Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
This is exactly what Toyota does...they walk you in from your first car as a college kid, your $12,000 Scion, up to your first young family sedan, your Camry, and as you prosper up through your Lexus 300 series to your ultimate Benz/Cadillac/BMW equivalent, your Lexus 460. Toyota is also clever enough to badge their cars as Lexus at the certain price point where "entry-level luxury" starts.
Besides, Cadillac is already at the other luxury makes "entry-level" price point. It's already "cheap". What it isn't, is sporty or youthful in its products (yet).
Cheapest BMW -- $32,400 MSRP
Cheapest Lexus 33,470
Cheapest Cadillac $29,825
Cheapest Benz -- $29,650
So the idea would be to convince a young buyer that a Cadillac can be exciting to drive, and then work them up the ladder as they prosper.
Or, a second strategy would be the Lexus approach, where you get outstanding reliability and luxury for a good price. By "outstanding", that means better than anyone else, not 3rd or 5th.
I think Lexus has won the Longterm Dependability Award for what....12 years in a row, something like that?
President Nixon has long been worried that the U.S. is losing out in world markets because domestic labor costs are inflating so fast and kicking prices up so high. With that in mind, he stretched his usual hands-off approach to private pricing matters just a bit last week and called into the White House leaders of the two sides in the current steel-labor negotiations. He gave them both an innocuous pep talk, urging them to make a settlement that would allow the steel industry to remain at least somewhat competitive in the world. Budget Chief George Shultz assured newsmen that the President "wasn't trying to tell them what to settle for." The Administration is resigned to a steel deal that will push up labor costs by at least 10% a year—and give workers in other industries another inflationary target to aim for.
Several key indicators show just how badly these inflationary settlements are hurting the U.S. Items: > Steel imports in May hit1,800,000 tons—an amount equal to 16% of the nation's overall steel market. The total was the second highest in history, topped only in August 1968, when customers were also hedging against a strike. > Sales of imported cars in June surged to a historic high of 149,000, capturing 16.1% of the U.S. market, or well over one-quarter more than a year ago. In the year's first six months, sales of Volkswagens dipped slightly to 289,000, but that decline was more than made up by the incredible rise of Japanese cars. Toyotas rode up 57%, to 140,000 cars sold, and Datsuns jumped 136%, to 99,000. Japanese cars are selling fast because of high quality and low price, and their manufacturers benefit notably from the relatively moderate cost of Japanese steel (automaking steel sells for an average of $156 a ton in Japan v. $200 a ton in the U.S.).
What U.S. Producers are up against
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Maybe GM should install sludge at the factory? It might help sales, if it works for Toyota
I have not figured out your angle yet. I am just here to keep you GM Bashers at bay until Rocky gets back online
I cannot imagine myself plunking down my cash on a Lexus or Cadillac sedan. I just like the local Caddy dealer as much as I despise the Lexus dealer. That and Escalade is much roomier, tows more, hauls more, gets better mileage and is a LOT faster than the LX470. Oh, and not as overpriced. The Escalade could be considered the "Standard of Excellence" in SUVs.
Just stop the nonsense please....
Got to the CTS CTS-V forum and do a search on the word "Problem"
CTS CTS-V forum
10 pages worth of CTS/CTS-V posts with the word problem. I'd post the search link directly, but the software here won't do it.
In my trade we have a saying "Accusation of the accuser does not prove the innocence of the accused".
To paraphrase it in car terms, "Saying that Toyotas aren't so great doesn't make GM cars any better".
Tell us what you think that GM can do to increase sales and stop whining about Toyota. Chanting "Toyota ain't so great -they're just as bad as GM" isn't going to sell any cars.
Encouraging a company to excellence isn't "bashing", or if it is, then god bless America. :P
Business Week March 7 2007 Cadillac Warranties
And regarding your statement on your personal experience on Lexus warranty:
The engine and transmission are rock solid. It was struts, brakes, leaky valve covers, gas gauge module, airbag sensor, water pump, rear view mirror etc etcYes $1200 to replace a defective rear view mirror. $1200 to replace a gas gauge sending module. I think I will scan them all in and post on my Carspace. For those that think that Lexus is perfection. Just turned 88k miles. I believe she had under 10k miles when the 3 year warranty ran out.
