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Well you did mention the cost of fuel. And this is an auto forum, so gasoline is the fuel we are usually discussing. And you didn't talk about about "trending from here", we were comparing to days long past from marsha's original post. :shades:
Let's just hope their one trick career of sending work away doesn't make it so there are eventually no American cars.
Well the D3 are sending work away and a lot of the foreign makes are bringing production in. Good to increase the diversity from the original D3-only environment. We all know how well their management did. That plus sour employees is a cancerous situation.
It's funny, I think it's 'American' to be down on ourselves and 'up' on anybody else. I've heard about 'the ugly American' for so many years, but I don't have to stop and think very hard about the times I've seen foreign folks (from many places) being overtly loud in a crowd and leaving an area a complete mess when they've left. And for me personally, I find it hard to believe that these countries considered 'cultivated' were able to be taken over by brutal dictators, only twenty years before I was born.
You do know that the Fusion will now be made in the U.S., and the Sonic is made in the U.S.--both unlike their predecessors and both high-volume cars? The Camaro and Impala are heading stateside (at least some Impala production). I'm not aware of a single automotive product built in the U.S. that is slated to be moved elsewhere.
It's always funny to me how we ascribe so many "tribal" characteristics to whole groups of people when we're all so much more alike than different. Kind of like cars - most all have four wheels and get you from point A to point B. Yet we get all riled up if driver A likes kimchi on the side better than chow chow and driver B likes cloth over leather.
The steering gear may be on the "wrong" side, but set an Impala down anywhere in the world and most people could figure out how to get it moving down the road.
A cancer will spread when actual workers learn the overblown perks and egos of their supposed superiors. Time for some to be taken down a notch.
Of course, even sooner than that time before you were born, we allied with an even worse dictator and a murderous old island at the same time - no room for moral high ground there.
Hondas have never been quiet. All of mine were loud but that was part of Honda's appeal - they weren't isolation chambers. That's what Toyota's are for.
Don't forget that you probably didn't pay any road fuel taxed on that diesel. Can't compare that $5.32 to the on the road price.
Actually I was born before Truman got stuck with the mess FDR made allying with Stalin. Truman knew we were in an unholy alliance with the Russians at Potsdam.
The truth is our rebuilding of Japan and Europe have facilitated our demise on American made goods. We started buying trinkets from Japan before the dust settled from the bombs. I don't think we have ever had a balance of trade with Japan or Germany. Now China makes those two countries look like pikers when it comes to trade.
That is true. It was still the high price of fuel for farming and heating that contributed to the end of my farming attempt. Of course borrowing money to plant at 21% was a biggie also. I watched farmers all around me sell off their land and move to town and take a job that would feed their families.
I was supposed to get an Altima from the rental place. He picked us up at the airport in the Altima and was about to let us take it when his boss said it was sold. All they had was the Accord. From the get go it was a bad experience. The fob would not unlock the doors. It would lock them. He said that was common with Honda??? That two weeks reconfirmed my dislike for Honda.
Yes, and that is all very positive. I should have clarified that I meant over the last 10-20 years. Certainly in the last few it is going the other way - let's hope it continues.
I think what I originally meant at the very beginning is, to say we're all like around the world is a nice 'kumbaya' moment, but culture comes into play, of course. I don't see that a murderous, mass evil dictatorship could have happened in the U.S. in the '40's...or any other time. That's middle ages stuff, but it happened not very long ago in several places around the world. I wonder how their cultures could have allowed it to happen.
Really, is that why they have large import tariffs on our cars and we do not reciprocate. At least with UK our trade balance is fairly equal. No question we have allowed China to run over US like a steam roller. Canada is still our largest trading partner. They are getting the better end of the deal as is Mexico thanks to NAFTA. The unfair trade balance with both Japan and Germany are real. We need our government to do their job when it comes to trade and tariffs.
Japan does not have tariffs/duties on imported cars. Or so says VW, the number one imported brand in Japan.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
I think what I originally meant at the very beginning is, to say we're all like around the world is a nice 'kumbaya' moment, but culture comes into play, of course. I don't see that a murderous, mass evil dictatorship could have happened in the U.S. in the '40's...or any other time. That's middle ages stuff, but it happened not very long ago in several places around the world. I wonder how their cultures could have allowed it to happen.
It's difficult to compare the US to Germany and Europe in the 20-30's on so many levels...
Europe as a whole had a long, long history of royalty and tiered society, whereas the US didn't (at least, officially). After WWI, many of the European governments we in a state of transition, losing the traditional ruling class. Physics demonstrates that a void is always under pressure of being filled, and so it was in that case.
The US had bad times during that period, but nothing like the phenomenal inflation that Germany experienced during the same period. Had we experienced that here, there may well have been a much different outcome.
