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Comments
Also, the rear cupholder is lame and has been replaced once too...only to break again after placing a can of pop in it. I think they improved/beefed-up that design in the '98's. That's all for now.
I just got my first oil and filter change at about 1,985 miles at the dealer. This may seem premature but most of my driving over the past 3+ months has been short trips around town in cold weather.
After picking up my car I noticed they stuck a reminder sticker inside the window for the next oil change to be 3000 miles later at 4985 miles. I'm sure there are a lot of variables in this matter but it seems that 3000 miles between oil/filter changes for most Camry's is considered "safe". If you follow the manual's suggestion at 7500 miles it seems you are courting the "sludge issue".
Now don't ask me whose idea it was to put 7500 miles in the manual. As owners we are supposed to read every thing in the material they give us. But now it looks like we are considered ignorant for believing it. :-)
I believe that changing oil every 3K is cheap insurance if your going to keep your vehicle for a length of time. $25 every 3 months or so is not THAT big a deal...compared to a new engine. Plus it adds fuel to your side of an argument down the road with a dealer, etc. in the case of a breakdown and how you took care of the vehicle. Hard for them to say you didn't maintain the vehicle properly, therefore it's your issue to pay for. True, it's a hassle of time to do it, but my dealer is quick and get's me back on the road with little waste of time.
Been there and done that once too much!!
First of all, I've always been extremely impressed with Toyota and the Camry as a whole. Maybe its just me, but I've always placed the Camry in mind as having slightly higher status or brand placement than the mid-level sedans (Accord, 626, Galant, Taurus). I've alwasy thought it was a half-step closer to the entry level luxury sedans, and existing on a upper-mid-level sedan status with the Maxima. It just always seems to have nicer equipment (leather, JBL audio, heated seats, etc) then those other competitors.
In an effort to replace my wife's Camry, we looked extensively at the new Camry XLE V6 and were very impressed. We both felt that the new Camry has gotten more luxurious, and competes well with some of the near-luxury competition (Acura TL, Infinti I30, Mazda Millenia). However, the wife has gotten to the point in her life when she wants to enjoy the fruits of our labors, and is ready to be pampered by a luxury brand. Naturally (and I'm sure this is how Toyota management loves to have it happen) we are in the process of purchasing a 2002 Lexus ES300 (a car which is itself a half step up from the rest of the entry level luxury competition).
I've noticed many people making comments on the disappointment with the Camry horsepower ratings for the V6. To be honest, to the majority of the people that purchase this car (and do not read this board), that really doesn't make a difference. I've driven the Camry many of times, and never once have I ever found the need for more power. Sure it would be nice, but necessary? no...especially at the price of fuel economy (I'm getting an excellent 25 mixed city highway). Yes, the Altima has more, and it really has the style. But its interesting because the Altima appears to be such a good car on paper and in advertising, that when you actually see the car "in the flesh" and drive it...you're let down. Nissan went after and radically improved the things that are going to make a good first impression (style and horsepower), but I feel that they missed alot of quality issues with this car.
Finally, I'd like to comment on sludge or "oil gel" as Toyota is calling it. I've changed the oil in my 98 V6 every 5000 miles or 4 months, and never had a problem. I recently read the letter from Toyota (which seems very vague), and I went and talked about the sludge issue with the service manager at my local dealer when I had my last oil change. He advised me he has seen sludge in Toyota V6's, however he also added that every case that both he and other dealers have seen usually are from people that change their oil themselves or at independent lube places. He also added every time he sees sludge, he also has seen signs of neglect (old oil filters that were never changed, dirty engine bays, or lack of other maintenance items like tire rotations or transmission fluid changes). He states that the few people that have developed this condition have really neglected their cars, and Toyota engines have a low tolerance for abuse, but it is not something to worry about if you follow the maintenance guidelines as recommended.
Well, don't mean to drag on a preach, but I thought I'd give me 2 cents about Toyota and my ownership experience.
