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Yes, actually I drove your car, a wagon with Sportshift. It was the 2nd of the 3 cars I took on the infield course (see review in Meet the Members). The instructor held me back, but not the car.
I was impressed. You'll recall I thought the auto took the edge off the Forester XT? Not so here. The tranny prevents lag by choosing the right gear. It also doesn't hesitate to shift like the F-XT did. In essence, I felt my lap times would be no worse with the Sportshift, and we didn't even get to use the buttons on the steering wheel.
I'm sure the 5MT is half a second quicker, but we're talking 5.5 to 6.0 seconds, i.e. mega-super-ultra fast vs. merely super-ultra fast. I'll still be envious.
They mentioned Nav, and not the others, so I don't think so. It was broad day light in the desert so we could not try any of the lights, inside or out.
-juice
Bob
What I can't comment on is the ride on the Legacy GT. The Legacy 2.5i soaked up some man-made bumps they put out for us to drive over, but the GT has lower profile tires on bigger rims, and the track was smooth as a baby's bottom.
I'll upload some pics now...
-juice
Ken - I too am deciding between the 5EAT and 5MT. Sounds like it will be a close call indeed. Guess I'll have to drive both!
On the topic of stability control...all I know is what I've read like many of you. I'm surprised it's not an option on more Subaru's as well. I'm sure it will "trickle down" to all models soon, but in the mean time if the car you really want doesn't have it take the $2000 you would have spent on it and take some sort of performance driving course. It will serve you better in the long run.
Cheers!
-Ian
Grrr...I'm happy to read this but frustrated at the same time. I get the feeling this tranny will never make its way into the current generation of Forester XT.
The new Legacies/OBs are handsome cars and are poised to take the marque to a new level. Still I would feel uneasy doing things to one of these that I'd do to a Forester with no hesitation. Things like throwing one down a dirt or gravel road, crossing a plowed field to get to a remote fish pond, or carrying a load of mulch, stone, or greasy old car parts in the back.
Maybe these new cars are too nice for me?
Ed
PS: Oh, yeah - nice reports, guys. ;-)
-B
- I was under the impression that the OBs have greater ground clearance and less overhang vs. the previous editions, which should make them much more capable running off-road and doing some (if not all) the things you do with your Forester. Previously, I know the Forester had much less of an overhang than the OBs, with a shorter wheel-base, which made them much more capable off-road vehicles.
PS. I am a long time Honda Accord owner since 1985. I look forward to the change.
Would it be fair to say that driving on long journeys on highways, the Outback H6 is more comfortable in terms of wind/road noise and seating?
After your review, I have now made up my mind!
I WANT BOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the great reviews.
CUSAFR
Patti
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the GT has slightly faster steering than the other Legacys and Outbacks. It has 2.8 turns lock-to-lock; whereas other models, including the Outback XT, have 3.4 turns lock-to-lock. The turning circle is the same for all models, at around 34.5.' The GT also has larger brakes.
Bob
Bob
Craig
Im sure youre aware that Accord DXs, LXs, and LX V6 come standard with wheel covers, right? And the rubber on the EX 4 Accord is 15 inches compared to the 2.5i's 16? You also wont find the jazzy chrome finish dual exhaust on the Accord, or on rental cars, but I digress.
Im just curious as to why you feel the 16-inch wheels make the 2.5i look like a "dog" compared the GT. The only differences are the hood scoop, and the larger wheels/tires. (Personally, I think the 5 spoke alloy design of the GT is more generic than the split-spoke design on the 2.5i.
~alpha
Re: my prior post, I should have specified stability control, not traction control. The state of the art systems integrate engine controls, individual wheel braking and lots of sensors to react far quicker than any human could. A trained driver will be better able to keep a car out of trouble than an ordinary driver, but no driver is perfect and black ice, for example, recognizes no professional driving certifications .
Fence-wise, my wife has really gotten into this adventure and now realizes that the Subarus generally get better gas milage than most comparable AWD vehicle. I was shocked by her report on the milage numbers for the Sorrento, the Santa Fe, the Freelander, etc.
Mark
The WRX is a classic example -- the fenders were sized and proportioned to look great with 17" wheels, which is the standard size in Europe and Japan. The WRX has always looked ingrown with the smaller 16" wheels offered in the US.
