Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

rockylee

Snake, you did you catch the CTS-V video where the owner ws in "limp home mode" and was cursing every other word ????

I caught some heat from that. Has your "V" ever done something like that. I can't remember what edmunds poster said but they said the guy abused the car for 12K miles and wonders why it's in the shop all the time.

If that would of happened to a Lexus driver I could only here the excuses.

BTW- By the attitude by many here I would say immediately if its an import and never if its a domestic.

LOL, we all know that's true.

Rocky

rockylee

Shifty,

You really are drunk on the Toyota/BMW Kool-Aid

We need to get you on a 12-step program ASAP.

Rocky

rockylee

Snake,

Dude that Xb is the ugliest car honestly I've ever seen in my whole entire life.

When my friends/co-workers Sunshine and her husband Ron, rolled into work in that "Thaang" it made the
"Family Truckster" look like a babe mobile

Rocky

rockylee

Think this car would have sold to the green folks? and the "celebrities" who drive one for PR photos and then hop in their motorhome for the rest of their trips.

imidazol97, couldn't of said it better myself.

Rocky

rockylee

Finally, at the coasts you have a higher concentration of immigrants than in the midwest, as somebody mentioned. It's not that those immigrants are going to buy their own country cars (Japanese buying Toyota, Korean buying Hyundai, etc.). It's that the immigrants are first generation and don't have the domestic loyalty that the locals might. So they buy purely on features, quality, and reputation.

Well y'alls immigrants are much different than some of the ones I've met because the ones I've met told me they drive an american car because they are so thankful and blessed to be here. Y'all can send yours back home. :sick:

I suspect that we would see even a greater penetration of what have been higher quality vehicles from the overseas nameplates (certainly in the '80's and 90's, we can argue about today)

It's not like the 1980's were shining years for the japanese auto manufactors. You were lucky if you could get 5 years out of them before they'd rust.

had the midwest NOT had these special advantages. So rather than bemoaning the weirdness of the coasts, we should complain about the unfair disadvantages that the imports have in the midwest!

Ding, ding, ding, you are forgetting the midwest is home field for the domestics and this is their country, ya know the U.S. of A ????? Or is this presently the U.S. of Japan now ????? The Japanese should be thankful we are so stupid to allow them such freedom. We americans can onlt blame ourselves for selling out to foreigners and that isn't just Japan. I just hope they won't abuse me for being patriotic when they divide it up and take over because they own everything because we can't pay the bill. :sick:

Rocky

rockylee

I think the Xb is an awful lot cuter than the Aztec.

The Aztec looks like Jessica Simpson, when compared to the Xb :surprise:

Rocky

rockylee

autoboy,

It's almost (and that is being nice) as ugly dude. :surprise:

Rocky

rockylee

ROTFLMAO !!!!!

Rocky

rockylee

Does the contract state you must be under the influence of a narcotic or suppressant before signing the Scion Xb contract ? :P

Rocky

plekto

The problem remains. As someone here said, they need to do what Harley did. Now, Harley doesn't make the best bikes from a technical standpoint, but they literally ooze style and tactile feedback/comfort.

GM needs to make a better, faster, more agile, and better mpg car?

Easy. JUST DROP THE WEIGHT. All they need to do is literally drop their CTS too under 3000lbs and suddenly it'll be running circles around the competition. And getting much better gas mileage as well.

Speaking just about mileage, GM currently makes the most fuel efficient engines. Consider the displacement and power compared to their MPG. The problem, though, is that they put these fantastic engines in cars that are incredibly bloated. So they come off as "meh".

They need bigger wheels, bigger brakes, a heavier radiator, a bit stiffer frame... all of the things they need because it weighs too much all add up to make it weigh even more. It's a vicious cycle that results in a 3500lb+ car. Even Lexus is suffering from this as well. The IS350 is over 3500lbs! Without the weight, they need smaller brakes, smaller engines... the list goes on.

All they need to do to beat the competition is just make it lighter. Look, if a 1965 Mercedes (RWD, 200hp i-6 gas engine, and modern safety features) could come in at 3000lbs, complete with heavy steel bumpers and sheetmetal - and no plastic at all, there's no reason a modern car needs to weigh more than that.

