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Comments
I couldn't disagree with this analysis more. Sticking just to the RL (I think Acura's differentiation in the lower TL segment is fairly understood and its leadership established through very strong sales and critical praise), I believe Acura has done a good job creating a product that is reasonably well differentiated from a very, very competitive segment. I would argue that the RL's differentiation is its all-around performance at a very reasonable price. The RL is not the fastest (but it's right up there), the quietest (perhaps tied for 1st or a close second), the biggest, or has the nicest interior, but the RL is close on all of these customer preferences with bundled technology at a superior price. It so-called value proposition is remarkable, cutting-edge technology and performance at a solid price point.
In short, the car has little "risk" to it, provided that folks are looking for an all-round performer.
If one is looking for more torque, then the M45 has that, but I don't think car has the classy looks or the fine interior that RL has. I think the M45 is going to age faster than the RL.
George, The Demo Disc came in a blue and black (3 page) album. Inside the 3rd page is printed copy that refers to the attached complimentary gift card. The only way you did not get the card would be if somebody removed the 3rd page. Check it out. The value of those discs are over $20 each... the web site address is http://www.fortune3.com/boseacura/...
(the tests revealed no abnormalities and I am back playing competative racquetball...thanks)
Jake
I've also owned BMW, Porsche, Nissan, Mazda, and a host of other domestic brands. Many worthy cars, but not quite to the level of my experiences with Honda/Acura. The former two were, as one posted said, maintenance "sponges." I had repair bills with my BMW 25 years ago that were as high as the biggest ones I get today.
As my daughter once quipped: "Many of my friends are TOYOTA people. I'm with others who are in the HONDA camp." She tools around with the '03 RSX I got her 2-1/2 years ago after she survived her overturned '01 Integra LS (total loss) without a scratch!
All of you out there that are critizing this car, well I feel for you if you can't love what Acura has done whith the 2005 RL. I looked at many of the others and I am sorry but the Acura is just the best in my opinion, what elas can I say. It does everything well, nothing is in excess and the look is pure Acura which I love!
Dennis
What gets me suspicious is that he has no justification for his claim outside of a nebulous "you'll cause engine damage if you drive with bad oil". My driving is typical 50/50 highway and city, car runs fine, good mileage (~ 20mpg average) and Dealer Boy couldn't show me anything wrong with the oil he changed (bad smells, metal shavings, etc).
I'm inclined to think this knucklehead just wants to double his maintenance fees but am curious whether other folks on this alias think the owner's manual / onboard diagnostics are to be believed more than Dealer Boy? (Not trying to start a "let's flame dealers" thread here: just curious what other people are doing for oil changes on their RL.)
Cheers,
ian
I must respectfully disagree with regard to the RL's price point. I paid MSRP in Mar '01 for an MDX and was thrilled with the deal. In June '01 we bought an '02 TL-S which solidified my perception of Acura as a "best-bang-for-the-buck" brand. We traded the '04 MDX for an '04 last year and to this day consider this '04 MDX the best vehicle (including value) we have ever owned.
This past March I became interested in the RL and after much research I am strongly leaning towards an M35. In my opinion the RL has too many flaws for the money. At $49,100 it is way overpriced and as a result Acura dealerships are now heavily discounting them. I know I can get one in Houston now for mid $44s; and I still consider that expensive - I absolutely can NOT consider the RL a "best-bang-for-the-buck" vehicle.
And I agree that from an owner's perspective, that's what's important -- that you are happy with it. Whether I, or Adam, or Eve, or your neighbor is happy is irrelevant. I know you've been very pleased with your RL, and I'm happy for you. If you're happy, then you have made the right decision -- for you.
However, having said that, from an objective point of view, there is a not uncommon opinion and perception out there that the RL is overpriced for what it offers, including, whether justified or not, perceived status amongst the premium brands. I know, in Canada, many have and will balk at the $70K CDN admission. Part of the reason has nothing to do with the mechnical goodness of the car. It's whether consumers, in sufficient numbers, can equate $70K CDN with a V6 Acura, in much the same way people hesitate over the $100K VW Phaeton.
