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Volkswagen TDI Models Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    edited March 2011
    For sure they do not and it is not easy to do a like for like comparison. That is one reason why I focused on a like miles scheduled and unscheduled and cost of fuel comparisons. RUG Fuel per gal (to go 120,000 miles) almost always cost less per gal than diesel. On the other side, fuel to go 120,000 miles uses MORE fuel.

    The "bling" aspect of the other stuff is important mostly to what makes you feel good while you do the miles(in my example 120,000 miles). Importantly it is either helpful or not, for the resale portion. The resale value of course lowers your per mile driven: depreciated (when you finally sell) You can see this in MB's and BMW used cars. Almost all are high quality but the resale values and percentages drop like rocks. Now TDI's have higher resale values both dollar wise and percentage wise over its gasser counter parts. Also in the example I gave it has higher $'s and more importantly percentage wise than the Civic (gasser)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    edited March 2011
    Indeed. It could also be a demo and/or (dealership) executive car. If one is truly interested in a car with 7,500 untitled (aka sold as new) you might wish to ask what incentives they are willing to do.
  • zambaqzambaq Posts: 14
    If the bulk of your driving is in the city, and if driving in Chicago is anything like it is in NYC (i.e. stop-stop-and-go, congested "express"ways, etc.), AND if MPG is your primary concern, then you should definitely go with a hybrid.

    I live in New York, and while my '09 Jetta TDI gets great mileage (40+) on the open highway (outside the city), it averages only slightly above 20 when confined to the 5 boroughs. So far, despite the nagging worry about the fragile HPFP, I love my Jetta, but not enough to delude myself into believing that the EPA's city estimate is based on REAL city driving conditions.

    Good luck!
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    edited March 2011
    Actually the mpg for the Golf/Jetta ARE based on REAL world city driving conditions. While the bold print EPA miles are 29 C/ 40 h they are 24 to 34 city and 33 to 47 mpg highway.

    While I am sure this is LONG since forgotten, when the 04 Prius came out the EPA was 60 city and 50 highway. I am guessing this motivated HUGE numbers of people to buy Prius. Not too long afterward, there was a great bru ha ha that mpg was MUCH lower than epa's of 60 c / 50 h. Politically, it caused the EPA to adopted an even more complex (more prone to error and favoring hybrids) test. Even today, you really can not get a real picture of what ACTUAL range really triggered the Prius owners (small but obviously vocal) discontent.

    Because I was seriously interested in the 2004 Prius (@ one time), the best I could get was it was giving 46 to 48 mpg. This was app 5 mpg better than the 2003 Prius.

    Again the real issue (other than fuel mileage) is the fact the real competition to the Jetta TDI (09) is really the Camry Hybrid. As such the Toyota is thousands more and the Jetta TDI gets better fuel mileage. A dot.gov site shows owners report an average of 3.6 mpg more than the Camry Hybrid owners.

    So it would be interesting to see what you would get driving a Camry Hybrid in the 5 bouroughs. Or any thing else for that matter.
  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    Your city figure of 20 is too low. Something is definitely wrong with it. With a properly functioning 09 Jetta TDI, you couldn't get a figure as low as 20 in the city if you idled it for 10 minutes at every street light you encountered and floored it every time you left a light.

    Sam
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    Yes I would tend to agree. The worst I have ever gotten on 03 TDI Jetta was 44 mpg and it was in (tank full, not MFD) ) 300 miles stop and go traffic in down town Las Vegas with 4 people in the car, A/C blasting in 104 degrees ambient temperature.
  • zambaqzambaq Posts: 14
    I'm sure you're correct about all your figures, but I'm just reporting my own experience, and even that sliding EPA city estimate of 24 to 34 would still leave me and my Jetta on the outside looking in. Perhaps the EPA should add another category especially for NY -- how about EXTREME City? :) (BTW, I don't think anyone would accuse me of being an aggressive driver, and if something were wrong with my particular car, why would it get such good mileage --up to 50 when I'm really trying-- on the highway?)