Yes, we should be. :P
Germany and Japan are huge net exporters on a global basis because they engineer things people want.
Let's not forget two sides of this equation. It's not just what is engineered, it's also the size of the consuming population and its relative affluence. There are a lot more people in the US than Germany or Japan, and US consumers buy more stuff. So that's part of the story.
The US also "engineers" an awful lot of good stuff. The world's largest company engineers their products here. Problem is that the manufacturing is outsourced overseas.
OK then, Germany and Japan engineer and produce things desired by people on a global basis - hence their historical net exporter status. They have affluent residents, too - certainly less poverty than found here. And not quite as sharp a socio-economic chasm, which can be linked to the manufacturing issue here.
Just fyi, I work for a company and manage nobody. I'm an individual contributor, although I do work in teams on occasion.
I suspect I'd do a lot better job than a lot of the current auto company managers, though. And I don't even know their business that well. Which might be a huge advantage.
I assume you're also not a manager. :P
To me, the more recent these things happen, the worse they are....it's if nobody learned anything from the centuries-old similar stuff that happened before, even with the benefit of generations of time passing at the very least.
How many innocent people did we kill in the last decade? That's pretty recent.
Thank goodness our cars don't come from Iraq or Afghanistan. I wonder about India and China, though. I suspect we'll see one or both of them selling cars in our country in the next 1-2 decades.
To me a US-American car is something produced here with high US (not even Canadian or Mexican) content. I don't really care where HQ is based as long as the economic value is here. After all, that is what we are looking for - improving our own economy.
That is why it is good to see the Korean, German, Italian and Japanese all expanding their auto manufacturing here.
Yes, I am a worker (well, on a small team), not a manager. Not complaining, either - quite a few chiefs in my organization have been cut in the past couple years - and it hasn't had any real impact on productivity.
Either way, it is all generations past now. Nobody really owes anyone anything from those bad old days.
On a related note, I saw on another forum where Holocaust survivors are not happy about the new Chevy "SS" name. While there were posters who commented there, 'how many of them are left anyway, four?' (similar to what's been posted here before), someone did respond about his neighbor who is 75 who was a survivor and will probably live another 20 years in her current health. I would only respectfully ask those now, did you complain in 1961 when the name was first used?
This whole discussion reminds me of the weekend I was invited in 2008 to spend with Battle of the Bulge survivors at a reunion. Amazing men, amazing stories. Similarly, I'm told that if you ever went to a program where a Holocaust survivor speaks, you'll come away a changed person. I believe that.
I've heard that Chevy actually was a bit apprehensive about using the "SS" badge initially, because of the [non-permissible content removed] connotations. But, apparently, there wasn't too much backlash over it.
Personally, I think it was rare for those cars to be referred to as "SS", anyway. People might type it because it's quicker, but when speaking it, I've always heard it spoken as "Super Sport". Unless it was referring specifically to an engine, such as "SS409".
As for Holocaust and WWII survivors in general, I'm sure there are more around than we might think. Heck, my Granddad, who's 98, actually got out of the service BEFORE World War II.
And a few years back, one of my neighbors, whose husband died awhile back, recently remarried. I knew he was older than her, but when he started talking about WWII I had to ask respectfully, *how* old? I forget his exact age, but in his 80's, and pretty darn healthy.
And, while men tend to die at an earlier age than women, there are plenty women still around whose husbands served in WW2, and probably many who are Holocaust survivors, as well.
I could sure enjoy a '61 Impala SS. It would have to have a manual-tune radio because for some reason I just detest "Chevy" being spelled out on the buttons! Cheesy! A "Chevy II" or a "Chevy Van", maybe, but an Impala is a "Chevrolet"!
As I said, I was talking about "the last decade" - as in Iraq. Not wanting to go down that OT road, but we essentially bombed a country that didn't directly attack us, and killed probably >100K innocent people. Just pointing out the that US has no big claims to sainthood, either. And I wasn't even talking Guantanamo, either.
I'm with fintail on this one - what is done is done. The point is that ultimately historical morality of any country is not really relevant to discussing cars sold in the US. Certainly Germany and Japan have been good allies for decades. That's a lot longer than GM has started producing less crappy cars. If we can forgive GM, we should bury the hatchet of all these things and move on.
Yes, visit a place like Dachau, just outside of Munich....
It will definitely create a lasting impression...
Meanwhile, back to the topic please.
But I got nothing except pacing the Daytona 500 in Chevy's first rear-wheel-drive eight-cylinder performance car in 17 years.
GM's Mark Reuss will drive Daytona 500 pace car (Detroit Free Press)
There's always some victim that wants to see the world through the prism of their misfortune.
