VW Jetta TDI

jkinzel · July 2008

My understanding is that the new VW's are 50 state approved, so yes, you should be able to buy one.

gagrice · July 2008

The demo VW Jetta TDIs are already in CA so they should have them in all the CARB wannabe states. I think delivery on orders are coming in August. So get down and test drive one and get your order in Early....

Once people find out they get closer to 50 MPG than 40 it will be hard to find one on a dealers lot.

gagrice · July 2008

Has anyone got an idea how much the VW Jetta TDI tax credit will be? The holdup on diesel was the 50 State emissions. With that out of the way it should be pretty good. According to the EPA it will be a 30% improvement. It should be more than the Toyota Camry Hybrid as the improvement is better. The TCH was $2600 so I would expect that much or more.

jrct9454 · July 2008

Don't count on any tax credit for the TDI....

gagrice · July 2008

The only holdup was passing the 50 state emissions Tier II bin 5. The real problem is it is based on city mileage compared to 2002 base model. So the law was biased toward hybrids for sure. The question would be. Are more miles accumulated in the USA on city streets or highways? I would say highways.

elias · July 2008

my experience owning both 06 NB DSG TDI and 06 jetta 5-spd TDI at the same time, 40k miles per year on each car:

the 5-spd gets 10% better mpg, with similar mix of city vs highway.

there isn't an automatic transmission yet which can sense the road/traffic/traffic-signals ahead.
that's a reason why a manual-shifter can enable such dramatically better mpg.

ruking1 · July 2008

I haven't lived with a TDI DSG (or automatic for that matter) , but I think if one came from an automatic, the DSG can be seen as a DRAMATIC improvement. If one comes from a manual, I would guess you could look at it inbetween or both ways: not as good as a manual, but not as bad as an automatic.

jrct9454 · July 2008

Absolutely no way a manual trans is going to beat the DSG by 10%. The DSG is a completely different animal from a conventional torque converter automatic - it's a dual clutch manual transmission that uses electronics to shift itself, or allow you to shift it as you see fit. Fuel consumption vs a manual is too small to measure.

dieselfitter1 · July 2008

That depends on the RPM@100KPH in sixth gearfor the DSG as compared to RPM in 5th gear for the manual transmission. DSG might get better mileage.

ruking1 · July 2008

For sure you have got the facts correct, but a prior poster who lives with both, sees a difference. (10%) Whether that is true for the (whatever standard deviation or % difference) population of DSG drivers might take some more research to flesh out. But a side by side comparo usually is more believeable than a non side by side comparo. So for example I would be curious what I could get from a DSG given a known everyday commute.

Another apples to oranges comparo that I have done for easily 67,000 miles is the fuel mileage for a gasser Civic (38-42 mpg ) vs TDI (48-52 mpg.) Two things that are common, the actual commute, drivers.

jrct9454 · July 2008

The 2009 Jetta TDI DSG and Manual trans are 1 mpg apart. That ain't 10%.

And, I might add, a Jetta and a New Beetle are not identical cars, even with the same engine.

If you want a manual transmission, you won't get any argument from me - but I really doubt you're going to see that kind of difference in fuel consumption of the '09 Jetta between the two drivetrain choices. In any case, VW plans the initial production run to be something like 90% DSG.

british_rover · July 2008

this web page for the tax credit amounts.

Right now they don't have any 2009 vehicles listed.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=157557,00.html

chezbut · July 2008

Mico,
Which dealer are you with and what is your contact?
I'm interested, and live in the bay area as well.

mrstacy · July 2008

I test drove the demo model at Desert VW in Las Vegas. What a great car. The fit and finish exceed the Land Rover LR3 and BMW 650 that we currently own.

All of the controls are smartly placed and have a solid feel to them. The steering wheel feels substancial. Nothing comes off as flimsy (at least during the 15 minute test drive).

When I first started it, I couldn't tell if it was really on. It was that quiet.

