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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?



  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    are you sure? Lincoln will be competing there with a number of prestigious brands from around the world.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,070
    Lincoln has absolutely nothing that appeals to me as both an owner of a Cadillac and a Mercury Grand Marquis LS. I would sooner buy a Chrysler 300 or an import.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    And? For every Grand Marquis fan there are 10000 potential buyers who would prefer a MKZ or MKC.
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    Really? Here's another Grand Marquis fan that just bought a Lexus. No re-badged Ford for me.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    You prefer rebadged Toyotas? I was referring to folks who think Lincoln should be town cars and grand marquis instead of modern designs like Lexus.

    Not sure you understand what rebadged means.
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 109
    edited December 2013
    What Toyota passenger cars - not SUVs or crossovers- besides the ES share platforms with Lexus? Aren't all Toyotas FWD and all Lexus models -excluding the models listed in my previous sentence- RWD. Which Nissan models besides the Z and GTR are RWD as are -excluding SUVs and crossovers- all Infinitie passenger cars? Now about Audi, all of its passenger cars from A4 upward and its Q5 crossover SUV use the MLB platform while its low cost models share the MQB platform with Volkwagen. This also includes the Audi TT. It's only Lincoln and Acura that share lower priced vehicle platforms across their entire model line. Lincoln and Acura may not meet the definition of being rebadged but they do meet the definition of being badge engineered.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    We're not just talking about cars. Lexus' two biggest sellers are the ES and RX both based on a Toyota FWD platform. Lincoln's first 2 new vehicles are the MKZ and MKC followed by the MKX. Because that's where the sales volume and profits are. They'll have some bespoke high performance platforms that you think they need - they're just not the first priority.

    The MKC started with an escape platform but they modified the track, width, height and every piece of sheet metal plus the entire suspension and interior. And added a new engine. How much do they have to change it before it's not a badge job?

    If Lincoln uses the mustang platform will you say the same thing about badge engineering or does that only count with fwd platforms?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,419
    Here we go again. Can't we all just get along? LOL.

    What we can all agree to right now is that Lincoln does not have a competitive line-up. Even Acura, with its questionable styling and Honda underpinnings across the line-up, sells two to three times as many vehicles in the US as Lincoln does.

    Lincoln's offerings mostly suck when compared to the competition. We all agree that the Navigator, MKS, MKX and MKT need to be revamped. The MKZ needs tweaking too, as it sells "ok" at 2800 units per month, but that is hardly anything on which to sustain a brand.

    The MKC looks to be done right for its class, from everything I have seen about it so far. But two models that are, or will be soon, competitive won't reverse Lincoln's fortunes. The MKC won't even be in showrooms until fall, 2014.

    Ford is still concentrating on Ford, and that may not be a bad thing. The new Mustang (fall 2014) looks like a hit out of the park. The new F150 will be along at about the same time. The new Edge too. The two new Transit sizes are coming at about the same time. The Ford brand pays the bills. Lincoln does not add much to the bottom line, unlike for example Audi whose far smaller sales than Volswagen still nearly provide similar bottom line profits.

    Lincoln is still the stepchildof Ford. Even though many more resources are being thrown at it, it is still not enough when even Hyundai and Kia are beginning to put out superior premium products. Well, ok, what is planned by Lincoln could give Acura a run for its money in about two years. But every established premium brand has far more new iron in the pipeline than Lincoln does. The plan as I understand it is that Lincoln will expand to a seven model lineup by some time in 2015.

    Audi and Mercedes and BMW have handfuls of new models coming to market in just the next two years. Cadillac is a distant competitor in this arena, but even they have clawed a way back to some respectability with good sales by the ATS (a new market for Cadillac audaciously going up against the iconic BMW 3 series), SRX, XTS (3,400 sales last month for a full size and quite expensive FWD sedan--a market that continues to shrink), the new CTS which will soon build sales beyond even what the ATS has done, and the new Escalade which goes on sale early next year. The ATS coupe and ELR coupe won't add many sales, but like the German big three's many specialized offerings, they will bring peoplle into the showroom who will then look at some of the other more practical choices.