The Camry has been virtually trouble-free, with one exception: At 57K miles, the car developed blue smoke on startup. The problem was diagnosed as worn valve stem seals, which were replaced by the local Toyota dealer. At the same time, the head gasket was replaced, because coolant "seepage" onto the outside of the engine block was discovered. All work was done under the terms of the 5-year/60K powertrain warranty. No sludge either!
What seems to have been lost in all of this arm-waving is how small the number of problems is compared to the total number of cars on the road -this makes for great journalism and headlines, and I am happy for the folks who had problems who can NOW GET THEM FIXED. This, however, doesn't change the fact that hundreds of thousands of Toyota owners out there have not, nor ever will have, an oil-related problem with their cars.
My experiences with both Toyota and Honda have not been flawless, just better than everyone else I've dealt with, and I've owned them all, including all of the high-bucks German brands.
Surekha
a) How much oil you had added for period xxx K miles
b) % city driving and % high way driving
I'm interested in V6 engine since I may be going to get one. I checked at the dealer today for Camry V6, they said to order the Camry that could be as long as +3months.
Thanks.
2] Consumers Union is beholden to no one except their [mostly anti-car and anti-big business] Board of Directors, and their subscribers. No one gets a pass. They've savaged some big players in the past, including several Japanese manufacturers. It's truly amusing to imagine this bunch, who sometimes in the past have come across as the ultimate anti-business organization, suddenly deciding that Toyota is untouchable. Believe whatever you want - I've sometimes winced at the stances that CU takes, but never because they SPARED a product criticism. And when the situation changes with a recommended product, they never hesitate to SAY the situation has changed and withdraw their recommendation.
If you really want to find a conspiracy here, by all means believe whatever you wish - nothing that gets said here is going to make any difference to anyone's strongly held beliefs one way or another.
And, regarding ignoring bad press or bad results about Toyota, they nailed Toyota pretty hard during their first test of the just replaced generation of Corolla. The first model year, the Corolla didn't have an anti-roll bar that the Chevy Prizm (its sister car) did. The result was that the Corolla was really bad at their accident avoidance maneuver, while the Prizm was good. I think it was as soon as the second model year of that gen Corolla that the "missing" anti-roll bar was added.
And they don't automatically top rate Toyotas anyway. That same gen Corolla has ranked below the Civic, Protege, Jetta and Focus in their latest tests... and this was not a "close, but no cigar" ranking... they said that it tested out considerably lower than the aforementioned competitors. Also, the Tacoma has never been ranked even close to the top. And the test of the Echo was a real bust.
and won in court?
In the same post #2990, it was mentioned that GM has the same problem. Maybe so, but I've seen no evidence of it. I've been a GM owner for about 15 years and have never seen a news items about sludge related to GM, nor has the issue come up with my cars at the Oldsmobile and Buick dealerships I've dealt with. I asked my Buick service manager some general questions about sludge at my last oil change recently. I've changed oil about every 3,000 to 5,000 miles, and he sees no problem with my car. He did say Buick is getting ready to offer synthetic oil for the first time, with a moderately expensive (about $35) and more expensive (about $45) options, for those interested in it. I may look into this, but dino oil has never created a sludge problem I'm aware of in my '82 Olds, '91 Century, or '96 Regal.
I'm still in the new Camry market, but would like to see something more definite from Toyota about the sludge issue before I buy. Have they stated publicly that there is no design or build quality problem with their engines vis-a-vis sludge?
You've got to be kidding. I've bought quite a few cars both business and personal and I've only had two salesmen (out of possibly 100 counting the ones I've walked away from) that were informed of much of anything beyond commissions and spiffs.
Toyota is by far the worst in my area, mainly young punks who will tell you anything to get you to buy a car. The closest Toyota dealer is actually pretty good to deal with, but they have Honda and Chysler also and don't stock many Toyotas for some reason. I've bought other makes from them but they've never been able to get the Toyota I wanted. Right now I'm trying to buy a Celica for an employee and having the same trouble. According to all the dealers "toyota isn't making them that way". We'll probably end up buying something else again, our fleet has dwindled to one toyota now. Apparently they think we'll just buy whatever they feel like building, but I refuse.