We had 4 215 plus size men in the car and everyone had plenty of space. The seats had a leather look. If that is the fake leather, I wouldn't mind having that. It looked great.

I did take me a little effort to put it into gear. Not sure if I just wasn't used to it or the shifter was sticky. This happened more than once. I kept looking down to see what gear it was in (I did have the option of looking at the gear selector on the dashboard, but in that short time I didn't get used to that).

Boy is it quiet. Once I got some space, the salesman asked me to open it up a little. It is peppy too. Quite adequate for getting on the freeway without getting into trouble. It was actually more than adequate, it was impressive.

I liked the height adjustable center console too. Not sure how he adjusted it, but he did adjust it for me. The salesman said the demo was the mid-grade level which in my mind I questioned because this one looked and felt pretty upgraded.

The transmission had a sport mode and manual shifting option was nice, but I have that in my current vehicles and never use. I inadvertently told the salesman how much I liked the car (there goes my chance for getting it at MSRP).

This is going to sell well as long as diesel doesn't cost a lot more than regular gas. I couldn't imagine too many people not liking the Jetta after driving it.

One of my concerns is forgetting it is a diesel and putting regular in it. Other than that I'm sold on the TDI Jetta.

I need the sportswagen as I'm replacing an SUV. The salesman didn't have any dates but said some should be in August or even late July. I wouldn't count on one until September though.

I'll be putting my deposit down today. I may change my mind if they insist on getting over MSRP. He said only 70 would be sold in Las Vegas and 1200 nationwide. Is this true?

vwinva · July 2008

How difficult is it to replace the fan assembly in a 1.9L TDI? While recharging the A/C system I noticed the radiator fan is cracked. Dealer wants over $200 just for the fan. I see complete assemblies available on E-bay Motors for a lot less.

bpeebles · July 2008

The answer partly depends on what vehicle you are dealing with.
The NB (New Beetle) has very little room to work in that area while the Jetta/Golf may be less cramped.

vwinva · July 2008

'01 Jetta wagon. Will check with auto shop to see if they can do it.

The Jetta has 195K on it so guess it's time for a failure.

sebring95 · July 2008

Shouldn't be too bad to swap out. I had to replace the radiator on mine thanks to an "incident". That's a pretty big job, but IIRC, the fan assembly on the back should come off pretty easy and once you pop off some of the top trim pieces it should come out pretty easy.

drvsalot · July 2008

i drove my first vw product today, 09 jetta tdi. verrrrryyyy impressed with lack of diesel noise but somewhat confused on computer milage calculations. i drove 28 total miles, 25 at 60 mph and 3 stop and go traffic. Dealer reset computer when we left the dealership. At the 15 mile point mpg was at 24.4 At the end of the drive mileage was at 34.5 mpg but still rising. How much longer do i need to drive before getting a true reading, and is this sssssslllllllllllooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww calculation a common thing for all vw's? my other cars (f-150, bravada, chevy) calculate almost immediately after reseting.
Biggest turnoff--- dealer added $2000.00 "vehicle shortage allotment". Hope Honda comes out with diesel accord in couple of months.
i drive 30,000 miles per year and would love to start driving a diesel car

jkinzel · July 2008

I have been looking at the TDI and the local Tacoma, WA dealer is playing the same game. Its going to be a hot seller and we can only get so many, etc, etc.

Im not going to play. Its a great car, but I will not be a party to extortion.

elias · July 2008

the mpg meter has two modes, instant and average. these cars are great, I've put 40k or 50k per year on various TDIs since 2003. My advice is DO NOT PAY more than retail price. Call around to other VW dealers and you will find one selling TDIs for retail.