The Altima, for instance, is ~3000lbs - so it can be done.

rockylee

plekto,

Why do cars weigh so much today ???? One would think with all the weight savings plastic they'd weigh less :confuse:

Rocky

rockylee

I give you perhaps the Sexiest car EVER to come into production :shades:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsID/2061109.004/page/1/country/acf/cadil- - - - - lac/2008-cadillac-cts-world-debut-announced

Y'all could see ol' Rock bumping some
Mary J. Blige -Be Without You (Kendu Mix) through the Bose 5.1 DVD-Audio Studio Surround Sound in this extra HOTT and SEXY 600 horsepower Cadillac CTS-V cruising at a buck-eighty in 5th gear :shades:

It's me isn't it guys ???? It's a match made in my heaven

"Da Rock and his United Auto Workers-> Michigan Made
CADILLAC CTS-V" :shades:

"V" me as my next car, because like me this car is "over the top" and I would take great pleasure in owning the fastest production sedan ever made and making BMW M3 and M5 sedan's look like camcords !!!! :P

Rocky

rockylee

I guess to make sure I better make sure to get a programmer and a aftermarket chip.

Rocky

mediapusher

This news just released Extra! Extra! read all about it. G.M. is so worried that Toyota is going to surpass them in sales they said they won't relinguish the title without a fight.

click --> GM vows to defend title against Toyota

So obviously like the bully in school or little kids, G.M doesn't have its priorities straight and being the biggest and in a financial mess, is the "standard of the world" in their eyes.

G.M. in case you didn't know - being the biggest doesn't automatically make you the most profitable, which you aren't, Toyota is.

Perhaps if GM focused on building cars that people want in the U.S.A. instead of worrying about who happens to be the biggest bad wolf on the block, they'd make some decent sales numbers and profits. They're Ridiculous.

It seems that Toyota and Honda are the standard of the world right now for cars. General Motors is the standard of trucks and SUVs.

Like I said before, this "standard of the world" thing is kind of silly. It depends on what country we're talking about. In Australia, the Holden brand of cars is the "standard of the world"

rockylee

Well in this country mediapusher we only have "ONE STANDARD OF THE WORLD" and we all are aware it is Cadillac

Rocky

mediapusher

The deluded RockyLee strikes again. The standards of the world in the U.S.A. isn't Cadillac, it's a multitude of different brands

Based on what I see people voting on with their wallets around where I live, listed in order, the standard is Toyota, Honda, BMW and then Mercedes, then Cadillac CTS (not any other of their models)

mediapusher

Dude that Xb was the ugliest mini- minivan (which is what they are) I've ever seen. I hope that's just a custom job and not planned for mass production.

bumpy

My Seville has only had one problem in the 4 years that I have owned it. I expect the water pump to need repairs in the near future, but this is to be expected.

It shouldn't be. A water pump ought to last a lot more than four years unless it's racking up 50,000 miles per annum.

gsemike

"I give you perhaps the Sexiest car EVER to come into production"

The Jaguar XKE doesn't have much to worry about.

mediapusher

I did say as reliable, not as good as (whatever that might mean). Even if GM made Cadillac as good as the current Lexus, Toyota would simply turn around and make Lexus better. My Seville has only had one problem in the 4 years that I have owned it. I expect the water pump to need repairs in the near future, but this is to be expected.

Replacing the water pump within 4 years is to be expected?This is where G.M. effectively has its customers brainwashed. A water pump should last a lot longer than 4 years, especially if it's a Cadillac Seville (supposedly G.M's creme de la creme) Cadillac Sevilles are not inexpensive cars and you're telling me the water pumps only last 4 to 5 years, yet I know people with 10 year Toyota Camry's whose water pumps are still kickin.

Cadillac could be better than it is. They should not expect to price it at the top of the market either.

No, you're absolutely correct, they shouldn't expect to price their cars outlandishly. They're the ones always claiming they can run neck and neck with BMW, Mercedes and Lexus, yet they want to hang onto their cheap plastic interiors and according to you, water pumps that last 4 years. All this for top dollar? Puhleeez.