: )
Mackabee
Mackabee
"So Toyota has a minor sludge problem, but folks out there who changed their oil at 5000-6000 miles? Give me a break. You deserve problems for abusing your cars like that"
Well, problem is that the owner's manual says 5000 severe and 7,500 normal. Is obeying the manual abuse under your definition?. And engine failure is A MINOR PROBLEM.
It runs a tad bit slow i.e.; a 45 minute cassette (1 side) takes 47.5 minutes. You can hear the difference. Assuming the cassette might be longer, I ran it in another deck and it ran 46 minutes.
I also recently rented a 02 camry LE, and its cassette player had the same problem.
Could mackabee or anyone else please verify their cassette run time for 02 camry and report back to the board.
I have reported to the dealer but will not authorize the unit replacement because so far it appears they are all like that.
I think Toyota may have to replace/fix all the units.
If not, can you explain why it can't be done? Also, can you refer me to a model number for the Sony or Pioneer in-dash CD-changer that CAN be installed after the factory ships the car? I do NOT want a trunk-mounted unit.
otherwise you just get the single cd and the nav.
Mackabee
I am still considering the Toyota - mostly with the hopes of avoiding those annoying and potentially costly trips. I just want to be sure Toyota is not overextending itself with all the new models being offered. Also, there is this sludge issue (which no matter how you cut it they tried to cover up) and then the blue smoke recall, slow cassette player etc. etc. Die hards ignore all this but before I plunk down that extra $3K I want to be sure I'm not just buying a name.
I am non biased purchaser. I see a Ford for what it is but it is not that bad as some claim. I also own a '96 Rav with 65K miles. It had the head gaskets repaired and later the short block engine replaced, the transmission was rebuilt, a new P. Window switch replaced, the rear door creaking has been repaired saeveral times and today it is getting a $425 new muffler. (YES I HAD AN EXTENDED WARRANTY) Note I am not waving a banner saying Toyotas are over-rated junk and bashing them. Perhaps my first Toyota was simply a lemon. I just wanted to get a feeling for whether the Toyota value is more perceived, status symbol or actually apparent.
I still plan on holding off the Taurus a bit but won't purchase a new Camry with our some sort of Toyota incentive.
All you owners out there....do you buy the extended warranty?
My 92 V6 Camry had the CD/Cassette combo and when I was selling the guy asked if the cassette worked. I had never used it so I had no clue!
Maybe this persons cassettes are worn out? Doesn't take long before they sound crappier than normal.
I work at a Toyota store and bought my wife a 2002 LE. I'll have her listen to some tapes and she what she says. So far I haven't heard of any concerns, but again, how many use tapes these days ?
Make: TOYOTA
Model: CAMRY
Year: 2002
ODI ID: 899154
Summary:
WHILE DRIVING THERE WAS SMOKE COMING FROM VEHICLE. WHEN CONSUMER SAW SMOKE STOPPED VEHICLE, AND THEN VEHICLE CAUGHT ON FIRE IN ENGINE. CONTACTED DEALER, AND DEALER WAS NOT WILLING TO DO ANYTHING.*AK VEHICLE WAS COMPLETELY IN FLAMES AND FIRE DEPARTMENT CAME AND PUT OUT THE FIRE. *YD
1-800-Toy stated that I should have the seatbelts replaced and that they were 'reasonably sure' that I would be reimbursed if I sent the invoice/receipt into Toy Customer Service. I am hearing a multitude of people with this seatbelt problem; won't retract - just hangs out the door/on the seat. So, maybe if more call Toy, they'll get the message as a true recall.
Smoking at starting: Confirmed that the 4bangers have this issue with cracked seals on the valve stems. The local dealer AND Toyota agreed it's a problem that can only get worse if you let it go. I DO have the Toy ExtraCare - 100K miles/6yrs. coverage. Thankfully, this WILL be covered BECAUSE I have the extended warranty. Normally, they will only cover it to 60K miles. So beware of this on the 4's. My Camry has 76K on it and the problem started about 55K miles.
So, even though it's a Toy, I say, if you're going to keep the vehicle for an extended time (my case 8-10yrs.) get the extended warr.. If you lease or trade-in every 3yrs., don't bother.
