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Comments
I am not picky about color, so I am flexible on that.
Thanks!
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Bill
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
So basically now the world has moved on and "invoice" numbers aren't real anymore since generally you can sell at $500-1500 BELOW invoice????
Haven't bought a car in almost 4 years and I know the internet continues to pressure changes....
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
How much better do you think it gets if I wait till Thanksgiving time or early December? I guess I'm not in a huge rush, but I also don't want to keep waiting months and months just to save $100.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
contact gary @ boch
When I bought my Odyssey in 2010, I called numerous Honda dealers here in Chicago, then worked those that seemed most aggressive to find a low price at which others just said No. I felt I got a great price vs invoice (although now I see that invoice these days is probably inflated) and also vs other prices being posted on this board. I called it the Hogan Method.
Can you clarify something in the "Brian Method"? AM I SUPPOSED TO APPROACH THESE DEALERS WITH A NUMBER MYSELF FIRST? That isn't what I did on the Odyssey, well not at first at least. I found the couple lowest quotes, then went back to those that were higher and "stretched them" to see if they would leapfrog, by throwing out a LOWER number than my lowest current bid. I'd play naive like "hey Dealer 5, you said your lowest was $31,000, and I just wanted to tell you that I have another verbal offer at $30,650 and I'm gonna head over there this afternoon. Hopefully they don't pull some trick, but otherwise I'll be buying the car for that price it looks like"
My thought was that it would be like catnip if a dealer actually COULD BEAT the 30,650 then it would be in his best interest to jump right there and say "don't go to that other dealer....if you come to me I'll beat that offer" since it would appear to him that this was his last chance because in 3 hours I'd have signed papers at a competitor. The gray area was my stretching the truth by a few hundred dollars below the lowest bid I had received on round one. Lie? I guess yes. But I felt I had nothing to lose since I still had the lowest bid as my backstop, so if I tested the waters of some of the higher dealers to see if any react to beat that price, then I'd know I hadn't found bottom yet.
So basically my strategy was to ASK FOR QUOTES first, lay them out, see what the lowest was and if there was any clustering, set aside the one or two lowest dealers (don't dick around with them at this point since you were most likely to need them) and go back to the others with the "thanks for your time, just wanted to let you know I found the following price which I'm planning to buy, and I guess I'll catch you in 5 years when I buy my next car...."
So then what is the BRIAN METHOD? Do you go into the sales managers/internet sales and just throw out a NUMBER yourself and say "if you can hit it, I will buy right now?" If so, I assume you are using a number that is sufficiently low so that you don't expect any will actually hit it? (but not SO low as to make it look like you have no idea what you're talking about). So if my EX-L car is 26,650 invoice, and we "think" that they are selling for 500 below invoice today, would I go in saying I will buy today for $25,500 if they can hit it? Or 25,000? Or 26,000?
I'm trying to think of the difference between the Brian Method and the Hogan Method so I can make a change if necessary. The Brian Method (again if I understand it) is to lead them with a number just low enough to draw them to a low bid, but not so low as to lose cred and not so high that you are leaving money on the table. The Hogan Method makes them believe that I am indeed about to buy from another dealer, meaning A) I am indeed a REAL BUYER TODAY and some other dealer actually gave me that number, and I'm not just making it up (although I guess I am).
I guess both methods may be very similar actually. Just depends if you take a first round of getting their quotes to see who is an aggressive dealer, or whether you throw down a number and see if anyone will hit it. Going in with your own number requires you to have a view as to the actual selling prices in your area, which could be harder to know unless you solicited the quotes first right? (unless you can really get enough good info through this site about recent EXL sales for example)
So sorry for the long post but can you just quickly confirm the key points of the Brian Method so I know how to use it? Thanks
Invoice price minus dealer hold-back minus dealerships doc fee's minus any dealer incentives and rebates. This is how i arrive at a target price.
As you get deeper in that buying year you will notice prices getting lower than this number. dealer incentives and rebates from the company contributes to this.
I have bought close to a thousand vehicles for myself, family and friends taking so called dealers holdback money, dealers doc fee plus hundreds less than that number. Is Invoice price a true number? i doubt it
So what is a realistic target number in Oct for a 2014 model?
