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Comments
The AG idea is a good one too -- whatever works! Good luck. Now I have a Ranger I hate, but I'm so sick of Toyota that I doubt I'll ever buy one of their trucks again.
She has refused to provide me in writing with a warranty, a replacement part list, and an ETA.
I have also left calls with the NHTSA, State AG, and the FTC (fed)(877-382-4357)
Anybody know the contact info for the Boston Area Regional Manager for Toyota?
Thanks
-wsn
do you know the specific link ?
I also got a second case number and have been told not only will Toy Corp not provide me in writing with what is being replaced, but they will not provide me in writing the warranty going forward. I asked for it via email, fax, or ups. I have also been told there will be NO buy backs going fwd. I have been dealing with this with Toyota since 12/28. The dealer is being ok (sometimes good/sometimes bad) but Corp is being just as is described in all the other recent posts. Not helpful, secretive, and not returning phone calls when they say they will, etc.
There is indeed a broken link on the autosafety.org website, so I figured out the apparent only way to get to the place to file a complaint and get on a list. On the homepage click on "file a complaint". File your complaint and you'll see that the last question is "are you interested in a class action suit?" Say "yes". You can then go and view all other complaints if you wish.
Last summer when I was going through this the only way I learned about the Center for Auto Safety's involvement was through a newspaper article -- they don't seem to come up on Google. So I'm not surprised that more people haven't found them, but it is critical. They can be very instrumental in pushing action on things.
I'd love to hear that everyone has suddently filed a complaint on the Center's site!
he is not too helpful.. just tells you your screwed in 6 different ways..
I bet its the same guy.
I called and said, "why should I miss out on toyota new purchase deals because I am waiting for an offer on my buyback? shouldnt these incentives be extended to people involved in the tacoma problem?"
he said, "the buyback program has nothing to do with any deals going on new toyotas' so you would just need to wait for your offer and then look for new deals that come in."
He ( and other people I spoke with at toyota) also act like they have no affiliation with ISG which is very annoying and insulting, I mean, toyota hired ISG to handle the buybacks but when you ask questions about ISG they have no answers.
just parts..
the suspension would have to come out anyway and the motor and trans will come out and be separated so you should tell them u need it done and your only paying for the parts.
id go to the dealer and have the parts department give you part numbers and price and dont tell them your truck is there. that way you get a price from them and then you can compare to make sure they dont try to mark them up to pay for some labor.
Also, does anyone have any idea what the truck might be worth after the frame swap? I know it all depends on the truck itself, but has anyone heard of trucks that have had the frame replaced and what value they had compared to similar Tacoma's without frame issues?
I mean, I wonder if advertising the truck as having a brand new frame with a 15 year warranty might appeal to a prospective buyer. I am assuming this 15 year warranty would aplly for the life of the vehicle and not just me, the owner.
"Your e-mail was forwarded to me. I have heard of the volunteer buyback plan from Toyota. I do understand your vehicle is not covered under this plan. Because this is a volunteer program that Toyota is doing and not required we cannot mediate your complaint. I would encourage you to keep the line of communication open with Toyota’s customer service. It is your only course for addressing this issue. It the volunteer changes and you are then covered we could then try to mediate the situation. But as it stands now, we cannot do anything."
"It is your only course for addressing this issue"????
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
I'd be p****d.
I'm still a little fuzzy on the details, but because there is no OFFICIAL recall underway, I guess they can't mediate? I don't get it. I was doing my civil duty to inform the state that there are countless Tacoma owners driving around in potential killing machines oblivious to their dangerous predicament, and with assurances from Toyota that their trucks are fine. Has anyone received a letter or notification from Toyota that their 01-04 Tacomas might be in trouble and to have them checked out?
This is scary.
Take the time and write the appropriate agencies about this issue.