I have to relate again my conversation with a Acura sales rep at the auto show. I had barely opened my mouth to discuss the RL, when he blurted out, almost apologetically, that the car is expensive! I have no doubt the poor man must have had to answer numerous comments on the price, to the point where he's admitting it's expensive by reflex.
I think the irony in all this is that Acura more or less has put themselves under the gun with its own TL. The $25K CDN premium from TL to RL is a huge psychological barrier for many folks.
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not second-guessing your decision. Everyone has different priorities. As I said, I'm happy that you are happy with it.
Take care.
I can't help but have a soft spot for any Honda product, RL included. Honda blood runs thru my veins. My first car, as a 17-year-old, was a second-hand deep-red 1975 Honda Civic hatchback, with all of 52hp and 4-on-the-floor, and an AM radio with an aftermarket 8-track player, that I bought from my father for $1500. She was my ride all the way thru university. She was slow and noisy. (there is a joke I have in mind here, but my wife would kill me if I said it online :P )
It had a tricky manual choke. It stalled in the morning if the weather was wet. But damn, the thing was fun to drive! It had the throttle response of a motorcycle. I think it was probably the blueprint for what the Mini Cooper is today. But, bottom-line is, it made me a life-long Honda convert.
Otherwise, life is same as usual. I cannot yet afford the luxury of retirement, so I just try my best to deal with the daily grind. But Townhall is always an oasis in my day. Take care, and happy motoring!
Still no squeaks, rattles, etc.;
No dead battery due to not turning systems completely off;
No brake squeals;
Some pits in windshield and front-facing surfaces thanks to the many gravel trucks on the L.A. area freeways despite the Zaino treatment (this is a constant problem);
Live traffic works well in San Diego and San Francisco area as well as L.A.
I went to the new Acura owner's night at the dealer, and was the only new RL owner. All questions from the audience were basic things answered in the owner's manual, but we all got a car wash, food, and some gifts.
New 4.2 A6 (other guy in office) v. RL - A6 back to dealer for broken spring in moon roof (that's 3 A6 returns v. 0 for the RL). The company won't upgrade me to a Treo 650 for the Bluetooth, so obviously I have to look for another job.
Also, the car had plenty of power to spare on a trip to Mammoth and South Lake Tahoe over, I think, seven mountain passes. So, overall, I'm still happy with no complaints about this car. And, the Eagles' "Hell Freezes Over" 5.1 DVD-A sounds great on the system.
Anyone know what the cold tire pressure should be for the Michelin Pilots?
Incidently the 5.1 DVD High Definition surround sound Disc I selected with the coupon was "Mystic Moods ...HIGHWAY ONE". Think you would enjoy that one. I will check out the Eagles.
Stay safe on those LA freeways my friend. I was on them last March in a rental car during 5PM drive time...No thanks! Zaino treatment huh. I would need a lot more than that...maybe Spa treatments!
I'm happy for you that you are on the mends... and soon to be back behind the whee....
Best wishes....for an even speedier recovery than you might be expecting....
Larry6 (a happy 05RL driver).
"Best wishes....for an even speedier recovery than you might be expecting...".
Many thanks for thinking of me. I sat behind the wheel of my RL today and just fiddled with everything in sight!-;) A ruptured quadriceps requires weeks of therapy, post surgery. Though I've attained 90 degrees of flexion, I can't yet go from gas to brake...not even close. But my wife tools me around and will drive me to my 80th birthday party in Armonk next Saturday, being given by my wife and children.
The tires felt over-inflated so I had my wife drive the car back and forth so that I could bend enough to access the valves, at twelve o'clock position. Cold, I brought the pressure down to 32 front, 30 rear - and what a difference it made in the ride!!So, you see, I'm still keeping my hand in LOL!!!
Warmest regards to you, Larry.
Yours,
George.
