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Buying a Used 3-Series

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    There's no way to know and no way to guarantee even 100 more miles on a car of this age and mileage.

    Roadburner's advice is, however, a GREAT way to improve your odds.

    So a lot depends entirely on how well it was cared for in the first place (not in your control) AND how well YOU care for it in the future (totally in your control).

    Let's be real here---a car with this mileage is like a man who is 75 years old. Could live to a hundred, could drop on the tennis court tomorrow.

    Statistically, (and statistics are often misleading) the average car in America lasts 10-11 years. If we assume 15,000 miles a year, then there you go.

    But that includes mishaps like accidents, theft, etc.---also not in your control half the time.

    (I read somewhere that even if our bodies could be made disease-free and we couldn't die, that within 200 or 300 years we'd get blown up or something anyway). :P

    Speaking only with anecdotal evidence, which proves nothing, in my appraisal work I rarely see an older car of any type at 300K, but I do see them at 225K or so fairly frequently. And the rare ones at 300K have certainly had an investment of maintenance and/or repair.

    So it may turn out that your budget will determine the car's ultimate longevity. BMWs are tough cars but they don't like neglect. This isn't a '65 Chevy.


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  • 0435004350 Posts: 26
    I had a 89 325 conv until a few years ago. The car handled poorly on snowy
    roads. I can remember doing a 720 (turned a circle twice) when it slid and fortunately there was almost no traffic on the suburban road where I was at
    because it was about 6:50 AM.

    There are a few sites where you can buy many used parts for these BMWs
    on the internet. I can remember the dealer quoted us $ 1,600 for a new
    air conditioner compressor in 2006. Someone else fixed the ac for us without
    replacing the comp for about $ 200. The dealer also missed recommending
    a repair that was actually needed and was unable to re-set the dashboard
    light for the brakes which the buyer from us told me that he was able to do.

    Remember that parts fail not only due to high miles but also just
    age and rust.
  • 0435004350 Posts: 26
    Oops. I meant a "720" not a "760."
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    with an older BMW you pretty much stay away from dealers for repairs, if you can. They don't even like to work on older BMWs and will probably punish you for bringing one in.

    Indy shops, wrecking yards, BMW club, internet--this is the way to go I think. I kept my 735 alive for pretty cheap--the previous owner spent a fortune. The AC was the biggest challenge to make truly efficient, and also the usual electrical glitches you get with old German cars.

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  • Oh yeah, the AC doesnt work either, but I think I'm gonna buy it unless I hear a strong disapproval from people more experienced with BMW's than I. Thanks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    well think of it as a learning experience for you. If the car doesn't work out, you can always sell it for that money and get something better. My only advice is don't put TOO MUCH MONEY in it.

    If you want a really "nice" BMW, save up your money and buy one already done.

    This one should be for transportation, tinkering and learning IMO.

    If something really BAD happens to the car (engine failure, transmission failure) just junk it and start over. But a clutch, well you can deal with that yourself and shop for a cheap clutch pack on the internet.

    Also learn to love eBay.

    My Old Used Car With a Gazillion Miles on It Rules of Thumb:

    1. Check under the hood A LOT. Look for leaks, problems, looseness

    2. If the temp needle goes in the red, STOP RIGHT THERE.

    3. If the oil light comes on, STOP RIGHT THERE

    4. Change your own oil and filter

    5. Never listen to advice about a BMW from someone who has never owned one.

    6. Never listen to advice in an Auto Parts Store

    7. Shop around for everything. You'd be amazed at how much money you can save.

    8. Do not abuse an old car. Be easy on it. It is like an old dog, don't throw the stick too far.

    9. Fix things as they come up. Don't defer until you have a list of 15 defects.

    10. Your tachometer is your best friend. Pay attention to it as you shift.

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  • Alright, thanks.
    I have basically no budget and I need a car that runs (preferably manual, easier to work with in my opinion). Your advice has helped quite a bit and now I am armed with knowledge on what will most likely go wrong with this car. Thanks for your help.
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    I've had my '87 325 since 1999, when I bought it for $2500 with 125,000 mile on it. In the 9.5 years I've owned it, I've spent around $5400 on repairs, maintenance, and wear-and-tear items (tires, windshield wipers, oil changes, etc), doing much of the work myself. Car now has ~188,000 miles on it (can't tell exactly because odometer has not been working for past 2 years or so). I drive it half time - alternating with a '92 Sentra SE-R.

