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There is another problem with the drift. When they did the TSB and fixed the pttr on my V three months ago, the car almost did not drift. Now, after 2K miles it drifts more. I brought it to the dealer, and they re-did the alignment, but with no improvement. If it goes the same way, I guess it's just a matter of time when the drift will be out of the "normal" six-second range.
SYMPTOM: Vehicle dirfts or pulls to the right while driving at highway speeds.
The assumption I draw from that is that at steady state highway speeds (whatever thay may be, again I would guess 45-65 miles per hour) if you let go of the wheel the vehicle will pull or drift to the right.
It has nothing to do with torque steer, which occurs when you are on the gas and accelerating. The more you press the pedal the more the vehicle will be affected, and its usually just from a full stop that torque steer is really an issue. I have an Audi A4 with front wheel drive and know what torque steer feels like. The pull to the right that the 2 CRVs I drove was nothing remotely like torque steer.
Again, from the TSB:
Probable Cause: The angle of the upper spring seat is incorrect.
The description of the actions required states that they need to adjust the left and right spring seats, align the front wheels, and take a test drive.
I personally test drove 2 4WD EX models and both pulled dramatically to the right when you let go of the steering wheel on a flat road in both directions. They even did it in the parking lot. This is not normal, its not designed in for safety, it is a defect that Honda (at least corporate Honda) has recognized and at least attempted to fix via the TSB.
What is disgusting is for alleged salesmen like Isell and the "Honda rep" who continue to claim ignorance about the issue and put you off with excuses and flat out lies. I'm sure that every manufacturer out there would be promoting the safety benefits of Pulls to the Right when steering wheel released in their brochures if that were truely a designed safety feature. Give me a break.
Honda admits there is an issue, why can't the dealer and regional personnel at least admit it to and get the issue fixed is my question.
Any answers Isell?
5-6 seconds is a pretty long time... At 60 MPH, you are traveling 450-500 feet.... I'd be surprised if your car didn't drift in that amount of time.. I think your experiment on the two-lane road pretty much backs him up on that point...
regards,
kyfdx
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http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Honda/1114758000000_1115622000000_05-022/index.html As for my 2005 CRV PTTR experiences, two I test drove had it. THey did the fix on one and it worked. I wanted a red CRV when they located one for me, it did not PTTR manf in ENgland its an LX AWD. I bought my 2005 CR-V in June I had a non start problem last week after only 4,500 miles, I was stranded 3 hours from home. After about 1 hour and 20 or so tries it started and I drove it 3 hours home. I Took it to the dealer first thing. After only 4,500 miles I had to have the starter replaced last week, They said the computer read there were some bad spots in the starter. I've also read that someone had an alternator replaced because of non-starting. I hope my non-start problem is fixed but unfortunately I felt a slight hesitation on starting yesterday. Nervous about the compressor problems I am now reading. I also do hear the click upon first driving thats been mentioned, not sure where it is coming from it could be the steering column as mentioned. PTTR, non-Starting, Compressor, boy I really hope I didn't make a mistake in choosing a CR-V. So far it seems to be as un-reliable has my trade in, a 10year old minivan w/ 115,000 miles. I traded it in for less problems not more. On the plus side I get 29 1/2 MPG on the highway, loaded and using the A/C driving through the MOuntains, and going the speed limit as posted :confuse: .
I don't think I've eversaid this problem didn't exist. What I did say and what I still say is I've never experienced this myself.
I have driven and ridden in, probably a hundred or more CRV's and I have never seen this happen nor have I ever had a customer mention this to me.
And, yeah, unless I hadn't read about this in these forums, I would have been one of those salespeople who would have "claimed ignorance" about this issue.
Hardly an "excuse" or a "flat out lie!"
I had it suggested to me that there are a lot of stray signals flying around in multi story car parks which may be affecting the immobiliser (makes it think that it is being interfered with)
My wife and kids use the car regularly and park in multi story car parks on a regular basis so I would appreciate any help or advice.
Has anyone had a similar experience?
