Lincoln LS

ANT14

And R&T calls this predicting? Miss Cleo could have done a better job. The Conti development is going just as planned so far, although a few hiccups are being worked out.

slunar

You sure woke up this forum, Desertguy.

Yes, Lincoln's maketing of the LS has been horrible. But marketing has had to live with sr. management decisions made a decade ago to put 11 or their 12 eggs in to trucks and SUV's.

The Lincoln LS's main problems are:

The LS is a point product that has next to nothing in commong with the rest of Lincoln's product line.

Lincoln's image is that of less than hip underperforming cars. I wouldn't want the job of trying to market the LS with that baggage.

The Lincoln LS doesn't have a name, instead it's labeled as a trim level.

heyjewel - There was an article in Det. News this week that said suppliers have already been notified that the Aviator is gone after 2005. On the other hand "Reports of the death of Lincoln’s Aviator have been greatly exaggerated, insisted Ford Motor Co. COO Nick Scheele, during a discussion with reporters in Traverse City."

mtnh

The word is out on the engine used by the Aviator and Marauder, that the 2004 model year is its last year of production in the plant that produces them. That is, the all-aluminum, 32-valve 4.6 liter V8. A worker for that plant announced that at another forum that I read last week.

ANT14

Yes, but they are going to phase in a 3V 4.6L version of that engine (just like the new 5.4L 3V on the F-150), the Mustang will be the first to use the 4.6L 3V. And after that, expect 2-3 years before the 4.6L 3V is phased in on the rest of the products that current use the 4.6L.

erickpl

How do you guys think a crossover would be if it were done on the LS's platform?

The more I look at the LS V8, the more I am liking it. Traditional styling, yes, but it does catch the eyes.

Does anybody know what kinds of changes are in store for 2004? As for LM's direction, I think the LS could be the start of a trend towards marketing to the younger generations. As has been mentioned here several times, Lincoln's marketing has been to the late 40's + crowd.

Trying to compete with the younger generations means more than just a smooth ride. It means using the newest technologies to give you the best of both worlds - lux and sport. If Lincoln can emphasize the technology and the performance they can provide, and back it up with interesting and reliable vehicles, they have a shot. Address reliability issues with widely advertised stress tests and make that part of your marketing plan.

Regardless, get somebody in there who knows how to market to the younger generations!

Take what interests the younger generations: music, flashy displays, quick graphics transitions, things moving fast. If they could nail an ad campaign using these kinds of techniques... who knows. I like how Buick is using the Tiger Trap concept. Makes the ads fun... which garners interest.

I'm 34 and I'm amazed that I'm considering the LS! It shouldn't have to be like that.

-Paul

heyjewel

Yes, I saw the Det News article. Sounded pretty speculative to me. Glad to hear Scheele at least said that.

I would think that, if the demise of the Aviator rumor is baseless (or the Marauder for that matter), Ford would **aggressively** try to put it to rest. I'm sure this turns potential customers off. And I'm SURE because I'm one of them. The Aviator has been on my short list for a while to replace my Tahoe. But, now I'm thinking why be associated with a loser? What's so bad about it that nobody wants it, including Lincoln?
These thoughts are somewhat balanced by the car itself and the reviews which put it on a par with the *best* in it's class in most areas, including driving dynamics, and above the others in a few areas, like the important, for my use, towing capability. And it's much better than it's siblings, the Explorer and Mountaineer in these areas and the interior is *very* nice.
I've also read that sales numbers are really not bad at all. So why the cancellation talk? I don't understand. Geez, the car's been on the market since, what, last summer or fall? I've seen one commercial for it where some apparently deranged idiot drives around gleefully in the rain with the sunroof open and an umbrella stuck thru it, which he next gives to a doorman. I mean who the heck are they aiming that at - escapees from the state hospital?? Who the he__ is running Lincoln's marketing now anyway?
OK, gotta quit ranting.
Oh, one more thing. Someone said (and I read it on autoextremist too) that the Aviator will be replaced by a crossover type vehicle ala Chrysler Pacifica. Well, that's just plain bull. I mean, that'd (almost:>) be like saying you're replacing the F-150 with the Contour. These are two completely different vehicles. The Aviator is a muscular, tow-happy truck-based sit-up-high SUV. The Pacifica is a modern station wagon that couldn't tow a Beetle. If Lincoln wants a crossover, fine, but it won't be a replacement for the Aviator.
Oh, and I would be shocked it the 4.6 modular V8 was really going away. That's a great engine. I owned one. It would also surprise me that a 'worker' at an engine plant would be privy to what will or won't be mfg'd there a year or more in the future.

desertguy

"The Pacifica is a modern station wagon that couldn't tow a Beetle."