Invoice price minus dealerships doc fee charge.
my target price watching this board for a 2014 would be starting at
Invoice price minus dealer hold-back, minus dealer doc fee and working my best deal going back towards dealer invoice. This price would be hard to get by emailing dealerships only. dealing directly with each dealerships internet manager is how i close my deals quickly.
supply and demand and your area contribute to pricing.
reading thru these boards help you determine pricing.
i pit one dealer against the next at the end. i let certain dealerships know who ther competition is and price. dealers know who sells cars and who dont. Thats why at crunch time they will ask you. Certain years and models are harder than other years. last yr was hard for a early 2013 accord buyer. This year prices have seem to loosen up for the 2014 model.
Negotiation skill/ knowledge of area pricing/ how and when to buy is the key to my success. Supply at any dealership is when you strike and can make a great deal.. Find those dealerships.
By having a target price helps you cut thru all that dealership nonsense and back and forth with pricing. its direct and you are in control of the negotiations. If you asking dealerships for his best prices you will never get prices like i'm getting or what your seeing in this forum. I will challenge every dealership for price.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
And lastly when you do this do you tell dealers I will buy right now at X or do you tell them I am looking to buy a car, contacting numerous dealers of which you are one, and in my mind the pricing should be around X.....there is a subtle difference and I'd think the latter is better ?
Oh one other thing,a few months back you posted a list of dealers in Chicago. Are those you've had best luck at personally? My closest is O'hare honda but they generally seem to stink. Last time I got a good deal from Honda of Lisle but I hadn't tried many of the names on your list. Or do you just use those further out dealers to try to anchor a lowest price and then get a closer one to match?
Here's what I see on Consumer Reports
2013 Accord EX-L : MSRP ($27,995) Dealer Invoice ($26,399) Holdbacks ($560) CR Bottom Line Price ($25,839)
2013 Accord EX : MSRP ($25,405) Dealer Invoice ($24,037) Holdbacks ($508) CR Bottom Line Price ($23,529)
I researched recently that I can get Altima 2.5 SL (with Navigation) in Dallas, TX at 25K (+TTL). Is it possible to get 2013 Accord EX-L
at 25K (+TTL) ? I know you mentioned to aim for 1500 to 2000 below invoice, but I don't see any incentive offered by Honda on CR website.
So I am not sure if 1500 to 2000 is still possible to get this vehicle.
So basically if I pick either EX or EX-L (will decide by tonight after test drive), what number should I throw at dealer if they force to sell the vehicle on a same day?
Please share your insight on this.
Dealer hold back on all honda models = 2% of base msrp
Base price on the 2014 exl model = 25860. 2% would be $ 517 in holdback money. You cant add destination charge of 790 into that number its not part of msrp.
As far as doc fee's.... if i cant get dealer to remove his doc fee charge i simply add it into my asking price making doc fee a wash on the bill of sale at the end of transaction,
Most dealerships i post on this web site i have purchased from them or had some involvement with them and found them upfront or willing to deal with me.
I could narrow my search down to 3 dealers this month A, B , and C . Buy from dealer A. Next month when looking to buy again dealer A wont meet my price dealer C will or another dealership might have better pricing. To me when you have many dealerships to choose from they are all the same. Best price gets my business. I service my vehicle when under warranty at the closest honda dealership to my house either in New york or Myrtle beach.
You start your buying process after your test drives and research is done. You make sure you have outside finance in place making every dealer match or beat your best rate. I start my buying process the 2nd to last day or last day of any month.... If your not as skilled as some of us you may want to start near the end of the last week calling /emailing dealerships internet managers. If your more comfortable going dealer to dealer use the same tips and advice while in each dealership. Just prepare yourself for alot of nonsense in most dealerships.
I cant recall the chicago post and i'm sure i have a few high volume dealerships on that list. try them all.
Target price below .......... this does not mean you could get entire number price but its your starting point to find out what your area pricing is. After 20 or more dealerships in your area are contacted you have a good idea where your best deal will lie.
2014 EXL w/ Dest charge=...................26,650
minus hold back...............................- 517
minus dealers doc fee........................-
minus any rebates/ incentives.............--
total........................................._________________
Above number is your starting target price to buy on that day you start your buying process.. Work up back to invoice price making your best deal at months end if you cant get your target price. Always be in control of your negotiations.