I think that GM is making all of its vehicles better, slowly bit by bit.

Slowly bit by bit isn't acceptable when it comes to that corporation, G.M. was first faced with formidable competition over 30 years ago, and you're saying slowly but surely they're gettin' there. What is taking so long?? All this folks, from a corporation that wants its most famous and elegant nameplate to be the "standaard of the world" again. Whatever that means. I'm not sure if it ever was the standard of the world, a fad perhaps, but I don't think it was ever the standard

snakeweasel

the "Box on wheels" thats flying off lots

Just because people buy them doesn't mean they are pretty. FWIW I see very little of them on the street so at least around here they are not flying off the lots. tC's and xA's maybe but not the xB.

autoboy16

but also concider the fact that GM has many brands like: Chevrolet, Saturn/Opel, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, saab, Isuzu, daewoo, and GMC (am i forgetting anything) versus toyotas 3: Toyota, Lexus, and Scion. Honda is also on its way up with only 2.

-Cj

snakeweasel

Yeah I saw that video, no mine has been running like a champ. I don't know who said he abused it (this is a very busy forum and sometimes when I get to it there are up to 50 or more posts so at times I just scan over it), but I was wondering if he did so. My nieces boyfriend likes to modify cars and engines and offered to do my V to give it more HP. I wisely said no thank you. Back in the 80's I had a friend who tried to install some aftermarket device (turbocharger I think) to boost up his HP on his car, he screwed up the engine and the manufacturer rejected any warranty claim on it.

If that would of happened to a Lexus driver I could only here the excuses.

How true.

imidazol97

>not be the best looking thing on the road but is far from the worst (Pontiac Aztec comes to mind).

I really have to disagree with you here. This is awful. It embodies the ugliest shape combined with plastic cladding to make it look like something it isn't-sporty.

Understand I do think the Aztek is way down there, so we agree. It's just the TRD looks like, well, a ****.

I dare say if this were to have come from GM, people would be ridiculing up one side and down the other. Only a foreign brand could put this out and have a select group push it as 'progressive.' The boxy shape of the xb's is totally unaerodynamic and ruins gas mileage at anything other than city speeds, which is where I've seen most of them. I have seen a few bouncing along at highway speeds with terrible suspension bump-handling patterns. I've seen several with for sale signs parked around my rural/suburban area.

autoboy16

:P dude, come from under that rock. they are there but you are probably too busy shielding your eyes from them than noticing they're there.

The xB is more practical than many GM vehicles. It may be ugly but its sales more than make up for it. Other than its ugliness, what reason is there not to buy it? Too fuel efficient with is 3*mpg, too underpowered with 105hp coming from a 1.5l engine being upgraded to the tCs 2.4 in the next model, or too square then check out these specs! Its ok not to like it but please, if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all .

-Cj

louiswei

Well y'alls immigrants are much different than some of the ones I've met because the ones I've met told me they drive an american car because they are so thankful and blessed to be here

Thankful and blessed to be here, YES. Does that equal to buying domestic cars? Not so much.

At my recent trip to Atlanta's China Town and Asian Square I see 70% of the cars there are Asian, 20% are European and 10% are American.

imidazol97

>GM needs to make a better, faster, more agile, and better mpg car?
Easy. JUST DROP THE WEIGHT

Does the weight have to do with properly engineering the car to withstand crashes from various compass points? It's easy to engineer to meet certain frontal half crashes and side crashes when you know the shape of the striking object. It's different to engineer for general safety.

I think of the old pickup trucks with solid bumpers and straight frames that would hit something and not even be damaged. The different now is the deceleration of the occupant relative to the vehicle parts and the differential between their speeds at their impact times. The Mercedes highly-touted box-around-the-passenger design from the 80s comes to mind. However the fed standards and IIHS standards look more to the relative impact speeds and occupant damage than to the residual integrity of the passenger comartment.

So is weight available to be removed?

snakeweasel

I give you perhaps the Sexiest car EVER to come into production

Thats debatable.

600 horsepower Cadillac CTS-V

honestly that is overkill, I have 400 HP and thats rarely used.