Well, you know I just had to look that up. The Pacifica can tow 3500 pounds. The curb weight of the Beetle('98+) is about 2850. Speaking of the Pacifica, there is another example of a car that was poorly marketed from the start. They sent nothing but loaded cars to the dealers. Most were stickering at 41K or more. No buyers so they found a scapegoat in the head of marketing (tough position that), fired him and now are sending base models to the dealers most without AWD. Stay tuned.

heyjewel

OK, so the Pacifica can tow a Beetle without gas and gear. (:>) I was close though! OTOH, the Aviator can tow more than twice that, which illustrates my point.

OK, donning flak jacket. I have owned a 2001 LS for 2 1/2 years, 34000 miles. It's been dead-on reliable. Although there have been some PIA issues that have had it at the dealer more than I'd like, I always had a loaner so I'm not real bothered.

However, I admit that I wouldn't doubt that there have been a fair share of LSes that have been lemon law'd. Heck, there've been at least a few posters on this board who've swapped out LSes. I guess in one way you *might* consider it good - that folks with "troubled LSes" *are* able to get new vehicles seemingly relatively easily?

OTOH, I suspect that, if it is true, the reason is that some of the problems that crop up on the LS seem to be extremely hard to find and/or fix. Like, say, stalling, or battery drain, or ... I think the roots of this are twofold: (1) The LS is a high-tech complex vehicle. Especially for a Ford. (2) The dealer service folks are in general, IME and IMHO, incapable of adequately diagnosing and fixing many of these tough problems, and even some simple ones. Heck, my dealer service dept didn't even know how much oil to put in my Duratec V6 until I blew up at them after I found the engine 2 quarts low shortly after a schedule maintenance visit.

So, that's the way I see it. Wouldn't turn me off on the car though. The vast majority are like mine. If only jack (n)asser hadn't gutted dealer service by nickel-diming the techs, drastically shortening expected job times and thereby driving good ones away. And I wonder how many have even been 'trained' on the LS?

desertguy

That reminds me that when I bought my LS in 10/99 the salesman had been specially trained on the nuances of the LS. They flew a group of the top sales people from different So. Cal. dealerships to San Fran. for indoctrination into the world of the LS. They even got some track time and my salesman really knew his stuff and demonstrated it during the test drive. I wonder if this was some of J. Rogers doing. Anyway, I was suitably impressed and could hardly wait to finish the paper work. :-)

acenj

Folks,

I have a 2001 V8 Sport. Last 2 days everytime I put the key in the ignition, it won't turn w/o major struggles. Had it towed to the dealer today. Anyone else with this type of problem?

Aceman

sawmill

Besides the general problems with factory quality control -- and Ford has always had difficulties there -- the LS has a unique challange to reliability:

The rear end, is a sub-chassis, made mainly of aluminum, and it is isolated from the rest of the car by a flexible, rubber joint, that makes the car more manueverable at slow speeds (...and you guys thought I slept through that technical presentation at Lincoln headquarters in Irvine, California two years ago).

The battery is in the trunk. The goods, including computer, is up front. It is a considerable engineering problem (believe it or not) to keep the ground between the rear end and the front chassis secure and constant -- and also to keep the positive battery cable secure as it snakes from the trunk, through the fender well, up to the front firewall, where it has another bolt-on link before entering the engine compartment.

Not having a single, solid conductor from Alternator to battery, and a single, solid ground, wreaks havoc with the level of communications and complexity of the add-on modules on the LS. You can hear it in the AM radio. Perhaps that is the cause of the mystery beeps. It definitely is the cause of many of the problems I have had with my LS, and others have reported.

This isn't a TSB issue, it is a design issue.

sawmill

Haven't had that problem -- sounds like a dead battery, or a bad starter motor.

If it won't crank at all, it's the PATS - passive anti-theft system -- there are common problems with that unit involving the connector to the module, and loss of the programming. All are easy to diagnose.

nvbanker

Well, I was thinking it's a malfunctioning neutral lock out switch, or maybe your gearshift isn't quite parking in park like it should?

jdadamsjr

Did I read that correctly ?!?!
You obviously DON'T have an LS !
I have a 2002 LS-V8 Premium Sport and it hasn't had a HICCUP !!!
All I've spent on it is gas since all the maintenance is covered for 3 yrs and 36000 miles !!!

