Lincoln LS

desertguy

My wife has a 2000 Mercury Cougar which has a message center and it was less than $20,000. Since it is part of the L/M family I assume they know these cars are out there. It does mpg, miles til fill up average speed, outside temp, etc. If it wasn't there, I wouldn't miss it much.

stanny1

My 2000 has no message center but does have the Convenience Package. It also does not have Traction Control and after LS Mania, I'm glad it doesn't. Simple is beautiful.

azlels

Hey I noticed that the wavy problem mentioned several days ago seem to be universal on all LS'.
What I noticed in rereading those is that it seems to be consistently worse on the drivers side. Makes me wonder if the person or team working on that side is a little blind. And why doesnt Lincoln inspection catch this? After having Audi, Q45, Lexis 400, 528 I honestly believe the LS compares favorably. But this kind of sloppy finishing is the main reason American cars just will never catch up it seems. I checked 12 different 2001 at the dealer and they all had the problem with many worse than mine. It will be interesting to see if the 2002 models still have this bad metal work.

I feel Lincoln should refinish these pillars but I would rather live with them than take the chance of having a great paint job ruined.

azlels

Again the lack of this message center on the v6 is really sort of funny. This whole deal probably costs Lincoln all of $8 to put in. I am sure the wiring harness has all the hookups in place and the sensors are already there for the computer. Every one of the last 6 cars have had a message center. But I admit they are not very useful to me. Not usually very accurate on MPG etc. Just nice to have.

ngamble

Are rear axle ratios posted anywhere on the exterior of the LS differential?

slunar

There is a metal tag on the differential case that has the ratio stamped in it.

slunar

There are now 13 states that get CA emissions equipment, AZ, CA, CT, MA, ME, NH, NJ, NV, NY, OR, PA, RI & VT. Some of the states require it others get it as border states to those that do. Another facet of the CA law, which should get your blood boiling, is that government cars (state , local & fed.) don't have to have to meet the CA emissions requirements!

In the case of the LS, since it is a low emissions vehicle, I don't belive there is actually a CA version of the engine. I think that the CA option just gives the proper certification and may have an extended emissions equipment (100K ??) warranty. Can someone from Lincoln confirm?

slunar

The lack of the message center on the V6 had some (but not a lot) of influence in buying a V8. IMHO is another sign of incompetence in the marking department, the old position products to compete or not compete with yourself mentality while the competition blind sides you (Do I feel someone thinking VVT on the Jag while they read this?). There is no excuse for not having the message center in the V6 other than stupidity in the marketing department. Wouldn't you like to have been in the meetings when the decisions were made to keep the message center off the V6 and to cripple the HP & torque for the LS? Excuse me for ranting, but after 20 years with a fortune 30 company I know all too well how dumb decisions are made.

azlels

For many years I have been in such marketing meetings. It is always amazing to me how smart individuals can make such dumb decisions as a group.

stanny1

"Groupthink" is the name for a phenomena that occurs when attendees at meetings have great ideas but are afraid to voice them in a group setting. A majority of members of the group may have the same idea but not knowing the level of support for such idea or opinion, it never gets introduced. Especially if you have a "bully" leader type that you have to prejudge as to their opinion. The politics of corporations led me to be self-employed. Every corporate conference table should have an electronic "blind" voting console at every seat for decision making. You could even make "no confidence" votes for the department heads and overzealous bean counters. In automobiles, the best concepts have always come from true enthusiasts. Where would Lockheed be without Kelly Johnson (SR-71,etc).

gkarg

I drive a 92 Continental with message center and an LS V6 Sport w/out message center. My 94 Conti also had message center, and by 75,000 miles began emitting a warning about low oil pressure which became more frequent, beeps about "Check DCL", beeps about this and that when NOTHING was wrong... frankly... another reason I opted for the V6 was the omission of any source of "BEEPING!"

It is just down right embarrassing to have a car load of people asking what is going on - when your car beeps for no apparent reason.

We've since discovered a method of stopping the "low oil pressure" beeping in the Continentals, simply make a fist and slam the dash above the oil gauge on the message center and presto... it quits. Hope you don't have to do that to your V8 LS's (that's embarrassing, too.)

fantom

I can just see the marketing meeting at Lincoln:

"O.K., we've got this new V8 engine with lots of overhead R&D costs that we're going to have to pass on to the consumer. How can we do it?"

