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Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?



  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    "Even though the MKT shares a platform with the Flex, no one would ever guess that without being told. Further, the MKT is the first crossover that has a luxury sedan flavor to its profile. The bustle back gives it that presence of an upscale sedan from the 1940s:"

    Personally, I dont think the MK T will ever be built - at least not looking like this concept does. However, if I'm wrong and they do build the bustle-back CUV, people mover, sedan type thing whatever u want to call it. If they do build that monstrousity, then they are just setting themselves up to be laughed out of Dearborn. It's just ridiculous. Remember the Aztec, it's a lot like that. And the Blackwood, Lincoln can afford another flop like that?. I just have to sit here in utter amazement that they'd want to build a thing like that with all the other concepts we waltched them toss out the window. Just crazy. I think Lincoln needs to institute random drug testing.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    I suppose you could be right, but I don't think so. I cannot believe anyone at GM in a position to know better signed off on the Aztec. No one who ever lived thought it was attractive. Therein lies the difference. While I hear loud and clear how much you hate the MKT, I think it is the best and most creative thing they have issued since the Continental concept. If you look at the boards, there are many others who like it too. So we will see, I guess.

    The Blackwood was an attractive pickup. It would have sold fine, if they had offered: an open bed option, a rear bench seat optiion, and most of all, a 4WD or AWD option. That they couldn't figure this out, nor do so in time to save the thing, was totally inept. Then they compound the error by slapping a Lincoln name on an F150. Hopefully, they are done with that level of stupidity.

    The MKT is bold, it turns some people off totally (like you), and that's what Lincoln needs now. Even if it flops--and I'll bet you big time it won't if they retain most of the concept's looks--at least they are back on the track of innovation and creativity, rather than just trying to provide adequate models to cover the market.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,020
    Then they compound the error by slapping a Lincoln name on an F150.

    While I agree it was an error from a strategic product perspective, I think it was done as a quick, easy way to give the Lincoln dealers a product to move when the Lincoln/Mercury product lineup was extremely thin. So from that perspective it served its purpose.

    The 09 F150 will have a Platinum edition which will be even nicer than the Mark LT. And Lincoln has the MKX and MKS so the Mark LT isn't really needed anymore.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,206
    Yes, as you and akirby stated, I think the main issues are:

    Lincoln gets the funds to produce a top-notch product

    They stay focused on the design effort, the "language and message" if you will, from initial concept to design freeze

    They stay committed to the job, start to finish, as well as after during the later-on updates, freshening , mid-model design improvements - whatever the buzz-word(s) will be at the time.

    Continue with new products that are for the intended markets, as well as those they can tap.

    Finally not starved of product, money, updates (in other words - don't let history repeat itself)
  • xhe518xhe518 Posts: 107
    Then they compound the error by slapping a Lincoln name on an F150.

    One thing I don't understand is - you hear lots of complaints about the Blackwood not being a 'real' truck - (no bed, no payload, no 4WD, etc...)..... So, what's wrong with a Lincoln grille on a "real" truck? Wasn't the original Blackwood basically an F-150 with a Lincoln grille, minus the real pickup bed?
  • I think long term we'll see more performance luxury vehicles but right now the AWD 340 hp MKS is the best they can do.

    I wish they had an AWD 340HP MKS "right now." Allen, have you heard of a launch date more specific than "summer 2008" for the base MKS? Also, they have said the Ecoboost should arrive "less than a year after MKS launch." Have you heard anything more precise?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Yes and no. Of course the Navigator is based on the F150 and Expedition, but the Nav has its own distinctive styling and interior. The Blackwood was a pickup version of the Navigator.

    The Mark LT initially WAS an F150 with an ersatz Lincoln grill put in the F150 grill opening. Extra tail light trim was added to the tailgate. It was so blatantly an F150 that it had little reason to live.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,020
    Have you heard anything more precise?

