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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?
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I find the $11.99 Wal-Mart dino fill a good value, but insist that they replace the Fram with a Super Tech. Anything but Fram and I'm happy. Don't really think the Wal-Mart Champion Labs filter is better than a Penske (Wix) from K-Mart, but think both of them are very good values. I do think the Penske is the same exact filter as the base Castrol for less money. Filtering data is the same for both filters.
The original MiniMopar study (removed from most sites) was critical of Champion Labs for having flimsier media and some rust. Remember the older Champion Labs filters as having a slight bit of surface rust but that has been cleaned up for a couple of years now and the media looks just fine to me. Our filtering media expert has been careful not to recommend brands of filters but did state that the media in the SuperTech filter was first rate, so I'm happy.
I'm disturbed that so many OEM filters (i.e. Canadian Hondas) are in fact Fram. All it takes is seeing one of those filters cut apart (they are displayed in many AutoZones) and you can tell why anyone should be nervous.
I usually hang large signs over my dash before going into Wal-Mart stating "NO FRAM ALLOWED, use SuperTech."
wal mart sells on price.
if its not a national name brand, look out.
Champion may make good filters but they probably have different quality/defect levels for each of the various generic customers they build for,,,Walmart may only require 1/xx defective and someone else may require 1/xxx defect rate, customer would probably never know. They are probably VERY good for the cost (same thing for Kmart generic/Penski/Wix-Castrol..), but I would not use them for extended intervals.
http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/Filters/PremiumOilFilters/
They seem to be a middle of the grade filter somewhere between the $2 regular paper filters and the $10 and higher premiums. I saw them for sale for $5 at AutoZone the other day. They use a mix of paper and synthetic fiber. They advertise the case as being stronger.
A post on another board said the paper element is good for filtering around 20 microns, the paper and synthetic around 15 microns and the full synthetics down to 10 microns. I realize it is more complicated than that but as a rough estimate it seemed applicable.
Does anyone know which Bosch would cross to the MobileOne M1-301? For $8 less I might switch to them.
gjo, lower flow of the high efficiency filters is one of the reasons I am using a oversize filter on my Jeep. The larger size should help with both flow and time until plugged.
Their oil is standard off the shelf Quaker State. They don't set up special refineries to blend private label products with inferior specifications. They are still ILSAC2, not ILSAC3, but I suspect that is just a matter of working old stock out of the distribution system.
I'm always amazed at the people who will order the name brand oil change at Wal-Mart and then specify Quaker State, turns out that they're paying an additional $5 for the identical product.
I doubt that Walmart would purposely contract for crappy products....I'm sure they would contract for a minimum price though..they know who they are competing with..
2 people running through the woods being chased by a bear, Jeff says to Jack do you think we can outrun him? Jack says to Jeff,,I don't know I only have to outrun YOU!
Catch my drift?
I'm sure they both are good enough, if one gets a little better, you can bet the other one will too.
later folks
Rando
From my point, my only no no is to avoid Fram oil filters at any price. I agree that Champion Labs higher end products (Mobil, Bosch?) probably have better filtering media, but think that high filtration has a certain risk itself. Sticking with a 4K oil change should minimize filter troubles anyway.
Same with oil. Wal-Mart's house brand could be Valvoline at any time rather than Quaker State. Depends on the low bidder when they let the next contract. In my mind it's no big deal as long as I don't greatly extend the drain interval.
I do think the new SL/ILSAC 3 grades will be a big improvement since they will have a synthetic component.
tom
http://www.knfilters.com/
Are the construction of these filters being beefed up because they're premium, or because a heavy filtering media puts more strain on the filter itself?
You may have addressed this earlier, but I'm getting forgetful in my old age.
Thanks Tom.
I also found that welded, stamped-steel nut on the back to be a hinderance rather than a help. I think it was 25mm ... and I had a hard time getting the filter off with a 3/8" socket. An end cap wrench on a faceted canister gives you more grip.
--- Bror Jace
They go on hand tight. They come off the same way, just a bit harder.
And I use the K&N on my SVT Contour and Mazda MPV. (Same engine block, same filter!)
TB
As to K&N, the one time I did use it I saw no difference in my oil analysis results as compared to my standard use Amsoils, or Pure Ones I normally use. And, more expensive! I personally believe, although this has been debated on other boards, that their air filters do nothing to either improve HP. mileage or filtration. In fact, my oil analysis over years and several cars has shown that in this rare case the OEM air filters work better then any aftermarket. Not true of oil filters but for me it is in air filters. I have tried the K&N, and Amsoil foam filters and both do nothing and eventually fall apart from cleaning.
The Motorcraft filter that came with both the Contour and the MPV is only tested to 3gpm. It may flow more, but is only tested to that level.
Since we've noticed a correlation between long right hand sweeping turns, high rpms (but not over redline) and oil starvation related failurs in the 2.5L Duratecs over at Contour.org, I believe it is better to ensure the oil filter flows as much oil as possible than it is to have very clean oil that can't get through a very effective, but restrictive filter media.
While I don't know if the oil filter is the choke point, I'm ensuring my filter will flow more than the oil pump will pump.
FWIW,
TB
Its all marketing hype.
probably same for other filter makers too
I'm not relying on a comparison to an unnamed brand in filter efficiency for my decision, but the raw numbers about strength and flow.
I have no reason to doubt those claims. Independantly tested or not.