cosmo · July 2008

I suggest contacting and negotiating with dealers via Internet and email only. In this manner you are usually dealing with only the sales manager or Internet sales manager, thus bypassing the lot lizards. VW of America and Canada web site has a tool that helps you locate vehicles you want, so you do not have to go fishing all over your region. I bought the exact 2006 Jetta TDI that I wanted at sticker price with no hassle and little time spent from an out-of-town dealer after the local sales bunglers insisted that VW did not make a car equipped the way I wanted. The out-of-town dealer even offered to deliver the car at no extra cost. I like our VW/Audi dealer's service and parts departments, but I have bought our last two cars over the Internet since hassling with the local dealer's sales shysters for all of an afternoon in 2004. (And finally getting the Passat TDI for $100 under sticker.)

jkinzel · July 2008

The internet purchase might be the way to go. I want the SportWagon so I guess I have a few months to wait.

It was suggested that I try Portland OR, but I cant do too much until they arrive on the lots.

Thanks

jim314 · July 2008

I'm assuming that the mpg output you were looking at was the "average mpg". There is not reason to think the computer calculation is slow. Rather what is happening is that the mpg is rather low during cold startup and then increases to a stabilized much higher value as the engine fully warms up, which may take 15 miles.

The average mpg is continually updated on a time scale of a few seconds to ten or so seconds. So the average mpg would steadily increase during the trip you describe. If you wanted to output the ave mpg of a full warmed up engine at say 40 mph, then you'd reset the computer after full warmup and then read the average over about 30 sec to 1 minute while driving a steady 40 mph.

Or you could just switch to instantaneous mpg readout.

drvsalot · July 2008

thanks for the info. i will re-drive and use the instantaneous mode. that may also explain the last 5 miles i drove, 75mph and the mpg kept increasing the jetta i drove had 255 miles on it and the average mpg on the readout was 24.6 before we reset it. my guess is that it has sit and ran, while people were looking and reviewing it.

drvsalot · July 2008

what kind of mileage are you getting? i drive approx 70% interstate, 75-80mph. Have the cars been reliable? has vw been good to work with? i live approximately 120 miles from my closest dealer and i have some fears about having service work performed, reliability, etc...

sebring95 · July 2008

I'm not sure how I'm going to feel about these newer diesels. I had an '00 Jetta TDI and put over 160k miles on it before it was totalled in an accident. 47mpg lifetime average with performance mods and heavy foot. 90% highway miles, 75-80mph.

I was very comfortable working on that car myself and pretty much knew what to watch out for and never really needed a dealer. No major repairs in that time period, just routine maintenance that is VERY important. I don't have a very high opinion of VW dealers.....I put them right down there with Toyota. I know there are some good ones, I've just not met one yet!! I would deal with it through the warranty period and then find a good independent shop that specializes in vw's/diesels.

IMHO, if you're the type that just wants a car that's reliable and requires very little interaction, then I'd recommend something else. For me, the TDI was no more difficult or expensive to maintain than anything else. However, it takes a small amount of understanding some things are DIFFERENT and need to be maintained the correct way. This seems to be a problem with VW dealers as it's common to hear of them using the incorrect fluids, throwing random parts instead of properly diagnosing the problem, and just general incompetence when it comes to the TDI's. While IMHO the Civics and such are not nearly as nice in many ways, they're a simple appliance with plenty of service/support and can be driven with little thought. Just depends on what kind of experience you're looking for. I sold my '07 Civic within three months as just wasn't pleased or comfortable. So I'm commuting in a V8 truck until I get a good grasp on these new TDI's and decide where I'm going. I'm leaning toward looking for an impeccably maintained '06 Jetta TDI. Maybe the crazy money they're pulling in will slow down once these new ones fill-up the lots.

Either way, I won't be an early adopter. I just don't see these flying off the lots the way the dealers apparently think they will. I imagine there will be strong demand at first while the pay-any-price diesel-heads buy them up. But I'm putting my money on discounts after the first of the years assuming they don't artificially control inventory. I had the chance to buy an '05 Passat Wagon TDI for under invoice not too long after the MSRP bandwagon ran out.

jrct9454 · July 2008

The entire run for '08 is already almost completely accounted for. Most dealers have already taken more orders than they will have allocated cars for this calendar year.

