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Comments
I drove my dad's TSX for quite a bit yesterday and as you mentioned, I found myself missing the power of my LGT the most.
I had several chances to explore the upper ranges of the TSX's rpm band and I was impressed how it continued to deliver smooth power even past the 5K mark. The engine note definetly took on a Honda-esque shrill as it approached redline but it never felt strained like the 2.5NA H4 at the same RPM.
It's surprising how one can get used to a certain level of power, however. Despite the TSX having enough power for daily driving, I found myself wishing for boost to kick in and rocket me forward. I even caught myself thumbing the audio controls to get the system to downshift. I guess that's the difference of 170-something vs. 250 ft lbs of torque.
I can't wait to get back and drive my LGT wagon!
Ken
Where do you see there is only one choice? I did a quick check on tirerack and came up with at least a dozen. I searched on the proper size and category Ultra High Performance, High Performance and Performance across all manufacturers.
Also, note that the RE92 and the RE92A are different tires, so right there you have two.
Craig
Craig
You bring up a point that I have been thinking about; for years, I was happy with the 2.5H4 NA engines in the various Outbacks and Foresters we owned. All of a sudden I am becoming accustomed to the 2.5 H4 turbo and all that amazing power. It is addictive. It will be real hard to go back to a "regular" and more practically-powered vehicle.
I was thinking today how it would be nice to spend less money on my next Subaru (3-5 years out), since $33K for the OB XT (even paying at $30K invoice) was a little steep for my tastes. In reality, a regular 2.5i-Ltd model would suit me well, probably with a 17" wheel upgrade and a couple other mods. But the power of the 2.5 turbo is something I would really miss. The question I will have to address at the next purchase -- is that extra power enough to justify the higher price and lower MPG?!? Maybe so!
Craig
If the engine is stuttering after you top off, I would guess that the vent may have gotten blocked somehow and fuel flow was impeded. Just a guess. It would not surprise me to have this trigger a CEL as well (similar to how leaving the gas cap loose can trigger one).
Craig
CRaig
Ditto the comments about my next verhicle down the road. I too was uncomfortable and was cringing when spending $30k+ for my 05 GT wagon but the power/torque is soooo addicting and fun. Practicality vs fun/cost. It's a decision to revisit down the road but right now I am just enjoying the heck out of this turbo wagon.
Leo
I'd probably have had the same problem with an aftermarket hitch...
I understand your indecision. However, I don't believe the difference is as close as you make it sound. Whenever you are ready to actually BUY, I believe tyhat you will be able to find a 2.5I is many thousands of dollars less than the optional engine models. Fro instance (as I have posted on the "Buying experience thread) I paid $17340 for a "Base" 2004 2,5I Outback on August 26 2004. I believe that the forum members were reporting $28 to $30,000 for the Outback with the optional engine. I too wanted more power, However looking at the difference of more than $10,000 for "just the optional engine, leather interior, and sunroof...well I just couldn't justify THAT! I believe that when you are ready to buy, you will find similar deals to mine (I had several pages of "standard" features, and only 3 "options....1) tweeters, 2) rear "dust deflector", and 3) compass auto dimming rear view mirror. Every other feature was already included. You figure:-)
Thanks for your advice.
The 05 2.5i 4eat models are going for about $24K (sticker $26K) and the 2.5i-Ltd 4eat models are going for about $27K (sticker $29K). So the XT models demand about a $3K premium for the turbo motor, 5eat versus 4eat, 17" wheels, and a few other minor details. Some are worth the extra cost (motor and 5eat mainly) but it certainly pushes the prices up high!
Next time around, I could probably feel better about a hypothetical 200HP 2.5i-Ltd model with 5eat for $27K or so. Which means Subaru has to up the content (more HP, another gear) and keep prices steady. They should have stability control standard by then too!
Now this is starting to sound like a future models discussion...
Craig
Thanks for your advice.
I let her complain a while longer, and then we finally started shopping for sedans. The TSX turned out to be a great value -- we paid $25K for an automatic without Nav. She loves the car and I like it too. I especially like not having to listen to her complain!!
So the simple answer is that she wanted a sedan. I did try persuading her to get a Legacy GT sedan, but we both agreed it was not the car for her. It was also more expensive than the TSX by several thousand dollars, and she really didn't appreciate the AWD and high horsepower. The TSX has more than adequate power and stability control will keep her out of trouble.
The Forester XT and Outback VDC are quite different, so I wouldn't think your decision is that hard (then again, we all figured you would have bought a car by now!). I think refinement definitely goes in favor of the VDC, while the Forester wins in the fun-to-drive category.