TB
I have the Mercury version of your Contour, 4 cyl though. From what I have read the filter is not the problem with the oil starvation problem, more of an oil pan design flaw where the pump cannot suck up any oil due to the angle of turn!
It seems at say 5500+ RPMs (7000 Redline on the SVT) that there is less than 8oz of oil remaining in the pan.
The oil is staying in the top of the engine.
Roush ran one on an engine stand with an oil pan with a "window" and there was virtually no oil in the pan at high RPMs.
So even the best baffles can't help when the oil can't get back in the pan.
I run about 1/2 quart extra, 6.25 quarts total, figuring that once the engine starts, since so much oil is held in the heads (DOHCx2heads) that I probably won't have any problems with frothing the oil.
FWIW,
TB
I was given a Nascar version of the Mobil 1 by a business contact of mine at Champion Labs, and, man, you ought to see that thing! It is MUCH bigger than even the old fashioned full size auto spin on filters before they started downsizing them. It is heavy too! This filter would have gone to Rusty Wallace's team, or could have at that time been used my Jeremy Mayfield's team. Mobil 1 was Mayfield's sponser at the time I was given the filter.
I don't think there is any need whatsoever for an auto filter to have that heavy shell and all that.
No, the paper should not put more stress on the filter and require the heavy construction. The by pass valve should relieve any excess pressure long before the filter should "blow up."
tom
Would Mr. Detailer or others comment further?
I just spent a fortune on a 2002 vw eurovan weekender which must last me forever, so I am interested in long-term maintenance
Thanks
58VW
Where filters are located in nearly unreachable places, the problem is not getting the filter off, rather it is in mounting the new filter!
Usually you cannot reach such a filter except with a "cap" type remover. If you use that remover to slightly tighten the filter beyond hand-tight (and few people have the hand strength to tighten a filter securely), then the darn remover is usually wedged tightly onto the filter and cannot be removed by hand (and there is no space to reach it with any tool that might be used to pry the remover off of the filter. I have often had to leave the remover attached to the engine until the next filter change!
Is there any better solution?
I'm going to try putting a piece of wax paper between remover and filter to see if that will help (putting a little oil on the outside of the filter didn't help!). Will report later. I still think the hex nut on top is the elegant solution, but not at K&N price.
Like I said, I really disliked the K&N 'nut' ... after thinking how handy it was. You get better, more secure contact with an end cap filter.
I apply my filters by hand ... and then tighten them BY HAND as hard as I can. Less than 50% of the time can I remove them by hand. Only once has one loosened up on me between changes.
When I use an end-cap wrench and it remains on the filter after I remove it, I toss it against something hard ... like a pile of firewood and it pops off. Oil spillage is minimal.
You could also pop it off easily enough in a vise by grabbing the wrench and tapping the filter with a mallet or block of wood.
My brother once got a Fram filter for his Chevy V8 hot rod. It was a truck filter, I think. The base was the same spec, of course, but it had to be at least a foot long! >:^O
--- Bror Jace
altenator: If you are going to stay with the K&N Why not just go with a K-D band filter removal tool. Its my second best removal tool and must be used for the K&N. It has a 3/8 female drive to tighten and remove any filter that ever lived. If you need more information I probably can find it on the web somewhere. The tool # is 2380. Maybe they changed the # as I have mine now for 25 years. Its removed an awful lot of filters. (never failed on one yet)
Al
tom
The "Engine Plant" filters, as the name of the category implies, go straight to the engine plants and are the filters that are on the new vehicle when you first buy it.
The second category of filters, OEM Replacement, are the ones at the service departments at dealerships.
The third category, after market, would be the Motorcrafts, for example, that can be bought at an auto parts store or a discount store.
tom
If you get a chance, you can read some of the older posts in here. Maybe some of the stuff will be interesting to you.
I am not an expert in filters, but I do know a lot about the filter media: I design a lot of it.
And... I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!
c ya
tom
to brorjace: I have never tried K&N oil filters, I only admire their "nut on top" feature (I would not spend so much on a filter seeing how little agreement there is about any significant advantage of one filter over another).
At the moment my present concern is just finding the location of the oil filter on my new 2002 Mazda Protege's 2.0L engine (it has to be on the underside, but is it hiding behind a shield or what?) Advice would be welcome!
If I feared that oil starvation was a problem in my car, I might appreciate the high-flow rate of the K&N. But since that does not appear to be the case, I'll use singificantly cheaper alternatives ... that will protect my car just as well, I'm sure.
As for the Mazda, have you checked between the motor and the firewall? A common place for tranverse-mounted imports. If you look VERY carefully, I'll be you can see a sliver of it from above. Although it would help if you knew what color the OEM filter is supposed to be.
--- Bror Jace
Tool #63600
http://toolsource.com:
Better link:
http://toolsource.com:888/ost/lisle/
Your "breakdown" of Motorcraft (Purolator) oil filters was a perfect example of Internet nonsense and myth. You work in a paper plant. So??? Care to provide us with some actual documentation to support your claim?
You can take it or leave it. Obviously, you are gonna leave it. Suit yourself.
I don't just "work in a paper mill." I deal directly with the filter makers' engineers to develop filter media.
Just ignore my posts, if you don't believe what I post. Others here have appreciated my insight on filter media and on what I do know about filters.
tom
see y'all
Rando
A lot of things that I know are not for public consumption. I would not betray the trust of our customers by posting confidential information on the internet. That would be very unprofessional and unethical.
Thanks for your support, ZR.
tom