Mazda Protegé

mdaffron

Go compare specs at TireRack. Go compare user ratings. Compare mileage warranties, treadwear ratings and UTQG ratings. And read Tire-Rack's test of the DunLOP against two other competitors. Yours hasn't been tested so there's no data to comment on there.

You seem to be overstepping a line here, buddy. I can't tell if you're serious or not. If you are threatening me about coming down to Richmond, I hope you're really prepared.

I have my shirtsleeves rolled up and my transmission in first. Any time, buddy ... any time. RAIN or shine. Straight or curved.

But I don't have any control over the deer. ;-)

Meade

meinrad

There might be some ear biting! I have to say I'm appalled at this shameless promotion just to pump up the pay-per-view sales.

Even so, I'll probably plunk down my $49.95 for what looks to be a pretty good battle.

th83

I haven't been here in about a week and the first several posts that I read contain arguements about which Pro engine is better. I think it is silly that this arguement has lasted this long. I can understand that the 1.8 has more eagerness to rev and comes on strong higher in the rev band but I wouldn't call it superior to the 2.0. If the 1.8 is so special, why does it take 4 seconds longer(30.3 1.8 and 26.2 2.0) for a '00 Pro ES 5-speed to reach 100mph than the new, 240lb-heavier Pro 5 5-speed? The 1.8 even has shorter gearing. What is so superior about an engine that doesn't really perform all that well. The 2.0 may not sound as good and may not rev as willingly but, it is stronger, especially at low revs. Both are good engines and some may like the 1.8's happier nature while others may prefer the 2.0's low-end power. It's all a matter of opinion. But I think it is silly to argue/fight about something like that. It isn't going to accomplish anything.

mdaffron

Just keep one thing in mind. The "1.8" is really 1,839cc. The "2.0" is actually 1,991cc. So really the 2.0 only has a 152cc advantage over the 1.8 -- not 200cc.

And by the way, where did you get those specs on 0-100? Both from the same reviewer, I trust? Using the same track and test equipment, on the same day with the same weather and track conditions? And why 0-100? How did the more conventional 0-60 times compare?

Meade

newcar31

4 seconds is a big difference. I don't think track conditions, weather etc. would affect a time by 4 seconds.

jstandefer

Yeah, where did you get those 0-100mph times? At those engine speeds, the 1.8L is pumping out more torque and more horsepower plus it has a lighter load. Not to mention, it sounds better doing it! ;-)

And, is that a Protege5 you are quoting times from? If it is, then I know the data is wrong or screwed up. The Protege5, as cool as it is, can barely beat a '99 DX with the 1.6L! Oh, and BTW, the '02 Pro5 is 82 lbs heavier than the '02 Pro ES which is 97 lbs heavier than the '99 ES.

Check out the long discussion we had about the two engines in the Protege5 board. Comparing acutal dyno results, the two engines put just about the same amount of horsepower and torque to the wheels. In most cases, the 1.8L actually put down more hp to the wheels.

pjd58

Unfortunately, the Mazda 6 will be mostly a Ford product, with Mazda engineering and design. I believe the 6 will be built in Flat Rock, MI, the old 626 plant. When I purchase a Mazda, I want a Japanese product. Although, my Wife's Ford Durtec engine in her 01 MPV is practically bulletproof.

My 01 LX 2.0 has plenty of power and can keep up the any 1.8 Protege. The extra weight in the 01(100 lbs) offsets the 2.0 engine. The 00 & 01 are very similar in power and performance, JMO.

Pjd58(Pete)

dsm6

Both are pretty mediocre, IMO. Arguing which one is more mediocre is like asking whether you'd like to date Rosanne Arnold or Kathy Kinney. ;-)

Besides, one source says low end torque is "about the same" for each, while another source says the 2.0 has about 10% more torque at low rpm. As for sound, that's completely subjective, as is seat of the pants feel. I think some of our sources might be a bit biased. ;-)

IMO, the car is about the suspension, the brakes, the steering, not the engine. BTW, when the switch was made to the 2.0 in the ES in '01, the suspension was also reinforced and the steering rack stiffened to give the car better handling and road feel.

chikoo

that a mazda product is MORE about SEAT OF THE PANTS feel than anything else. Any other GOOD car in the same category beats the Pro if you compare numbers.
eg.
HP/Torque? Hyundai/Corolla has more.
Slalom? Hyundai has better numbers, as does the Matrix
Engine tech? Civic/Corolla is better -thanks to VTEC/VVTI
Top Speed? Not the Pro.

So what is better about the Pro?
Seat of the pants feel is better.