Southland California Better Business Bureau
Your state attorney general's office
Your state consumer protection board
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC)
Your state and federal assemblyman and congressman
Local news (tv and newspaper)
60 minutes and Dateline
Various internet complaint centers like the Autosafety.org
I have form letters, adresses, advice for documentaion, and I'm more than happy to help you. I had a 2001 Tacoma and was RIPPED off by Toyota. I'll do everything in my power to make sure that
1. Dangerous trucks are taken off the road.
2. Toyota pays a fair market value for those trucks
3. All customers affected get the same treatment. Currently, 2001 and newer truck owners are completely hung out to dry. No loaner, no full value, no dealership asistance.
I know a few people are talking about class action stuff, but that won't happen until an attorney feels the pressure is on enough to take this case head one. Toyota is a multi-billion dollar corporation, and without strength in numbers, I doubt much will happen. Keep making calls, kee writing letters, and keep the pressure on.
Toyota gave me $3,000 less than what I paid for my truck when I bought it last year. I recently heard toyota has formalized the 2001+ buyback program. If this is so - what are people getting? Rental? 150%? I got niether and I'm considering going for the rest in small claims court but not without vlaidation that Toyota has stepped up to the plate for some folks but not others.
is this regarding an 01 - 04 truck ?
toyota will not buy back trucks if they are 2001-2004 they are only going to replace the frame..
I just got my offer and it was lower than what I think was fair..
I argued with Keven ( toyota case manager) and he did not care about any point I made and said "toyota is not in the business of buying back trucks" and my buyback was a "Good will" buyback.
the long and short of it is,
toyota doesnt care about how this affects their customers, they are only concerned with how much this will cost them.
Mr. Service Mgr. metioned that during the "repair" it might be a good time to replace/fix parts that are easily accessible such as fuel/brake lines........ I want to know if any of you know what exactly is included in the frame repair.....a mechanic pal said that Toyota should be responsible for the lines, because they are gonna mess them up during surgery......See where I'm going w/ this ?
What are the parts that are included with the frame ( I'm a mechanical dummy). I want to go in there knowing exactly whats what.......I am hiring an honest mechanic to put the truck up on a lift and show me the whole deal. I dont want to pay for parts that Toyota is responsible for. Anybody got some info on this?
Also I'm scared, 'cause I'm one of the first frame jobs for this dealership- being the test monkey doesnt make me feel the love..........
I ended up working something out with the dealer. They gave me a fair trade in value for the truck. A number that reflects market value of what it would be worth if it did not have a hole in the rusty frame. They then let me use that trade value towards a heavily discounted 09 Tacoma. I wanted 1.5 KBB but Toyota Corp (vs dealer) are being unreasonable about this. I don't have the 3+ months I was quoted for a frame replacement and I don't trust it will be done right, we are talking major surgery. I took the trade deal. The problem goes away, I have a new 09 that was 'heavily' discounted on $$$, and the many months of waiting and Toyota Corp BS is no longer my problem. Also FWIW they did give me a rental for no cost for the 3/4 weeks that it took to work this all out. In the end 99% of this is Toyota Corp, and not the dealer (or mine anyhow) I had already bought 2 there, and the General Sales Manger made it happen. Very nice lady.
Glad it's all over, I will not miss dealing with Ms. Bishop from the Corp office in CA.
Good luck to everybody...
Cheers
-wsn
Before I worked out a deal with my dealer, Toyota Corp (Ms. Bishop) REFUSED to provide me with the list of parts in writing/email/fax.
FWIW:
Toyota's Legal Dept Address is:
Toyota Motor Sales USA
National Customer Relations
19001 Southwestern Ave.
Dept HQ11 Torrance, CA 90509
Attention: 2001-2004 Customer Support Program (Tacoma)
Good luck folks...
Cheers
-wsn
I now live in New England and the dealer told me to bring it back in one year for another inspection.
I plan to get the frame undercoated as soon as I can afford it. I would rather drive my Taco until it falls apart than part with it.
I have a 2001 and was lucky to fall into a buy out.
My case manger (Kevin) basically is the middle man between us and corporate.
He made sure he kept saying that they are buying mine back as "good will" as the 2001 - 2004's are all getting a frame replacement. I argued that frame replacements
are NOT the answer and that toyota is going to really damage their customer reputation. HE said " we are not in the business of buying trucks back"
I dont have enough room here to begin to tell you what I said.