It is a CLASSY car, a FAST car, a SPORTS car...
I've had european, British, and american sports cars and NONE of them handled like my four door 'sedan'...

The ONLY thing wrong with my '02 is that it isn't an '03 with the 500+ improvements, one of the best Nav systems I've seen, and a THX stereo that is super....

congarobert

I am asking for suggestions, My 2000V8 has had the following problems,
FOGGING HEADLAMPS <replaced>
 REAR WINDOW FAILURE <had assemblys replaced>
 CAR WILL NOT START <dealer replaced a relay
 A/C FAILURE <replaced hose coolant
A/C FAILURE <back to dealer ongoing
 WILL NOT START <back to dealer ongoing
 MYSTERY BEEPS <ongoing
 STEERING WHEEL < inch play back and forth
 CROME TAPE ON DOOR HANDLES PEELING <replaced
 see part 2

congarobert

My car is going back to the the dealer Monday Morning
Is there any thing else I should have check out or replaced that is prone to failure
The dealer tells he cant duplicate the occasinal
none start and the a/c failure is occasinal also
I have only had the car since March and had all the failures happen since I bought it.

blkgrape

I have the exact same problem with the starting in my 2000 V8 Sport. It has been 3 wks at the dealer trying to get the problem fixed. It started with replacing the battery. That was the first try it didn't solve it. Then this week the replaced wire harness #1w4z 13a612 and a new jumper assembly as per service bulletin 01 16 04.

This was suppose to be the cure, i picked the car up earlier this week and upon leaving the lot the car stalled and refused to start again, cranked but would not fire. This morning they think that it could be the fuel pump so it will be replaced on Monday.

This is now the third week of trying to solve that problem hopefully this is the solution. You may want to mention these steps to your service manager in order to save time.

I will repost later next week and let you know if the fuel pump solved the problem

Good Luck

heyjewel

jd;

If you're referring to my post #12147, then you did read it wrong. "Dead-on reliable" should be interpreted as "my LS has never let me down." But it ain't perfect and has had some little issues, none of which ever affected me getting where I wanted to go.
Maybe u should reference the post number you're referring to?

conga;

Well, I think we've heard you yelling before. Of the issues you have described, 3 are well-known, 2 of which have tsbs and you had no trouble getting them fixed. The 3rd, mystery beeps, you just gotta live with. The door hadles (inside I presume) are cheap POSes that don't belong in a Lincoln. The steering wheel play is normal. Least that's what they told me.
That leaves A/C and will not start. Hey, maybe failure to fix these illustrates my point in 12147?

erickpl

I would think Lincoln could get that right. Many German cars have trunk-mounted batteries, including my 3 series. I would think the proper insulation and wiring practices could take care of that. Maybe Lincoln should be a 3 Series and dissect it.

-Paul

sawmill

An independent, electrically isolated rear sub-chasis is pretty novel. Aluminum is not the best conductor -- it oxidizes with a thin, non-conductive layer that breaks electrical contact, and does not, like iron oxide, flake off.

Quite a problem for a car that communicates through a common bus to most of its modules. Reminds me of the days office computers first came out -- you had to get a solid, isolated, unbroken wire from the main panel and ground. Same problem with the LS -- the electronic control systems are very sensitive, but the car's power supply is pretty much standard automotive technology.

sloopofwar

Look I am very serious. this is regarding the mor bang for the buck thread. For those who are just catching up.... I want to put a ford svt cobra engine in my 00 LS.

I understand that this forum is for the light hearted run of the mill LS driver but I hope that someone from the Lincoln or Ford camp chimes in every now and then and is sincerely interested in doing something really sick to a very nice car.

Again I want to transplant a 00 o new SVT Cobra engine, convert to the 6 spd tranny, etc.. I really want this thing to scare the pants of the imports and am not looking to make this look like one of those god foresaken boy racers. I want to maintain the beautifully classic lines that I fell in love with way way back in 99'.