Craig
The normal service schedule calls for the first oil change at 7500 miles. Severe service schedule calls for the first change at 3750 miles. So choose based on your type of driving (look in the manual for details). Personally, I am sticking to the factory recommended 7500 mile intervals, but more frequent changes certainly can't hurt.
I am at 5400 miles on my XT, and haven't gotten to the first oil change yet.
CRaig
Don't search that way -- punch in the vehicle type as 05 Legacy GT and it will give you the appropriate tires for the car.
I seriously doubt the GT "requires" Z rated tires. It just happens that's the rating on OEM-size RE-92A tires. Usually TireRack shows the allowable speed ratings as recommended by the car manufacturer, and in this case they have several lower speed ratings.
Craig
Craig
I think it's an image problem for me - I'm in my mid 50s, grown kids - how will it look for me to drive an outback wagon?
Answer that and I'm ready to make a decision - promise!!!
I think it's an image problem for me - I'm in my mid 50s, grown kids - how will it look for me to drive an outback wagon?
Answer that and I'm ready to make a decision - promise!!!
OK, here's how I picture myself driving an Outback: outdoorsy-skier-kayaker who needs a sport utility type vehicle but doesn't want a truck or a traditional station wagon. The Outback is the perfect vehicle for me, and the 05 models are the best ones so far in terms of driving, handling, power, and styling. I have a hard time thinking of any downsides to the 05 XT I have now.
I see a wide range of people driving Outbacks, but it generaly tends to two groups 1) older (age 45-65) couples (like my parents who own an 00 Outback and use it for everything from gardening to canoeing) and 2) mid 30s - mid 40s men/women with ski racks, bike racks, etc... (like me!). I rarely see traditional families in Outbacks these days -- I think many of these people are buying minivans and SUVs.
So from my experience, you are exactly in one of the Outback's target groups. If I saw you driving around I'd think you were pretty hip!
Craig
p.s. I tend to see the same two groups driving Foresters too.
Your explanation is right on. Just out of curiosity - did you consider an SUV for yourself?
Craig
Thanks to you, I'm feeling much better about the Outback.
Craig
Craig is correct in saying that it drives and handles like a minivan. It is really just like the Sienna (same platform and drivetrain, same interior) but with a higher ground clearance and less interior space. I was moving away from big SUVs because they either handled like minivans, or like trucks. They are too big and clumsy.
The Outback XT has far better performance, manoeuvrability, and handling, and a better AWD system and safety ratings to boot. While the Outback is not perfect, I'm nonetheless very happy with my move.
Sly
Thanks again - we appreciate any and all advice!
I think that in many ways the VDC is actually better than the XT. The H6 engine is almost as powerful as the Turbo but it is much smoother and has a more linear power delivery. I also think it is a better match for the auto transmission, but Craig will disagree with me on that.
The VDC system should provide you with the ultimate in winter safety. You should also plan on buying some good winter tires. The Bridgestone RE-92As that come with the car are performance oriented All Season tires and are not all that good for the winter. If you ever decide to go with the Highlander you should do the same, as the Good-Year Integrity tires that come with that car are downright dangerous.
Good luck with your purchase!
I thought I saw a "V" rating on my OBXT wagon's RE92-A tires. Actually even a V rating is overkill for the likes of me. I've always had H rated (to 130mph) tires before.
Bob
The Europeans seem to all drive hatchbacks and small wagons. They want their utility. Someone once said the VW Golf outsells the Jetta 80-20 in Europe but it is just the reverse here in the US.
Another point. I think the OB is understated. It gives off an aura of budgetary responsiblity along with an environmental conscience. But underneath the hood lurks 250hp which resembles the horses found in some of the 1960s musclecars.
Bob
Craig,
Thanks for the tips on the subwoofer installation. They truly helped. I performed the install last night (yes, against the recommendations of fellow posters) and all went smoothly. I proceeded as you recommended by starting at the shifter trim panel, but ended up removing the entire console for ease of routing the cable under the carpet. Needed the extra maneuverability.
Took a total of 2.5 hrs including set-up. I had the deck out in 15 minutes, it was that easy. The most difficult step was routing the harness under the carpet from the console to a precut hole in the carpet under the seat. I also wasted a good 15 min looking for one of the retainer clips that popped off the console.
BTW, the sub makes a significant difference. Its more than sufficient for me, but someone who likes the bone-crushing thump of a 10 or 12" woofer, will not be satisfied. Personally, I just wanted bass enhancement and the OEM sub does the trick quite well. Obviously, audio quality is very subjective.
Some additional tips for others considering this install (presuming you have the instructions that comes with the subwoofer):
A)Centre console: I recommend removing the center console completely to allow more room to route the wire under the carpet to the underside of the seat.