Imagine that, they are not in the business to buy trucks.. I said, "consumers are not in business to buy trucks that only last 5 to 6 years.
thanks
the case manager I had (kevin) claims there were no frames avail for the 95 - 00 tacomas which is why there was a buy back.
the bottom line is, even though they are pretending to care, they dont. they are only concerned about their total cost on all of this.
Here are a few things that will need to be replaced because of removing the existing frame:
Engine mounts
Cad mounts
Upper and Lower suspension along w/ control arm......this will lead to a need for re-alignment
Brake lines and brackets
Fuel line and brackets
Spare tire mount
Evap unit
All this and probably more- he guesstimated the cost at $2000 ! Plus I already have an existing whole in my gas tank (from rust.what a surprise) I go into my dealer next week to turn in my truck (my inspection expires 1/31/09) . I am going to try and negotiate w/ the dealer on these repairs.......we'll see what happens. I am not very good at playing the heavy- but I will not pay for repairs that I am not responsible for.
BTW, my mechanic chrged me $16 for the look over.......i should just take the parts and let him do the work.......
There is no technical procedure released at this point for the frame replacement, and no info as to what is included with the repair kit. They obviously know what the major components are that will need replacement along with the frame. My suggestion is to seek a dealership with a Body Shop if at all posssible, they will be more familiar with the type of repair and procedures involved.
Gentlemen,
I am the unfortunate owner of a 2003 Toyota Tacoma. By now I'm sure you've heard all about the frame corrosion problems with the 1995 - 2004 Toyota Tacoma pick-ups. I believe that this is a much bigger problem than what Toyota is telling you folks at the NHTSA. The magnitude of this problem and the logistics of Toyota's proposed fix leaves the NHTSA no choice but to force Toyota to initiate a mandatory buyback of these dangerous vehicles. The conditions of the buyback should follow the precedence set by Toyota on Toyota's voluntary buyback program for the '95-01 Tacomas - 1.5 times the Kelly Blue Book retail value. Tacoma owners, such as myself, must be fairly compensated for unknowingly driving an unsafe vehicle and for the inconvenience of for being prematurely forced to look for a replacement vehicle. All this frame trouble is artificially depressing the Kelly Blue Book values, hence the 1.5 times Kelly Blue Book basically makes Tacoma owners whole. I had plans to keep this Tacoma for many more years. Now all I can wonder is when this defective frame will prematurely take my truck off the road and how much Toyota's gross negligence is invariably going to cost me. This isn't the legendary Toyota reliability that I bought into.
Toyota's approach to addressing this frame issue is flawed because of the sheer number of vehicles involved. Basically Toyota won't be able to get the faulty frames repaired quickly enough, which will leave literally thousands of dangerous Tacomas still out on the roads, as their owners just can't park those vehicles and wait around for Toyota to replace the frame. Just think about the logistics of all this. Toyota is allotting 60 hours of technician time to swap out a typical frame. If you divide the number of Tacomas needing frame replacements by the number of northern states technicians available to actually perform the work, resolving this frame problem is literally going to take years. Not all the dealership's technicians will be doing frame replacements. Other vehicles will have to be serviced. If you happen to own one of the afflicted Tacomas, you don't have years to wait for a fix. The prudent thing is to force Toyota to accept the overwhelming futility of the situation and initiate a buyback immediately. If as a Tacoma owner, you want to wait around for your turn to get your frame replaced, then that's your call. Most of us can't wait. Our vehicles are rapidly becoming unsafe. We simply don't have years to wait.
Synopsis of problem: The frame of the Tacoma was fabricated with insufficient corrosion protection, particularly inside the boxed section of frame under the midsection of the truck. The frame is literally rusting from the inside out. What happens is, as the frame rusts on the inside of the boxed section, the rust flakes drop onto the bottom of the boxed section. These rust flakes then plug the weep holes in the frame so that moisture is not allowed to drain out the interior of the boxed section, thereby exacerbating the potential for corrosion. So what is happening is the bottom of the boxed section of frame is rusting out due to the build-up of moisture and the accumulation of rust flakes plugging off the weep holes. The rust flakes are 1/8" deep on the bottom of my boxed section of frame. Basically the bottom 20% of Tacoma frames are rusting out.