When u drive the Pro, you FEEL better.

dsm6

Agreed. There is a balanced, connected, stable feel to the way the Pro handles both in steering and braking. It seems to make up for a lack of seat of the pants feel in the way it accelerates for many drivers, myself included. That, and the way the seat of my pants feels with more money in my wallet.

maltb

I think I will be there. Still trying to wrangle some goods. Do you mind if I bring a Miata and not a Protege? I'm having way too much fun with 1.8 liters, six forward gears and LSD at the moment to want to give it up for a poor revving(all for you meade) 2.0L.

chikoo

not exactly 1 quart, but almost.

Any ideas?

I had a very unique experience, but I'd like to know what theory says?

anybody?

meinrad

it's smart to drive while using LSD. LoL. You might think you're driving a Jetta.

the_big_h

lucky man! what color, titanium silver or sunburst yellow???

I would LOVE to take that for a spin, screw FWD!!!!

jstandefer

Oh, I guess... Sure, bring the Miata just to show us all up! (I was kind of hoping for something different -but also with an LSD-, but I knew that was just wishful thinking!) Know anyone else that would be interested in coming to the meet?

Actually, my favorite engine in the Protege is not the FP 1.8L or the FD 2.0L. It was the BP 1.8L! Now that was a rev-happy engine that was just plain fun to drive!

BTW, my bias towards the 1.8L (in comparison to the 2.0L) is the fun-to-drive factor. Although I still think the 1.8L can run away from the 2.0L, the differences in performance are minor. I just find the 1.8L to be more fun to drive hard!

Sure, the 2.0L has about 10% more torque and 6.5% more hp at the crank. What makes it to the ground is another story... The 227hp WRX only gets 165 of those ponies to the ground... ;-)

protege_fan

...And it can still go 0-60 in 5.7 seconds.

shrique

if you attempt to DESTROY the clutch and transmission.

bluong1

you wrote "I just find the 1.8L to be more fun to drive hard!".

Good for your Jerry. On the other hand, we find the 2.0L more fun when not driven hard. ;-)

Bruno

jstandefer

"On the other hand, we find the 2.0L more fun when not driven hard. ;-)"

Is it possible to have fun while not driving it hard? Now that just wouldn't be very ZOOM ZOOM of you!

LOL...

-Jerry

maltb

The motor was a blast, but the car handled poorly. When the '99 came along, I was excited that to see the changes with the exception of the engine. However, the BP is NOT compatible, IMO, with an automatic tranny. Unfortunately, you can't sell a manual only economy car and stay in business.

MS3? I wish! I was hoping to find an MP3. We'll see.

newcar31

"The 227hp WRX only gets 165 of those ponies to the ground"

And it gets ALL 165 of those ponies to the ground. If this car were FWD, it would put a lot more power to the ground, but that power may be lost in tire smoke. How do they test horsepower to the wheels on an AWD car anyway? All the brake dynos I've heard of will not accomodate AWD, you'd have to disconnect the driveshaft and measure hp from the front wheels on a WRX. If that's the case, I'm sure it puts down more than 165 ponies.

jstandefer

Very true. The most efficient drivetrain is going to be FWD with a typical 15% loss for a 5-spd manual. The least efficient is AWD because you have to spin twice as many mechanicals. If the WRX were FWD or RWD, it would get a lot more power to the ground.

I don't know how they dyno AWD cars. I can't imagine disconnecting a driveshaft... kind of ruins the whole point of testing on a dyno. I'll have to ask around. Hmmm... here in California, they put the car on a dyno-like drum to test the emissions of a vehicle under load (simulating a 35-mph uphill load in 3rd gear). I wonder how they test the AWD cars?

-Jerry

machinist16

I have a 94 protege the driver's side window has died. After taking off the panel and checking for loose wires I decided the motor must have gone out. Has anybody had the same problem.
Turbine King

maltb

They can put rollers under the rear wheels as well.

I'm sure some clever person somewhere has figured out how to to have front and rear rollers connected to the same flywheel brake.

jstandefer

You're so smart! :-)

So, no MS? Not even a little one? I already have an MP3 coming and for history's sake (and for the fact that it is an awesome car) a 323 GTX AWD Turbo. Can we at least try surfing in your Miata? LOL

-Jerry

fowler3

I get here by the Front Page, since I made it my Start Page last year. Then scroll down to TH and click. That takes me to Make and Topic Index -->
Mazda Protege Discussions --> Mazda Protege.

dsm6, You have two horses? Man, you must be wide in the beam to need two horses under you! LOL!

fowler3

newcar31

I'm sure Subaru and Audi have a couple AWD dynos, but I've never actually seen or read of one. I'm in MN though, they probably have all that cool stuff out in CA, the car biz is big out there. I'm jealous of the California Protege get-togethers. You can almost bet on beautiful weather and I know there are some bad [non-permissible content removed] canyon roads out there, no mosquitos either. What more could you ask for?

jstandefer

"You can almost bet on beautiful weather and I know there are some bad [non-permissible content removed] canyon roads out there, no mosquitos either. What more could you ask for?"