    You're looking to buy a comparable car with more mile than mine, so be prepared to cough up some bucks for maintenance or repairs.

    BTW, my AC doesn't work either, but I can live with that. Both front control arms have been replaced, as has the steering rack. Timing belt and water pump were replaced at the 144K miles mark.

    Mr. Shiftright's reference as to what thing to look for seems pretty much in agreement with my experience.
  • Would you recommend the purchase then?
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    If you NEED the car for transportation, and money is tight, you're crazy. You can get a car with less potential, but less potential expense in it for the same dollars. An old Toyota Corolla, or an old GM car will serve you much better as routine transportation.

    If you already have a second car that will get you to work pretty regularly when this one is waiting parts (or waiting for you to have the time to put them in) then - maybe.

    My wife's 98 328i is a pampered child - never parked outside day or night- has 50K miles on it since 1998 - she only drives about 6 K a year but drives it regularly to work and back. Maintained, literally, by the book. However, when I go through the "things that are gonna happen" checklist that Mr. Shiftright has provided, it's a near perfect match for the things I've done for her car. The radiator, the bushings, the window regulator, the leaky valve cover gasket, and now last weekend, the thermostat (fortunately in the open position).

    The next ones will be (according to the check list) the water pump, and then the fan clutch.

    None of these are a big deal individually as, fortunately, I can afford them, and they don't pop up very close together. Still, just for routine maintenance like this, and then adding in tires, brakes, etc, I'm probably averaging $200 a month over the course of a year. Unfortunately, that's nothing for six months and then $800 and then nothing for a few months and so on. You'll spend less dollars since you can do your own work, but you'll spend more hours, and during those hours you won't be driving.

    Final note of experience. If you don't have a garage to work in - you're parking outside - then this car won't be practical. Some jobs are going to take you two or three days at a minimum - to get the part you didn't know you needed when you started, or the tool that you have to borrow from somebody, halfway through the job.

    Me? I'd hold off and wait a little. Given economic conditions, you should be able to pick up a better old BMW for a few K more that will allow you to skip some of the maintenance anything this old will need. Better to invest the money up front for a better car, than to spend the same money later for parts.

    When I was young and thin, and poor, I owned an old Alfa Spider, so I come by these opinions honestly.

    Still, in the end the decision has to be yours.

    "The heart has its reasons that the mind knows nothing of"
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    the only thing I can add to lokki is this----"never gamble more than you can afford to lose".

    Can this car go another 75,000 miles? Sure, probably, given its good care (allegedly).

    Will those 75,000 miles be relatively trouble-free? No, that is simply not realistic thinking.

    Let's frame it this way---aside from gas and insurance, can you afford to put $100 to $150 a month into this car, averaged out over a couple of years?

    If "yes I think so", then okay, give it a shot.

    If "no, I really don't want to do that every month" then no, don't buy it.

    Get an old Corolla....turn the key, drive it, park it, abuse it, crash it...it doesn't mind.

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  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    Given that you have no budget, I would say no. I think you would be doing extremely well with that car if you only put $100-$150/month into it.

    Look for a used Civic or Corolla, though those tend to be a bit pricey.

    Something used from Detroit would probably be more in your price range, but I don't really have a good recommendation there. I did good with a used '94 Merc Tracer I bought for my son 8 years ago (120,000 miles on it, paid something like $2000 for it). Guy my wife worked with was moving out of the country.