"you fine folks now have the con"

ezaircon4jc

Sorry sloop, won't work. Besides the problem of even getting the engine to fit in the bay (the 3.9L is so tight, there is no room for a tranny dipstick!), there is the problem of the pcm. The pcm needed for the swap won't be able to communicate with the rest of the car. This idea has been discussed at depth, and we've been assured by the folks that know, that it would be cheaper to buy a car such as the S-type R than to try to do a major engine swap.

sloopofwar

Many thanks for the tech advice..... I am very upset to here this news. I was just talling my wife that I really wanted to do this very naughty thing to my car and that this would be the only way i could keep from pursuing the purchase of a cafe style motorcycle.

Not ot beat a dead horse, or LS in this case...sorry, but what if the ls computer was left behind to control the creature comfort items as I sincerely want to preserve the look and feel of the ls. My primary goal was to maintain as much of the oem design and function in reagrds to exterior styling and interior ergonomics.

Also, knowing what I do know, which is very little.... I have seen that many custom cars are cut and refitted with new engine mounts etc to accomodate new power plants. How much room if any exists in the engine compartment on back.

My wife works in the organ transplatation industry which has little to do with this subject other than the term they use for motorcycles.... which is donorcycles.... so yo can see she would rather see me buy a puppy than a horse...

I am not above doing some aggressive mods to pull this off but being tnis is the first time I have pondered doing such an evil deed I would like to speak to a community that has intimate knowledge of the LS. I really really want to do this. Plus I am thinking this would be easier than convincing my wife that I am still an accomplished motorcycle jockey even though it has been 7 years since I have ridden.

Thanks again for the constructive feedback.

BTW... I do like the s-type r and know that it is american car evebn though it does hail from abroad

kelleyo

Why not transplant the Stype R engine?

It goes new for about 12,000....

lobsenza

engine has a different computer protocol, so it would be very difficult to get everything to talk.

lateralg

NOX instead?

sloopofwar

I have thought about it and I have some neighbors that do use it in thier boy racers mobiles. According to them that only pitfall of its use is the need for frequent engine rebuilds and frankly would rather just go straight to the horses with a strong engine.

This is a special car, not little yellow bus special either....although I think the little bus may be about as fast, and it really deserves a special engine and the first thing that comes to mind is Ford Cobra SVT. Unless someone knows of a strong 6 that could be fitted into the engine bay I am ready to beat it to fit and paint it to match, the Cobra SVT engine that is.

heyjewel

"I think the little bus may be about as fast"

Methinks this poster is a bit of a troll?

sawmill

(if it is not too controversial) I really don't know.

sawmill

After 3.5 years with my 2000 LS - 8, I am suprised how close my experience and observations match the Edmunds long-term test and reviews -- good job Edmunds!

heyjewel

Well, in internet parlance best way I could put it is someone who joins a discussion, seemingly with some cogent points or questions, but quickly his message begins to look like he just wants to 'stir things up.'

His reference to the LS being 'slow as a bus'

and this comment about 'us':
"this forum is for the light hearted run of the mill LS driver "

are what makes me think troll. But I could be wrong. Maybe he really does want to put a Cobra engine is his LS instead of getting a "cafe style motorcycle." I can see the similarities! (:>)

sawmill

Way back when, several members on this board mentioned they "clayed" their LS after getting it from the dealer, and it made a big difference. Well, finally got around to trying that, and after a new wax coat -- the finish on the old LS looks better than my wife's 2003 V6 LS.

I recently had a paintless dent repair service take out the shopping cart "dings" for about $90, and the car looks (to me, at least) like it just rolled off the assembly line. There really was a lot of overspray and other gunk on the surface of the clear-coat -- now I can feel the difference.

koury

Where did you have the dents taken out? I've got so many of those on my 2000 it's not funny - looks terrible.

lsjim

Any type/mfg recommendations on the "clay" product?
I too have a 2000 LS and am ready to try this method...

div2

Dent Wizard has a good reputation, but you might check with your dealer and see who they use. My dealer is going to let me bring the 5er over on a day that the dent guy is scheduled to work and I'll be able to get the dents removed at the dealer cost.

nvbanker

I recommend Griot's Garage. They're on the web at griotsgarage.com I think. They produce affordable, high quality products for car finishes.

joe166

You can buy clay at almost any auto parts store. I have tried several different kinds including Zaino and there is little or no difference so I now buy whatever is on sale. Mothers and Meguiars are usually available for less than $15 per package, which includes a small package of clay wrapped in a plastic wrap and a very small bottle of liquid wax, which I promptly toss out and a spray bottle of instant wax which is their reccomended way of lubricating the clay. It is not good enough to use as the final "wax", but I then wash with Dawn dishwashing detergent and apply the polymer of my choice, which is Zaino. Look at the boards for wax and Zaino, which are separate and you will see lots more than you want to read about this subject.

sawmill

I used "Dentman" -- has a web site, and is located in Southern California. They use long, narrow tools and push the dents out from behind, while they tap around the edges outside with a small plastic stylus. Amazing -- I don't see any marks, even when reflecting light off the side of the car.