"Well, let's make it unconvenient for potential V6 buyers by not giving them the, big deal , message center and charging them around
$800 bucks for a couple of options we'll call a Convenience Package".

"Oh good, and we can manipulate the MPG tests to make it look like the V6 and V8 are almost the same. Plus we can influence the automobile writers who are beholding to us to sing the praises of the V8, and don't forget all those car magazines that we pay big advertising bucks-they can do us a favor by pushing the V8".

"Great!!!, Now we can charge $3,750 more, at MSRP, for the V8, make lots more profit, and not even have to split it with our dealers!"

BRILLIANT MARKETING, but could that have really happened?

stanny1

Well, team, the first test article on the long awaited Manual IS300 was in Autoweek Online. Verrry interesting. It's got a five-speed not a 6 speed. But it has an overdrive fifth which we need. So I don't think it's a Getrag. The little Lexi also has a "lower" final drive ratio (3.727 manual vs. 3.909 auto) but "higher" ratios in first and fifth than the automatic (more "overdrive" in fifth than the automatic). It also has a 6200 rpm redline and a Torsen limited slip differential. Autoweek says the new Manual is "about as nice a set-up as any young racer could ask for". Price is about 35k so watch out 3 series. 0-60 is a claimed 6.8 seconds.
My guess is that Toyota brought out from retirement their excellent W58 five-speed overdrive Manual that was used from 1982-1990 or so in the Supra and Cressida. If it is a new five-speed overdrive from Getrag, pray it could fit the LS Manual. But I doubt it's a Getrag. Hats off to Toyota if they did indeed build a new Manual - that's a leap of faith in the Manual market. I feel the Manual IS300 will have a sizeable market share with their demographics - it's just too small a car for my family. Out

jackjt

Worked a number of years for a Fortune 100 Company and a good deal of that time was in interaction with various marketing groups. After a number of years "fighting" them, I coined the phrase "Marketing Ding Dongs" which pretty much says it all:-)

stanny1

I think it would be so easy to first, identify your target market, and second, build a car for it. When you look at some cars, like the LS Manual, you wonder if the target moved or was just missed. Or who moved the barrel when the trigger was pulled. Maybe it was designed by committee - one accountant and one "marketing" guy with a white belt, white shoes and a pink sportcoat. I know it's not that bad - I drive one!
Actually that's the committee for the Town Car.

giowa

Sorry about being pedantic, but because I've previously accused portions of this group of behaving like "groupthinkers" and in the interests of technical accuracy thought I'd comment on "groupthink".

Word coined by Irving L. Janis in his 1972 book titled "Victims of Groupthink". I remember reading it in my undergraduate psychology days. Have it boxed up somewhere. Really read it to learn what he had to say about the Kennedy Administration's Bay of Pigs fiasco in 1961, Janis' "classic case" of groupthink. My old Social Psych textbook, Social Psychology, 4th edition, Jonathan Freedman, 1981, defines the term as the process by which "a seemingly reasonable and intelligent group of people come to a decision that in retrospect is obviously a serious mistake." Usually occurs in highly cohesive groups, which have a very high opinion of themself, want to maintain internal cohesion, and desire unanimity in decision-making; that are able to seal themselves off from outside opinion; and which have a strong, dynamic leader. Process happens when the strong leader presents a proposal and argues for it strongly. Potential dissenters don't bring forth their objections because they are both afraid of being rejected in front of the group and value maintaining high group morale.

A related phenomenon was called the "Amarillo Effect". Process by which a group ends up making a terrible decision, one which no one in the group wanted to make, because each member is more concerned about pleasing other members over their own interest. No one wants to appear selfish and each presumes that the others want to do something different when in fact each is happy with the way things are.

babicka

The only reason that LM and LS came out with a V6 and manual is because of the LM marketing and design team's focus on European market. Remember LS was going to be the Lincoln's comeback to Europe! With prices in Europe of $4.00 dollars per gallon or more the V6 and a manual shift made a lot of sense for that market.

As far as the computer that is a mystery/stupidity. I never understood why many functions were removed from the LS V8 M-center that were standard on the Mark7+8 models. The computer is there all the sensor are there for calculating all the functions so the secret is software code. Why not provide more code
and make those functions available to those that would want them is just silly marketing I guess!

ezaircon4jc

Just got back from vacation. More on that latter, I did encounter a "problem" with my LS. At anything over 100 a SERIOUS whine/noise is emitted from the passanger seat, head rest area. Has anyone heard of this problem and is there a fix?