To a lesser degree, the top exterior of the boxed section of frame is also rusting, as the floor of the truck cab is only 1" above the frame, which makes cleaning the top of the frame in that area difficult with a water spray.. Because of the tight frame/cab tolerance, this area doesn't get cleaned by most owners, as they never realized it was such a problem until it's too late.
What is particularly dangerous about the bottom of the boxed section of frame becoming compromised by corrosion, is the bottom of the boxed section is where the bracket for the rear leaf spring is attached. As the boxed section corrodes, there is less and less material supporting this major suspension bracket. The design of this bracket must be analyzed by your NHTSA independent engineer. I strongly believe that it doesn't take much frame corrosion to severely compromise the integrity of this welded leaf spring bracket. If this bracket fails, then the front of the leaf spring comes free, the rear axle comes out of alignment, which could cause the operator to lose control. This is a major safety issue!
This compromised leaf spring bracket is why the NHTSA needs to force a mandatory buyback of this vehicle. In the northern road salt using states, the Toyota Tacoma MUST be taken off the road! Rampant frame corrosion is making the Tacoma unsafe.
Toyota has an action plan to coat the inside and outsides of the good frames with an industrial coating. They are not removing the accumulated salt saturated rust flakes lying on the bottom of the boxed section of frame. They are just spraying a coating over them. The loose rust flakes have to be removed for the coating to properly adhere to the inside of the frame. Toyota's proposed fix for the so called "good" frames is flawed and will give owners a false sense of security.
The NHTSA needs to demand that Toyota turn over all Tacoma frame design and suspension calculations to an independent engineer hired by the NHTSA. The independent engineer must analyze what effect various levels of corrosion have on the safety factor of the frame and suspension brackets. It is my strong belief that the frame is already designed to the margin for weight savings, so that it doesn't take much corrosion to erase all safety factor and place the frame and suspension components in grave danger of failing.
I also can't help but wonder that since the frame is an integral part of the vehicle's safety system, what does a severely corroded and weakened frame do to the level of crash protection offered by the vehicle? If NHSTA's independent engineer finds that the frame does play a major role in the crash protection offered by the vehicle, and that these severely weakened frames makes the vehicle inherently dangerous, then NHSTA will have no choice but to force Toyota to initiate a mandatory recall and buyback.
The NHTSA must take action. Toyota is in way over their head.
But I hope my frame is OK.
I'm going to try contacting local papers and TV stations but am not holding out much hope.
The reason she said "over and over" is because I emailed them 3 times regarding this issue because they never answered my question, so I replied until they answered. She said regardless of what is happening in the US, Toyota Canada does not have a program for 2001-2004 Tacomas. She was extremely rude, all I called for was because I wanted to know if the frame replacement in the US applied in Canada.
Oh well, theres really not much to do but wait. I don't plan on keeping a truck that had the frame replaced, so hopefully they buy it back and I can purchase a new Tacoma, if not, I don't know what to do.
Grammy
If I were you, I wouldnt buy a new tacoma or any toyota for that matter after being treated the way people have been and to think thats just in this forum.
I fought with Keven and he was pretty much reading from a Q card. it was pointless.
so i told him I will never buy a toyota again and he said "thats your decision to make"
.
So tomorrow it looks like I will be getting a honda element.
I wanted the ridgeline ( which is awesome) but the gas mileage is bad ..
u cant lose..
I just missed a 2007 honda element AGHHHHH
it was awesome but they would not meet me on the price..
major bummer .. ....
look at consumer reports for honda and nissan if your looking for a truck again.
the ridgeline is awesome and got excellent ratings.Get this,
nissan makes thier NISMO frontier.. and I heard that Suzuki is going to sell
the exact same truck and with suzuki you get a longer factory warranty.
Worth looking into because its literally the NISMO with suzuki badges.
my buddy has a NISMO and loves it.