I got the clay at Pep Boys -- there were two brands - claymagic and mcquires - I bought the claymagic, which was about $4.00 less than Mcquires. Now I'm a believer in claying.

eor2

To those considering the LS, and those with lots of concern about quality. I have a 2001 LSV8 Sport with all options, with 34,000 miles, for 2 1/2 years. Only problems to date have been a "sensor failur" at about 15K, and one of the rear windows drives failed at 32K. Both were fixed without question by the dealer. In the case of the rear window unit, the diagnostics specs on the work order stated that both were to be replaced, and both were. The only thing I would really like to improve is the slightly bumpy ride of the Firestones. That I will solve when the tires need to be replaced, which is not soon based on the current tread.

It is a fun car to drive, plenty of room, and more power than I can often use. The power & torque really shine when passing at highway speeds. You are slammed back in the seat. Not as impressive at lower speeds, but not bad. The biggest problem is keeping within the "acceptable" over the limit range on the interstate.

As to dealers, mine here in the Seattle area is excellent in my book. Service is prompt, efficient, no arguments, loaners, and the sales people really knew the car specs.

Marketing is a problem for this car and I agree with many of the posts on this board in that respect. Lincoln does not know how to market a performance car, that simple. In this area BMW's and MB's are the "status car" for many. However, except for resale value the LS has it over many of them in my book.

I read this board every couple of weeks but rarely comment. However felt it was time to comment, given some of the latest postings.

Elbert

sawmill

You're lucky.

Even with all the problems, it is still a fun car to drive and to look at. There is no question that Lincoln recognizes the problems and fixes them -- it is just that sometimes the mechnics are not well trained, or certain parts are kept in Detroit and only released to the dealer repair shop when the need arises -- but this has gotten better now that there are more cars on the road, and the mechanics see the patterns of problems LS's have.

The proof is in the Technical Service Bulletins -- especially the ones that say do not repair unless the customer asks - like replacement of the defective rear window actuators.

desertguy

"certain parts are kept in Detroit and only released to the dealer repair shop when the need arises." I think rather it is because the dealers are loath to tie up any money in parts that aren't used on a daily/weekly basis. That is of course if the parts are available at all. When my first rear window failed in late 1999, there were just no regulators available. The mfg. didn't expect numerous failures so didn't have a supply on hand. It is not a part you would expect to fail or have a finite life. This I can understand. Not stocking parts I don't and most all the dealers have poor parts inventories. I know my Jag dealer does.

sawmill

Yeah, you're right. It's must be too expensive to keep a complete parts inventory.

By the way, when my car died in Palm Springs, I had it towed to a dealer in Cathedral City, near you -- after three weeks of fairly justified effort, they got the car running, but all in all, did a poor job -- broke the windshield (and replaced it) without telling me, mis-installed the rear-view mirror in the process, and broke the returns on the glove compartment door. (and repeatedly misrepresented to me the rental car allowance). My regular mechanic fixed the remaining problems quickly without any hassel -- but you gotta know who is good and who is bad out there -- and when the car breaks down far from home, you may be at the mercy of the proverbial "worst case" Lincoln mechanic.

This is probably the case with any car. But wouldn't it be great if Lincoln got a handle on the problem. That is why having a Jim Rogers available made owning the LS so positive.

desertguy

You are so right. JR and all the other team members I met at Mania I really added to the pleasure of owning the LS. Most all of them posted on the Edmunds board too. My dealer is right on the 10 fwy on the edge of Palm Desert and Indio. It is a pity they didn't tow you there. Very competent mechanics. (At least they used to be if the same guys are there).

nvbanker

Wow, competent mechanics, you say? I like my dealer, and they treat me very well, but competent mechanics is NOT the main reason why, mostly because I really haven't encountered any at my dealership. Nice guys, but more often than not, they don't fix the car, but do damage the car in the process of not fixing it. Competent mechanics would be a delightful experience!

crazybabydoc

The local Linc dealer talked my wife into test driving a '00 with Sport/Convenience package over the weekend with 32K on the odo. Edmunds.com gives a price of $20.3 and MSN (KBB) says $20.6. The dealer's price is $22.9 plus he's giving us $1500 more for her trade than they offered last year. What do the sages of Town Hall think about it? Should a lease return with only 32K and a birthday of 5/00 raise a lot of red flags?

slunar

Last Friday CNBC ran a segment on car Lemon Laws.