Your not always going to get the best prices you see posted in these forums. Supply and demand and area play a big part in this.. By buying any vehicle this way you will find out what your area pricing is . You will get the best possible price and deal and there is nobody that could of gotten you a better deal. This is how you buy a car.
Read thur some of Bluecars back posts he did very well for himself buying by phone / emailing dealerships before making his deal.
Let us know how you make out.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Doc fees may be variable in some states so dealer A might sell you a car at $20000 and add a $100 doc fee, but dealer B a few miles away might sell you a car at $19800 (which seems like a better deal) and then hit you with a $600 doc fee -- if you wanted to pay $20000 for the car then you would offer $19900 to dealer A and $19400 to dealer B or $19835 in IL for the car with destination fee plus tax/title/plates/doc (or $20000 with dest/doc fee plus tax/title/plates)
If you alrdy know a price that you're happy with paying then contact a bunch of dealers using their website and tell them the exact model/trim/trans/accessories you want and what price you'll pay with the dest fee (or dest & doc fee if variable): "I'm looking to buy a 2013 Accord blah blah blah with no accessories and I'm willing to pay $$$ with dest fee (or dest & doc fee) included plus tax/title/license(/doc). Let me know if you can make this deal happen"
If you don't have a price and want to see what's the lowest in your area then contact them with: "I'm looking to buy a 2013 Accord blah blah blah with no accessories. What's your best price with the dest fee (or dest & doc fee) included?" See which dealer gives you the best price and ask if they can lower it further. Reply back to other dealers and see if they'll beat the price: "The lowest price I have from another dealer is $$$, are you able to beat that price?"
You can ask them what promos/incentives are included in that price and you can also ask if flex cash is available if you plan on financing with Honda
I bought a new Civic a few years ago and contacted about a dozen Chicago area dealers using their websites -- I asked for their best price with dest fee included for the exact model/trim/trans I wanted with no accessories added on (didn't bother mentioning doc fee since its fixed). About half of them got back to me with a price and Carrs Honda gave me the lowest upfront price at that time (2nd lowest was Elmhurst dealer but $1000 higher). I knew no dealer would be able to beat that price so I bought it from them the next day along with the 0.9% financing that Honda was running at the time. Got the deal mid-month since they had not sold another Civic in over a week so they gave me a rock bottom price to get their sales number up
I am glad that doc fee is fixed in IL - makes it easier.
Last time I bought I did the calling around for best price, then negotiating, strategy. I guess the only difference in Brian's strategy is he basically is the first one to toss out a number, and he tosses out a number that should be BREAKEVEN to the dealer on an invoice/holdback basis (if true, then the dealer is making no money? and the only reason they're doing it is to make higher sales numbers?) So I guess he is deciding what is the lowest possible price they could conceivably take, and putting that out there. I assume from there, both strategies converge. Most dealers will probably not take Brian's low price but will counter with something.....and away we go. I guess with Brian's strategy vs. mine, you might be signaling that you know what the prices really are, while if I just ask for "best price" they need to decide if they're gonna screw around quoting $100 off MSRP just in case I am a fool......so maybe you cut to the chase more quickly.....
Good luck with your sale
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
This is unfair I think. I am waiting for your reply. Thanks.
This is unfair I think. I am waiting for your reply. Thanks. I also live in Florida. actually, in tallahasse but I can move to southern florida to but it.
I really need your help. please share the awesome information.
Have a great day.
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Selling Price: $27,901
Dealer Fee: $599
Flex Cash Credit: -$500
Total: $28,000
I was looking forward to a quick and efficient deal, given the internet manager's fast response rate. That all changed when I got to the dealership. He tried every trick to screw me over and in some instances won a few of them.
1) After confirming the vehicle was on-property and its added options via phone and email, I arrived to discover the car had another $3000+ worth of add-ons (aerodynamics package, chrome wheels, etc.) The car looked way too pimped for my taste. He said he didn't know it had all these things, despite it being parked in the showroom across from his desk! Dealer tried to get me to change color choices. I refused so he worked on trading with a dealer 60 miles away...while I waited.