"V" me as my next car,

I hope you enjoy yours too. But to be honest I am not interested in the super V.

cruising at a buck-eighty in 5th gear

Are the new ones going to be a 5 speed? Currently they have a six speed manual.

I would take great pleasure in owning the fastest production sedan ever made and making BMW M3 and M5 sedan's look like camcords !!!!

M3's and M5's are really no issue for my V right now (unless I mess up the shifting).

autoboy16

I'll take a BLS in black or dark blue exterior and a deige interior with the 1.9tid diesel. Oh and a sunroof!





-Cj

imidazol97

>the water pump within 4 years is to be expected?This is where G.M. effectively has its customers brainwashed.

I understand Camry has replaced many transmissions and parts of transmissions trying to satisfy the customers who realize there's something wrong with their tranny. That's at LOW, LOW mileage.

Life of a waterpump would depend on number of miles driven. If I drive 50K a year, it should go 200K mi? Gimme a break. Someone is talking through their ear. I've never replaced a waterpump on a GM car since 1981 Buick Skylark. Trade 93 at 158,000 miles. Have 150,000 miles on 98, and 50K mi on 03. I certainly consider waterpumps and alternators and brakes and tires parts that have variable failure times--just like my computer hard drive I'm fussing with and the little fan on the CPU cooler for the PIV 3.2 GHz has been rough. Company sent me a replacement.

Our friend had a 95 Civic which she thought was wonderfully built. Waterpump went out on it; I'm guess at about 75K and 2000. She bought it used. Wouldn't start at least two times and she called me over. Seemed to be some wonderful engineering used by the builder in the ignition system. Eventually it started. Battery went out in 2003. Mediapushy woulda' thought it should last 12 years, I guess. Ceiling kept falling down behind the rear seat. I finally stapled it up for her. Engine idled rough. It was bouncy despite realatively low air pressure in tires.

She replaced it with a Corolla which I drove and found it had less bounciness but had an off center seating position behind the wheel along with a bad floor shape for your feet to rest on. The driver sits off to the left of steering wheel or something and I'm average height and my feet weren't comfortable anywhere. She's taller and seems to just accept this.

I don't know that it has the awful transmission shift and flare problems Toyota has been going through for some years and is becoming another sludge disaster for Camry. Camry Problems . I don't take delight in Camry having had to work like the devil to PR these problems, but it does show all cars have some problems. I especially like the post someone made about Toyota having secret work done to avoid having to do recalls in past (eight?) years, and now having met a change in Federal rules about what requires recalls and having to make recalls the public way. It's really rough on your Suzanne Summers image when the light has to shine on your warts.

snakeweasel

they are there but you are probably too busy shielding your eyes from them than noticing they're there.

Oh I notice them, how can you not notice something so ugly? Its just that there are not that many people around here willing to be seen in one.

The xB is more practical than many GM vehicles.

Thats an irrational statement as practicality is based on needs and since every ones needs are different what is "practical" for some is not for others.

Too fuel efficient with is 3*mpg, too

Its in the low 30's and since my much older more station wagon with a larger more powerful engine gets about the same highway mileage I would expect it to get more.

too underpowered with 105hp

Yep.

being upgraded to the tCs 2.4 in the next model,

Oops there goes the gas mileage the TC gets about 8-10% worse gas mileage. Add to that that boxy unaerodynomic body expect it to drop more.

or too square

Yep makes it ugly. The specs are meaningless to be since I cannot drive that thing anyway.

imidazol97

A major problem with the Box of many cars is that the gas mileage may be fine-tuned for the EPA tests to give a relatively high, but unrealistic, figure at 50 mphs average.

But when that thing hits the road to Nashville like I did a couple weeks ago at 68-78 mph, it ain't gonna do 25 mpg. My LeSabre averaged 31 accord to the computer. I do drive smoothly so others might not have done as well and traffic was light until I65 between Louisville/Nashville.

I understand some antiestalishment image is in the Xb along with a little 'cute' like the element. And if someone gave me one in a contest, I'd keep it and drive it a while. (I won a Mustang Pacecar after I'd sworn I'd never own another Ford after a 73 Torino Windsor motor. That led to lots of kidding from friends. I kept it 9 months and sold it to a person lusting after one with an open checkbook.) But I believe there are other body styles for me.

autoboy16

no as in 30city and 33highway both get mileage in the 300s. Almost 400 on highway. Not bad for that small 11gallon tank. Its weight is (rounded to) 2400 pounds. Thats why it zips around like it does.