    Nope. Last I heard was early April for Job 1 on the MKS, in dealers starting in May. Unless I'm getting that confused with the Flex schedule which is similar. No actual dates on the EcoBoost.

    I think Ford is trying very, very hard to pull these projects up and get them out the door sooner (the 2010 Fusion debut was supposed to be next Spring but got pulled up to December). They just have to make sure they don't cut corners and have quality issues.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,020
    It was so blatantly an F150 that it had little reason to live.

    The exterior changes were fine, but they didn't even bother to change the interior at all. In fact the King Ranch F150 was nicer than the Mark LT in some areas.

    Still, I think it was fine for what it was intended to be.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    And that's why it was so successful, right?

    In your opinion the exterior changes might have been "fine," but to most of the market, they weren't changes. They were very minor trim variations that could have easily been added to the F150, and no one would have seen it as anything other than an F150. The 09 Platinum edition F150 looks more different from the F150 than the Mark LT ever did.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,020
    It was "fine" in the context of giving the Lincoln dealers something to sell without spending a lot of money. This was all about throwing the Lincoln/Mercury dealers a bone. Having a platinum F150 trim level would have done nothing to help a Lincoln/Mercury dealer. They don't need it now with the MKZ, MKX and upcoming MKS.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Ok, I get what you are saying. Come to think of it, that's ALL they give Mercury now: thinly tarted up clones. Perhaps an F150 with Mercury plastered on the back would help them out. Then again, not so much!
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,056

    I've got to admire your loyalty. You must bleed Ford blue. I feel much the same about my AiResearch/Garrett products. However, they've been pretty/really good continuously since the '50's.

    Hang in there (as if. . .). I'm out, but it's clear that you're not and never will be.
  • Its going to be your grear grand pappies Lincoln by the time Lincoln produces a car that matches its high price competitors! Don't believe the corporate spin that Ford puts out. All new Lincolns will be based as they are now . That is, Fords with Lincoln bodies and interiors. Ford is too cheap to do otherwise. I am waiting to hear from the cool-aide drinkers.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    a Town Car if they threw in a Northstar competitor engine, like the 4.6 L in the Mustang or Marauder, and it got 25-28 highway mpg as some Town cars seem to do now...
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Not exactly a new idea. Weren't Mercury trucks available in Canada many years ago?
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,056
    "Weren't Mercury trucks available in Canada many years ago?"


    As were Fargo (Dodge) pickups.
  • dds010dds010 Posts: 33
    I was just looking a motor trend and it seems ford STILL hasnt decided who will lead the production of the global rear wheel platform and now is having a problem with even deciding on building a global rear wheel platform so that should push any credible Lincoln offering al least 6 years off with the way ford does things if the even decide to build it
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,020
    Motor Trend? Most of their reports are sheer speculation. According to insiders they've already been working on the GRWD for several months.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    As noted in the MKS forum, I examined an MKS at the Minneapolis auto show last week. I was only able to spend about 5 minutes inside the car since it was on a turn-table and they stopped it for me but I was able to gather some initial first impressions.

    Based on my observations, I get the sense that Lincoln thinks "luxury" means lots of technological gadgets hung on to an ordinary mainstream sedan. Clearly, they have done a nice job of differentiating the exterior of the MKS from the Taurus. The interior, however, was a disappointment. That, combined with the pedestrian powertrain, makes me think Lincoln's idea of "luxury" and mine are a long way apart.

    Shouldn't a luxury, or near luxury sedan have an interior that is more striking than a mainstream sedan? I would expect soft touch material on the dash and door panels, lined console, glovebox, and door storage areas, either wood, piano black, or metallic finish on the center stack, seats that allow the bottom cushion to be extended separately from the seat back to allow more thigh support, and a host of other upgrades. I need to spend a bit more time inside an MKS before I accept or reject it but, overall, I was not too impressed with Lincoln's idea of a luxurious interior.

