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Comments
fowler3
I think what gets Pat more upset than being off-topic is calling her a him. :-)
Now that we got that down pat(shameless pun) can we get back to duratechs?
Choe,
I think you are confusing the 3.8 that was used in the taurus, t-bird and older Winstar with the 3.0 Duratech used in the Taurus. Be careful with your facts.
Having said that, the stalling problems have been linked to two causes - issues with the ignition switch and heavy key chains and issues with the ECMs. Given that neither of those components will be shared between the TribScape and the 6, I consider them a non-issue as far as the 6 is concerned.
BTW - My wife drives a 2001 Tribute and it has been fairly reliable thus far (26K miles). It's only warranty work was the replacement of the ventilation fan which developed a noisy bearing and a faulty power window switch. We've not been included in any of the recalls and have experience none of the problems you read about on the TribScape boards.
My car is a 98 Millennia S. I agree that the 2.3 MC engine is a nice engine (hooked to a mediocre transmission), but I won't miss the expense involved in its upkeep (high labor cost due to having to move plumbing to get to anything) and the searching for parts when I need to make a simple repair. Being exclusive can be cool, but sometimes it's a pain.
Bottom line - the 6s won.
On the Altima 3.5 V6; (if white knuckled torque steer is to your liking, this is the car for you.)
The 6s won on styling, refinement, interior, handling and overall balance.
Cool!
I could try to dig out these articels at some point if anyone is interested.
Perhaps the TVM on the 6 is so much lower than I would expect is because the Ford reach into Splan is getting a lot of buyers in on the car.
The 4 I have sold have been all or nothing (MSRP or Splan)
The 4 I have sold have been all or nothing (MSRP or Splan)
In San Diego the 6 is selling for over a grand under MSRP already. I can get a V6 for 2k under msrp without haggling!
Though I tend to believe in the real consumers since they have no financial gain by stating their price in a public forum, whereas the salespeople do have an incentive to inflate the price to make it appear that they are selling like hot cakes. Real supply & demand will tell the truth in the end.
mazda6...be careful, the mazda website lets you configure a mazda6 in ways that they won't build the car. mazda seems to change the way they build the car every month based upon their projections and sales...this current allocation if the buyer wants side airbags...you can get them as a stand alone option with no other options or you need to take the sport package and Bose package at the minimum....so the dealer was being truthful. dont be so quick to assume the dealer is pulling something.
I will be glad to fax anyone the this months actual build confgs of the mazda6...just email me your fax numbers and which model and tranny you are interested in.
A San Diego dealership is giving $1500 off MSRP on the V6 model right off the bat. Add in the $500 graduate discount (I escaped from business school 7 months ago, so I easily qualify) and the car is 2k off msrp.
As for prices, "caveat emptor" is the rule to live by. Market values float in a range, and if you get the car you want in that range, I think its better to be happy with it than nitpick every last cent you may have overpaid
1. How do you know that anyone here is a real consumer?
2. I believe many people will understate their final price in public. No one wants to be over sold and have the chance some one else will say you paid too much!
3. I overheard a repeat customer blatantly lie and say he bought his last car from us at invoice.( so of course I looked him up in the computer and low and behold it was not true)
4. Some buyers lie.
5. Some sales people lie.
6. BLUEGUYS statement that you can get $2000 off without even haggling is a perfect example of :"what the other guy paid" syndrome. By neglecting to mention that he/she got $500 in college grad it sounded like the dealer was giving up $2000 when in fact they still had a small profit.
7. How do I get financial gain on this forum when nobody knows who I am?
8. Just because someone pays MSRP doesn't mean I wouldn't have considered an offer. Maybe they didn't ask for a discount and were just happy with their traded and the service and the car.
I think the only place a person can find the truth in a sales type experience is to find someone they connect with that has been recommended and they can trust. Buying a car is hard enough for some. Building a relationship with a good rep can bring years of easy buying:)
glad to help.
I'm sure since you drive a millenia s, and if say you driven the mazda 6, ill bet you can still tell that the millenia s is alot smoother, gives you a cleaner pull even though the millenia s is alot heavier than the mazda 6 with duratec. I do understand that the 2.3L supercharged is alot of pain to fix up(all engines need tuning etc) but dbamac wouldn't you say instead of putting so much effort to twist, and enhance the duratec, do the same for the 2.3L supercharged engine?? I'm sure they could have made it alot more revolutionary(more stable, economic, less problems). I have heard the mini cooper s(which uses a supercharge) is no less expensive to fix than a normal v6 engine, and i'm sure mazda engineers are just as capable as the bmw ones to create or recreate such a type of engine. Its just weird why they would have used the duractec instead(hurts sales).
btw..have you looked at the service history of the duratec? It is as good as most anything out there. The Tribute issues are not caused by an engine related problem. If it was the Taurus/Sable and MPV would have the same stalling issues. The duratec engine is nothing to worry about.
I don't have a FAX, but can you tell me what are the current combos, if my "must haves" are a 6i with manual trans, cloth, and ABS/SAB package? The last info I have is that to get that, I also had to get the Premium package. Thanks.
Honda calls themselves a car company, and I know for sure that they have had at least two of those issues. Tranny issues and stalling issues. I experienced one of them myself first hand. I had an Integra that was affected by a Honda/Acura extended warranty----on the ignitor. My car died while on a freeway on-ramp. Talk about scary. I was still on the ramp, accelerating onto the freeway, when the engine fell flat on it's face. I had it towed to the Acura dealer and had the ignitor replaced under Acura's extended warranty (which means they knew there was a problem with some ignitors).
