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Lincoln LS

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  • petdoc1petdoc1 Posts: 7
    I went Saturday and looked at LS's at our 2 local Lincoln dealers. I live about 15 mins south of Nashville. Thought something seemed sort of strange. They had as many 2000 models still sitting in new car inventory as they did 2001 models. The one dealer has 4 2000 models and 5 2001 models. I'm trying to see the difference between the two model years. What would be the major differences? The salesman pointed out a few cosmetic differences on the interior. Are there any notable differences that would make the 2001 a significantly better choice? The sales manager came out and basically said to make him an offer an any of the remaining 2000 models. 3 of the 4 have the sport package. 2 are parchment (I think that was the color), one is black and the last is a pearl color. All 4 were just shy of a 40k sticker price. There seems to be some pretty knowledgeable people on this board, so what would you guys advise me to "offer" for one of these cars and not get laughed and thrown from the dealership?? Haha
  • There were several TSB's that I saw that were relevant to some of the 2000 models, transmission, rear windows, etc... Since they are there, you shouldn't have an issue with getting them addressed if they do arise in your vehicle. One other feature about the 2001 is the 3yr/36Kmile complimentary service, an added benefit, and the service intervals are 5Kmiles for 2001 vs 3Kmiles for 2000. If this little added benefits make a difference, you should go for the 2001. 2001's also have enhanced cupholders and different package options than 2000's.

    Best thing to do is wait for month or quarter end, then go in. Most Sales managers/people are likely paid on monthly/quarterly sales, so you can better negotiate on these days. Best thing to do is research your payment options, buy vs lease, and work out your expected payments for each. If you want more thoughts on either option, let me know which and I can give some insight?

    Best thing to always do is try started near invoice pricing, check the Edmunds TMV and work from there. TMV for my vehicle, 2001 V8 with moonroof, Audiophile system, and premium wheels was $37,500. I negotiated down to $36K. Dealers get fleet pricing usually, which is below invoice, so the 2% holdback on invoice is usually greater, including incentives which are likely going on now since car sales are way down. If it were me, I would offer 5% below invoice for a 2000 model. Mostly because dealers are motivated to move the inventory if it has been costing them money to hold the inventory. This depends on their financing though, many dealers actually finance their inventory, so this may not work. However, if one of the 2000's is used, then you can work this plan.

    As you can see, a lot of variables. If the dealer laughs when you offer a low price, then they are likely not motivated. I had this happen when I bought my 1996 Taurus. Told one dealer I wanted to spend $17K, $3K under invoice, he said I would never get that. A couple of dealers later, I drove off with what I wanted. Be diligent. I drove back to the original dealer to show off, he wasn't happy :-).

    Jeff
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    I know what you mean. When I picked up my 2001 LS in mid-Feb, the dealer had about 1/2 dozen 2000s, maybe 8 or 10 2001s. There definitely are deals to be had on the 2000 model year. My delaer had "$6000 off" in the front window of the 2000s. Previously it had been $3000, $4000 and $5000. So I would estimate they're up to $7000 or more off the sticker on the 2000s. Meaning just shy of $33K for a very well-equipped V8 LS. Pretty good price. I almost bought a left-over 2000 V8 myself. But my wife and I finally decided that we wanted the 5 speed manual. Since they're rarer than a chicken on fox hill, I had to order mine.

    There were a few first-year bug issues with the 2000s. The only one I would worry about is the "51mph drone" as that's the only bug they haven't got a definitive fix for, altho it's rare in the 2001s. The drone sound appears under light acceleration at that speed. Test drive carefully and listen. Many 2000s had adjustable headrests for rear passengers. Early ones may even have the audiophile radio with the sports package - an unavailable combination since early 2000.

    Course the 2000 is going on 2 years old, model-wise timeframe. But it is a new car, and your warranty would still have 4 years on it.

    The prices went up at least $1000 in 2001. So a $40K 2000 = $41K+ 2001. Edmunds TMV, probably a realistic price to pay for an LS, says $38,500 for a 2001 stickering at $41.3K.

    So $5500 or so more out-of-pocket for a 2001. (Or only $4000 or so more if you can negotiate a deal like Jeff, above.) For that you get current year, complimetary maintenance (3yrs), a different cupholder design, an extra power point and child seat anchors.