Isell: I wouldn't have heard about the problem without this forum, but I have heard about it. And I have read the TSB. I don't work for Honda or in the auto industry, and yet I managed to hear and learn about this issue. I find it hard to believe that professional Honda salespeople haven't heard of this issue. And to tell a customer that the problem is for torque steer or that Honda's are designed to pull to the right for safey purposes is in fact a lie. Pretty shameful if you ask me.
You may find it hard to believe but I actually agree with some of your comments concerning customers chasing the fantom deal they think someone else got or trying to bleed the dealer dry on every deal. I actually think the dealer deserves some money on the deal so that they can stay in business and we actually have somewhere to go actually test drive a car. I can't believe that you haven't driven a CR-V that pulled and that you are indignant at the suggestion that they might actually do so. I guess your dealership is just very lucky or your mechs get that TSB done on every one before you get to drive them.
I hope to buy a CR-V by the end of this month, but only if I can find ONE that has a manual tranny and doesn't pull to the right.
You find it "hard to believe" that professional honda salespeople haven't heard of this "issue"?
I have sold CRV's since they were introduced in 1997. NEVER ONCE, has this "issue" been brought up (to me) except in these forums!
That's all I'm saying. I'm saying, I don't doubt that some CRV's are affected. Givne my experience, that number must be limited to a very small percentage otherwise I would have heard about this other than in these forums.
I'm not "indignant" at any suggestions, and, no, I HAVEN'T driven any that pulled...sorry. I don't think luck has anything to do with this.
There are a few five speeds out there...not very popular so you might want to think of resale down the road...just a suggestion.
I do wish you well!
Seriously, I hope this whole issue is overblown but I am starting to doubt it!
PTTR has been a problem with a few CR-Vs since the 1st Gen model, even the redesign of the CR-V in 2002 for the 2nd Gen didn't eliminate the problem.
I wouldn't hold your breath on the 3rd Gen CR-Vs not having PTTR issues, either.
JM2C
I just got that.... lol....
Give me 2-3 years, and I'll catch on to just about everything....
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Thanks
Call American Honda Motor Co customer service 800-999-1009-address and phone # in front of you Warranty Info booklet. They will take your info and then someone else will call you back and tell you car is out of warranty- tell them you want them to pay for a/c repairs- about $2000. You will have to go to dealer for diagnosis/estimate. American Honda paid for my estimate. Depending on the mileage on the car it has been reported in this forum that they have have paid 100% to 33% One member with about 40,000 miles reported 100% reimbursement. Mine was a little under 70,000 and they paid 50%. You have to stay cool but be persistent. You will get some double talk-(they say no problem with air conditioner compressors and you cannot believe what you read on the internet)- but your negotiating skills apparently determine what you are finally paid. Stress your loyalty to Honda. All CRV owners are not treated equally. epm1
Sorry to hear that you are having so many problems with your new CR-V.
Yes I do find it hard to believe that professional salespeople can't spend some of their downtime (waiting for their next mark to pull up) to do some research and learn some more about the products they sell and the industry they work in. Pretty sad if you ask me. I had to show on salesperson where the spare tire was on the Ody when I test drove the 2004 model. I've had them tell me they have never heard of the engine fire issue with the CR-V. What kind of credibility does that lend them? Not much in my mind.
I've only driven 2 CR-Vs and they both pulled hard, so the number can't be as small as you would like to imply. I'd love to drive ONE that DIDN'T pull. I'm still waiting for my nearest dealer to email me when he has a manual that doesn't pull on the lot. Haven't heard from him but I am patiently waiting.
Actually, they are all 5 speeds now, but I know you meant the manual 5 speed. I realize that some folks won't buy a manual, but I prefer them, and I am buying the vehicle for me, not the next guy. What is disappointing is that the manual actually has a slightly lower fuel mileage rating than the auto, but again I am willing to give up that one MPG for the pleasure of shifting the gears myself.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Good luck finding one with a manual. There are only a handfull of them Someone on the "other" board reported a deale rin CO having 4-5 of 2004-2005 CR-V manuals. All new.
You will have to put up with a run around but be persistent. Good Luck, epm1
Anyone else have this problem happen to them twice with the same car??!
Good luck with Honda!!