1. Remove screws in the storage compartment.
2. There are two retaining clips at the front end of the console(near the seat heater controls). There are also two clips on the hand brake cover. One is attached to the console body under the shifter, the rear clip is attached to the console you are removing, so you are only releasing one at this time. All are removed by pulling up. They can be a little stubborn, so take your time.
3. The hand brake cover can also be separated from the console by pulling up away from the console. One clip at the bottom edge, rear and three long "nipples" at the top edge. Separating the cover from the console allows you to completely move the console out of the way.
NB. Watch out for the grease on the hand-brake assembly. You may want to drop some paper towels or old cloth on top so you don't get grease everywhere.
To obtain more slack, unclip the harness for the hazard light button. The release lever is on the underside of the white connector. This will give more slack and allow you to access the bracket mount screw on the passenger side of the radio to attach the ground wire of the sub harness. Once it is plugged in and grounded, hook it up to the sub to check that it works.
C) Routing the wire. Struggled with this for sometime. Best way was to use some mechanics wire found any hardware store. Need about 2 ft. Get a thick enough gauge wire that will not bend at the slightest pressure, but will bend to follow the curve from the floor up to the console. Coat hanger is not a good idea...it is not sufficiently malleable.
1. Put the drivers seat in the near complete forward position to access the precut carpet under the seat. The key is to not have the seatbelt trim plate between the seat in the console exactly where the harness connector will be routed. It will make pulling the harness through very difficult. You'll have to play with the seat position a bit. Also, raising seat to full height helps.
2. Bend the end of mechanics wire back onto itself to form a loop and rounded front edge. I also put some duct tape over the end. This will prevent snagging the wire on the foam under the carpet.
3. From the driver's side rear seat, locate the precut carpet access under drivers seat (its a flap of carpet, not a hole).
4. Insert the rounded end of the wire up towards the console. I reached in the precut carpet with my fingers as far as I could to help guide the wire up rather than to the side. May take a few tries. It also helps to pull the carpet up from the floor and away from the console as the wire begins fish its way and bend for ascent up the center console.
5. Wire will pop up around the hand brake if all goes well. Bend the wire into a squarish shaped hook so the end can fit into the empty pin hole on the wire side of the connector. Then tape it all up securely, especially to the wire harness itself so you are not just pulling on the connector as you fish it through.
6. Disconnect the wire from the front of the hand brake assembly....gives you a bit more room. Just remember to reconnect afterwards.
7. From the rear seat, as you pull on the wire with left hand, use your right hand to maneuver the connector past some of the obstacles of the hand brake assembly. Then, there is a white flat conduit of some sort mounted under the carpet, on the side of the console, sloping down to floor. You need to pull the connector to the rear of this conduit which ends around the middle of the hand brake. Then continue pulling the wire down slowly but forcefully. As it nears the bottom of the console and hits the floor, pull up on the carpet again from the access hole under the driver's seat to give the connector room to maneuver the curve at bottom console/floor. Voila!
D)Setting the sub.
I find it hard to access the sub controls from the front of the seat. I suggest that you try to get your sub settings correct before mounting it to the bracket and the bracket to the seat. Put the sub in its to be position, get in the car, doors closed and play with the controls. Its a bit of a pain getting up to reset the sub controls, but once you have them set, its done.
Cheers,
Jay
Tires will definitely affect turning, but the understeer you describe is pretty typical for any car that drives the front wheels. With AWD, depending on the transmission you have, you can override that behavior with certain steering and throttle inputs. Once I get a chance to play in some snow, I'll see if I can do it with my OB XT. I have a 5EAT which has a nominal rearward bias.
Craig
Too bad we can't make posts "sticky" on this forum, I think your writeup would be a great one for future reference.
Craig
Very well put, I agree totally.
The Europeans seem to all drive hatchbacks and small wagons. They want their utility. Someone once said the VW Golf outsells the Jetta 80-20 in Europe but it is just the reverse here in the US.
My friends from Europe tell me that wagons like the Legacy and Outback are popular, and many people own trailers for hauling cargo or doing projects. I tend to agree with them when they think so many Americans are nuts for driving around in huge empty SUVs and pickup trucks. Somewhere along the line, a whole bunch of people got convinced they needed trucks, but it's serious overkill in my opinion. I have owned a Subaru wagon ever since being a homeowner, and have tackled some really big projects (including building a shed and getting all the materials home) with nothing more than a station wagon and roof rack. In a pinch I would install a trailer hitch and buy or rent a small utility trailer, or heck, rent a truck for $35 a day!
Craig
I will be ordering mine soon. Would you like to come out to the lake and give me a hand with mine?
Sly
Craig
Actually, I will break tradition and agree with you on that one! ;-) Then again, you can only get 5EAT on the VDC so we'll never really know. I do think a 5MT would be pretty sweet with the H6 engine though...
Craig