forced myself back to 80mph one time. It tends to happen so be greatful for cruise (actually laser cruise for you)
Again - best of luck and think about tinting all those windows if you can. I've only seen one in silver with the tinted windows but it was spectacular looking.
Again - best of luck.
Lemon is a little extreme. The gasket fell out after about 6 months, the trunk rattle after about 9 months, the steering wheel groan after 6 months, and the window rattle and brake release issue during the second year.
wwest,
The dealer replaced the brake release shock absorber. The problem was slightly worse afterwards. I think the dealer adjusted it when the car was warm. When the car is cold (55F overnight) I have the option of holding the brake release for about 15 sec (more during ski trips) or pushing it with my toe. I consider 15 sec to be more than a tad, so I use my toe.
ron36330 and jbianco12,
Thanks for the extended warranty guidance.
Should I go with the standard 17" all seasons tires with alloy wheels with my Ultra edition or this Euro sports suspension at 0 cost?
I want the best ride.
Thanks all!
There is a good answer about car break-in periods over at the click and clack site. Here is the link:
http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1997/September/02.html
It is also important to use the breaks fairly lightly (no sudden stops) for the first 250 miles or so. This is to avoid overheating them and causing a glazing on the pads that will reduce their stopping power. Just do your best, though, and don't get into any accidents over it. Even if you get some glazing, it'll just be until the next time you replace the pads.
Sean
17" wheels/tires
For the best soft and quiet "ride", go with summer tires, I use bridgestone turanzas.
I have found the LS to be excellent in this Seattle rain, and if you get too lead-footed the Trac will usually step in and bail you out.
Trac at the cost of interfering when/if you want to burn rubber, or more commonly rapid acceleration across a plastic crosswalk labelling strip.
And I would trust a RWD over FWD on snow and ice anytime. When I travel in the wintertime I make it a standard practice NEVER to rent a FWD vehicle.
The turanzas that wwest notes are known for the quietest and smoothest ride. That in conjunction with the soft ride mode on the LS will give you a dream ride. But I don't know what tires Lexus is offering now. I know when I renew I want those summer Turanzas.
Does the euro suspension mean that the dealer is not merely changing just the tires?
Any of you opted for the chrome wheels at 1K extra on your Ultra's?
Previous disappointments include:
Tires replaced due to flatspotting (fixed)
RF and LR tires mounted in wrong directions for unidirectional tread (swapped)
Sticking parking brake pedal (fixed)
Rattle from instrument cowl (fixed)
Rattles from centre stack (fixed)
Steering wheel cocked to the left (fixed)
Now the blown speaker, and still has rattles from right of dashboard.
The dealer has been excellent, but the car itself is hardly the epitomy of quality construction everybody hails it be, at least from my experience.
Maybe things will improve after all these little issues are resolved, I hope.
JD Powers has this report out recently:
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003028
There appears to be no more reliable car than the Lexus.
The tires problem was present when new. The steering wheel and the rattles followed in short order.
I agree it has been totally reliable since it has never failed to take me where I have wanted to go. But who would want to spend about $65K on a car and drive around with wobbly tires, a cocked steering wheel, rattles, and crappy sound from a Mark Levinson system?
I would think my expectations were realistic, and I had sufficient desire and faith to pay MSRP for this car.
The original Dunlops were replaced by Michelins. I felt the problem when I took it out on the highway the first time. The service guy told me they had lots of problems with the Dunlops for a fair period of time. Then why continue to use them as OEM tires? I am willing to overlook the wrongly mounted snow tires as a simple mistake, but had I spun out or worse and found out that the tires may have contributed, you bet I would consider talking to a lawyer.
The cocked steering wheel and rattles are just poor assemblymanship, not to be expected in this price range, by any manufacturer. For example, what was rattling in the center stack was a black piece of plastic that covers the two motors that move the air vents for the climate control system.
Why advertise the world famed Mark Levinson stereo, when the speakers are just plain not up to par with power handling? And no, I do not listen to bass-heavy music all day. This happened with Best of Fleetwood Mac and Ray Corniff CDs, with the bass setting two notches below maximum.
In fairness, the drivetrain is smooth and powerful, but this flagship sedan hardly makes the case, at least for me, that Lexus is head and shoulders above other manufacturers. It may be better in certain characteristics, but the Lexus badge has not ensured a good quality car in my case.