2) During the wait, he evaluated my trade. Surprise! He tried to undervalue the car by a good $2,000. When I suggested to sell the car on my own and leave it out of the deal, he threatened to rescind the quoted price and the $500 flex cash. Mind you, he didn't even know I was bringing in a trade until I arrived today so I'm not sure how he intended to keep his end of the $28,000 bargain to begin with. (This is the point I should have walked out but I was tired and just wanted to get my car and go home.) Anyway, I pulled out a quote I received from Carmax and he begrudgingly bumped his offer up to compete...barely.
3) So we wait a little while longer and move to the Finance office. You guessed it. The original terms of the loan offer weren't honored. Despite my impeccable credit and an email confirming 0.9% at 36 months as well as being offered this verbally in front of a witness, they tried to rope me in at 2.24%. I objected and got him down to 1.9%. I'm only financing about $10K for 36 months so the interest isn't that big of a difference. But it's a matter of principle at this point.
4) At this point we're approaching the fifth hour at the dealership. The car has finally arrived (a three hour round trip for the trade-out) and is being detailed. I know I'll have to come back for the body side molding but I check for everything else. No wheel locks! Are you F-in kidding me?! Another sales guy joins in and tells me this car has nitrogen in the tires and that should be an equitable exchange. I told him that this was not the day for him to butt in after all I'd been through. Needless to say, the wheel locks will be added when I come in next week for the moldings.
So kids, I think I got a fair deal though it could have been a better one had I pulled the plug at the point he started screwing around on the trade. Can't wait to get the customer satisfaction survey. I can assure you I won't be buying from Honda Mall of Georgia again.
Best regards,
Q
For other shoppers - make sure you confirm everything in writing (email, bill of sale, whatever) BEFORE going to the dealer. Make them understand that if ANYTHING is not what was agreed to, you are gone and all bets are off.
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
So...just curious...Your "target price" is a dead zero profit for a store?
Forgetting about overhead, It sounds like you think car dealerships should be non profits?
Carry on....
Dealers overhead cost and how then run there business does not concern me. I want every penny in my pocket not there's
Dealership get over on alot more people than buyers like us in this forum.
Have no pity on them.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Obviously they are rational business people and aren't going to sell to me to LOSE MONEY unless there is some hidden reason (like a volume spiff - in which case they aren't really "losing money")
I totally agree with you - they will do what they'll do and we don't likely know all the details in the background (even though isellhondas would tell us there is no "secret invoice price").
When I bought my Ody I bought it for well below invoice and even the screen on the Finance Mgrs computer said so (I snuck a peek). I highly doubt the dealer LOST MONEY on me. And while I know they make money from selling warranties and other cr&p in the finance room pressure cooker, I also highly doubt they purposely agree to money losing sales on the showroom floor just HOPING that they'll get a guy to say yes to some of the cr&p....seems a risky strategy.....
SO using a 2% holdback and not counting destination in same, I get 28,017 for the DEALER'S ACTUAL invoice price of the EXL. So is a fair target 27,999 Brian? Or I guess if I know there is potentially flex cash in play, 27,500? We see another person just bought for 28,000 flat, and the dealer included the flex cash in that price so I guess the "real" price was $28,500 and the dealer made 500 bucks. Is that the right way to analyze that one?
Just reality, that's all.
" Dealership "get over" on a lot more people"
I guess in your mind, that means they made a decent (gasp) profit as any business must on order to stay in business.
I think I understand now. Money stays in YOUR pocket and not "there's".
Thank you for your explanation!
MSRP: 24505
Invoice: 22645
Accessories: 199 (Tint)
Final Sale Price incl Dest: 21360
TTL+ Doc Fee (6.25% in TX): 1,640
Total DRIVE OUT: 23,000
Pretty happy with my decision and an awesome driving/looking car!! As the 2013's dwindle down in inventory, particularly with models like the 6MT with a low take-rate, there will be sweeter deals as the year end looms. Thanks to all on this forum for helping me make it happen!