Other than that, the car was absolutely excellent. I couldn't have asked for a more reliable car. I sold it to my freind and he quickly racked up the miles doing super long road trips. It now has 160,000 miles on it, original clutch, two timing belts, two water pumps, lots of synthetic oil changes, and that's pretty much it.
like i have stated already, i realize this. And also that its expensive to maintain. But why could they have not tried their efforts to fix and improve this, rather than enhancing the duratec(which is from ford)?? even if its more expensive to twist and enhance the 2.3 supercharge, wouldn't you pay 500-700 dolalrs more for an improved supercharged engine that is better than the duratec and on par with the hondas, altimas?
I do beleive the duratec is holding the 6s down on sales. Not tremedounsly, because it is satisfactory for a v6 engine(i guess), but with someone else better than average, this could have been the one mid size sedan of its class where the v6 actaully sales more than the I4, because it suits its sporty demeanor better. In addition when 6s was tested by the likes of the magazines such as CandD and RandT, this engine caused mazda the title. Other than cost saving, this engine doesn't bring anything worthy to the table .
Sorry to hear about that tragic incident, but i'm sure your car wasn't at 10k when the engine dropped. Now on the other hand past and current(focus) ford engines rather break and stall whenever they please, rather than understandable breaking from alot of clicks(like 100k)
Instead of improving the I4 they have spent their money and talent on the V6.
And just the fact that it shares its block with the reliable Ford engine will surely make it unreliable.
OK. We got it.
Can we please move on.
I agree, can we please move on?
And just the fact that it shares its block with the reliable Ford engine will surely make it unreliable."
ok first what are you talking about?? i never said anything you have stated above. The I4 is an excellent engine. We are not talking about that engine. What i'm talking about is rather than to fix up the duratec they should have made their homework on the 2.3L supercharged engine. Also where do u go off saying reliable ford engine?? have you not been reading our forum thus far, especially about previous stalling issues regrading it.
The point is, the engine stalled(made by ford) in the middle of the highway, the car going at illegal speeds, and someone could have died.
Why is there forgiveness than for such engines made by ford let alone motor a car.?? its totally unlogical to me
The Duratech has proven to be a durable, reliable engine for the most part. As a former Contique owner, I got used to hearing about the engine and defending it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Ford is just boneheads to make a mistake like that before. I'm sure the duratech is fine, but it honestly doesn't give me peace of mind still like anything else made by ford.
so i will live with the 6i(waiting for the hatch) and if i have a need for speed, mate it with a turbocharger, or supercharger kit designed for the mazda 6.
Choe113, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't lots of things you should have done and/or should be doing, but haven't for financial reasons. Companies are the same way.
Ford isn't the only bonehead on this planet,if in fact it is.
fowler3
Is Mazda taking custom orders yet? Is it possible for me to get exactly what I want with PIO's instead of dealer installed accessories? That is, I want a fully loaded S with AT, and I'd like to get doodads like the homelink mirror and MP3 player. I'd really prefer to have these items installed at "port" rather than at the dealer. Is this possible yet?
Also, what's the best way to negotiate a price on a custom-ordered car? I would think that waiting two months on a build-to-order car makes you appear less flighty to a dealer than a walk-in purchaser. In this case, is it best to negotiate the price before placing the order? is that even possible?
thanks,
-Alt
I'm also waiting to see when (if) a NAV option will be added.
It seems that Mazda is also planning a 3.5l v6 (242 horses, 204 lb. ft. - anyone know if this is another Duratec?) as shown at NAIAS this past weekend. They used it in their Washu prototype (if you ask me, the styling is a huge miss). By the looks of things, Mazda may be adding a large sedan to their lineup. Dare I say Mazda9?
Another Washu link.
The Ford/Mazda partnership will mostly yield inline 4 engines, in fact Mazda will be designing all of Ford's i4 engines from now on, the next to be put in the next Protege and Focus.
Concerning the Duratec engine, while Ford really can't excuse itself for it's relatively poor manufacturing process at some assembly sites, I honestly can't see any merit towards reservations on the Duratec Engine. It's rock solid, I love it in my Tribute and will enjoy the Mazda variant in the 6s! Keep in mind that it's just the Duratec BLOCK in the 6, everything else is Mazda engineered, so, overall, the engine truly is Mazda's. Besides, who else can say they have a sedan who's v6 was designed by Porshe!?
By using the Duratech as the foundation for the '6, it gives Mazda a larger displacement engine at low cost due to the high volume of common blocks being manufactured at the Ford plant. The only thing wrong with the Duratech in its current configurations are the choked off heads that the bean-counters saddled it with. Mazda has addressed that and made a nice engine from it.
http://www.mazdausa.com/mazda6/images/gallery/mz6_gallery_20.jpg
My first car, a '79 Capri, was a hatchback, and I remember how much more convenient it was loading and unloading stuff than with a traditional trunk. And my rear seats folded over in that --- I would ASSUME they will fold over in the M6 Hatchback also, like they do in the sedan.
It would have been cool to have all 3 at one time.
Choe13, I too prefer the I4, not because I'm afraid of the Duratec, but because the extra weight of the 6s over the 6i has a negative effect on the skidpad and braking. I also might be interested in some kind of power-improver(s) at some future date.
If you look at the GM 3800 in the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, now that's a normal V6 with a blower bolted on to give it V8-like performance.