Yes and yes. Even Audi knows they need a RWD platform; evidenced by their move to Quattro only for the new A6 and an eventual move toward rear biased AWD vs. the 50/50 split they currently have. I fully believe that Audi will be usurped by Infiniti before the end of the year; and if Infiniti keeps its momentum, BMW had better be looking over its shoulder as well. Take note that neither Mercedes nor BMW (and now Infiniti) has a FWD vehicle in its lineup. Audi can smell the rain and knows that a FWD based platform isn't going to cut it if you want to be a real contender in the luxury market.
I'm not biased against Honda/Acura. I've owned Honda products and my other half currently has two Accords. They make fine automobiles, but IMO they need to get a clue (as in, they're not looking at the market) when it comes to the luxury sedan market. Honestly now, outside of AWD, what makes the flagship RL above and beyond the flagship Accord EX V6 w/ Nav; especially when you get more room in the Accord?
Try driving or riding in both, then ask the question. I have, (I own the RL and have ridden extensively in a friend's Accord) and there's no comparison. The RL is head and shoulders above the Accord. The ride, handling, interior, quietness, luxury features, etc., etc.
Which luxury features does the RL have that are above and beyond what's available to an Accord EX V6 w/ Nav? I will offer up the Adaptive Lighting, rear sunshade, stability program, and AWD. What else is there that is above and beyond what's available to the Accord?
thanks..
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Well, if you keep dismissing all the RL's features, then, by your definition, there would be nothing above and beyond. You yourself have listed quite a few features not available on the Accord already.
It is simply not fair to compare the RL & Accord this way. If you're comparing based strictly value, I would venture to say that the Accord stacks up better than not just the RL, but likely every luxury brand on the market.
If there is a serious need to compare these - for all intents and purposes non-comparable, regardless of their heritage - vehicles, it certainly may be done in a comparo thread on the Comparisons board. We've had a request that it not be done here, so if anyone wants to pursue this subject, please do it there.
Thanks!
You're all missing the point. The point I'm trying to make is that Acura doesn't seem to be doing anything to set itself on a higher standard; meaning, there's little to separate it from its Honda cousins. Take Nissan/Infiniti, for example. Infiniti is far beyond Nissan when it comes to its luxury models versus, parent company, Nissan's mainstream models. Nissan is comprised of all FWD sedans, save for its trucks and the 350Z. Infiniti has no FWD cars now. Nissan offers no V8 in any of its cars, except its trucks/SUVs. Infiniti offers a V8 in all its cars, except the G35.
Now look at Mercedes. As of yet, it doesn't offer any of its "lesser" cars in North America except the C-class; no offense intended to C-class owners. But that being as it is, until this model year, the E-class was chasms better than the C-class, and the S-class is better still. Mercedes offers NO FWD vehicles here at this time (unfortunately, the A-class is on its way), and almost every car in its lineup can be had with a V8, including the C-class.
Now look at BMW. Granted, IMO, none of its cars is head and shoulders above their siblings, they're still all standard RWD and even the upcoming M3 will be able to be had with a V8.
Lexus is all RWD except for the Camry-based ES and RX. And all of its cars can be had with a V8 except for the ES and RX.
And when you get to the uber-luxury cars, it's RWD and V8+ only, baby.
Now back down to Acura, there's not enough separation between it and Honda. There's no V8 and no RWD. The best they have to offer is a stressed V6 w/ 300HP/260TRQ and a front biased AWD system.
What most of you fail to realize is that a V8 isn't just about bragging rights. It's about torque. It's about effortless acceleration. Luxury car drivers don't normally want to see the RPM guage screaming past 5,000RPM just to pass a car on the road or get up to speed from an onramp. Yes, the RL's V6 has as much HP as some of the V8s, but I challenge each of you to find another current luxury car V8 with a torque number as low as the RL's.
It [Acura] needs a V8, RWD, and more separation between it and Honda to be a real contender in the luxury segment.
We see your point. However, many consumers continue to disagree with your opinion. More than 75% of sales in the LPC segment are comprised of 6-cylinder cars. In addition, the over-riding trend within this segment is to go AWD, not RWD.