Just went to dealership today and got an 2014 Accord LX. OTD price is 227xx. Dealership is in San Bernardino county, don't think I can announce the name but its right off the Fwy 10
Break down as follow
Transportation Fee = 790
Documentation Fee = 80
DMV registration, Title and Tranfer = 2xx
Sale/Use tax for LA country (9 to 10%?) Sum all that up to 227xx
I also got to apply the College grad incentive from Honda so minus another 500 bucks. CSR said no flex cash but when I asked about that during financing, the guy said that is for dealer. I had originally pushed the OTD number to 22500 but since they didn't budge, I figured fighting for the flex cash will be hard.
Given the decent offer on the table, and that we were way past their store hours (2.5 hrs behind when we drove off the car), we just went ahead and closed the deal.
Hopefully this will help someone in the future. I want to thank you all the contributor on this forum, I had been reading it the past two weeks to learn what exactly what I needed to do and how to achieve, and I can say that my experience going through Internet Sales Manager is good, but must have a target number (before tax) to throw at them and make them work to earn your business.
Once getting a good number, then it's up to you whether to shop it more or not. I sort of did but it was getting late in the day so nobody bothered to reply to me, which was fine because my experience in this dealership was as good as it could get. I have been to other SoCal dealerships and all they want you to do is to go down there and discuss. I spent this past Saturday of this week at one ridiculous dealer that end up giving me MSRP + Fees + Tax after I spent 3 hours there. I could have find that number out in a matter of minutes!
so off I go, enjoying the most basic Accord, yet satisfies all my needs
Dealers prices. These so called msrp and invoice prices made up by the car companies to throw us consumers off on how much they really make per vehicle. Dont believe it.. Our good friend isell who likes to contribute will never break his code of brotherhood... Thats why i'm here to tell you the truth about dealerships and pricing. I post in here from experience. Deals like this one i have recieved time after time.
You all think your getting a good deal at invoice or 300 below invoice. The spread sheet says 500/600 below invoice is the dealers profit margin where he loses money. Never feel bad or take any salesman word about losing money on a deal. There not believe me.
If your firm and negotiate hard for your target price you most likely will get it or come close.
So how did joely get 1300 below invoice price on a 2014 model when the laws of the land say dealer is in the red about 500 bucks at that price.
The 2014 model year just started why would any dealer sell this low for such a loss..?
Cause we really dont know dealerships bottom line number on that vehicle. Car companies want you to use that pricing guide it helps all the dealerships. If they all stick together on that price guide dealerships stand to make the most profit. When some of the other dealerships who cant stay afloat defect from the price code is when you see pricing get better.
Joe you made a very good deal hope you feel bad that your dealership lost money on you..
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Seems like your sales price is around 20500 incl dest and doc fee - pretty good deal at around 1100 under invoice. Also, to clarify, you got another 500 off the out the door to make it 20,200?
Congrats and enjoy your new Accord.
Thanks, Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Yes it's Spreen and I worked with an Internet Sales Mgr named James, actual CSR/sales team is Allison/Jason. Must present/print quote/email exchanges from James to secure deal.
20532 (including destination fee), and plus 80 dollars documentation fee. That adds up to 20612
Minus 500 from college program (but this is after tax). This is the CVT model by the way
Just curious, in all experts' views, how were the chances of getting the flex cash throw into the deal? I don't think I have gotten to their "real invoice" part yet so they should still be profitable, but perhaps I wasn't prepared enough to press further
Consumers truly can never know a dealer's true cost. Consumers can be assured any price at which a dealer sells covers the dealer's pricing goals.
Those goals can be different between dealers at any time. That is why shopping multiple dealers is a good thing
Just bought a new vehicle. Went to one dealer who have an absolute low net sales price of $21,600. Salesman assured me that was the best net price I would find. Immediately went to a second dealer. Price for exact vehicle with same trade was $20,500. The difference was simply they had different goals.
As stated, a consumer should never believe anything a sales person states even on the Edmunds' forum. Having been on these forums for years it seems clear Isell is obviously a sales person. With such contributors it is wise consumers accept advice cautiously.
isell has been a member of these forums almost from the beginning in the late 1990's. He and I have agreed to disagree on multiple occasions over the years, but I respect his perspective on the business of selling cars.
I agree that caution should be applied to all posts, not just those from the sales side of the discussion. I'm sure there have been posts over the years from consumers with prices that are simply unobtainable.