Colorado has some GREAT LS roads. My punny, underpowered V6 climbed I70 just fine loaded down. 4th most of the time and when I downshifted to 3rd, hold on! Not bad at nearly 12k ft! The Borla and airbox modification must surely have something to do with this! My Sable under the same conditions could barely accelerate in 3rd and floored. What a great 3000 mile trip. For you MPG wonks, best 25.5, worst 23, all freeway at 85ish (see question above about whine). I got 20 driving around Breckenridge/Idaho Springs/Georgetown and Golden. I think this is pretty good considering the altitude and the position of my left foot!

Now I've got some serious cleaning to do!

Mike

alphanstein

Nope, unfortunately, I have not had that problem yet. But, unlike you, I am not married with children. I think the whine develops after kids. So for the fix...don't think there is one, it's an irreversible effect. Sorry, it just gets worse, so enjoy it while you can.

slunar

Since the first day I looked at the LS I kept getting the feeling the certain features were purposely left off of the LS because it was positioned below the Continental. Things such as the multi-level heated seats, less HP & torque, message center, no navigation system, etc. Since the MSRP of the LS is less than the Continental the LS could not have all of the Conti's bells & whisles. This thinking forgets that the Continental appeals to a completely different buyer and that discounted street price of the Continental, with the rebates required to get them out the door, is less than the LS. I put up with this sort of internally focused marketing thinking for far too many years. At my old employer the base product would be priced near the competition but would be missing some key features that 99% of the customers wanted. Of course once those key features were optioned back in, or you tried to sell the bigger, better, faster model that was on par with the competition, our pricing became way out of line.

jnowski

I just finished a 150+ mile freeway jaunt in light to moderate traffic. At cruising speeds in the 60 to 80+ MPH range, it was hard to tell that there was a Borla performance exhaust system installed on my 2000 V6 manual. Even under moderate to brisk acceleration at those speeds the sound level rose to only slightly more than the stock system. I'm very pleased with this result as any future long distance cruising (at sane speeds) will be unmarred by an obtrusive exhaust drone.

Almost forgot, all windows up, radio and climate control off.

ezaircon4jc

After 3k+ The sound is very nice. As jnowski says, at steady 60-80 you forget that it is there. There is a "drone" at a steady 50, but it isn't unpleasent. Also, be careful on steep or severe driveways. I dragged the resonator a couple of times on vacation, YIKES! It appears that there isn't any damage. I will get under and see tomorrow. That long wheel base will bite you if you're not careful. Coming in at an angle really helps!

Now for another LS experience. While in Colorado we drove up to Pikes Peak. All 14 thousand plus feet of it. That is one fun road! I didn't see much scenery as I was busy driving. The wife tells me that the view on the way up was incredible. Even though the last 12 miles is hard packed dirt and small gravel, it is worth the drive. I found no rock damage (BTW, I do have the splash guards). I came down in 1st at a pretty constant 20mph. There is a brake checkpoint half way down. A ranger is there with a temperature gun. 300 or less, keep going. Over 300 and you have to wait 20 minutes to cool the brakes down. As I didn't use the brakes much, mine registered a cool 105. Of the three of us that were there, I was the only one with cool enough brakes.

As to trunk space, I crammed in 2 hard sided suitcases (1970's vintage), a garment bag, 2 medium sized gym type bags, a camera bag, a 48 cassette case, 2 tupperware containers with laundry detergent, a small bottle of Downey, window cleaner, a roll of paper towels and a bunch of other stuff. I still had room for souvenirs and assorted junk. A couple of times I did have to maneuver around the ITH's, but it wasn't a problem.

The seats are MARVELOUS! The first night our bed was a wreck! I couldn't wait to get back into my LS and get comfortable! We drove just over 700 miles in 10 hours 40 minutes with 2 gas stops and a break for lunch. Those of you familiar with In-N-Out know how long that can take!

Anyway it was a great trip and my LS performed flawlessly! This car is a road burner. And when you get there, you are rested and want to drive even more! Lincoln (JR, and congrates by the way!!), you did a fantastic job! Make the LS better, not "cheaper."

cdnpinhead

Michael,

Your adventures in CO sound much like mine last Fall. I went up Mt. Evans as opposed to Pikes Peak, which is nice 'cause it's all paved. LS did great. Another of the nice features of a manual is the ability to choose appropriate gearing for descending grades. It's interesting in mountain country to see who looks like they've actually been there before -- the brake lights hardly ever come on, regardless of steepness.