    Any retirement communities near you? Lots of times you can find some really good deals there from someone giving up their license and vehicle.
  • adagadag Posts: 5
    Test drove the two (among others) and am leaning towards the BMW.

    BMW '07 328i (20K Miles & @$21.5K) vs Acura '06 TL (19K Miles @$21.5K). There are factory warranty's available- 4yr/50K miles.. essentially 2 years on the BMW vs a year on the Acura. What other factor should I consider prior to purchasing? Moving to SF Bay area- and possibly drive 120 miles/day.

    This is the first time I am going to this car segment after driving a reliable Honda Civic. Appreciate advise and cautions

    Best,
    Ad-ag
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 31,090
    Don't know how it's equipped, but the deal on the BMW looks a lot better...

    One other thing to factor in... No charge for service on the BMW until the warranty expires...

    600 miles per week? Shewwwwww.. get a new girlfriend...lol.

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  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    They're both fine vehicles.

    IMO (I have an '87 BMW and my son has a TL type S), the BMW is sportier and more fun to drive, while, over the long run, the Acura will be cheaper for maintenance and repairs.

    If it were me, I would go for the BMW, particularly given that they're the same price and the BMW is a year newer.

    How are they equiped?
  • adagadag Posts: 5
    Acura TL: Pwr Seat, Pwr Sunroof, Pwr Windows, Pwr Locks, A/C, Cruise, CD, Leather, Heated Seats, Security System, Alloys, Traction Control, Xenon Lights.

    BMW: Pwr Seat, Pwr Sunroof, Pwr Windows, Pwr Locks, A/C, Cruise, CD, Leather, Heated Seats, Security System, Alloys, Traction Control

    Should I be taking an extended warranty? I am buying the car in minneapolis and moving to SF Bay Area in another month or so. Alternatively, I can buy the car in SF, but the location difference makes up the difference in price for similar cars in the two cities.
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    In general, I'm not a fan of extended warranties.

    For one, anything that makes a lot money for the company has to be a bad deal for the consumer.

    Second, the extended warranties I've looked at tend to have lots of caveats and exceptions, such as:
    1. Vehicle must be serviced by the dealer (pricey).
    2. Normal wear-and-tear items (brakes) are excluded".
    3. There's usually a deductible (per visit?, or per incident?).

    That said, there are people who have made out with such a policy. Friend of mine saved several thousand dollars when the tranny in his GMC Yukon had to be replaced at the 60,000 mile mark. But, that's a GMC Yukon - not an Acura.

    IMO, just put the money you would spend on the extended warranty aside (maybe buy some GM stock with it ;)), ready for use should the need arise.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,957
    extended warranties can be tricky. Sometimes, rather than list all the "exclusions", they'll only mention things that ARE covered, leaving you to deduce by elimination those items which are not covered.

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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    So you don't remember the Acura tranny problems and recall of a few years back, do you?

    Look at it this way... some folks here have said they budget $100-150 a month for repairs. Over, say, eight years that's $10-14,000. An extended warranty for that period costs how much? I just got one on a used Jetta for $1900 (8 years bumper-to-bumper). On a BMW it would likely be more. Added a few bucks to my monthly payment. I'd rather have predictable costs for repairs over the lifetime of a car than unpredictable and possible very large costs. Not for everyone, but it works for me.
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    No, I don't (remember the Acura tranny problems). Not owning one myself, I probably didn't pay any attention to it.

    On my '87 BMW that I bought used back in 1999, I've spent $~5,400 in repairs and maintenance (tires included). That's $45/month, with me doing a lot of the work myself.

    I look at insurance (which is what an extended warranty is) to protect me against a catastrophic financial loss - house burning down, I total someone's big Mercedes; loss of life, that sort of thing. I don't need it to cover replacing wiper blades or brake pads on my vehicle. Even a clutch or tranny repair I can cover, if it comes up.