I am guessing it may be the same story with the Legacy. It looks spectacular with the 17" wheels, no doubt. But I really find the 16" looking a little "off" (part of it may also be the less agressive split spokes). I came across more pics from SubieGal, and it just confirms my impression.
BTW, you can compare Legacy 2.5i and WRX pictures on the Subaru website (they both have images of the wheels in their photo galleries). The wheels are the exact same but painted slightly different colors -- silver on the Legacy, light bronze on the WRX.
Craig
~alpha
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
- Is this because of the cost factor to keep the WRX below the $25K threshold, when it was introduced, and to give it a better ride quality (compared with the European cars) for American roads?
The Legacy is the only Subaru option for the current WRX driver to move up to. A 13hp increase and 33 torque bump for 200 extra pounds does not cut it.
I could not live with myself if I moved up to a 250hp Legacy when there are 280hp Infiniti's, 300hp Mustangs,and 340hp Hemi Magnums available at similar prices.
Subaru, I am not the only WRX driver who feels this way. I don't want our relationship to end after my WRX. I think you know what needs to be done. 2006 Subaru Legacy STi.
The Outback brochure indicates that the Outback sedan will come only with the H-6, and it's will only come in monochromatic paint. So no more 2-tone Outback sedans. I think that makes sense, as I think this will have a better chance of luring those who are wishing for a Legacy H-6 sedan.
Also, some models will now allow you a choice of two interior colors per exterior color.
Bob
kevin111: The WRX definitely rides better on the stock 16" wheel/tire combo than on 17", and costs held equal, a 16" wheel will generally be lighter than a 17" wheel. Rotational mass affects the WRX quite bit in acceleration department. So, 16" is the better choice for all around comfort, cost, and faster acceleration times. Whether or not these factors were driving the decision, I don't know.
Craig
I'd reserve judgment on the Legacy's power and performance vis-a-vis the cars you mention until having driven all of them.
Ed
Craig
I want a high performance, AWD, sedan that is refined.
I have faith in Subaru, I think they can do
that with 300hp.
I know it will be a blast to drive.
Is it wrong to want a 300hp Legacy?
This impression is backed up by my research at the Subaru Website, comparing a Forester XT PP to a 2005 Legacy or Outback with sunroof (apples to apples), headroom, legroom, and shoulder room (front and back) are all within a fraction of an inch of each other. Same if you look without a sunroof on both models
Outback with sunroof offers 32.1 cubic feet cargo with seat up, 61.7 with seat down. Forester with sunroof offers 29.6 up, 62.7 down. Again, without a sunroof the relationship is similar. However, because of its more utilitarian cube like shape, I think the usable cargo advantage actually goes to the Forester, especially with the seats up, as the back window of the Legacy Outback curves into your space. I was really hoping for at least 70 cubic feet of cargo room. The Forester is great for most tasks, but I would like to have another slightly larger vehicle.
Bottom line is that with no size advantage, you are paying extra for better styling, a longer car (which is not necessarily an advantage), better handling and more refinement. You are not getting any more size, which I think is a mistake in the American market. My conclusions:
1. I do not regret buying my wife the Forester XT last Fall and not waiting for the new Outback / Legacy.
2. If we were buying her a new car today, I think I would still go with the Forester as compared to an Outback.
3. For my next vehicle, I am either waiting for the 7 passenger or going to something else, so the chances of me having a two Subie fleet have reduced slightly. I can't wait to see a real rendering or prototype of the 7 seater, which will help to make my decision.
Now having said that, I do agree Subaru needs a larger-still sedan. I think you will see that, once the new 7-passenger crossover debuts.
Bob
Bob
If you sit in the new Legacy or Outback, I don't see how you can come away thinking the Forester is larger.
Bob
After living with a WRX for 2 years, I have become used to the "WRX's frenetic on/off powerplant" that C_hunter talks about, so this is not an issue.
If we are getting the 350 hp twin-turbo STi (thought I heard of a boxter-6 dual-turbo out there) then this would be a serious upgrade.
I understand the STi version would be much more expensive than the current GT version, but if the model is out in a couple of years or later, it might be of interest as we keep climing the corporate ladder.
On another note, if I was buying a car today, the Legacy GT would be near or at the top of my list, ahead of the WRX.
As stated earlier, between the Forester and the Outback, headroom, legroom and shoulder room front and back are a virtual tie. Cargo room is about the same, varying slightly according to sunroof.