I too would not buy under these circumstances, but I have to tell you that I don't see the day any time soon when the diesels will be just sitting on the lot waiting for buyers.

sebring95 · July 2008

Well considering the timing of introduction....I can see how they can be sold out for the calendar year. They seem to be putting very few on the street from what I've seen/heard. If they're actually planning to sell more than a handfull of these, the prices will come down. Most of the public only sees $5/gallon diesel....regardless of how the math works out in real life.

drvsalot · July 2008

are the cars comfortable on 1.5- 2 hrs drive time? i would agree with the civic comment, but that is not a car in my consideration. my choices are currently the accord, camry, impala, and 09 maza6 and of course the tdi. each has ups and downs, but the bottom line is 1.-- mpg's and a close second is comfort and ride. i also agree with you about them not flying off the lot. Most people don't know about diesel cars and if they do, don't drive enough for an economical payback. it takes alot of miles to pay the differance of the 19-20k price tag of a standard jetta and the 24-25k price tag of the tdi, including interest. most people are having a hard time paying $4/gal, much less $4.89/gal.
the only reason i started my research is that a family member has a F350 diesel that he put a 50 hp chip in and is getting approx 21 mpg on the interstate. i started asking myself the question "if it can be done with a pickup that size, what could be done with a car?"

bpeebles · July 2008

are the cars comfortable on 1.5- 2 hrs drive time?

OF COURSE THEY ARE!! These are German road-cars. I have taken my Jetta TDI on trips of 16 hours.... regularly.

The seats in VW are designed for comfort. My seats move up/down, forward/back, lean and have lumbar adjustments. I have a bad back and every few hours, I like to change the lumbar setting a bit.

The ONLY time it got uncomfortable was a trip from Vermont-->Colorado-->Vermont in 5 days. The engine did not cool off...we just rotated thru 3 drivers.

PLUS-- I have averaged 50MPG over the 90,000 miles I have owned it.

Do not forget that TDI engines continue to get better MPG for the first 20,000 miles or so.

sebring95 · July 2008

I've not driven a vehicle that was a better road warrior than my prior Jetta TDI. Can't speak much of the newest ones as I don't have seat time in them, but historically I've always found VW/Audi products to be extremely comfy. And I've got considerable seat time in a lot of different vehicles including the Accords (older gen), as well as the newest Camrys, and Impalas. MPG will go to the TDI by a long shot for any of the vehicles you're considering.

I had a few performance mods on my TDI, and yes you can increase the performance without killing the economy. However, if you constantly hammer on the go-pedal it will lower your mpg. You won't get 50hp on a TDI with a chip....the full-size truck diesels are quite different than a TDI. Plus it will be awhile before any performance mods are available (guessing....emissions controls might be an issue).

elias · July 2008

dvsalot, I drive about 80% interstate too, 79 mph. I get 45 mpg consistently with the 06 TDI, got 48 mpg consistently with the 03. My 4 TDIs have all been reliable, yes. 120 miles to the nearest dealer would probably make me think twice, depending which dealerships/brands were nearby! Local VW dealership has been excellent, and is 15 miles away.
also, i've driven passat TDI and jetta TDI on bostonSanJose commutes ,
and from bostonflorida more times than I can count. They are fine for long roadtrips.

obie · July 2008

My dealer here in NC said the Sportwagen TDIs should be shipped about the same time as the Sedans, late August or early September. Maybe you'll get lucky.

jkinzel · July 2008

That seems to be the time frame I have heard the most.

Thanks

micosilver · July 2008

2008 Jetta TDI Loyal Edition sedans are already in port, and they should arrive before August 4th. Wagons will not arrive probably until September

Mico

jkinzel · July 2008

Thanks Mico.
If I didnt have to pay both CA and WA sales tax, Id come down and buy from you. Seems both states want a pint of my blood from my understanding.

ruking1 · July 2008

No that is not correct. Once they know where the domicile of the car is they are bound to charge the taxation rate of domicile.

kyfdx · July 2008

If you take delivery in California, you have to pay CA sales tax... no matter where you live..