They took 2 phone calls and both calls were from Nissian owners.

The first caller said his Nissian randomly locks the car and it had locked in and him out of the car several times. After 4 attempts by his dealer to fix it, he still has the locking problem. The caller also said that the last time he was at his dealer he found out that there were 3 more Nissians sitting on his dealer's lot with the exact same problem, the dealer couldn't fix those cars either and Nissian had been of little help to the dealer or customers.

The 2nd caller said that his new Maxima had a significant vibration at highway speeds. The dealer made 1 attempt to fix it by balancing the tires, but succeeded in only making the vibration worse. The dealer told him that there was nothing else they could do, so he called Nissian. Nissian told him that vibrations at highway speed "were commercially acceptable" and they "didn't warranty the tires anyway" and go to a tire dealer to see if there was a problem with the tires.

I had only 1 problem with my 2000 LS-8 and unfortunately my dealer was not able to fix it, but unlike the above examples I can say that Lincoln went out of their way to keep me a satisfied customer.

sawmill

My wife's 2003 LS-6 has about 1500 miles, so I checked out open-throtle acceleration compared to my LS-8.

No big sup rise - the 8 obviously has more oomph than the 6. However, the 6 seems more than enough for daily driving and cruising. I noticed that the auto tranny shifts right at red line -- something I don't think the V-8 does.

Now that I read a bit more about the differences, I can notice that the steering in the 2003 is lighter, with a bit less road feel, than the 2000 LS. However, I didn't notice it until after I knew about the difference3.

The brake feel is very noticeably different - the 2000 needs a lot more pressure -- always did -- than the newer LS. All in all, these two "refinements" confirm I made the right choice talking my wife out of buying an Infinity.

The suspension, of course, is what I like most about the LS, and that feels the same. And as mentioned earlier, the 2003 transmission is noticeably smoother than the 2000 version -- even with the reflash and after 3.5 years of tranny training.

The 2003 doesn't have advancetrac, as my 2000. Accelerating up a bumpy freeway on-ramp, the stabilitrack kicked in on the LS-6 -- but unlike the advancetrak, there was no noticable loss of engine power. I only knew it was activated because of the blinking light.

And I have to admit, (forgiving the cheap plastic "nickel" finish) I really like the LS 6 interior better than the wood (wud) and black 2000 LS 8 interior.

The radio in the 2003 is way, way, sub-par. Even my wife notices. The 2000 audiophoile system in the LS8, for me at least, is terrific, without any upgrades.

(desert guy -- I broke down in Palm Desert -- had a choice of yours near Indio or the one in Cathedral City -- both were about equal distance from me, guess I picked the wrong one)

nvbanker

Wud, I like that, Sawmill...... Now, what's this about the cheap stereo? I thought the 2003 had THX????? What's the deal?

sawmill

The base model comes with an in-dash single-cd player, and radio with digital messaging but no dsp. As far as I can tell, there are two speakers in the front - in the doors, and two in the rear - in the doors.

There are no speakers on each side of the center console, and no speakers on the rear shelf.

I'm sure those locations are wired, so it won't be a problem to upgrade the system -- but it is a bit suprising how poor a modern car stereo can sound -- or maybe my ears have been spoiled by the great system in the LS8. I know some on the board who replaced those speakers in the audiophile system without any problem, but I have had no complaints.

The THX system only comes with the navigation system, because it needs the lcd touch-screen to operate. Someday I hope to hear one play in comparison with the audiophile system.

carjim

The August 11 issue of AUTOMOTIVE NEWS, page 28: "2006, LS replaced or redesigned." Just today I saw another reference in a new ROAD & TRACK at a dealership that said the LS may be discontinued or put on a different platform. I'm wary of these kind of predictions. Yet they are causing me some concern because I have seen what damage Ford can do to a marque.
You remember when Ford considered badging the front wheel Probe as a Mustang? Can anyone offer some assurances?