    That's something Lincoln truly lacks...anything like Ford's Mustang that will cause people who have a sort of allegiance to another brand to have a look. Even if Lincoln had that sort of "halo" model, like Allen points out, the other highly competitive and more practical products simply aren't there yet.

    Lincoln will need the better part of two decades to again have the opportunity to become the player it was from 1990 to 2000. In 1990, Lincoln sold about four times as many vehicles as it does today. Cadillac speeded up their recovery by spending inordinate amounts of money. It is working for them so far, but was a huge gamble.

    Lincoln on the other hand seems to now have adopted a more "Acura approach" to their overhaul. Mind you, Acura still has more money and resources committed to the process than Lincoln does, but Lincoln has definitely stepped it up. It gives me some hope that Lincoln will still be here in 20 years, but I wouldn't bet on them surpassing Cadillac anytime soon, as Lincoln first did in 1998 after 59 years, and again in 2000.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I don't agree that Lincoln is taking an Acura approach. I think that's just where the low hanging fruit is to get started. We're hearing that Lincoln has a lot more new and exciting vehicles in the pipeline that haven't been announced yet. Don't mistake product secrecy and methodical progress with apathy.
  • edward53edward53 Posts: 109
    edited January 17

    Is Lincoln dead meat. In2013, Cadillac sold 182,543 units which is an increase of aprox 22% over its total sales from 2012.. Lincoln ,in 2013, sold a total of 81,694 units which is a decrease of about 0.5 % from its total sales of 2012 yr. I would think that Lincoln should be showing some improvement over last yrs sales if Lincoln were going to be viable product. After all the MKZ was to put Lincoln back in the premium vehicle game. It may be time for Ford to stick a fork in Lincoln and call it cooked.

  • berriberri Posts: 4,000

    I kind of think Lincoln's big problem in a nutshell is that it is trying to sell a premium car at a luxury car price. Fomoco needs to decide if it wants Lincoln to be a Buick or a Cadillac and build and price accordingly.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622

    Lincoln lost 3 months of MKZ sales due to launch issues. And the ATPs for Lincoln now are much higher than before. On MKZ the current ATPs are something like 60% higher than the previous model and they aren't offering many incentives. So while volumes may be low, profits are not and that's all that Lincoln cares about right now as it looks to put out 5 new vehicles in the next 3-4 years.

  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,305

    Ford is profitable while GM is popular, but owned by Fiat . As an investor, I'll take profits over popularity any day.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622

    Chrysler is owned by Fiat, not GM.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,637

    When it comes to products like the LS or the Navigator, Ford has to really step up the longterm reliability.

  • berriberri Posts: 4,000

    Ford has to really step up the longterm reliability.

    Kind of true for all of D3 isn't it? They've made good progress on early ownership, but after the warranty expires they still seem kind of iffy compared to some transplants.

  • edward53edward53 Posts: 109

    GM is again tied with Toyota as being the Worlds biggest Automaker. Ford fell a notch below nissan.

  • edward53edward53 Posts: 109

    I live in San Diego and Lincoln dealers here are value pricing Lincolns when highlighting Lincoln's standard features and price advantage when compared to other premiere makes. Lets face it . Lincoln dealers can do that because Lincolns share Ford vehicle platforms. Of course, that also means that Lincolns are not as exclusive as other premier makes. One can say they are Fords with slightly different styles.

  • edward53edward53 Posts: 109

    According to current sales for January Lincoln will probably top out at a total of about 6600 unit sales with the MKZ accounting for about 2500 of the units.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,637

    . "Of course, that also means that Lincolns are not as exclusive as other premier makes. One can say they are Fords with slightly different styles."

    One could say the same for the Jaguar S-Type for that matter.

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