If he had the car shipped.. or driven across the state line by a dealership employee (IOW, delivered out of state), then he could avoid the CA sales tax.. but, of course, he would still pay tax in WA, where he lives..

obie · July 2008

Well sportsfans, I guess I'm in it for real now. Took a second test drive and plunked down my 500 bucks to get on the waiting list at my local dealership. Technically I also placed an order (for a black sedan with DSG), but I get to consider any car that comes to the dealership if all above me on the list have passed on it. So, will that mean 4 weeks or 4 months? Who knows. But at least I'm in the queue. Now I can start obsessing over whether I picked the right color or not. :confuse:

malmouza · July 2008

I hate to disappoint anybody whos considering to buy the new 2009 jetta at above the MSRP price charged by the dealers. First anybody whos looking to buy this new diesel car need to do some research and calculate the purchase cost versus the operating cost. As we all know the cost of diesel is close to $1 more than the Gas depending on where you live, the maintenance cost for diesel car is more expensive than the Gas one, the initial added cost for purchasing diesel is around $3600. I am sure a lot of people whos looking to buy diesel they were quoted $23600 for the new Jetta diesel SE, automatic. We all know the Gas version of the same car is around $20000, and I can get it for less than that at some dealers. Now you need to do simple calculation between gas and diesel version of the same car; if I fill the tank of both cars with the same dollar amount, how many miles will I travel? Using the EPA numbers for both cars 21/29 MPG for gas version and 29/40 MPG for the diesel version, lets use the highway numbers for both cars. Assuming the gas price is $4.00 and the diesel is $5; for $50 fill up in each car, this means that money will buy us 12.5 gallons of gas, and 10 gallons of diesel. With the diesel we will travel 400 miles, versus 362.5 miles with gasoline car. As you can see the difference is 37.5 miles. If you are spending $100 a month for fuel, this translates to 900 miles difference every year between the two vehicles, a $125 saving every year. Which bring me to the conclusion that if your initial added cost was $2000 you will need to keep driving that car for 16 years before you get all your money back. One more thing is the price of diesel is still going up faster than the gasoline; and the reason is simple there is more demand for diesel in the USA right now than there is for gasoline. To backup this claim read this two report http://seekingalpha.com/article/68468-why-is-diesel-more-expensive-than-regular-- gas , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_usage_and_pricing .
I think the wise purchase at this time for long term is a midsize sedan that can get you 36 MPG like the CIVIC, or the VERSA, or the COROLLA,,, I hope this information help people looking for a new car make a good decision on there investment in transportation.

icat · July 2008

I don't know about the '09 costs but I can tell you that we drove to Myrtle Beach from Cleveland, Ohio in our '06 Jetta TDI and averaged 560mi per tank carrying four adults and about 150 lbs of other stuff. I drove between 75-80MPH other than for about 30 minutes of back up where 501 leads to the coast.

Maintenance costs are going to have to over twice as high as a gas powered vehicle (not close to the case) in order to take me out of the Jetta. On the other hand, I would NEVER pay a premium for a vehicle...period!

morey000 · July 2008

your math is close enough (although diesel is about 90 cents more than RUG where I'm at) but even though the vehicles are about the same size, I've never considered a Corolla, Civic of Versa as a competitive vehicle with the Jetta. The Jetta is a much heavier vehicle. and, Maybe it's just the style, the way it drives, and interior quality.

So- money isn't everything.

For us, the Jetta TDI is in competition with the Prius- which is about the same price.
The Jetta Sportwagon- not sure what the competition for that is?