    I don't agree that the '09 Jetta's real competition is the Camry. That might be true of the new, roomier 2011 Jetta, but my brother has a Camry, so it's easy for me to compare -- his car feels like a leviathan on the road, and mine more like a little darter! In any case, Chidrive is considering buying a Golf TDI, for which a Prius is a better comparison.

    And I stand by my original assertion: that for someone interested in buying an "affordable" car for mainly CITY driving, and for whom MPG is the #1 priority, hybrid/electric is a better option (maybe 75% better even by your figures) than diesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    edited March 2011
    I just read them off the 09 Jetta TDI new car sticker. Power and such, the Camry Hybrid REMAINS the real competition. I think really what you probably want is a idle shut off diesel as they already have in the European market. I am sure you have been to Europe. Most taxi's are diesels!!??

    I really think that if stop and go is the real meat and potatoes, you have to remember that NYC taxis were primarily V-8 Crown Vics. What did they get on a good day? 15 mpg? It also makes you wonder, if Prius's were so good, why did it take the NYC taxi community app 10 years to start to implement the brand as Taxi's? I have read in passing we are talking less than NYC taxis of 13,700 units. NY coruts have stopped the implementation of hbrids beyond 33%?

    How many "TAXI's?
  • zambaqzambaq Posts: 14
    Agreed that an idle shut-off would help mpg in NYC! Is that feature on the 2011 TDIs?
    You asked "if Prius's were so good, why did it take the NYC taxi community app 10 years to start to implement the brand as Taxi's?" Answer: the sluggishness of bureaucracy combined with our general resistance to the new. All things considered, I'm impressed that the city under Bloomberg started pushing for hybrid taxis as early as 2005 and that a third of all yellow cabs are now hybrids. (The courts haven't decided that 33% is the limit, only that the city cannot require all taxis be hybrid, which would mean setting a mandate in conflict with the Fed's.) Drivers and owners didn't get with the program until The Great Fuel Price Spike of'08, and now that we seem headed there again, Prius-driving cabbies are smiling "I told you so!" at their unconverted brethren.

    BTW, I'm sure you noticed that the only diesel on that Wiki-list of "approved taxi models" was in fact the '09 Jetta TDI, but only twice have I actually spotted one dressed up as a yellow cab! The city has been on a quest to come up with a new, iconic taxi model to replace the disappearing Crown Vic and the late, lamented Checkers cabs, but I've been disappointed so far in the bug-eyed results. I think they should take a cue from London and go with a retro look, a design that references the Checkers models, something along the lines of the American-made Standard Taxi that was part of the Taxi 07 exhibit at the 2007 NY Auto Show.
    http://autoshow.autos.msn.com/autoshow/NewYork2007/photogallery.aspx?cp-document- id=4679493

    Interesting to note that the very first motorized vehicles used as taxis in NYC were electric, especially given all the talk (110+ yrs. later) about the "taxi of the future" being an EV. Even VW is belatedly joining the party, though of course NOT in America....
    http://www.plugincars.com/vw-shows-plug-taxi-concept-london-reportedly-close-app- roving-production-106583.html

    Happy Persian New Year!
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    I am not sure why you glossed over the fact the NYC taxi community doesnt want to be "forced" mandated to do hybrid is probably what the Bloomberg admin would say, are much great costs. Again I would swag that is probably why most taxis in Europe are diesels, lower costs than gassers and gasser hybrids.
  • dobrovoddobrovod Posts: 15
    I decided to get a new Golf TDI but went with a stock model that will be available in 2-3 weeks instead of waiting 2-3 months on a custom build. The only items that I would have considered adding are splash guards and xenon headlamps. Does anyone know:

    1. Can these be added by a dealer later with OEM parts?
    2. How much more do they cost than adding them as ordered options?

    Thank you.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    With enough money, almost ANYTHING can be effected. Splash guards are an easy port to dealer oem like add on. I am sure you can get a price and get an independent (aftermarket) to do it FAR cheaper and probably a bit more to your likings and choices. As for the xenon headlamps, same thing.