Peace of mind is one of the main reasons I opted for the 100K / $0 deductable extended warranty...
We have 91 95 and 98 octane gas here what octanes do you have?
My Gear box is an Auto and can anyone tell me if it is harmfull to shift from D to N and back to D rather that leaving it in D constantly at traffic lights, is there any extra wear?
Do the 2002 Models have a diganostic plug socket? and if so what type and where is it located?
Perhaps Varmit and/or Isell can help? Thanks in advance Guys.
We have 91 95 and 98 octane gas here what octanes do you have?
My Gear box is an Auto and can anyone tell me if it is harmfull to shift from D to N and back to D rather that leaving it in D constantly at traffic lights, is there any extra wear?
Do the 2002 Models have a diganostic plug socket? and if so what type and where is it located?
Perhaps Varmit and/or Isell can help? Thanks in advance Guys.
Octane rating in the US may be different as it is an average or theoretical and actual octane ratings. R+S/2 Other countries may use Theoretical or Actual only.
Here in the North East we have 87, 91, 93, and Shell has 94. OWNER's MANUAL would tell you what grade to use.
Shfting auto is not a good thing if it were not designed for it. The OWNER's MANUAL would tell you if it were OK or not. IF you want to be in control of what gears to use and whether to be in neutral or not, a MANUAL transmission is probably a better choice.
The 2002 is OBDII compliant. There is a diagnostic socket. The OWNER's MANUAL is very explicit, at least in the US, about its location. Since you guys drive on the "wrong side" yours will be in a different location. Check the OWNER's MANUAL.
I think you see then trend. Almost all of your questions can be answered by the OWNER's MANUAL.
While I sympathize with you over your PTTR problem I find it highly unlikely that you are able to identify other vehicles with the same problem simply by observing them on the road.
I am awaiting delivery of a 2005 SE and will definitely give it a good test drive on multiple different roads at different speeds to see if the car I am buying has this problem before accepting delivery.
A question for those who have experienced this problem... Under what type of driving circumstances is it most noticeable? Acceleration? Braking? (I'm guessing note while turning right ) What speeds and on what type of roads?
Thanks.
I have a 2001 CRV SE with approx 62,000 miles. My AC Compressor just blew up also. My first estimate for the repair is coming in at $2785.00! I am so freaked out by that. I am getting some other estimates this week, and looks like based on some of the messages on this forum, I will contact Honda Customer Service next. I have already had my front left door actuator go out twice in four years and the front right door actuator replaced once also. I am a huge Honda fan and drove my 87 Acord for 13 years. But have not been having the best of luck with my '01 CRV.
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/
there must be a lot of labor hours to get to $2785.00!
I then went to the right lane. NOTE: It was visually evident that the road had slightly more crown to the right. I let go of the wheel and it took eight seconds to begin drifting to the right. I ran the test again and it took seven seconds. This is in keeping with MY expectations of normal wheel alignment.
What are your experiences?
Varmit did a very good job describing how the RT4WD works perhaps he could do piece on the auto gear box and how it works.
The manual do not give the location of the OBDII socket but thanks again.
tcas, the mlg rating in the manual is more of a guideline. I have found it really depends on driving style. I have had consistently better mileage than a few of my friends who drive the AT trans.
Also, I waited a few weeks for my MT to arrive at a local dealership. I was set on getting the Chianti Red, so it was well worth the wait.
I'd stop that...lol
regards,
kyfdx
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1) The car is less than 2 yrs old and only has 25,000 km. Is it normal for the air conditioner to break down at this stage?
2) I live in montreal, canada so the air conditioner has been used for about 3 months during the entire life of the car
3) Lombardi Honda charged me $150.00 to replace the freon in the air conditioner. When asked why it needed to be replaced, they were unable to give me an answer that makes sense.
4) I called Honda Canada and explained the problem. They told me that the freon is in a closed system and the freon should not have required replacement. When I told this to Lombardi, they said that it is not a closed system and Honda Canada was wrong. I then explained that for any gas not to escape, it had to be placed in a close system. Lombardi's response was that they did an A/C maintenance as specified in the maintenance schedule. As far as they are concerned, the air condition now works so there is nothing wrong.