Money isn't the only factor here. The whole driving experience between a Jetta and a Corolla is different. But thanks for the reality check.

ruking1 · July 2008

..."CIVIC, or the VERSA, or the COROLLA,,, "

Wish OEMS that make cars like these offered diesel models. An above diesel model and more would literally revolutionize that segment. Truly it will revolutionize almost any segment. Perhaps that is what oems that do NOT want/plan to come out with a diesel model are afraid off.

So for example on a 03 Jetta (as there is much more data and 5/6 years of it) the fuel mileage is app 42% better than the gasser models. (I get 50 mpg vs 29) . If the Honda Civic (I have, so you can see I compare them side by side EVERY DAY) would get 42% better, trust me I would be tickled pink @ 67 mpg !!!! (39 mpg gasser) Honda can't match VW's ratios? No problem, I'd still be tickled (less) pink @ 55 mpg vs 39 mpg. (29%)

At the time, the diesel was a 246. option over a 1.8T. In hindsight (5/6 years) the diesel sells for 6,000 MORE than the like used 1.8T !!! So a 246 dollar "premium" nets (5/6 years later) 6,000 more!? I wish I could do that consistently in the stock market!!!! (406% per year)

sebring95 · July 2008

It's good you're doing the math and questioning all aspects. Most folks don't look at all sides of the equation. However, I take exception with your math when you start say "someone that spends $100/month of fuel". The correct way to really look at it is "someone that drives X miles per month". Fuel cost is variable but most folks have to drive a certain number of miles. So if we assume $100 in todays gas at 29mpg....that person would be driving ~725 miles per month or only 8,700 miles per year. 12,000-15,000 is far more the average, and generally on the low end for someone shopping a commuter or high mileage vehicle. But assuming only 15k miles per year the savings is about $193/year. Still not a big number, but another factor you're not considering is that generally speaking the premium you pay up-front tends to always stay with the diesel vehicle. So really you're losing out on present value of cash or some financing charges on the difference. Historically, the resale of TDI's have actually brought a premium of more than the up-front cost compared to the gas models. Higher maintenance on a diesel isn't exactly a fact, but could be depending on the situation. But by that token, I'm sure there are folks that have 100% variances in their maintenance costs between identical vehicles.

There's also always more than just numbers to figure in here. While comparing the TDI to the gas Jetta is the most accurate in terms of return-on-investment, I don't believe those two are actually targeting the same market. I think what the Jetta TDI has to offer is a much more accomodating and upscale vehicle that returns the operating costs of an economy car. As most folks on this forum know, when my prior TDI was totalled I grabbed a good deal on an '07 Civic. I sold it within a few months as it just wasn't the right vehicle for me on several levels. To me, if the economies made any sense I would commute in a 3-series bimmer, maybe an Acura TL, Audi A4....something along those lines. But they're not generally easy on fuel or the pocketbook in a lot of ways.

I would agree that overall cost, a Civic/Versa/Corolla likely could be cheaper to own/operate, you just don't get a lot of vehicle. But at the same time, if you truly want the cheapest option a Chevy Cobalt or Ford Fusion would likely be even more economical. In my corporate days, the vehicle fleet for our company (over 2,000 units) was under my domain and Toyota/Honda couldn't touch our Chevy/Ford fleet in terms of long-term cost. The Camry required nearly double the service miles to break even and repairs are hard to predict at 200k+ miles.

ed_grant · July 2008

I am a proud owner of a 06 Jetta TDI with package 2 and DSG - the works. I could not be more happy with the purchase. I have have 65,000 miles. I considered purchasing the 09 but cannot justify the purchase at this time, because of the cost and the potential of converting to the use of biodiesel.

I live in Apollo Beach, FL and am considering purchasing one of the homebrew kits. I know that the cheapest way is the Appleseed setup. I have seen many of these on line and am not pleased with the looks and potential safety of the setup. Therefore, I am looking at one of the more expensive setups.