I had an odd noise on that trip coming through Nevada that I identified as coming from the right side of the car, also at speeds above 100. Slow down and it went away, speed up and it came back. Turned out to be the little air dam installed in front of the rear wheels. One of the screws had been left off, or fell out, and the plastic piece was being forced back so that it lightly contacted the tire. Have a look. It's easy to fix.

ezaircon4jc

Mine only happens when a certain female is occuping the seat. When I'm alone there is no whine.

I've been using my auto like a manual almost from day one. I miss the feel of the shift pattern but at least I can select the gear that I want.

leadfoot4

Since I have the V-8 LS, I do have the message center. It's a cute little thing, and some of the data that's contained therein is useful. But as I commented once before, how can L-M build a sedan for the "enthusiast" and not include an oil pressure gauge ?? Even the Chevy Caprice that preceeded the LS had a water temp gauge with numbers, an oil pressure gauge, and a volt meter.
The radio in the LS has a very nice digital clock, however, so in case the engine suddenly develops a problem with the oiling system, at least I'll know what time it happened.

azlels

You are right about the lack of an oil pressure gauge and volt meter. Especially given that the sensors are already there and these meters probably only cost $2 each. It may be the message system is actually in the LS6 but they just disconnected is or part of it. Like computer chips they slow the fast ones down by snipping a connection or two.

akirby

One thing to remember here is that not everything that gets left off the car was done on purpose or for marketing reasons. These teams have a limited amount of time and resources to bring a product to market. Sometimes you have to make choices about which features you put in and what has to wait. Just think about how much time was taken up by using a totally new, untested platform including the chassis, engines and transmission AND the fact that they did so much performance testing and tuning of the handling with F1 drivers and engineers. Sometimes you simply run out of time and/or resources (or R&D money) and you can't add a certain feature, even though it seems like a no-brainer. Even little changes like a few lines of software have to be written, designed and tested. There can also be hidden dependencies that we wouldn't be aware of (like feature X is simple and cheap but requires some other feature that is costly or isn't ready yet).

I'm not saying that this is the reason for the message center omission in the V6. It could very well be a marketing decision. But don't think every decision like that is based strictly on brand positioning.

Remember how we all thought the tranny dipstick tube was left out on purpose due to some great new tranny technology? Only to find out that they simply didn't have room for it and were forced to leave it out.

Given that they got all the major things right with the first generation LS (suspension, seats, basic engines, manual tranny, selectshift, overall styling, luxury features, etc.) then they should have a lot more time to spend sweating the details like gauges, consoles, engine power tweaks, etc. I think we'll see the first round of those improvements in 2003 and the entire package in 2005. That would be the one to judge by.

azlels

leadfoot4

On one hand, akirby, I agree with you that a new platform has a lot of inital "up front" development and tooling costs. Because of that, a number of things that the design team feels are somewhat important, but not essential, will get left out for economy reasons.
What I have observed happening, however, is when the next set of engineers are given the task to upgrade/refresh the product, the "bean counters" generally get to heavily influence the decisions regarding the "wish list" of those engineers. The rationale then becomes, "The customer has lived without the oil pressure gauge, or whatever else, for this long, and we still sold X thousand of them....."
I'm not just referring to the LS when I say that, because I work for a large manufacturing company, and I've heard those arguments when we want to upgrade some of our own manufacturing equipment.
Also, I'm not taking any personal potshots at anyone when I say this, because it seems to happen in a lot of different products. IMHO, we, as a group, seem to be more of the type of enthusiasts that would notice the omission of such things.

txlaker

00 LS8 Sport 20K miles - love the car, dealer working on resolve minor trim issues and a nagging brake noise, noticed that the car rocks if you rev to 2900 ram in park - dealer says it's normal...? any comments?

a

mkovalsk

There is an RPM limiter in park and neutral. It is to protect the transmission from high RPM engagements.

Mark

karzz

The July 23rd edition of the trade journal Automotive News has a page 4 article on Jim Rogers' promotion, complete with a smiling mug shot of JR. The article is titled "Coach Rogers will seek efficiencies at Premier". Sorry but I can not find a link to the article.