Are you sure you bought it from LEXUS? Because the warranty information doesn't seem to match up with your story somehow....
LEXUS SPECIFIC
Bumper to Bumper Warranty
The coverage lasts for 48 months or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. Wheel alignment and balancing, however, are covered for 12 months or 20,000 miles, whichever comes first.
This warranty covers repairs and adjustments needed to correct defects in materials or workmanship of any part supplied by Lexus
Powertrain Warranty
The Lexus Powertrain Warranty lasts 72 months or 70,000 miles, whichever comes first. Except for the situations listed on the Basic Warranty page, this warranty covers repairs needed to fix defects in materials or workmanship of any component listed below:
Engine
Cylinder block and head and all internal parts, timing belt and cover, flywheel, oil pan, water pump, fuel pump, engine mounts, engine control computer, seals and gaskets.
Transmission and Transaxle
Case and all internal parts, torque converter, clutch cover, mounts, engine control computer, seals and gaskets.
Front-Wheel-Drive System
Driveshafts, axle, hub, bearings, seals and gaskets.
Rear-Wheel-Drive System
Differential carrier assembly, driveshaft, axle carrier, axle case, axle bearing, axle shaft, seals and gaskets.
Um I think that the QX56 or Armada should be the Standard of Excellence in Luxurious SUVs.
I like the Escalade and all but 60k to leave to 65lb seats at home is ridiculous. Why not just buy the QX-56 or Navigator which both have Power folding 3rd row seats and similar Blingage (Navigator) or features (QX56 has standard Nav w/ backup camera).
Please don't say the whole American thing because the Lincoln is a ford product and the QX56 is built in Canton, Mississippi and you cant get more southern than that(unless moving to Florida...) and no offense.
-Cj
PS
My wife thought they were honest and that was the price to keep her car in good shape.
If Cadillac dealers treat their customers like our Lexus dealer they deserve to go broke.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_1999_Sept/ai_57165169/pg_1
I actually kink of like the looks of the BLS. It's not the size that's the issue, it is the quality of the car. My Audi A4 was a great car. If Caddy could make a car that had the same interior quality and handling as the Audi it would do wonders for their image.
But you're probably right, I suspect that the current BLS is not up to that level. Too bad.
Why in the world would anybody buy a Toyota or Lexus for good handling?
As far as handling goes. My wife owned all German cars up to that time. She wanted to try the new Lexus. It was advertised as being better. Lexus was responsive to her wishes and changed much of the suspension as I am seeing in the file she has kept. The car handles nicely. Though not in a class with the 2005 Passat I had.
Because this thread has become a comparison of Cadillac to the other luxury brands I felt it was necessary to keep things in perspective. All car makers have faltered from time to time. Even the mighty Mercedes is fighting to regain the respect it once had.
From reading many posts on Edmund's I get the impression that most folks think that a car is good if it lasts 5 years and 100k miles. To me a good car is one that lasts 20 years and 100k miles without spending a fortune to maintain it.
I assume your "89" Cadillac is in good condition. How much have you spent over the years keeping it that way?
I think that it will take another 10 years to complete the recovery and and even then it's not a sure thing.
One thing I've thought about for Cadillac is the Chrysler 300 stratagem - when I saw the 300, the first thing I thought was "That big, powerful AMERICAN car should have been a Cadillac!"
Take the CTS and widen it, lengthen it, and lower it and what would you have?
A REAL Cadillac
I think that the 300 has shown that Americans want big powerful cars. Give the people what they want!
A lowered STS.
This is America, Man!
Think BIG!
Think CADILLAC!
Auto industry is a-changin' and people's tastes are a-changin' as well. As the baby boomers starting to retire and replace the "greatest generation" in the auto market the big ole' all-American boulevard cruisers aren't going to get many sales. Especially since the boomers are heavily influenced by the more nimble, tightly-built, FE imports.
Let's face it, the good ole' glory days of big American cars are over and GM knows it. That's why all the new GM entries (including Caddy's) are more and more like the imports. As matter of fact, the hottest new GM in recent months, the G8, is borrowed directly from Holden Australia.
There is nothing wrong to remember the good ole' times but getting blinded by the past success and the inability to catch up to the competitors will ultimately kill the American auto industry as we know it. I am glad to see Caddy heading the right direction to solidify its place as THE American luxury brand. IMO it is one model away (an entry level luxury performance sedan) to be competitive with the big boys.