Ummm... Well... Less traffic (30 minutes to go 10 miles), cheaper real estate (average 2-br apartment = $1,200!), cheaper insurance, no earthquakes, fresh water, electricity, breathable air... shall I go on? LOL

fowler3

This arguement is getting OLD! Since new Protege buyers have no way of knowing what the 1.8L engine was like and the older Pro owners can compare the two, it's sort of a moot point.

Those who like the black interior trim and white gages, I'm sure they are happy with their purchase, I hope so.

My '02 LX has the beige trim and a bronze-finished center stack face. I have never liked black interiors and black steering wheels. They get too hot! Dust shows badly on them all the time. It's hard to see anything you drop or place on the floor when driving at night. As for the aluminum trim, it sucks, it's the wrong color and looks fake because it is. White gages are harder to read in the daytime and red illumination is hard to see at night, since as people get older they lose their ability to see the red wave length. By age 40 they have lost 50% of their ability. Bad idea.

The beige trim makes the interior seem larger and looks cleaner and more comfortable. How the car drives and handles was secondary in my purchase. I do NOT drive hard. I do NOT run it up to the redline. To me, Zoom Zoom is childish BS. I bought the car for transportation, not sporty driving, and it delivers nicely with the 2.0L and AT with good fuel economy.

My next car won't be a Mazda6, even if built in Japan. Not if it has a black interior, not if "sporty" is written all over it. It will never compete with the Camry and Accord and sell to older buyers. If Mazda doesn't offer a conservative version of the Mazda6 they will lose the opportunity to sell to buyers who appreciate "classic design elements" blended with modern design.

fowler3

pat

Hmm...

I may not be exactly sure what you mean by "Front Page" -- if you mean http://www.edmunds.com, cool. And from there you choose the Town Hall link which takes you to what I called the "Welcome" page. At that point, the message I posted to you earlier may be helpful in cutting down the number of pages you have to see before you get here?

I was trying to show you a way to do exactly what you used to do before this latest change. If I am following you now, the difference is what happens after you click on the Town Hall link. It used to be when you accessed that link you could then click on a Sedans link to see ALL of the Sedans discussions - then you could choose whatever you wanted, like Mazda Protege.

Now what you need to do - in order to see the exact same thing - is click on theTown Hall link the way you have, then scroll down to Sedans - but now DON'T click that link. Instead click the link under the Sedans link that says "view all discussions" -- now you will have taken the identical steps you used to take.

If I have thoroughly confused you, please forgive me.

As always, I'm happy to try to address any questions of this sort. It's probably better if you either email me or post your questions in the "ask the Sedans Host" discussion, though.

Pat

protege_fan

Am I right here....Jerry, have you NEVER driven the 2.0? I know I've never driven the 1.8 so any comments I make would be based on nothing but other people's SUBJECTIVE opinions.

As it's been said, it's more of a seat of the pants feel. If nobody has driven both, then I don't think a comment can be made.

So let's stop the insanity. We ALL love our Pros. End of story. Can't we just all get along and do some Kia and Daewoo bashing like in the good 'ol days???

jstandefer

I've driven more 2.0s and 1.8s than you can shake a stick at! LOL

Not too long ago, I used to sell Mazda's and after that I was the Inventory/Lot Manager. Basically, I drove, inspected, and received EVERY Mazda that came on the lot. So, to say that I've driven the 2.0 would probably be an understatement... :-)

-Jerry

pjd58

If you want power, torque etc......don't buy a Protege. Man, I guess Americans need the most power under the hood. Comparing the 2 engines is picking nits. I agree the Protege is a "Driver's car" and has a great feel. We are very lucky to have such a great car at an entry level price. I rather sacrifice a few ponies, for a well put together car. In the econo-box class, the Protege's fit,finish,reliability and handling are second to none.

snagy1

consumer reports came out yesterday in mail and it appears we protege might take a small beating. interesting note is that there rating are not consistant. they say trunk is below average in the dot rating area, (half black circle) but state in the detail section, they can fit 4 suitcases and still have room to spare! i don't feel noise is as bad as they say it is. if i wanted a quiet car i would have got a lexus for three times the price i paid.

chikoo

The trunk of the PRO is excellent....space is not all that matters....how and where that space is available is what matters....and the PRO's boxy trunk beats everyone hands down.