My problem is the cost amortiztion. Just like the premium being charged for the gas versus diesel in the 09 Jetta, I am having difficulty justifying the cost. I would like to find some TDI owners in the Tampa-St. Pete area that would like to cost share the venture. I am estimating the cost per gallon of good bio would be 1.70-2.00 per gallon. The cheapest setup looks like a total expenditure of 3,500-4,000 for a unit that can produce 40 gallons per batch. That could supply enough biodiesel for 6 people. That brings the average cost per person to 600-700.

Question: are there any TDI users in the Tampa area interested?

ed_grant · July 2008

I just finished a trip from FL to Ohio to Iowa and back to FL. The comfort of the car was outstanding. NO SORE SPOTS ANYWHERE. The car was an 06 TDI. I have owned so many cars I cannot remember the total (over 30 Mustangs alone). I have never owned a better car period. What a combination - drive 70-80 mph and get 45 mpg - incredible comfort in a German car - really inexpensve at mid 20K versus 40k+ - nearly unlimited miles if properly maintained.

malmouza · July 2008

I agree with you analogy, but I am looking at the data in the past 5 years. The difference in price between diesel and gasoline is widening every year. It is true that the value of Jetta diesel went to the roof, and we all know the reason is the conversion kit that people they buy for about $3000 to make their car run on biodiesel or vegetable oil. But even now in some part of California some of the fast food industry start charging people for that oil, then they need converted to a usable fuel. Add to that the fact that Honda is bringing the 2.2L i-cdi engine in the 2009 Accord with competitive prices, and may be Chrysler, and GM will follow the same path, since both they sell a lot of Diesel cars in Europe, this alone will drop the price of the used Jetta to certain level; and I am sure you know the game in the market is based on demand and supply. The best time to sell a used Jetta diesel is now; I have a friend that he sold his 2006 Jetta for $23800, and now he ordered the 2009 for the same price. But like everybody knows the market change, and now all the auto manufacturing Honda, VW, Mercedes, even BMW are bringing their diesel cars because they solved one of the hurdle they have to meet the EPA emission requirement. But people they are going to go for the high mileage advertised for those vehicles at first then they will realize that they are not saving that much compared to gasoline engines, especial if the gap between the two fuels keep widening. Very interesting discussion.

ruking1 · July 2008

I clearly have no evidence of this and am merely swagging under the 1st amendment rights, but perhaps that (using commercially available ULSD 2 and not that "boot legged" bio diesel "trash") was part of the "dope" deal for VW to put its diesels on the US market.

My take is the US market gives lip service to alternative fuels (aka bio diesel) but is LOATHED to put any products on the market that actually are specified to run ALTERNATIVE fuels (bio diesel. and included the various oil variants).

I also realize the discussion borders on the federal/state felony, as all of us know we are required to file the fed/state IRS/FTXB forms when volunteering to pay on road fuel taxes. (or NOT, hence Fed/State felony

)

gagrice · July 2008

you will need to keep driving that car for 16 years before you get all your money back.

I just picked this as an example of the error in your post. I bought a 2005 Passat TDI in April 2005 when diesel was more than gas up in Portland Oregon. I sold it in San Diego in May of 2006 for $3000 more than I paid for it new. That point being the diesel will hold its value better than the gasser.

In San Diego today diesel is less than 45 cents difference. As many owners will attest the new Jetta TDIs are capable of a lot better mileage than the EPA estimates. I calculated that with the current price of gas in CA being $4.50 per gallon diesel would have to cost at least $7 per gallon to be less cost effective.

That leads up to the driving experience. Until you have taken both the gas version and the diesel version of the VW out on the highway you will be clueless as to the superiority of the diesel engine. If your thing is racing from stop light to stop light and don't do much highway driving. I recommend one of the little rice rockets for under $20k. They are cheap to modify and gas mileage is not a concern.

Lastly and my biggest reason for wanting another diesel is alternative fuel. Currently biodiesel is the ONLY practical alternative to fossil fuel. With the research in algae to biodiesel and Natural gas to diesel it would be good to have at least one diesel in your stable.

VW Jetta TDI

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