Why not leave that for Pontiac? GM has the brands to fill out that Toyota lacks. I think Cadillac should consider dropping a couple models that do not sell or make money and concentrate on ONE great luxury car with variations such as couple and convertible, plus one luxury SUV. I do not see the advantage to each brand having 10 models that are the same as the other GM brands. Let Buick handle the mid sized entry luxury cars and CUVs.
Without an entry level entry it is hard for Caddy to lure in "younger" buyers and develop them into long time loyal customers. The current Caddy offerings have nothing to excite the 20 and 30-year-olds. Once they got comfortable behind the steering wheel of a 3er, C, IS, GS or TL then it'll be awfully hard for Caddy to win them back.
Will R&R and Bentley's images be cheapened if they start to make a 5-series fighter? You betcha. However, Cadillac will be perfectly fine with an entry model 3er-fighter.
I might agree if GM were to get rid of a couple brands. I just think there is too much replication in the GM household. You end up with poor offerings like the AZtek and Cimarron. I don't see a need for Chevy to be building trucks along with GMC.
Those are not the crowd I am talking about. If you don't know what I meant by that then I guess our generation gap is too huge for this discussion to continue.
I am talking about regular young professionals (which there are a lot of them out there) whom just started their careers and want to treat themselves with a nice (not over the top like the Escalade with the 22) entry level luxury car.
Myself I do not understand how you can like a sedan after having a good SUV.
Because SUV handles like a POS.
A corporation can bleed just so much before it has to downsize even further.
Chev/Cadillac/Buick may have to hold the fort for GM in the near future in the US market....I could even see Buick biting the dust. Chevy and Cadillac could just spread their model ranges up and down, or Chevy Buick and Cadillac could become 3 series, 5 series, 7 series, or A4, A6 and A8, or C class, E class and S class.
Too many products, too few buyers.
"...the big ole' all-American boulevard cruisers aren't going to get many sales. That's why all the new GM entries (including Caddy's) are more and more like the imports"
I respectfully disagree. Cadillac's problem is the Harley Davidson problem - Cadillac can't "out-BMW" BMW, out-Mercedes Mercedes, or out-Lexus Lexus, just as Harley couldn't compete with the superior Japanese bikes.
Cadillac has to create its own market, just as Harley did.
Big cigar-smoking boys in rich kid's toys. There's a huge market (Luxury car huge) for big vehicles. Most people driving SUVs are driving them because they're the only thing left with American size interiors left.
The Chrysler 300 sales show that there's a market for big cars.
I think there's a market for a 'real' Cadillac. Continuing to say "we're just as good as BMW" only leads to unfavorable comparisons.
So, take what's unique to Caddy and use it. Nothing succeeds like excess. That's why Hummers sell.
SO:
American-butt seating for six. 500 HP V-8 cruisers with burbling exhausts. Enough leather to build a three-room tent. Interior switches that you couldn't break with a hammer Deep Chrome plating that you could swim in. 8 coats of paint.
No more half-axed European FWD cars even if the bodies are flown in from Italy.
And charge for it.
You may not like the color, but you can sure see the quality in THIS interior:
Finally this quote:
"...hard for Caddy to lure in "younger" buyers and develop them into long time loyal customers"
I believe that this is the wrong approach for Cadillac. A Caddy should be a car to aspire to - a car that not just anyone can afford. BMW has to do that because they have to support the whole company. GM has other car lines to do that. If you think about it, what you are proposing is the equivalent of Toyota folding Lexus back into Toyota by making them a full line company. I think everyone here (even those who like to drive them) think the IS300 was a mistake for the Lexus line. It should be the top end Scion.
Caddy is a mainstream luxury car manufacture not a niche brand like Harley Davidson whom is into building expensive toys for grown-ups.
If it's only me and another passenger going on the cross country trip then I'll take my IS. If I am taking more people then I'll go to Enterprise and rent a Expedition or Escalade. I am not going to sacrifice my daily driving enjoyment for the rarely cross-country trip.
The IS is totally comfortable for 2 people going on a long road trip.
Lexus has not broken the Yuppie bond with BMW with that car.