Some suggest that if people could afford to pay for the V8, they would go that route. I couldn't disagree more. I think many people would continue to choose the 6-cylinder, regardless of price. There's nothing inherently necessary about delivering high torque, high horsepower, and low RPMs.
Don't get me wrong. I personally love to drive very fast. But that doesn't necessarily equate to high torque, RWD, or getting to 60mph a second sooner.
Acura remains a relatively small player in the LPS segment due to a variety of reasons. No time to get into those many reasons today. Someday they will offer a RWD/V8 car, and I will applaud them for that. That may lead you to better respect Honda/Acura, but it won't change the fact that 75+% of RL sales will continue to be V6.
I disagree that Acura as an "also ran." I also don't believe Audi is an "also ran." Having different options and flavors in any automotive segment is a good thing. How boring it would be if every LPS car offered the same specs as an Infiniti M45. The differences in styling, ergonomics, design, handling, "cache" (or "veritas" according to Automobile Magazine), quality, practicality in all seasons, comfort, and a hundred other intangibles are all qualities to be scrutinized.
Not enough separation? :confuse: There's about $14,000 of separation :surprise: :shades:
My question for the board is; the numbers I have fully equiped are between $200 and $300 dollars different a month. The dealers have been a little more flexible with the RL's but it is still a lot of money.
I have never driven an acura but I want to know the boards opinion on how much better they feel the RL's are?
Thanks,
djocks
I think you just have to go drive each and figure out which, if either, is right for you.
I used to own an '02 TL-S and almost traded it for an '04 or '05 TL. We've also owned two MDXs (old '01 and currently an '04); I have always viewed Acura as a "best-bang-for-the-buck" manufacturer. I have test driven the TL several times and have gotten them as loaner cars during MDX servicing. I've also test driven the RL several times and am currrently debating a new car purchase - either an RL or an M35.
My biggest hang-up with the RL is I think it is overpriced; even at steep discounts down to Invoice (~$44K). There is no way I can consider the RL as a "best-bang-for-the-buck" vehicle and thus that is at odds with the way I view Acura. Do I think the RL is fine car? Yes! Do I think it is better than the TL? Yes! Do I think its $10,000 better than the TL? Emphatically No! And therein lies the problem with me.
I read everywhere that RL is overpriced because it is 10K over the TL. M35 is also 10K more than a G35 but people say it is bargin. So why M35 is not overpriced again?
I come down firmly on the side of the RL. I drove a 99 RL for 5 1/2 years before buying the 05 RL. I test drove the TL several months before the 05 RL came out. It was a very nice car, but I didn't think it compared to my 99 RL and definitely don't feel it compares with the 05 RL. There are four major reasons I like the RL better: 1. AWD 2. Keyless entry 3. The steering wheel that glides up and out of the way of my long legs and 4. It's quieter.
Is it $10,000 better than the TL, it's all subjective.
Hmm....interesting assessment, especially considering the old RL sold about as well as bin Laden masks on Halloween. :confuse:
That's because many people couldn't get past the drab styling. It was still a very nice car.
Ok
#1 AWD, I can see that; snowy and icy in Nebraska
#4 Quieter, well ok. Maybe different tires in the TL will quiet it down, but ok the RL is quieter.
#3 Steering wheel moving out of the way, you must have really long legs for this to be a purchase decision
#2 Keyless entry??? I’m lost here. You’ve based your decision for an est. 50K automobile on the method that the door locking mechanism works?
I’ve heard and know of people that based automobile purchase decisions on colors, and wheels, and the types of seats, but Keyless entry? I admit I had to read it a few times to try and discern if you were being facetious or if I simply misread it.
To me, this is the equivalent of purchasing an automobile (stating simplistically since obviously this was not your sole purchase criteria) because of an automatic radio antenna.
I would rate the RL over the TL based on
1. hp
2. handling
3. awd
4. panache / exclusivity
ultimately is your $’s, so more power to ya
I no longer live in Nebraska, I live in the DC area. However, we get snow in the winter and heavy rains in the summer - AWD helps navigate both. Also, AWD is just a joy to drive.