The article starts "The Premier Automotive Group finally has a coach." Thats what Vic Doolan, executive director of the Premier Group considers Jim Rogers. Doolan last week named Rogers, 50, to the new position of marketing strategy manager for the group."........

karzz

Seems that Infiniti's big horsepower claims on they boast for the new Q45 may just be a lot of hype. They have stopped advertising their 0-60 times because no one has ever been able to even get close to the advertised claim.

http://www.detnews.com/2001/autos/0107/26/a01-254941.htm

karzz

The July 30th AutoWeek indicates that BMW has doubled the number of vehicles affected by the fire-related recall the company announced previously. The 2001 5 Series is now included in the recall. According to the article, it seems BMW kept building the defective vehicles for "more than two months after the company initially learned of the potential defect."

reneleblanc

When I was first getting into cars and motorcycles, during the early '50s we had a lot of reason to be concerned about oil pressure, and how it varied under different driving conditions. Also, the old DC generators and their unreliable voltage regulators were always something to watch for aberations that might be a harbinger of some future problem.

Today, I'm not convinced these instruments are likely to bring us much useful information. I think today's engines and oil systems are extremely stable, and an oil pressure gauge would be a really boring thing to watch. I think the same is true for the alternator output voltage. The nature of the failures are most likely to be such that if they're working, they're working fine. If they're not working, then a nice red light is probably all the input I need.

giowa

Sure, maybe we don't completely "need" a more comprehensive instrument cluster (i.e., one with additional gauges), but I, for one, know that I "want" more gauges. I have never liked idiot warning lights in a performance-oriented vehicle. I remember the time when the base model of almost any Detroit car came with a minimal cluster but you could always order the optional cluster. I'm always sad when I see a 30-year old plus car, peek into the windows to see if it has a manual tranny and full gauge package, only to find out it has the base cluster.

If I remember right, the lowly Mustang has a 6-gauge cluster. My '97 Camaro V-6 came standard with a 6-gauge cluster. I "enjoyed" having it and watching the gauges. It looked better and it fit the way the car was marketed. Thinking that the Bonneville SSEi and some Cadillacs have very comprehensive clusters. If they can, then so should the LS. Even if it comes only with the Sport Package. I mean, what is a true Sport Pkg if it doesn't get you a complete instrument cluster?

akirby

I agree. That's one problem when the vehicle you buy has such strong demand relative to production capacity. I think that's the problem with the explorer - they sell too many (400K+ every year IIRC). Having that many vehicles on the road makes it much more expensive for Ford to do any recalls due to the number of vehicles affected. I for one am glad that Lincoln "only" sells 60K LS per year. The bean counters are more likely to allow a recall on the LS than the explorer (non safety related of course) simply because it costs so much less. And frankly, if I were Ford and I was selling as many copies of vehicle X as I could make, I probably wouldn't go out of my way to spend a lot of money changing it. That's where competition really helps.

I've also always liked gauges (demanded them in fact) but now I think I agree with Renee. Even if Ford put an oil pressue gauge in like they use on the ranger, explorer and expedition (and others I'm sure but these are the ones I know about for sure) it would be a binary position. They insert a part that measures the analog pressure sensor and if it's above a certain minimum value then it outputs a constant voltage that puts the gauge in the normal range. If it falls below that minimum then the voltage drops to 0 and the gauge reads no pressure at all. So it's basically a gauge that acts just like an idiot light. My speculation is that Ford got lots of reports from customers complaining about normal fluctuations in pressure or differences in pressure between two vehicles so they eliminated the source of the complaints. I can think of no other explanation for making an analog sensor and gauge behave that way.

xwray

My current project is playing around with the ODBII system so I'll be smart enough to use and understand it if something breaks. I'm using an IBM 360 ThinkPad I bought off ebay and Alex Pepper's ODBII Vehicle Explorer software and protocol converter (hooks to serial port). The nice thing about this arrangement is that you can actually "log into" the various computer systems and look at them one at a time or you can look at the entire corporate bus at once. One feature of the software is that it has a page with (running from memory here) 2 large "analog" gauges and 3 small "analog" gauges that you can assign to any parameter to that the main CPU puts out on the OBDII link. You could, for instance, assign oil pressure, voltage, temperature, whatever to those gauges and the needle would track the inputs in calibrated units. So, I says to myself, self, I wonder if I could interface my laptop to a small external display that I could somehow "build into" the cockpit somewhere...instant gauge nirvana. So, I have a semi long term project to do just that.