That's not the case for me, I was on the 3er/TL/IS fence before decided on the IS.
Harley could not, and still cannot, build a motorcycle as good as the Japanese; nor will Cadillac ever build a BMW or a Lexus. That's not the point. The point is to build a product that sells and appeals to as many people as possible, however you wish to define "appeal". The Harley did not have to become a Kawasaki or a Yamaha, and Cadillac doesn't have to become a Lexus. It can be its own version of "success".
Of course, like Harley, Cadillac does have to meet certain expectations. Harleys have tried to modernize their products and done a pretty good job; they've honed their marketing skills to perfection; their styling is very appropriate for the home market and their products have excellent resale value.
Maybe I wasn't being clear, in being competitive with others I do not mean Caddy should mimic what others are doing. But it does need to offer its own entry in order to get a chunk of that market and establish its name to the rather undiscovered demographic (for Cadillac that is).
I barely spent anything on my 1989 Cadillac Brougham aside from the usual fluid changes, belts, brake pads, filters, etc.; certainly nowhere even remotely near $18K!!!
I think Corvette is a good example of "doing your own thing" and yet matching the imports without copying them. True Corvette is a small niche but it maintains a very high level of value and performance while maintaining a distinctly American identity. It would be great if Cadillac could pull something like this off---not a sports car, but a product line with this level of distinctiveness and, generally speaking, respect for its strong points and no great complaints about its shortcomings.
This is exactly the sort of old-school crumudgeon-esque thinking that company board rooms are full of.
The reality is today, there's almost zero brand loyalty among the younger buyers. They buy their first cars as cheap things to get around in and when they get money, they jump ship for what they wanted all along, regardless of brand.
Cadillac has nothing to gain here, because the idea of "give them a cheap piece of junk and let them aspire to trade up" is as dead as using carbs and velour seats. A cheap entry-level car also lowers the image. One previous post here went on and on about giving them bling and chrome and big V8s and... and it's exactly the right thing to do.
Harley tried this a few years ago with their Sportster. And it was a total non-seller compared to their major lines. It didn't help their bottom line one bit, though I suppose they will still offer it for a few more years until they realize that they should just build better big bikes instead of trying to get back into the small cruiser market.
GM's current leadership figured this out finally. So, don't expect a tiny Cadillac to ever be sold in the U.S.
Okay...
I don't presume to know your motives for using whom so I will not speculate, merely ask you politely to refrain.
I was suppose to have a "motive" for using "whom"? Wow, that's a first...
Funny how "grammer" isn't in my spell checker. :P
BMW has its 3er starting at mid $30K and topping off at $50K
MB has its C-class starting at high $30K and topping off at almost $60K :surprise:
Lexus has its IS starting at low $30K and topping off at over $45K
Infiniti has its G starting at low $30K and topping off at around $43K
If they are considered as cheap piece of junk then what should we call the entries from Chevy, Honda and Toyota?
Again, Cadillac isn't more prestigious than any of the brands mentioned above so by having an entry level model isn't going to cheapen the image a bit.
Also, wouldn't a satisfied Cadillac owner be looking at another Cadillac first when it's time for him/her to move up?
Are you kidding me. The CTS was designed as a young persons car. The others including the SUV's, SRX cross-over could be considered youth oriented if they have the money. The foreign offerings you listed above are all over $30,000 so the CTS would fall within those.
A good, well executed, well built, and competitively priced entry level luxury/sport model is an excellent way to attract younger (less than filthy rich) buyers.
One thing Louiswei forgot to mention is Audi doing pretty well as a small time player in this market, and carving a slice of the market for loyal buyers and owners. People that buy Audi's are usually very satisfied with their purchase. The A3 and A4 do what they do very well. Now, if the A3 didn't seem like higher end Audi's in the way it drove and felt inside, then it would cheapen the image. However, because Audi didn't try to cheapen the car too much to make tons of money, they hit the nail on the head; and really have no competition in the upper 20K to 30K market, and even less so if you go to 5 doors.
When Mercedes or BMW bring their 1 series or A class, they better do it right or it won't work. However, Caddy making a smaller entry level luxury vehicle would be sort of like Honda deciding to make a Hummer competitor.
However, Caddy making a smaller entry level luxury vehicle would be sort of like Honda deciding to make a Hummer competitor.