Caveat emptor!
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
The only way to truly know what is the lowest price achievable at a given time, in a given market, is to introduce a proper auction process and make sure dealers see you as serious and not a pushover and not someone who is really more concerned about getting their car TODAY without much hassle and worry that they might have to wait another 24 hours to be separated from their new infatuation that they've just spent 3 weeks dreaming about! Because you can talk the talk about "I want best price etc" but a smart dealer can easily spot your "tells" like in poker, if you act worried that he only has one Red car on the lot, and what time do they close today and would it still be possible for me to drive it home tonight if I get down there by 4pm, etc etc.....
I think you gotta act serious and motivated....know the car you want and show that you know the true value.....but also show them through your actions that best deal is paramount and you are smart enough to know that there are other Red Accords out there, and the Honda factory is making new ones as we speak, and if you have to wait another 2 weeks to save $500, you're more than happy to do so.....just my advice
I sent out my emails inquiring about a 2013 EX-L. I'm starting to get responses and many are telling me they don't have what I'm looking for and are pushing me toward the 2014.
Initially I was looking at the 14 models, but changed my mind to '13 to save some money.
Here is what I just received on a '14. The CR target price on the 14 is around $27,653. I'm assuming that is not including doc, sales tax and title? I will probably just keep pushing for a 2013, but wanted to see what people think about this price on the 2014.
Price: 26,300
OTD: $27,753.46
EDIT: I asked about the '13 again and he said it would be $400 less than the '14.
You and billy's post i agree with. When you read these posts on either side of the sales front you should take caution and use common sense. Some prices could be........ bs........
I like to preach................ if you do a little homework and find your area's market price in your state which can be done by phone calls, getting email quotes or visiting dealerships is how you will know and get your best deal. How far you want to take this deal or make a better deal depends on your negotiating skills, and tactic's on buying. Having 2 or 3 dealerships involved in pricing is not the answer. What ever your preference is Trying for that killer deal or making a deal that seems in line with most.. This forum is where you can find helpful info on pricing and buying tips.. Use it to your buying Advantage with common sense.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Just to add your point about pricing in general. I am always baffled when some dealerships claim to have a no haggle pricing policy. That may be true, but it does not always mean that we (consumers) are getting the best price possible.
I do not mind haggling for a fair price, but I am not going to allow myself to be taking for a ride by a sales guy who wants to maximize his bonus for the month.
I understand that car dealerships need to make a profit to stay in business, but if more car salesmen were honest and truly offered the best possible price (It does not have to be the lowest price available in a particular market), then most consumers would not have to worry about figuring out dealer holdbacks, incentives, the best time to buy, etc...
At the end of the day, we (consumers) have to be educated buyers when car shopping.
Call your quoted dealership and ask some very important questions. Never Assume price from a dealer/ salesman will ripped you off if you do not educate yourself on pricing. Which will be your fault for being lazy.
2014 model
Find out what the selling price of vehicle is?
Does this price include dest charge?
What are that dealerships doc fee charge ?
Is that dealership offering any flex money on a 2014 model ? was it included in your price. Can you get flex on a 2014 model if you finance thru that dealership?
2013 model
Your target price to buy should be no less than $1500 to 2000 below dealers invoice price without taxes, dmv fee's.
If dealerships are offering flex cash on a 2013 model i would be negotiating for that 2k mark if not more.
23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE
Michaell, we haven't disagreed on too many things and I appreciate the fact you know I never used these forums to promote business.
It used to be very frustrating when a customer would come to me and tell me how he read on some forum how someone else bought a car for X number of dollars when I KNEW that never happened!
I never knew if that poster didn't remember exactly what he paid, if a trade in had been involved if it were just puffery or one-upmanship on the part of the
person who posted a false number.
I even lost a longtime customer once that I had sold five or six cars to. He bought a new Odyssey and somehow looked in some forum how someone had bought one for some price that never happened.
He told me I had taken advantage of our relationship and never bought another car from me.
I have no dog in this fight and if it isn't real, I don't post it.
Lastly, in the 17 plus years I've been around these forums I have seen a lot of "experts" come and go.
Carry on and enjoy your new Accords!