chikoo

http://www.w-tune.com/home.html

vocus

I think they mean about the hinges. Mazda still uses the gooseneck hinges, and they take up space and smash your luggage. That's one thing I always hated about the Pro, you had to watch how you packed because you would smoosh your luggage.

snagy1

the only thing that i agree with is the gas mileage is not the greatest. i got spoiled getting 38- 40 mpg with my now dead saturn. otherwise, it's very fun to drive, looking to get rid of my poortenza tires soon ( at 19,000 miles now in only 10 months). i can deal with the engine noise at high speeds, but most of all, i need a dependable car, no if's and's or but's

vocus

CR did say reliability was on the Protege's side, but they also said that was the only thing on its side. Note that everyone had to catch up to the Protege though.

snagy1

i'll admit that being near the top is tough to stay there. for what i paid $ 15,000 loaded lx 2.0, i'm happy. my employee has focus and i just gave to him the notice for recall number eight, he fell over and once again i said "should have gotten a protege"

mazdafun

They dinged the Pro's ride for its stiffness, although they did mentioned it had very little body roll in corners etc.

So naturally, the Corolla, with its much softer ride, would appeal more to them. I didn't think its rear doors were any bigger, and that its rear seat is still much less comfy than the Pro's. And I too think the Corolla's steering wheel is too far away. It's a better fit for shorter people (probably 5 to 5.5 ft).

On the other hand, C&D, Automobile, who prefer "driver's cars" prefer the Pro for its overall handling and don't really give a hoot about comfort (above a certain level). C&D doesn't seem to care too much about reliability. Automobile seems to care more about aesthetic and ergonomic design.

Each reviewer has a different philosophy. In the end, you've got to test-drive each. For me, I still don't like the Corolla, but it'll sell well becuase it'll likely be a reliable, comfortable, efficient form of affordable transportation. It's just a poor fit for my frame and isn't any fun to drive (my opinion, but look what I'm comparing it to!), although it doesn't wallow and wag like the previous one.

rbrooks3

Well, I meet with the dealership tomorrow at 7pm to see what we can do to get me and my creaky-locking knee out of the 5 month old ES 5spd and into a slushboxer. I've started physical therapy again in the hopes I can do something physically about the locking. I don't see how I don't lose at least 3,000 on the deal so I would prefer to avoid it. I figure the cost of the sport auto and sales tax is about 1,000 and I don't see how the depreciation on a 5 month old ES with 6,000 miles won't be at least 2,000 so 3,000 is the minimum. The salesperson said he already spoke to the owner and he thinks we can come to a "doable" deal since the Pro was the 2nd car in 2 years I bought from them. I'm hoping we can, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope.

I'll probably end up doing the PT thing and then selling the car in ayear or 2 when the depreciation vs. loan balance leaves me a bit more room. Right now it make sno sense to "spend" 19,000+ for a 16,000 ES.

On another note, my brothers were at the Canadian GP last wekend and saw a Mazda display with a MazdaSpeed. He said it looked great and wondered why I didn't get that instead of the ES. That's a big compliment since imports are not his bag at all. He's a pick-up man. He has a 2001 Ford 250 w/ v-10 turbo diesel. To commute with!! He's crazy. Costs him over $50.00 to fill up here in NY and with that turbo singing, he fills it up often. Perhaps Mazda will claim another convert.

snagy1

how do i get rid of "horn" beeping for my new messages? can it be another sound?

vocus

I wish you luck as well, but Proteges don't seem to hold their value well. I had a 2001, but it had 20K on it when I traded it. They said it was worth $11,500. The MSRP was $18,545 (I didn't pay that for it), but you have alot less mileage than I had at the time.

At least you are trading the car, and not having the manufactuer (more than likely) buying it back because of workmanship problems.

protege_fan

For some reason I thought you said that you hadn't driven the 2.0L. My bad!!

vocus

I didn't even know there was a sound. I have my sound at work off though, and I don't know how to change the sound. It's probably an Edmund's thing, can't be changed.

vocus

Shame on you! DOH! Just kidding dude.

I have driven the 1.8 and the 2.0 (both automatics), and liked the 1.8 better. It did rev easier, and sounded better doing it. I don't know about power, as it's been too long since the 1.8 to really remember. But the 2.0 I had was adequate.

snagy1

well, i got busted, had three piece sound system up from listening to springsteen earlier and the horn sound went off while away from desk and it was LOUD

protege_fan

I don't hear a beep. Perhaps it is one of your Windows settings (ie. Start menu->Settings->Control Panel->Sounds)??

snagy1

i turned off the message notification button to stop the sound. used to be a "ding" sound before when new message arrived from my subscriptions.