Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

19798100102103201

Comments

  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    I don't really understand your argument because to me snob appeal is a Maserati, Rolls Royce or Ferrari. And keep in mind those cars don't exactly have stellar reliability records either. Cadillac has never factored or been on the radar in the snob appeal department as far as I'm concerned.

    Reliability aside, too many of the cars that GM produces look sloppily put together. That's insulting to customers.

    I realize Mercedes is starting to have problems, but to me, they're not really the ones to worry about here in terms o competitiveness. The real ones to worry about are Toyota and Honda.

    And honestly, who cares about snob appeal? Do people really buy cars that way?

    Since GM doesn't want to build cars that look like bank vaults inside and out, they'll never compete with Mercedes. I don't like Mercedes. And Mercedes are no where near what they used to be in terms of quality. Most of the people I know that have money would rather have a BMW as opposed to a Mercedes. My dad is one of those people. He had one Mercedes, and the rest have been BMW's
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,908
    Cadillac has never factored or been on the radar in the snob appeal department as far as I'm concerned.

    I guess you are too young to remember. They were at one time. I would say at this point in time they are equal to the Lexus and behind Mercedes. I will give Lexus the leg up with the new LS460 It is a vast improvement over the LS430. First real improvement since they built the LS400. Car companies have a history of living on their laurels Cadillac and Lexus are no exception.
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    Gagrice-

    That was 60 years ago :\ Cmon. What worked then doesn't work now.

    By the way, Mercedes is behind Lexus. And Cadillac in no shape or form is equal to a Lexus LS460. Not even close...
    ______________________
    reference text:::::
    I guess you are too young to remember. They were at one time
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,908
    You said never. 50 years ago Cadillac WAS the standard. What would Elvis drive if not a Caddy.

    I also gave the LS460 a leg up. Nice car still not a Mercedes. Mercedes covers a lot of different luxury models that Lexus is not even close to. But that is a different thread, eh? Lexus is a one car company. The rest are just rebadged Toyotas.

    PS
    If Lexus is so great why did they take so long to try and compete in their own country against MB & BMW?
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    Gagrice-

    Doesn't demographics have something to do with this? Come to where I live (Southern California) and see how many Cadillacs are floating around. You won't find many.

    As for your PS question,I can't speak for Japan, I wasn't raised in Japan and have never lived in Japan.

    And if that's your logic. Hmmmm GM can't seem to do well in their own country either, can they?? But they do wonderful in Australia and China.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,908
    I live a couple hours south of you. I have never said that Cadillac cars are big sellers here. You see a lot more Escalades than you do LX470s. I have no numbers. I would say that SUVs and PU trucks out number cars where I live. As far as Cadillac, there are 6 Cadillac dealers in the county and only 2 Lexus dealers. One of them is the reason I would never buy another new Lexus here. The Cadillac dealers must be going broke if they are not selling in So Ca. You need to research a little more. You probably did not notice the Cadillacs as they are not a garish as the cheapo IS, GS and RX Lexus models. Those to me are junk vehicles, that have cheapened the Lexus nameplate.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    (Sorry, but I just had to correct the thread title. In this context, the correct spelling is "its" -- not "it's".)

    I'm really not pushing an argument -- just making an observation & raising a question.

    The observation is simply this: there was a time when the rich & near-rich bought Cadillacs. Cadillac owned that end of the market until the late 1970s or early 80s. (If you reached driving age much after 1980, you won't remember these times.) Then, Cadillac lost it. Upper-echelon buyers discovered German (& later on, Japanese) brands & never returned to the fold.

    And here's the question: can Cadillac get the current generation of luxury car buyers to pay attention to the new CTS?
  • jkr2106jkr2106 Posts: 231
    Yes.

    They got me. I may only be 18, but someday I'll need a new car, and frankly I am too young to remember a truely horrible Cadillac. Sure GM has screwed up the generations born in the 60s to 80s, but I think with time things will get better.

    My parents always bought Nissans because Chevys were not "cool" i guess. I remember in 04 when we got a Maxima (and in '05 the Altima), GM just didn't offer anything like that, now they do. But to be honest, I don't think my parents have a desire to buy domestic.

    So, I think wooing the older generations may be rather futile. GM needs to concentrate on not leaving younger people with a bad taste in their mouth after trying a GM.

    On a side note: I'm happy Toyo has finally passed the General, now they have the huge target on their back.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    So, I think wooing the older generations may be rather futile. GM needs to concentrate on not leaving younger people with a bad taste in their mouth after trying a GM.

    Interesting! Makes sense, too. In the early 70s, Toyota grabbed the baby boomers, who were just reaching car-buying age at that time, & never let go.