    But, like you said, what works for some doesn't for others.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I don't think you'll find many (any?) extended warranties that cover wiper blades, brake pads and the like. But what I've heard is that a clutch replacement on a 3 Series can run $1400+. An automatic? On a non-BMW they can easily be $2000-3000; I'd hate to see what it would be on a 3 Series. And no, those are not things I could do myself in my garage (which is about -5 F right now). Wiper blades? Yes!
  • Looking to sell my blue metallic 2003 325i w/ 116k miles on it (~$36k msrp when new). Been a great car but unfortunately it is time to sell it and get a family car with a little one on the way. It's in great shape, with all routine oil changes and tune ups done. No accidents and only one small defect to body underneath grill in an unnoticeable location. 1 owner w/ mostly highway miles. Avg. mpg since owning it has been 25.7 mpg. Leather, premium package, cold weather package. Just installed new window regulators in 2008 and put on new tires in late summer 2007. I'll be taking some pictures over the next week if anyone is interested and am willing to sell it at a nice discount to KBB ($9k) since trading it in only gets me $6-$7k. Located in New England.

    Take care.
  • Purchased a 2006xit wagon with premium package, sport package and cold weather package with 34,000 mi for $27,500.

    This is a CPO
    0.9% financing for 60 months.
    BMW to make first two months payments.

    We still have not taken delivery due to the fact one of the heated washers for the headlights was damaged during detailing and the part needed to be ordered...sounds a bit fishy.

    There are so few of these vehicles out there..just trying to make sure we didn't get ripped off too bad before taking delivery. If the dealer keeps giving us the runaround can we say no to the deal? No money down and no trade involved. Thanks for any input.
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    I don't worry much about clutches. My '87 BMW with 188,000 miles is still on the original clutch, as is my '92 Sentra SE-R, with 144,000 miles.

    And I don't worry about automatic transmissions on BMW's because I won't own one with an automatic.

    So for me, an extended warranty makes no financial sense.

    I understand about the -5 F in the garage. My son is in Rochester, MN, and he hasn't felt like crawling under his cars since Thanksgiving!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Funny thing about the clutches... I was ready to jump on a 2000 323i this fall, had only 43k miles. Called the dealer and they said it was in the shop for a new clutch and so I couldn't drive it yet. Several days later it was ready and the price had gone up $1400 because of the clutch repair. Fooey, I thought, a car advertised from a dealer should be in working order, clutch included, so I looked elsewhere. Got a 2000 328Ci. After a few weeks I noticed the clutch would slip sometimes. That car had only 69k on it. Then the fuel pump failed ($800) and I found out that the part to make the moonroof shade work right was $1000, I unloaded that puppy.

    Trannies aren't the only expensive things on 3 Series that can break.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,854
    Trannies aren't the only expensive things on 3 Series that can break

    That's especially true when you walk into a dealer who charges outrageous prices, throw them your credit card, and grab you ankles. Happens EVERY time...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Yup, you can buy a clutch kit from Bav Auto for $250. Anyone paying $1400 for a new clutch is either a billionaire, and idiot, or both.
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    Trannies aren't the only expensive things on 3 Series that can break.

    Amen to that one!
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    I could buy a clutch for $250, but then I would just sit there and look at it much like a caveman would look at a microwave. The BMW places around here won't install parts that you bring it, so what's next? $1400 does seem a little high, but not idiot high.
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    I could buy a clutch for $250, but then I would just sit there and look at it much like a caveman would look at a microwave. The BMW places around here won't install parts that you bring it, so what's next? $1400 does seem a little high, but not idiot high.

    Agreed.

    When I bought my '87 back in 1999, the clutch was the one big ticket item I was worried about. I asked the shop I sometimes use what the price would be to replace it and they said (can't remember exactly) $750 or $950. Since I was getting a good deal on the car, I said "hey, i can live with that".

    So, given that that was almost 10 years ago, and the fact that my '87 is probably easier to work on than the newer models (just guessing here), $1400 doesn't sound too bad.
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