Perhaps I need a life...

lateralg

Or tie to a Palm Pilot type device.

Sounds like you've got a life.

stanny1

As you guys know, I have a 2000 LSm. But I am curious about the transmission that will be in the 5 speed manual IS300. Why? Well, no manufacturer has designed its own manual transmission for cars, especially RWD cars for years. Even Ford has been having problems designing a new truck manual. Perhaps it's a lost art and the gearhead engineers have all died off. Or they all work for Tremec or Getrag.
Well, none of the Lexus fans know a thing. They have no factory contacts like Scooter to E-mail.
The IS300 forum guys are guessing it's a new Toyota design or a Getrag six-speed with the sixth gear removed. Like pigs fly. Unless it's a Samarai Surprise, I think it's a recycled Toyota W58 overdrive five-speed from 1982 to 1992 as used in the Supra and Cressida. My only doubt about this is that the W58 is fairly large compared to the Getrag 220, but it was used before with essentially the same engine as in the IS300 with the Manual SC300 coupe from the early
90s. This tranny is bulletproof to 650hp.
So what does this mean to LS Manual owners. If this new Manual is instead a Getrag unit, it will represent a change in Getrag philosophy to overdrive fifth gears. Getrag used to make an overdrive five-speed. We know the IS300 Manual is a five speed and it has an overdrive fifth. If it is a Getrag 220 series unit, it may bolt-in to our Lincolns. Or we may be able to put the overdrive section in our trannys. This would solve big problems in LS Manual gearing.
I will keep you few fellow LS Manual owners informed. (The few,the proud and the brave)

giowa

Keep up the good work! Please let us know what you find out. Would be interesting to see how many of the top 10 American and European manufacturers still independently design and manufacture their own manual trannys.

Seems like specialist companies like Getrag et al are doing all the work. I'd be a bit surprised if the IS300 is using a Toyota design. But not too surprised. Thinking they likely kept it in production in Japan or Europe or elsewhere to meet needs of all the other markets (read everywhere but North America) where buyers haven't lost the good sense to buy and drive manuals. Heck, Asian and European minivans and SUVs come with manuals across all or most engine options!!! And they tend to get more engine options (size, configuration, type-diesel/gas, etc.).

txlaker

Thanks Mark for the info on the limiter!
Anyone have any comments on brake noise?

al

rayainsw

Mark, Jim R. and the trans. software group -
I gather that the official title of Mark's group is something like:
"transmission calibration section for the 5R55N transmission "
At any rate, I was finally able to schedule the latest re-flash (the 01-01-05 missed my November 2000 build V8 Sport calibration) for the LS's trans.
GREAT JOB! (Please pardon the shouting...)
Everything I have tried in SST mode (in the 50 miles or so that I have driven today) works better than it has since I bought the car - over 26,000 miles ago. In particular, the 5-4 and 4-3 manual downshifts are nearly seamless. And the automatic downshifts from 4th or 5th as the vehicle comes to a stop are MUCH less noticeable.
Again - great job, Mark and your crew.
Kudos also to Jim R. and the Lincoln group for going through the process (not trivial, it seems in FoMoCo) to bring this Y2001 enhancement out in a way that allows owners of last year's models to enjoy the updates.
Thanks,
- Ray
Who now thinks the trans. shifts are as good as they are going to get - until the hardware is changed...

stanny1

Good Point. The IS300 Manual will probably be sold in Eurasia, and those numbers would help
justify an investment in new transmission design. But I'm sure we're talking about $$$millions. With the Volvo and Jag being the Premier Group's
export choice, and the LS being "for domestic consumption only", there won't be any incentive for LM to invest in the Manual. It could even stagnate and go away. Let's hope the new IS300 tranny is a Getrag and that LM can buy this overdrive unit at nearly the same cost as the 221 and it has the same faceplate as the 221 as well.

nosho

The rev limit looks to be part of the reason for less than spectacular
0-60 times. Limiting launching rpm to less than 3000 costs about
0.3 seconds. The first gear ratio "costs" alot more though -
approximately 0.7 seconds.