-Cj

snakeweasel

I know what the mileage is on that car, again my heavier car with a more powerful engine with 140K miles does 33 highway. I would love to see someone achieve 33 highway on that car.

And here is the thing about gas mileage, this xB has a highway mileage that is 10% more than its city mileage. Most other cars get 30% or more better gas mileage on the highway than the city. With a EPA rated 30 city the highway should ne approaching 40.

Its shape is killing highway mileage.

louiswei

Since this is a GM forum, in order to make GM look good all y'all have to do is bash Toyota/Honda? I am just confused by many posts are caught up in the "Toyota is not as good as it looks" mentality. This is a GM forum after all right?

In other words, GM has NOTHING left to be improve. It's pretty much "down with the imports". I have seen well over 50 posts in this board and only ONE has offer suggestion to Caddy about how to be more competitive. Guess what, that post was from ME (see post 1293), the so-called biased import lover.

Is it really true guys, that GM, or Cadillac in this case has no room for improvement? Is GM really that perfect?

I can see GM destine to be doomed if the top dogs are surrounded by bunch of cheerleaders like a certain member of this board.

snakeweasel

Since this is a GM forum, in order to make GM look good all y'all have to do is bash Toyota/Honda?

Well whenever you say "A" is better than "B" you have opened the door for examining how good "A" actually is. Since GM has been compared to Toyota/Honda then how good Honda/Toyota is is open game. So its not a case of bashing them to make GM look good, but an examination of certain facts (either stated or implied) that they are that much better than GM.

Is GM really that perfect?

No one is perfect and thats just the point. There are people out there that will say no matter how good GM gets Toyhonda will always be perfect. All we are doing is challenging that concept, they are not that perfect and they have thier problems.

imidazol97

>Since this is a GM forum, in order to make GM look good all y'all have to do is bash Toyota/Honda? I am just confused by many posts are caught up in the "Toyota is not as good as it looks" mentality. This is a GM forum after all right?

Soooooo, all some people are so satisfied with their Honda/Toyo products, they come around to troll the GM discussions with only negative flames? That in itself is suspect.

The reality is all cars have problems, some more at times than others. But why do HOtoyers come to troll in GM discussions? Rather than just discuss or add to the discussion?

louiswei

Serveral points:

1. Toyota/Honda is not perfect, as matter of fact I would love to discuss their flaws in an appropriate place. BTW, this is coming from a Toyota/Honda/Lexus owner.

2. The topic intrigues me and since I do have suggestion to offer that's why I am here. I see myself in the compact luxury sedan and midsize luxury sedan market for the next 20 years to come so since Cadillac has entries in these segments it is in my own interest to come and check it out.

3. If it's not for the so-call "biased import lovers" this place will full with "hail to the GM" posts. Is that what you really want?

4. Any suggestions to GM/Caddy? No? Anybody? Hello?

5. Last but not least, competition is good, let's try to keep that in mind.

Mr_Shiftright

The debate between GM and Toyota reminds me of the joke about two guys being chased by a bear...one remarks that they can never outrun a bear, and the other says "I don't have to outrun the bear, I only have to outrun you".

So you don't have to be perfect to be #1 in the car world, you just have to be better than anyone else.

So far at least, I think the bear has been gnawing on GM's market share for 30 years now.

Looking at it soberly, if a company continues to lose market share year after year, you know what the eventual outcome will be.

So they'd better figure out how to run faster than Toyota. Not faster than LAST year's model, but faster than NEXT year's model.

62vetteefp

JD Power Brand Perception survey. This is what people think about these brands nationwide, not just in one biased region(LA or Detroit!).

Surveys 6 categories:design, performance, quality, safety, technology and value. Toyota led by a large margin.