As I said before, the dealer is a delight, but I'd rather not have to see a problem, make an appointment, take it in, leave it for a diagnosis, get a time for having it fixed, take it back to be fixed, and then pick it up. Even when done politely and promptly, why should one have to do this multiple times over the first six months of ownership?
reliability - I actually have two LS cars - my wife's which is silver and my work car which is midnight pine. I found my wife's car to be so fabulous that when my work situation changed and I required another car I took another LS. I was tempted to go with an MB E but found the prices ridiculous so I simply took another LS as I'm convinced this is the best sedan in the world. My wife's car has 30k miles and has been problem free and my car has 51k miles and also has been problem free. I don't know anyone who has ever had a problem with an LS and I know at least 10 owners. My 95 was bought out by a friend at lease end (Paul - Ray Catena will make this easy for you if a friend or family member wants your car at lease end - assuming you're leasing) who has over 200k miles on it and is still riding beautifully. It has never had a major problem - just maintenance - though that does get more costly as you get to those mileage levels.
Vcheng - sorry to hear your troubles. You seem to have one of the few lemons they inevitably end up making. FYI - Ray Catena in NJ told me they once had a bad LS and forced Lexus to take the car back and get the person a new one. They may have been bsing me but I believed them. They are a big volume dealership and thus have the clout to do such a thing.
I won't be leasing this time. Residual on the S500 was 71% back in 2000, why I leased. But residual on a LS430 ultra edition is only 51%; so I am buying this time.
As Consumer Guide and you suggested; I'll leave the stock all weather tires on the car and not go with chrome wheels.
Vcheng,
Don't feel alone, as I had a lemon in my S500 too. The plastic housing for the NAV in the center section also creaks over most roads. I finally learned to live with the annoyance after a year. Various displays items also come on and off during drive. As you say, it takes you from A to B. But a $93K car should be much much more trouble free than a $20K Camry.
Mark Levinson made his reputation with electronics not with speakers.
I would imagine the speakers themselves are not robust enough for a automotive enviroment.
"not robust enough" translates into "poorly designed" in my book. Why not do a proper job, especially if one wants to brag about being one of the finest cars in the world?
To all, thank you for your kinds words and wit.
When I bought my first Lexus, a 92 LS, I test drove several LS models and was surprised to hear how very noisy the A/S tires were vs summer. When we made our selection the car happened to have A/S which the dealer willingly swapped out to summer tires.
FWD vehicles represent the absolute perfect solution right up until your enter the twilight zone, the point at which the front tires lose adhesion with the roadbed due to being "over-taxed". Right then is when you will wish for the ability to lift the accelerator and (throw an anchor, abet small, out the rear) use that engine lagging torque where it will help.
The best you can do in a FWD at this point is to quickly pop it into neutral, the majority of FWD being automatics.
I guess the audio enviroment requires that certian frequencies be boosted.
Back in the '60s several speaker manufactures discovered that if they boosted the 80Hz frequency range it would give the sound more slam (nineties terminolgy).
JBL was one of the biggest proponents(offenders)
of this speaker voicing.
This was the "California Sound" that was so popular. It made rock recordings sound "good".
Both my Impala and Intrigue have this and also a boost in the lower midrange.
It makes the guitars sound chunky.
When I put a cd in my Mirage M3/Sony ES system at home it doesn't do this.
I suspect that Mark Levinson lent his name to the system and didn't have much input.
In the same way that Amar Bose is a marketing genius not an audio one.
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000160605.cfm
I will admit that it has been many years since I sold hi fi equipment (before law school, when McIntosh was still the holy grail), but I know a Pioneer speaker from a Martin Logan, and I listen to demanding source material. Play the Mingus Big Band on the LS ML and tell me that the bass is not tight, even percussive. Deep, controlled, warm and enveloping. And with the bass control at 12:00.
I would not maintain that the ML system is the equal of a true high-end home system. First, the electronics alone on an average ML home system would cost, what, 10X as much? Add to that the design challenges and space limitations imposed on the designers and it is a miracle that the thing is even half-way acceptable. In my view, the ML is FAR more than that.
And you may dismiss my opinion, since you don't know me from Adam, but the folks at Absolute Sound are not exactly inexperienced or easily duped. Neil Gader was posititively breathless over this stereo when it was introduced.
Finally, wwest, when the system was first introduced, ML said that it included "the first speakers Mark Levinson has ever created." They may have been lying of course, but I have no reason to think so. And I suspect that had the "bean counters" been in charge, they would have selected something other than woofers with rare earth neodymium magnets. Remember, Madrigal owns ML, Harmon Kardon, and JBL. If they wanted to source speakers from a cheaper supplier, they certainly had one available. I suspect that they used the JBL manufacturing facilities to make drivers to ML's specs.
I am sorry if some folks who own the car have not enjoyed the system as much as I have. I see that b4z drives an Impala; how much time have you actually spent in the LS?
My music is not bass heavy (Ray Coniff!), and the settings were two notches below the max on the bass control. Surely any decent system should last longer than six months before conking out!