    I wonder if anyone from Cadillac's marketing staff is reading this.
  • I don't think I'm the older generation, but I came of driving age in the late '70s, so maybe I am. However, Cadillac hasn't lost me, and it is (it's) on my radar for my next purchase. I like my Lincoln LS, but right now Lincoln doesn't have anything that interests me. So, Cadillac, Acura, and perhaps BMW are near the top of my list, in that order.
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    Jimbres-

    One of the younger posters on here couldn't have said a more profound and eloquent statement--->"GM needs to concentrate on not leaving younger people with a bad taste in their mouth after trying a GM." Hello??????? GM? anybody home??? You listening??? :\

    And to answer your question, no Cadillac is not going to get people to pay attention to its CTS. Why? Because just like all of GM's cars they spend too much time on erratic and silly marketing and insulting marketing,(e.g. "C.E.O but not quite" CTS commercial, "The Power of &") What the hell does "The Power of &" mean??? :\, They produce too many gleaming flops. Most recent example of this is the Catera. Others have been the v864 technology and Toyota sized eldorados and sevilles, the Cadillac Allante. They produce a half way decent car like the CTS, and then do dumb things like put shoulder height seat mounted seat belts in it. What that hell is that about?? Then they stick Chevrolet Vega interior in it: :\ . I mean what is wrong with these people at GM?

    Another reason is people know that Cadillac is GM. GM has produced too many flops and produced too many unreliable cars for people to trust them--and GM apparently doesn't care. On top of this they want top dollar :\ for their stuff.

    They wasted all their time in the last 15 years marketing nothing but gas guzzling vehicles. And now look, we have another "energy crisis". Uhhh didn't we already go through this in 1975/76. Those are the years when the sales of Toyota fuel efficient vehicles in this country first went through the roof. Toyota has been building top selling fuel efficient vehicles for decades. And now Toyota has a luxury line to go along with that niche. What has GM got? SUVs? That's one market. Toyota has several.

    GM is like Michael Jackson. There is too much strangeness associated with them now, and a stigma of them not being able to produce what the USA wants even when faced with all the hints society could possibly throw at them.

    When Toyota or Honda has problems with their cars, they fix the problem pretty quickly. Does GM do this? I don't think so :( People remmeber these kind of things.

    We spend far too much on cars these days to have a car in the shop all the time and to not have decent resale value. Even if bad quality no longer defines GM cars, that's what the majority of the public still thinks about them. :\. With all this stuff hanging over their head, there is no way they're going to be "standard of the world" in my lifetime or yours, unless they change their ways.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    gagrice, imidazol97, 1487, can you take this one for me ? I don't think I have it in me today to muster a response to all this propoganda. :sick:

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,098
    >can you take this one for me ?

    It's the same old stuff falling out the closet door. I just wait for the housekeeper to come along and push it back in and close the door. Same old, same old.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,155
    I came of driving age in the early 1980s - perhaps Cadillac's worst period and I STILL love the brand. I'd certainly avoid any Cadillac manufactured from 1981 thru 1986, but after they got rid of the awful 4.1 litre, I was confident in purchasing a new Caddy. I still have my 1989 Cadillac Brougham purchased new when I was only 24. The car is still in excellent condition. I followed up with a new 1994 Cadillac Deville and a 2002 Cadillac Seville STS. I'm looking forward to another Cadillac in the future.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,155
    They produce too many gleaming flops. Most recent example of this is the Catera.

    Wow, that was about ten years ago.

    When Toyota or Honda has problems with their cars, they fix the problem pretty quickly.

    Nah, they just sweep 'em under the rug and hope nobody notices. Sludge anyone?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,908
    When Toyota or Honda has problems with their cars, they fix the problem pretty quickly. Does GM do this? I don't think so People remmeber these kind of things.

    Yes I remember and that is why I buy GM instead of Toyota or Honda. Tell your lame story to all the folks with 2007 Camrys that sit in the shop with no resolution to problems. So far you have only come up with a story of a 22 year old GM that gave you problems. Who is living in the past? You will see him if you look in the mirror.

    I got a plane to catch cheers all.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Good response guys. Sorry I left you out lemko. :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I got a plane to catch cheers all.

    Where you going ? Have fun. :)

    Rocky
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    If Lexus is so great why did they take so long to try and compete in their own country against MB & BMW?

    The reason that the Lexus name wasn't used in Japan is that it wasn't necessary. Toyota was already successfully selling luxury cars as Toyotas. The flagship LS 400 was known as the Toyota Celsior in the Japanese domestic market. The IS 300 is based on the Japanese Domestic Market Toyota Altezza, and the GS models are based on the Toyota Aristo. The SC 300/400 is based on Japanese Domestic Market Toyota Soarer.