Top 6 winners
Toyota
Ford
Honda
Volvo
Chevrolet

sls002

The water pump has 54,000 mile on it. I would like to think that 75,000 would be a good life expectantcy. However, my 98 Aurora's water pump started to leak after 50,000 miles. The service manager said that the water pumps on the northstars last anywhere from 25,000 to over 100,000. My Seville is a second gen northstar, so perhaps it will last longer.

Please note that the Japanese cars usually get a new water pump when the timing belt is changed at 60,000 or 70,000; whenever the belt life is expected to go. The northstars have timing chains that last the life of the engine (since if the chain goes, the engine goes). In some cases if a belt goes, so does the engine.

sls002

see my comments to bumpy. Note that toyota engines had timing belts....

62vetteefp

So they'd better figure out how to run faster than Toyota. Not faster than LAST year's model, but faster than NEXT year's model.

May have just happened. The Aura was named #1 car of the year (over the new Camry) by a nationwide assembly of the press. Now lets see if that corresponds to the buying public.

Silverado got truck of the year (unfortunaltely the Toyota PU was not in the running because it is not out yet.

autoboy16

i agree with number 2! I would love to own a cadillac but the cts is to big for me. I want something that has between 160-220hp and only the acura tsx fits that description. Then i saw that beautiful cadillac BLS. But upon reading that it wouldn't be introduced in the us, i was heartbroken. Honda thought the same about its euro accord and gave us the tsx.

My current vehicle has 117k miles and 170hp. Not to mention its a FF vehicle and i don't want anything much bigger than it. No Camccords for me because they're EVERYWHERE!! I want a B segment vehicle(328i,c230,a4ect) and that where the BLS comes in.

I might just move to europe for it but why should i have to do that to get an american named vehicle. The whole american vehicle thing is vague as many newer gm vehicles are designed in germany (Think saturn/opel). Then dodge is partnered with the Mercedes and the 300/charger/magnum uses old e-class parts and suspension.

Also nissan builds its fullsize SUVS, trucks, and vans in canton Mississippi and they IMO show how good an american product can be. Come on, who else builds a 317hp 395lb ft of torque vehicle that can run on flex fuel? Many honda models are built in ohio also.

Thats why i say the BLS should be built and sold in the US to get those 3series sales. I think that many 3series buyers are woman that want a luxury/sport car thats small, fuel efficient, relatively inexpensive, and reliable. Thats why most BMW and mercedes sales come from the base entry level model. Only the acura Tl breaks this mold(outselling the tsx).

Do you see more Escalades, or tahoes/yukons? More Xlrs or corvettes? (The XLR is more practical and built on the same platform as the corvette right?)

-Cj

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah 75K-80K is reasonable time for component failure to start on most cars. This is when suspension gets weak, and possibly bearings in water pump/alternator, etc. I always tell people to ditch a car around 80K if it's an expensive luxury car. You're out of warranty and on your own with 5 or 6 year obsolete and complex technology.

RE; The Aura--- nah, nah, being #1 doesn't work that way. They have to put out a superior product that proves itself for 3 to 5 years in the marketplace and then they have to repeat that with the whole product line. "One Hit Wonders" don't fly in the automobile business. The graveyard is filled with dead brands whose last efforts were their very best cars.

autoboy16

Thats what I mean! The aura is european. Built and designed in europe yet sold in the US. Thats what I mean. Is it something about how americans build cars? The Nissan armada/Infiniti Qx56 are built in mississippi and have had brake problems through the a** and ar nissans most unreliable models. Same goes for toyota's camry vs saturn's aura. Where was the Aura Built designed? Its quality is outstanding!

-Cj

sls002

The northstar water pump is not expensive to repair. I think watching the coolant level is wise, and any sudden loss should be investigated.

autoboy16

Plymouth Prowler comes to mind...

-Cj

Mr_Shiftright

A dealer charges about $450 to do a water pump.

sls002

"- Need a real X5 fighter, station wagon on high heels like the SRX wouldn't cut it "
louiswei, I don't quite understand the high heels comment. Car & Driver compared the X5 with the VW Touareg, the Touareg won, and then the SRX won the comparison between the VW, Infinity and Porsche Big Box Sports Cars (November 2003). They said the SRX was the best combination of utility and driving experience.