lkuos

Are the revs supposed to also be limited in drive with the brake applied? I have tried to power brake and was not able to get my rpms above 3,000. Just wondering if that is normal too. Can anybody with a V6 excluding manuals lay rubber on the ground?

scottc8

60-100 and beyond is where the fun is with this car. Passing on two-lane highways is a real kick, especially if there's a guy behind me who's been tailgating and pulls out to pass at the same time. Most cars get real small, real fast, in the rear view mirror. And if there are twisties up ahead, he's gone for good. It's hard to leave rubber on the road with the LS. And taking 35mph curves at 80+, that's a GOOD thing.:)

nosho

Cornering is certainly the LS's forte. But plenty of people on this forum have commented on how the LS compares to competitors in the 0-60 rating. The rev limit helps to explain this disparity with the competition.

rev Limiter: I recall at an LS demo being told not to try revving the engine with the brake on (while in gear) as the engine control would shut the engine down. I suppose that translates to a rev limit.

Just for info:
If launching at <3000rpm gives 0-60 of 7.4S then launching at 4000 is 7.1S.

Better still, make first gear a 4.4 ratio and get a 0-60 time of 6.8S even when
launching at <3000rpm.

giowa

Yes, 50-70 mph or 60-80 or beyond is critical to being able to really enjoy a sport sedan. What's the point if you can't quickly, easily, and comfortably pass someone on 2-lane road. Or if you are loaded down with passengers and luggage. These are areas where the LS8 shines. (Was driving my mom's LS6 base auto last night. Three adults, two kids, and luggage. Pretty anemic low and mid-range response. Too much weight for too little engine. But that isn't an issue for my 69-yr-old mom who is normally in car by herself.)

And of course handling and ride are also critical. But having both power and handling is where cars really shine. And that is what makes the LS8 Sport superior to LS6 Sport auto. The former has both handling and acceleration; the latter, handling.

Finally crawled under both her LS6 auto and my LS8 Sport to see what the little metal plate says regarding final drive ratio. Her May '99 build date shows 3.58. My Sept. '99 build date shows 3.31. Wonder if anyone on this board has a real early build '00 LS with either the 3.31 ratio for LS6 manual or 3.58 for LS8 Sport?

Thinking about Infiniti's current problems with reported 0-60 time for new Q45. Wondering if Lincoln pulled off a small scam. Build some very early production cars in small numbers with the "hotter" final drive ratios, let the car magazines test using these "trick" cars, and then quietly and quickly change over to "milder" final drive ratios. That way the initially reported acceleration times are both accurate, for those cars with the "hotter" ratios, but then the EPA will base its CAFE numbers off the more fuel efficient and much great produced later builds using the "mild" ratios? Has anyone seen any published test data for '01 LS? All the articles I have were for either early build '00s or mid-year '00s.

slunar

I wonder if the Autoweek Autofile LS-8 review (Nov 29, 1999 issue) was really a 3.31. The article lists 3.58 as the rear end but the 0-60 is 8.37 sec. much slower than other reviews. The time frame of the A/W test was after the rear end changed. It also would be interesting to get a 0-60 time with the latest re-flash. The sloppy 2-3 shift with the older software seems to cost a good .2 sec. 2-3 shift points should be about 55 MPH with a 3.58 rear & 59 MPH with a 3.31. Also, I wonder how burning real gas verses oxygenated gas effects the acceleration times. Although I agree with the previous posts that 0-60 times are not that important to me, I am very suspicious about the rear end ratio change since it occurred after the cars were given to the car rags and the LS was introduced late enough in the year so its 30,000 units would not have a lot of effect on the year 1999 CAFE of the couple million cars Ford sells a year. I am especially suspicious of the change in the V6 manual ratio as so few manuals were expected to be sold (initially estimated at ~4000 / year) that the V6 manual even at 23 MPG highway (3.31 rear end) would have a negligible effect on Ford's CAFE, especially with actual sales probably not much more than 1500 / year. In addition since only the 6M uses the 3.07 rear end is sure would have been a lot simpler and lower cost to use 3.31 rear ends in the 6M. As Stanny said with a 1:1 5th ratio, a 3.31 rear end manual is not practical, so give the ringers to the rags and then put into production what was intended all along (3.07). If Ford was so concerned about CAFE why wouldn't they try to sell more V6 auto. LS's'? We will have confirmation of foul play if the 3.58 rear end in the 2002 T-Bird mysteriously changes to 3.31 in a couple of months!