    Also, the recent 2001s have some new interior options available that the 2000s did not.

    So that's it, IMHO. Either choice is good and the car really is great.
  • giowagiowa Posts: 599
    I've got an '00 LS8 Sport w/AdvanceTrac, sunroof, audiophile, 6-disc CD, & heated seats. Now have about 29,000 miles. It was in the shop for about 3 weeks recently and I had an '01 LS8 base with no options as a loaner. Put a couple thousand miles on the loaner, including a roundtrip from Omaha to Tulsa. Biggest differences I noticed are that the '01 doesn't have the adjustable rear headrests (forgot to see if it has a full-size spare or not but thought it didn't; mine does, w/alloy rim); however, the cupholders are much MORE functional (we were able to fit in odd coffee cups, mugs, Big Gulps, etc. that we can't in our '00) and there is a power outlet for the back seat, in the rear of the center console (which allowed the kids to readily plug in their CD player).

    If you travel a heck of a lot and with wife/kids, the '01s' changes make this a bit easier. But I love fact my '00 Sport has the full-size spare w/rim, rear headrests, & audiophile. If you want those items in the Sport then maybe go '00.
  • Maybe it's just the flat-perspective press photo released today, but looking strictly from a side profile, this car does not say "Lincoln" to me. I've been joking with my friends that it looks like something Cruella DeVille would drive and I know L-M wants to avoid any association with a Deville of any sort.

    I much preferred the Motor Trend artist rendering of the Lincoln suicide-door convertible with some of the '61 styling cues, FYI. Hey, why not add suicide doors to the current LS and make that a convertible? Who's making a four-door convertible these days? :)

    If you need a market research guy in the very affluent Atlanta area, I'm your man. I work for a bank and know what all the new-generation bankers want to drive.

    Thanks, as always, for listening.

    Another die-hard LS owner,
    Steve Glauser
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Posts: 782
    I'd offer the dealer about $7,000 off of list for the 2000 leftovers and as part of the deal, make them document that the recall and TSBs mentioned here and on LLSOC have been applied, if needed. There are some minor differences between the two years but I personally don't think that there is enough of a difference to justify the savings you could get.

    The only downside is that if you intend to trade the car in after a couple of years, you will be a year down in value.

    Brian
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    My 1.5 cents worth:
    It is difficult to see enough of the Mark 9 concept to offer an opinion but I, for one, would love to see a coupe on the LS platform.

    The concept drawing shown in Motor Trend is interesting - sounds like we are seeing some styling cues for the facelifted LS. IMHO, the styling cues would be a better fit for the Town Car or Continental. I would love to see Lincoln more competitive with those. A Continental on a stretched DEW platform with the 5.4 DOHC engine could make Lincoln a player against the Lexus LS 430, et al. It is a shame that in many markets Lincoln has to discount Town Cars and Continentals $10,000 off MSRP to move them.

    Like many others, I would like to see a bit more distictive front and rear end on the LS. A major change to the retro look isn't necessarily my first choice. I think it adds to the integrity of the brand when you maintain some identity from year to year even as sheetmetal is changed. Note that while a new Mercedes looks modern, you can sure see the family resemblence to a 1990 model.
  • johnnylincjohnnylinc Posts: 308
    The link below will take you to an Automotive News article about the Mark 9. Click on the photo and you'll go into a frameset with 7 pictures of the Mark. Click on the >>> arrows to flip through the photos. WARNING: Once I got into the frames, I couldn't get back here--you'll have to close the window and start over.


    http://www.autonews.com/html/main/nyshow/lincolnny.htm


    As a former Mark 7 & Mark 8 owner, I'm really jazzed that Lincoln has a Mark concept car at the show. I'm less jazzed that they used the Town Car platform, though--a DEW98-based Mark with the 4.6 four-cam Cobra engine (or the 5.4 suggested by brucelinc) seems much more logical.


    I'm especially jazzed that they used the absolute best color combo for a car: Black exterior, red interior! Booyah! :) The lipstick red seats are a bit much, but the rusty red on the steering wheel and dash would be a PERFECT interior color for the LS. Hope someone at HQ is reading this.


    JLinc, still not quite used to having his first 4-door...