    Now personally, I would stay away from xenon head lamps and for a HOST of reasons. Without a huge discussion, current draw is already pretty massive. Also xenon lamp replacement costs are factorially higher than even the expensive oem stock. I think you'd be shocked if you ever had to replace a xenon lamp housing due to a wayward stone.
  • colin_lcolin_l Posts: 591
    That's the most absurd opinion I've heard in a while. With hundreds of thousands of miles on the road, I have absolutely never had a stone break any headlight of mine, friend or family.

    HIDs conversely last the practical life of the car and give superior visibility that is very useful every night you drive.

    I utterly disagree. I have HIDs now and could buy a car without them-- they aren't a must-have-- but they are high on my 'want' list.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    edited April 2011
    What is absurd, that I neither want or need them? What is absurd is you consider that absurd.

    Then you should stifle your impatience and order them oem. I suppose if you drive mostly @ night or have night vision issues, they are indeed a help. They are a very low priority on my list.
  • vats69vats69 Posts: 1
    I have xenons on my 2011 Golf and love them. Had them on my BMW for 10 years and never had one burn out. The adaptive system on the Golf is great for improving night visibility in curves. I would highly recommend them if they fit your budget.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,046
    I hate Xenon HIDS, and this is why. Hopefully they will be outlawed.

    An analysis of automobile headlights, intraocular stray light, glare, and night driving shows that brightness rather than blueness is the primary reason for the visual problems that HID headlights can cause for older drivers who confront them. The increased light projected by HID headlights is potentially valuable, but serious questions remain regarding how and where it should be projected.

    HID headlights probably improve the safety of night driving for their users. Unfortunately, they can dazzle viewers on two lane highways, making it more difficult for approaching drivers to identify pedestrians, road hazards, and curves in the road. Night-time driving is difficult for older individuals.


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1771460/
  • dobrovoddobrovod Posts: 15
    edited April 2011
    I think I'll stay away from the xenon headlamps for now. It doesn't seem worth the expense. I will have foglights for bad conditions.

    There is a dealer around the corner from where we live. I'll just drive the car for a while without splash guards and see how dirty the door panels and back bumpers get. If I'm not happy without them, I'll inquire at my first regular maintenance.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    edited April 2011
    It would be also of interest to see what the NHTSA studies might hypothesize on the issue also. The Brit ophtho journal makes pretty clear the advantages to the HID user and the potential disadvantages to those affected by that user. Come to think of it, I have seen very few HID that are DRL's?? But then again the percentages of cars with HID's are fairly low.
  • dobrovoddobrovod Posts: 15
    edited April 2011
    I was offered this car (Golf TDI, pretty much everything but nav, xenon headlamps and splash guards) for $25,900. Does that seem reasonable?

    I also wish U.S. spec Golfs offered AWD and front and rear park assist as well but still alas no.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,046
    The EU gets the hot rod Golf GTD. The reviews are very positive. Just not available to our third world country.

    http://www.insideline.com/volkswagen/golf/2010/2010-volkswagen-golf-gtd-first-dr- ive.html
  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    edited April 2011
    I would go ahead and get the mud guards. They are not about keeping the side of the car clean (although they will to a certain degree depending on the roads/speeds you travel) but more about protecting the paint from chips coming off the tires at a pretty high rate of speed and chip-potential.

    Have them installed by either the dealer (just negotiate this into your deal as a freebee as it does not take long at all) or a well recommended auto body shop that knows where and how far to drill (assuming drilling is even necessary?) etc.

    I absolutely LOATHE HID lights. Probably wonderful for the owner until he or she has to share the road with another owner approaching them. The fun stops right there. But even still, is worse for the driver who doesn't have them and try to see the road in front of them or the shoulder looking for pedestrians walking too close to road in dark clothing. Etc. Bumpy, frost heaved roads just make them that much harder to live around. I am shocked they are allowed to be honest. I think it is the rich supporting the damn thing's momentum by demand, because in the beginning you only found them on the highest-end cars.