I THINK it's like any vehicle; the first model year is the one that has most of the bugs in it. '97 was the first year of that model, just as 2002 is for the new ones. I know of someone who has the exact same LE I have, except it's a 98 and the car is much more quiet and seems to have more pep than mine...suppose to be the same HP spec....so why, I don't know.
Of course, I own a '96 model and don't really drive it much so I will have a different experience.
My Mom has gotten CR for years and two years ago I was visiting her when the consumer survey packet arrived. It was like taking the SATs with all those little dots to be filled in with a #2 pencil. When we got to the auto section I began to ask her for responses for her 97 Camry from engine to body integrity. She replied that everything was perfect. I said you have had some problems like valve seals, head gasket recall, premature break replacement and the third set of front struts. She replied that it was not the car's fault and that she always gave a score of much better than average. After much discussion we finally gave the car the ranking it deserved. I realized then that the majority of Camry owners are not that mechanically minded( for that matter, Honda owners as well) and you only have to multiply my Mom by a few thousand to get the results you see in CR. Personally, I feel any car that needs three sets of front struts, a head gasket and valve seals at 55k has a worse than average reliability. Did this stop my Mom from buying a new Avalon or myself a 02 LE Camry? No, but I think Toyota quality has slipped over the years. I guess Toyota has decided to sit on their laurels. As far as CR's reliability reports go. Take them with a grain of salt. Speaking of salt, almost every Honda Accord, 96 and older, I see here in the Northeast has rust over the rear wheel well but CR reports always lists rust as much better than average.
2. I use high quality cassettes (Metal, CrO2) which have CD quality sound. Muffled sound is easily avoided if you don't contaminate the heads.
3. I like cassettes because single CDs are very difficult to load while driving vs. cassettes.
4. The base Camry stereo is not sophisticated enough to notice any difference in CD vs. cassette clarity esp. with road/engine noise in the background...I have played both the CD and its cassette version and they are very similar. (except speed) Also, cassette quality is only as good as the equipment that records it.
5. Hi quality cassettes are easily customizable without investing in a lot of equipment. Also, I don't think that the Camry CD is MP3 compatible.
I will again request 02 Camry owners to check the run time of any 90 minute (45 minute 1 side) cassette i.e; I got 47 minutes vs my other decks would do 46 minutes for the same high quality CrO2 cassettes.
I bought the Camry because it is like a hot stock with a high p/e, people will pay for what they think it will do for them, and I want to cash in on the high resale value after a few years. In fact, I think at least in Canada, the 2003 price will go up because right now it is priced below a base Altima, and the Camry LE's are selling like hot cakes. This is good for resale.
My first impression is that I don't expect the "overal reliability" to be any different for the Camry vs the chevy. My definition of "overall reliabiliy" includes performing to spec, structural integrity, and abiliity to withstand Canadian conditions such occassional bumps and grinds in very bad weather.
For example, while I expect the Camry will have fewer electrical/brake issues than the chevy, it will probably need more alignments and more repairs due to fender benders or curb/potholes in slippery weather. This includes things like CV boots.
Just my first impression when comparing, but I could be wrong, and hope so too.
I think your assumption that your mother is the prototypical CR survey respondent is inaccurate. She does sound like a very nice person, however.
BTW, I don't see the epidemic of rust in 96 and older Accords, and I live in the Rust Belt.
I hope this improves.
According to brochure, it should be about 32mpg hwy and 23 mpg city, so it should be somewhere in between, but this last fill-up was a shock to me.
Any other 02 LE owners checking their fuel economy?
I do know a couple folks in the Twin Cities who are very knowledgeable about Toyota's - I hope you are able to find them.
I also know another salesman that sells Mitsubishi, Audi, Buick, and Suburu. He has been there about 15 years and makes more money than most sales folks could ever imagine. But he spends considerable time making it a career instead of just a job.
Best thing Toyota can do is employ some total quality in their dealerships. I know the dealerships are privately owned, but you can make these worthless [non-permissible content removed] owners miserable if you want.