  • petdoc1petdoc1 Posts: 7
    After reading your posts, I called the dealer back and tried to get a feel if between $7k and $8k off sticker would be a possibility. I could tell right off that he was going for it. I am going back first thing Saturday morning to discuss it further.

    Brian....you mentioned getting the dealer to document that the recalls and TSB's had all been performed. I have read on here about the shift problems that can be corrected via a flash update. What else should I ask him about?? You also mentioned being down a year if I intend to trade in a couple of years. I normally keep a vehicle between 3-4 years. Do you think it would drastically hurt me then? Since I am getting if (hopefully!!) for around $32-33k now.

    One thing on the '01 models that I really did like were the new 17" chrome sport wheels. I am leaning toward the black LS with light grey interior and those rims would be very sharp! Wonder how much the dealer would tack on to swith the aluminum wheels out to the chrome ones?

    Thanks again guys! John
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Posts: 793
    No, but as long as I get to keep the dual-zone climate control, it would be nice to have. I assume that is Lincoln's version of the nav/EATC/radio. Where did you find out about this? And since I have to ask, I probably wouldn't get it anyway :(
  • joe166joe166 Posts: 401
    Oh, you mean the interactive touch screen? Sure I have one. You mean they didn't send you yours? It was in the packing material that came with the champagne flutes. I almost threw mine out thinking it was just foam peanuts. Took me a couple of hours to figure it out, but now it is most useful. I thought everyone had one.
  • desertguydesertguy Posts: 730
    Much of the extra depreciation you get by buy a new year old model can actually be mitigated by the lower mileage you will have when you trade it in. The Kelly Blue Book gives a nice bonus for mileage which is much less than the norm.
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Posts: 793
    That's what was in the box in the box Wifey put in the garbarge! OH NOOOOOOOO.......
  • markls8markls8 Posts: 42
    Well now don't I feel like the big weenie. Yes, we also got that very nice leather Roots folio. It arrived with our (several months overdue)maintenance vouchers and we took it for granted and thought it was just part of that maintenance package. I'm glad I asked you about that. More practical than flute glasses, isn't it?
    I've had two black cars in the past and I found that black was very useful in helping me perfect the finer techniques in paint treatment, waxing and maintenance. All the nuances (swirl marks, direction of rubbing, not washing or waxing in the sun etc) become evident very quickly, although probably more in those pre-clearcoat days than today.
    One question I have - doesn't claying actually remove a small amount of the clear coat exposing fresh underneath?(implying a finite number of clayings?) Or maybe I'm splitting hairs here.
    Regards - Brian.
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Posts: 793
    It's something that shouldn't need to be done too often, maybe once a year. I've done my '96 Sable about 4 times and my LS twice. The purpose is to remove the gunk that has stuck to the surface. It works VERY well as long as you keep the surface lubricated. I use the Mothers California Gold clay bar. When I took delievery of my LS the surface felt like sandpaper. After claying the paint feels as smooth as glass! I am also a recent convert to Zaino. Even on my silverfrost, the shine and depth are unbelievable! As long as you keep a good coat of wax on the finish, contaminants shouldn't stick.
  • karzzkarzz Posts: 151
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    In an apparent effort to screw up a good thing, Edmunds has drastically changed the way they present information about a car in the new car section. Has anyone noticed this? My question is: who can I write to to tell them just how pathetically poor the new way is compared to the old system?

    Example: Old way - choose car make, choose model. You are now on a *single page* that has all the information you need about the car, including a fairly comprehensive writeup, a complete list of options, their contents and their prices, the base, invoice and 'TMV', pros, cons, and more.

    New way - choose car, choose model. You are now on a page that has a brief writeup and little more. Want pricing info? Find the little 'price' selection. Click. Then you wait for another page which has *only* base pricing. Want options? Another click brings up a small window. You must enter zip code and a BS color selection before you can click again to see the options. But all you see is a name, ie: sport package, and the price. Want to know what's in the package? Another click, another wait. ***One click and wait for each and every option.*** Yada yada.

    Good grief. It worked great before. Now it's a rroyal pain. Who bought this software? I've got a nice bridge ...

    Rant mode off.
  • reneleblancreneleblanc Posts: 144
    At the Edmonds home page an annoying extra little window pops up bragging about all the improvements made. At the bottom of this window is a link for feedback. I think you have some?
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