    I have no problem with a luxury or near luxury car being built on a mainstream platform. I still the the D3 is a good basis for the MKS. However, they need to do more than just add technology. Are my expectations too high?
  • cowbellcowbell Posts: 125
    It certainly does sound disappointing from what you describe. I guess I hope that the pre-production version is using temporary parts, that the higher quality interior pieces just haven't been produced yet.

    I read you post over at the MKS forum, and I got a kick out if. Mainly because you describe getting in the car on the turntable early in the show. When I was at the Washington show, the rotating MKS platform was at a steep angle, so I was imagining someone trying to brace themselves in a car on a 30 degree tilt. I'm guessing the MN show did not have a tilted platform. :)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,020
    I thought it was more than just black plastic and I still think there may be a wood option, but if it is just like the old LS center stack with that awful flat black plastic then I agree it's a disappointment. Some nice real wood would look great.

    Overall I think it's still a step up from previous models. I'd like to see the production models in person, too.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    Haha - Yep, the platform was flat. I think I was the only one they let sit in the car, though. I was first in the door at the show and raced directly to the Lincoln display before anyone else was around. The attendant was a very nice and attractive young lady.

    I am hoping that this was an early example and maybe it was not up to production standards. It was pretty clear that they didn't intend for people to get inside of it. The interior color (attendant said it was cashmere) was not the best representative of the interior, either. The upper dash was black and the wood trim was dark ebony. The wood didn't really stand out. The seats seemed snow white in comparison to the rest of the interior. Lastly, the tuxedo black exterior looked like slate gray to me. Maybe the lighting at the show didn't show it off very well.

    My first impression was not great but I will give it another chance when I can examine a production model.
  • The interior wood is made similiar to the way that particle board is made. It's wood that is not of any type i.e.Maple, Walnut etc; but is made of many types. It is designed to be produced as cheaply as possible. Typically FoMoCo .The chassis is basically Ford Taurus. Why not buy a Taurus and save about $12,000?One can take that extra $12000 and buy something that is a better vehicle. Say a mid price Audi or Lexus etc.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,703
    "My first impression was not great but I will give it another chance when I can examine a production model. "

    Were you referring to the vehicle or "a very nice and attractive young lady?"

    Just wandering...I mean, wondering...:):):):):)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,020
    Why buy an Audi when you can buy a VW for less? Same platform. Why buy a Lexus when you can buy a Toyota? Same platform.

    This is a tired argument in general, but especially for the MKS. It doesn't share any sheet metal and almost no interior pieces with the Taurus and it has a bigger (albeit slightly for now) engine. It also has features that the Taurus does not such as cooled seats, manumatic shifter, THX stereo, adaptive HID lights, adaptive cruise control and keyless go. Even the suspension components are tuned differently. So that leaves the floor pan, radiator and transmission that might be the same.

    Even Gregg will back me up on this one.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 815
    My first impression of the attractive young lady was far superior to my first impression of the MKS interior. I would happily give her a closer examination, too, but alas, the MKS is likely more attainable. ;)

    I don't mean to be too harsh in my comments about the MKS. However, first impressions mean a lot and my first impressions of the interior were not positive. While the center stack/console of the Taurus and Sable are covered in fake wood, it is very nicely done with good fit and finish. Also, with the Taurus, the largest part of the door panels are soft to the touch and have wood trim that matches the dash and center stack. The MKS, by contrast, had no wood on the door panels or around the window switches and they were mostly hard molded plastic. The center stack was black plastic that sort of creaked when I pressed on it. I am sure that not a lot of care was taken in assembly of this pre-production MKS.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,437
    Even Gregg will back me up on this one.

    Yup. Sure will. Hey, even the Chrysler 300 borrowed from the Mercedes E Class.
  • Are you putting Ford in the same class as VW or Toyota? As far as the MKS gadgets ,Iin a few years these will be available in Ford's economy cars
  • I am glade that you wrote that the 300 has a Mercede's plateform. I guess that the Taurus plateform that the MKS will be based on is better then the 300's. Keep drinking that Ford kool-aide.
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