    Now that Lexus has become an international success, the name plate has become necessary as people in Japan decided they were missing a 'step-up' from their Toyotas even though the features (and styling) on their Toyotas were the same as the foreign label. Sort of the GM 1980's loaded Caprice-Classic vs. a Cadillac in reverse situation.
  • I just purchased a 2005 XLR and am absolutely delighted with it's performance. I was told at Carmax (where I purchased it) that there is a website where I can obtain the "original" invoice on my vehicle by just putting in the vin number. Does anyone know where this might be? Your response is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks
  • mediapushermediapusher Posts: 305
    You people can say what you want, but whose reputation is worse that whose? Is it Toyota or Honda that has a bad reputation or GM? Now answer that question with a straight face.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,508
    Information on this service ( for Caddys, Pontiacs, etc., as well as Corvettes ) is here:

    http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/infosearch/index.php?cmd=area
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    Toyota and Honda became popular in the mid-70's because they were fuel efficient - high EPA MPG ratings. I have owned about 15 different GM cars over the last 35 years and I have not had serious problems with any of them. Consumer Reports would have you believe that all domestic cars are below average, while all Japanese cars are above. However, my brother has a Honda CR-V (?), with a 4 cylinder engine that needed a major rebuild at about 70,000 miles. So, for me at least, Honda is far worse than GM.
  • lokkilokki Posts: 1,200
    To paraphrase Damon Runyon:

    Hondas and Toyotas aren't always more reliable than GM cars, but that's the way to bet.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    You people can say what you want, but whose reputation is worse that whose? Is it Toyota or Honda that has a bad reputation or GM? Now answer that question with a straight face.

    Yes, but times are changing. You are living in the past. Soon there will be something announced that will rock your world ;)

    I am wondering if you will be able to handle it :P
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    62,

    Man ol' mediapusher is a tough character and will lay it all out on the line to try to prove us wrong. ;)

    I'd love to road race mediapusher here in my neck of the roads. We could take Boys Ranch Road from Amarillo to Channing. His honyota's wouldn't have a chance ;)

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Rock, good news is coming and I am sure we will all read it here. ;) The landscape is changing and many are caught in the past. The data is already there for the quality issues but a closed mind will have a hard time seeing it. But most of the people in this country are willing to look at the data and see the changes that have been going on for a few years. And once that mind frame is changed GM will keep increasing sales.

    Remember that GM may be losing overall sales here but they are gaining retail sales. Not a lot but they have cut way back on incentives while Chrysler continues its going out of business sales which are really hurting GM and Ford. Yes Toyota is a juggernaut but they are taking sales from almost everyone, not just GM.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Remember that GM may be losing overall sales here but they are gaining retail sales.

    Which brands? Pontiac and Buick are continuing their slow slide to oblivion, and Cadillac is caught between a new CTS, an aging DTS, and an Escalade facing an increasingly hostile sales enviroment. Saturn might be picking up some sales, but its overall volume is so low that it's almost not worth the trouble.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Good question that I do not have the answer for. But GM still continues to drop fleet sales (where is that guy who kept saying he did not believe it?) and retail is holding steady / increasing slightly. Escalade sales were up significantly.

    Retail Sales Up 0.5 Percent - Mid-Cars Up 14.5 Percent; Full-Size Pickups up 12.2 Percent
    Saturn and GMC Post Substantial Gains Led By Aura Mid-Size Sedan and Crossovers Outlook and Acadia
    Chevrolet Impala and Aveo Post Quarterly Record Sales
    Daily Rental Sales Down 32 Percent; Non-Rental Fleet Sales Up 3 Percent
    March

    Sales Down 7.7 Percent vs. Year Ago
    GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook Fuel 235 Percent Retail Increase in Mid-Utility Crossover Sales
    Record March Escalade Sales Drive 17.6 Percent Retail Increase in Large Luxury Utilities
    Chevrolet Impala, Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura Contribute To Retail Sales Increase For Mid-Car Segment
    Daily Rental Sales Down 35 Percent
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    And that, of course, is a good thing. GM's fleet sales are sometihng that it needs to someday learn to survive without - and leave the fleets to Hyundai and the others.

    Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and so on have learned that rental fleets only serve to add what is essentially dead weight to the whole proces. Lean and mean is the way to go(always has been, actually).

    As for reliability, GM isn't as reliable as the others - not quite, but the repairs cost half as much. To say that Honda or Toyota are more reliable is therefore an exercise in false economy. It's like Mercedes. Their engines are great, but when they DO break, you better have a trust fund somewhere to pay the bill.

    Toyota and Honda are now apporaching what Volvo and Mercedes used to cost a decade ago. Premium prices or close to it for mainstream cars. The idea of a transmission costing $4000 to replace is apalling and it takes it right off of my list of cars to consider. (stickshift aside, of course - which I favor)

    A GM? The "ancient" 4 speed in the Buicks is just as reliable as the Toyota models(if not moreso, actually), and runs $1400-$1600 to get fixed. If they actually *rebuild* it, it's about $800 plus labor of a few hours.

    Some math:
    Car A: 1.5x reliability. 2x to repair.
    Car B: 1x reliability. 1x to repair.

    Net: Car A costs: 0.66x2=1.33x what car B does over its lifetime. And for Toyota and Honda, that's just the basic repairs. The transmission - it's a landmine in what is billed as an economical car.

    Btw - Hyundai is about 2/3 as reliable as Toyota and as cheap as GM to fix, so isn't any better in the end - except a Hyundai transmission is GM's price-wise to fix.

    So economically, Hyundai is now a better choice than Toyota(not to mention it's as inexpensive to buy as a GM - no 2-3K premium either).
Sign In or Register to comment.