#4 Quieter, well ok. Maybe different tires in the TL will quiet it down, but ok the RL is quieter.
Yes, it is.
#3 Steering wheel moving out of the way, you must have really long legs for this to be a purchase decision
Yes, my legs are 3 ft long and I have a bad right knee. I drove a 90 Legend for 8 years - I loved it, but by the time I traded it in on my 99 RL, the steering wheel was a major part of the reason I went with the RL instead of the TL. Now that I'm over 50, I would not have chosen the TL over the RL for that reason alone.
#2 Keyless entry??? I’m lost here. You’ve based your decision for an est. 50K automobile on the method that the door locking mechanism works?
I didn't say I based my decision on this, I said it was one of the features I liked about the RL. And when I have a day that I'm in and out of my car a dozen times, it becomes a very nice feature, indeed.
Also, the four items I mentioned are the tangibles, there are many intangible things about the RL that I can't put into words. Overall, I just like it much better than the TL.
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Uh keyless entry is much more than a door locking mechanism :confuse: Your comments (especially the radio antenna remark) seem more directed toward a simple remote key fob than the RLs "intelligent" key.
I have the Intelligent Key on my FX35 and have grown quit fond of it. I need never remove the keys from my pocket; I simply push the button on the door and then the button on the dash to start. This is especially a nice feature when you are carrying items, like a briefcase, a travel mug, packages, etc. I can only image how much a woman would appreciate it - never having to fumble for keys in a purse.
Is it an absolute necessity - I'd have to say YES an vehicles $40K and up :shades:
I own '05 RL since november, and thus far after 10k miles, there is no way I would exchange it to anything else.
Quite a few people posted that acura needs V8 - IMHO it does not, - why bother, V8 will chew up quite a bit more gas and realistic return is only low end end torque below 2K RPMs. When RL goes above 4500 RPM which is something you need rarely (standard gear ratio gives you 2100 rpm at ~80 MPH) you can feel the power thats more likely then not will almost match performance of a V8. In addition, if you need a race car, dont get RL, it is not. It has quite a bit of power, extremely good handling and sufficient number of gadgets to satisfy any curious geek...
In short, I drove BMW 530I, i drove G35 and I would hands down choose RL all over again.
Wouldn't YOU want to control WHEN the car gets locked up?
How would the car know you just want to retrieve something NEARBY and return. or If you go to the trunk to take out the stroller for the grand daughter before taking her out of the back seat.
I've never had a problem with the RL's smart key and find it to be useful particularly if we are in a hurry. I have it set to unlock ALL the doors. (She likes that too---no waiting)
I always disliked silver painted plastic, which is exactly what comes in G35, and I cant guarantee 05'RL will outperform and outmaneuver G35 AWD on any given day.
>> Luxury car drivers don't normally want to see the RPM guage screaming past >> 5,000RPM just to pass a car on the road or get up to speed from an onramp
Learn about the car before posting - I rarely move up to 5000 RPM, mostly in 3-4 range when doing reasonably hard acceleration on a ramp or across busy street.
At ~4500 RPM VTEC open up fully and you get a kick of power. besides, take a look at power curve, 90% of the power is delivered between 2000 & 5000 RPM the curve is flat (260@5000) vs G35 (280@6200) . Could a V8 do better; more then likely, but enough to warrant 5-6 MPG reduction hardly. On a pure highway @75 MPH I can get 29-30 MPG.
And lastly - why in the world would you convert from AWD to RWD? And do you think if I do that Acura will sell me a bag of salt or sand to put into my trunk come winter; I live in the mountains and regularly seeing my fellow BMW and MB owners loading up with bags of sand ....
I would prefer that it automatically lock when I, and the key fob, get a certain distance away. I've had to walk back near the car on a number of occasions and activate the key fob lock to make sure it was locked because I couldn't remember whether I locked it or not.
My coworker who got rid of his 530, with traction control, would totally disagree with you. On those few occasions when we got snow, he couldn't go anywhere. He lived at the bottom of a small hill and even with traction control he couldn't get up the hill in the snow.
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