    If a walking marathon were held to outlaw them, sign me up. I'd walk till my poor old legs buckled at the knees if I thought there was a chance in hell the banishment would stick. Yes, I really do hate them that much. :mad: (That's the first time I have ever used a 'mad' emotorcon).

    Sam
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,934
    As far as cost/performance/value, I recommend against xenons/HID, except for those who need them for the "status".
    I've owned a car with great adapative/levelling HIDs and still prefer halogens. The xenons never burned out but I heard it's possible and expensive if they do.
  • colin_lcolin_l Posts: 591
    edited April 2011
    What was absurd was the manner in which you defended your position. You said that you don't need or like them and then created a highly improbable scenario of replacing a HID lamp due to failure or breakage.

    Anyway-- I have used OEM systems. They work great. I feel they are worth the premium, but each person needs to justify the expense on their own. (Especially if they are only available in a very costly bundle / package group.)

    They can be bright for oncoming drivers, but let's not overlook how much brighter conventional halogen lamps are today than in years past. Today's well-designed halogen projectors and reflectors throw a very bright, very broad beam compared to cars in the 80s and 90s, which themselves were far improved on 60s technology. Halogen lights on a late-model vehicle can dazzle you, especially on taller vehicles. This isn't a situation unique to HIDs.

    Aftermarket HIDs are horrible unless they replace the entire headlight assembly and they are properly aligned. Enthusiasts who toss a HID lamp into their stock equipment and point it at the moon are a much bigger problem than OEM Xenons.
  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    Aftermarket HIDs are horrible unless they replace the entire headlight assembly and they are properly aligned. Enthusiasts who toss a HID lamp into their stock equipment and point it at the moon are a much bigger problem than OEM Xenons.

    I'll give you that for sure. And like you say tall vehicles like larger SUV's and pickup trucks even with OEM halogens, but especially an upgrade to Silverstars, are hard to take.
    Next worse are vehicles that have front end damage and the lights are way out of alignment and stay that way torturing other drivers for years.

    Sam
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    There was no position to defend. I said clearly, which you did not understand clearly was that was what I would do for me. So really the absurdity was your understanding, not any position you ascribed to me.
  • colin_lcolin_l Posts: 591
    edited April 2011
    Oh come on now. I saw that you wrote 'me personally' or something to that effect in the post in question.

    And I realize we aren't behind podiums at a live debate, but the purpose of writing your opinions is for some sort of consideration by others. Otherwise they need not be written; if the only intended audience is you, what is all the typing for?

    Notice how I'm not challenging the several people who also wrote that they haven't had a car with HIDs but agree with you that they don't need them, and that they are sometimes blinded by vehicles which presumably have them.

    You may dislike them and that's fine. But they are not a maintenance or repair concern. :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,962
    edited April 2011
    Right, untill they are. Again that is also what I said. My left front drivers low beam worked just GREAT until, the lamp decided not to. As I remember, it was $5.00? to change the lamp. So at 158,000 miles the passenger low beam has been just fine.

    Do I dislike HID's? NO !! I just realize I am not the only one on the road and don't have night vision issues or they are NOT MY roads ! So what does it cost to change a low beam HID lamp?
    $75. a pr? 09 Jetta Three WARRANTY PLANS????? Standard, 3 months +$8.00, 1 year + $10.00?

    If it is not a maintenance item, makes you wonder why they sell em at all, let alone have to buy a pr? Warranties? .... ok....
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,827
    This is the Prices Paid forum.... I'm sure there are other places to discuss headlights...

    Thanks!

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • mzak1mzak1 Posts: 4
    edited April 2011
    Hi I just took the plunge and bought a 2011 Black TDi sportwagen with 700 miles on it. The only option is the automatic transmission. I live in NYC and paid 26,536, including tax and dealer fees. The 700 miles was a bit of a sticking point but the dealer took enough off to justify the price.
    I realize its too late, but was just wondering what others thought of the price that I paid.
    Thanks
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,046
    That is a couple grand less than you would pay in California out the door. I don't think the 700 miles means much at all. As long as you got the full new warranty.

    And welcome to the forum. Hope you love your VW TDI.... :)
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