If the "SS" symbol looked like the [non-permissible content removed] emblems, I'd say its a valid argument. Otherwise, IMO, its just another red herring.
Even the Arizona DOT used the symbol before the '30s on some state highway markers (well, that's sort of topical to driving Chevys).
Exactly what I was thinking- it's not like that is the first car badged as an SS. As an aside, Jaguar was founded as the Swallow Sidecar Company in 1922, and their cars were badged as SS. After World War II the Jaguar name was adopted because of the SS connotation- although that would have been more understandable 68 years ago.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
I get so fed up with Political Correctness. Whether naming sports teams or cars, some one will be offended from some group.
Now, to German-on-both-sides me, Mr. Pasty White older guy, I think naming a team after Indians is a tribute to them, not a knockdown. But what do I know.
BTW, I did a 75-minute tour of the Cleveland Auto Show. Had a free ticket and didn't want to kill the whole day. There were three Impalas there, but only one you could climb into (others were roped off). It must have been the same one andre had seen earlier--navy blue with pumpkin-colored leather--a bit much for me but my wife, upon hearing about it, said, "oooohhh". Honestly, I expected the car to seem wider inside, and the rear legroom didn't seem any greater than our '11 Malibu with 112.3 inch wheelbase, but then there was a lady in the RF seat at the time and I don't know how far she had it back. I got into the driver's seat and it was back quite a bit....I couldn't have driven it like that. The guy giving the schpiel about it said there are two four-cylinders, which I hadn't heard...a 2.4L with 182 hp and a 2.5 with 197, then the 3.6 V6 with 303 hp. He said the first ones dealers will get will be the 3.6 (surprise)!. I did like the styling, although the rear reminded me of a Sonata (you heard it here first). I watched a few younger guys (30's) with their Dads, hearing a couple times, "Dad, this is the new Impala" and one in particular said, "I don't like it". I said to him, "It should have three lights on each side in the back!" (only half-kiddingly) and he said "I have an '08 and don't like it as much as that".
Someone else had posted in the past few weeks that the Cruze's U.S./Canada content was 45%. Every one I looked at today was 56%--still not high enough but more than the 45% reported. I looked at only LT's with automatics, but all were assembled in OH, and all had engines and transmissions assembled in the U.S.
They had no '14 Corvettes to look at, a disappointment. I overheard one guy say "There are only three for the Auto Show circuit and I believe one is in Geneva now". Who knows if true or B.S.
One thing I liked about the ZL-1 Camaro was its large piano-black panels on the interior door panels. I like piano black as a decoration.
One vehicle that struck me immediately as having too much wheel opening for the little tires was a base-model Honda CR-V. Upon looking closer, they were 16-inch tires. Who'da thunk I'd be so used to bigger that 16 inch seemed small?
Over at the Caddy display, I liked seeing an ATS with red interior--yea! not black or gray! But the car I probably liked best of all that I looked at during the whole show, not factoring price into the equation? The Cadillac XTS. I simply like that size car, and to me it looks "Cadillac" and modern at the same time. (I like the exterior size of the Impala too).
One of the eye-candy gals at the Buick display approached me, looked at my sweatshirt and said, "Clarion? I graduated from there too!". We talked for probably two or three minutes.
My favorite part of the whole show was looking at the fifty or so 'classic' cars parked in another room.
I can see something like "Pontiac", and the image of Chief Pontiac being viewed as a tribute. But isn't "Redskin" a derogatory term? I also recall reading that when the Chevy Apache truck came out, there was a lot of backlash. But, wasn't "Apache" the name of a tribe?
Going back to 2011, I would've taken a Malibu over an Impala, in a hearbeat.
Apache is a tribe. I think Chevy quit using that after '61, just when they started using "SS"!
My high school did the Redskins to Redhawks fiasco in the '80s. My school had even obtained permission from cartoonist Al Capp to use the character Lonesome Polecat from his Lil' Abner comic strip. When the school pesters me for a contribution I tell them I can't help, because I am-and always will be-a Redskin!!!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
They did have a couple '14 Silverados. I'm not a truck buyer, but I did look at one. I like the Terrain-like wheel openings. The one on a turntable was a color very much like my '81 Monte Carlo's 'dark jade' (not nearly as dark as '82 dark jade, andre!). It could have been the lights, though. I liked the chrome front end...way more cohesive IMHO than pics I've seen of the new Tundra. The gal giving the schpiel mentioned three engineering features that no other trucks had, but I didn't bother to listen beyond that.
Regarding the CRV - a base model is painfully cheap looking, the wheels give it away. Tightwad special. Red interiors can be cool, MB offers them now. Local dealer has a phenomenal loaded white on red C63 AMG - but at something like 87K, not for me.