5) I checked the maintenance schedule and I couldn't find anything specific about air conditioner maintenance
I think that the dealer needed to empty out the gas in order to perform their analysis and add coloring so that they can finger out where the leak is. They basically, charged me for the materials used to diagnose they problem. They're using a loop hole to get money from a car under warranty. Please, tell me if I'm talking non-sense. Any advice on how I should proceed?
Personally, I can't believe these Honda's are having so much AC trouble. Their should be a recall to fix the AC problems--all the lost freon (even if it new) is not good for the environment!
I wouldn't worry about shifting from D to N and back. The electronic controls--both torque converter and transmission--are more than adaquate to save the fuel and any wear on the system. I would say there is increased wear in maintaining this habit--your shift cable, especially the connecting ends are not likely designed to be constantly moved. As well as what was earlier mentioned, the shock load placed on the driveline is detrimental.
Also, my steering wheel is showing signs of wear--surface coming off at top...and the side air bag indicator light "flickered" while I was driving the other day.
I asked these questions earlier, didn't see any response--thus I apologize for the redundancy. Just hoping to all these problems taken care of before warranty expires.
Thanks
The manual do not give the location of the OBDII socket but thanks again.
Varmint drives stick. :-)
OBD port can be either under the lower dash cover on the driver's side, or on the interior console wall on the passenger side. Look for a rectangular connector, similar to GPIB standard connector.
1) The car is less than 2 yrs old and only has 25,000 km. Is it normal for the air conditioner to break down at this stage?
2) I live in montreal, canada so the air conditioner has been used for about 3 months during the entire life of the car
3) Lombardi Honda charged me $150.00 to replace the freon in the air conditioner. When asked why it needed to be replaced, they were unable to give me an answer that makes sense.
4) I called Honda Canada and explained the problem. They told me that the freon is in a closed system and the freon should not have required replacement. When I told this to Lombardi, they said that it is not a closed system and Honda Canada was wrong. I then explained that for any gas not to escape, it had to be placed in a close system. Lombardi's response was that they did an A/C maintenance as specified in the maintenance schedule. As far as they are concerned, the air condition now works so there is nothing wrong.
5) I checked the maintenance schedule and I couldn't find anything specific about air conditioner maintenance
I think that the dealer needed to empty out the gas in order to perform their analysis and add coloring so that they can finger out where the leak is. They basically, charged me for the materials used to diagnose they problem. They're using a loop hole to get money from a car under warranty. Please, tell me if I'm talking non-sense. Any advice on how I should proceed?
You shouldn't have paid for the service in the first place. However, read your warranty booklet, I know it is difficult to read French (joke) Honda USA covers refrigerant for only 1 year or 12,000 miles. The components them selves are covered up to 3 years.36,000 miles, but not refrigerant. This may be the same for Honda Canada. Refrigerant is covered if another a/c component needs replacement, which requires refrigerant evacuation and re-fill. Reading OWNER's MANUAL may have been benefitial to you. :-)
Freon does not leak out of sealed systems. It only leaks out when there is a breach in a seal. What your dealer should have done is perform leak test to determine where the refrigerant went to. Then, if there was a leak, they should have replaced the component and re-filled with R-134. Which would all be covered under warranty. You will find by the next summer that A/c is not working again.
As preventative maintenace, I would suggest you use it like recommended in the OWNER's MANUAL, once a week for 15 minutes, even in the winter. I highly doubt that Canadian OWNER's MANUAL is very different from US, even though it may be in French in Quebec (joke).
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Regarding "beginning to drift" I mean that the vehicle is just beginning to drift. For me, it is that place where I would want to put my hands back on the wheel and not look like a drunken fool on the road. This is before nearing the white line. Had I not taken the wheel again, I feel I would have touched the white line (either Right or Left) in other two seconds.
You have driven two CRV's and they both pulled "hard".
I have owned two and driven hundreds and none of them have done this.
I hope YOU believe ME because that's the truth,
And, you are right. a salesperson should know their product!
Didn't know where the spare was....***sigh***