But, the website lists the interior passenger volume at 97.4 cubic feet for the Outback, with or without the sunroof (which sounds a little suspicious). For the Forester it is 91.2 with the sunroof and 93.5 without the sunroof. This may explain why the Outback may feel more spacious, especially considering that some of the Forester's space is due to its high roof.
That said, I still wish the Outback offered a little more cargo room with the seats flat.
As to room, the Forester probably has more vertical space, but the legacy has more Horizontal. To me, the extra headroom isn't really usable, but elbow and stretch-out room is. I also am more interested in cargo space up to seat height, because I normally don't stack above that, so floor space is of prime concern, more so than height.
For wheels, I wasn't thinking of aftermarket, and didn't think that a dealer upgrade would be that much, but I've never priced it, so how would I know.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
So, having gone through this with one car, I am not eager to do it again. At least in the case of the WRX, I could justify it from a performance standpoint. With the Legacy, it would be based on looks only. But, I really need to see the car in person before worrying about wheels....
Craig
For example, the width of the gate opening at the floor and between the wheel wells is almost 3" greater in the Legacy; on top the wheel wells, 2.5" greater in the Forester,across the inside of the roof, greater in the Legacy. Of significance, the rear gates mirror the general shape of their cargo areas. The Forester has that hexagonal gate and it is widest at the height of the wheel wells... so, if you need to haul something 48 inches across, like a piece of plywood, then you can do that in a Forester if you can slide it in on top the wheel wells.
The cargo area height is 2.5 " greater floor- to-roof in a Forester, assuming moonroof yes or no in both.
The cargo area floor length to the back of the rear seats is 6" longer in the Legacy, 7" longer with the rear seats folded forward. However, the more slanted rear hatch angle and the greater rear seat recline angle in the Legacy causes that floor lenth advantage to disappear as you move toward the roof. From the side, the Legacy cargo area has a nearly triangular profile, while the Forester is much closer to a rectangle. Thus, the Forester will hold a much longer rigid box that is as tall as the rear gate opening.
In other words, you can haul more golf bags and duffel bags in a new Legacy wagon behined the rear seat; you can haul more boxes of new computer equipment or similar large, rigid cartons in the Forester.
Dog Owners: The cargo area in the Legacy is easily large enough for at least one large dog to stand and move about easily; that particular requirement disqualified the WRX wagon for my purposes. Two large dogs would be quite comfortable standing in the cargo area of a Forester; they would have to like each other if they both wanted to lie down back there. Check out Juice's new pics from Las Vegas to see the new Legacy/Outback dog barrier. This is the first barrier I have seen that specifically shields the shoulder belts from the dog. I know lots of people, myself included, whose bored dogs chewed up the shoulder belts when left in the car and those can be very expensive to replace, way more expensive than the dog barrier. The new barrier is designed so the bottom is parallel with the top edge of the rear seats when those are up, but stays in place when you fold down either or both of the split rear seats, so long items simply slide right under the guard. Somebody did their homework with this design.
mark
Bob
To Bob and Juice - Did you get a chance to drive a 2.5i with a 5 speed MT? If so, does it work as well as the MT on the Turbo? Now that I am not forced to get the AT to get the goodies, I am thinking of a 2.5i limited with a MT. I figure it should be fairly peppy, it would be a lot cheaper than an XT or a 3.0, I could get good fuel consumption on cheaper fuel, and when I need a rush of turbo power I still would have the Forester.
George
How many 300+ hp sport sedans with the Legacy GT's qualities are they're for under 40K? To step up you'd have to get an S4 or an M3 for 50K. That's twice the price. Like someone mentioned, you can chip it later or you can just go buy something else...
Does the brochure indicate the ground clearance for the Legacy GT wagon?
Bob: Thanks for replying to my previous post
Juice: Still interested in your feedback to my post (#20442 in Meet The Members 2 Forum).
Once again, thanks for the great write-ups!!
Leo
None, that's my point.
I can think of a few in the 250hp range.
This raises an interesting point about the brochures. The Outback brochure mentions towing, whereas the Legacy brochure doesn't. In the past all these specs were offered in both brochures; not anymore. In addition, the Outback brochure now mentions angle of approach, breakover angle, and angle of departure. These are all important info for those who venture off road.
Bob
Bob