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I ordered from the factory, so I don't have my Jeep yet.
tsjay
I anticipated sales during the holidays ie Labor Day / End of Summer gimmicks etc yet NOTHING on the TJ why?...
Basically DC has the monolopy on the fun small 4WD market. THERES no competition SO they can stick it to the loyal Jeepers. $22,000 buys LOTS of car yet the Jeep is rather spartan. The TJ uses simple basic engineering principles for assembly HECK I can slap one of these together in my garage (again trying to be funny BUT I'm not laughing) - Dealer says they sell themselves and YES you can buy close to invoice. BUT I can't shake the feeling that DC is sticking it to us. DAMN DC!
Like you I am in lust, my fantasy is a yellow Sport with all the fix'ins, black hard top, 30" canyon casts BUT for this price I expect darn near perfection because WHERE does the money GO??? engineering? rare exotic parts? NOT. I am anticipating that after paying $20,000+ my TJ will give me problems and thats not acceptable.
There can be no question that the Jeeps are grossly over-priced. The Jeep I have ordered is sticker priced within $350.00 of the sticker price of my Grand Prix GT. There's a world of difference in what you get with the Grand Prix vs. the Jeep. Crap, I got leather interior and an OVERDRIVE automatic transmission (not the three speed that Jeep offers). My Jeep will be a 5-speed.
But, I want a Jeep and I'm willing to pay the price. I'm hoping that driving a Jeep will be the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on. It better be for that kind of money.
As far as quality, I am expecting a good vehicle. I don't think buying a Jeep necessarily means you have to settle for poor quality. There doesn't seem to be an abundance of dissatisfied owners in this group. I'm sure we would hear from people if they were unhappy.
You just have to decide for yourself if having a Jeep is worth the price. The vehicle itself sure isn't worth what they charge for them.
tsjay
I am a quality engineer for an automotive supplier and I have no concerns at all with my TJ. I look at many body panels regularly in our plant as well as in many assembly plants and I think my TJ is very well made. The paint job is very good and the gap/flushness of all the body panels is excellent.
I didn't think there was anything wrong with the quality of the Wrangler, and hearing from you makes me feel even better.
I wouldn't have ordered one if I thought I was going to get a piece of crap.
tsjay
TIA
What is going on with the closing of the Jeep factory? I thought they were closing for 2 weeks between Christmas and New Years. At this rate my Jeep will never get built. I ordered it the last weekend of Oct. I called the Jeep number with my VON and they told me it would be built the 2nd week of December. I think its those damn Germans putting the screws to us. Didn't we beat them in a war a few years ago.. How do they end up running the show???( that was suppose to be funny) I am going to have a hard time waiting any longer.....
I got a completely redone from ground up CJ-7
the only original Jeep parts are the body.
It's got a high performance 327 bored to a 383
with lockers a nine bolt main in back and a dana 40 up front custom solid axles custom drive shafts 3" lift dual quad holley manifold and carb. bump shift automatic headers glass packs and dual exhaust. I know these specs don't mean much to some but you rock climbers are having trouble not dribbling on your keyboards about now. When I go from Park to drive you best have a foot on the brake cause those 300 horses will roll rubber off the 32-12.5's before you even touch the gas. Well I know I'm in for some nasty surprises because I didn't build it I bought it but You really gotta here this thing pulling 40% grades over 2-foot rock steps to appreciate the power of a V8 under the hood. Well I think I'm gonna go drive this thing around while I still have money for gas cause the mileage ain't pretty.
look up "jeep essentials" in any search engine and you will be able to buy online or order a catalog.
Al
www.angelfire.com/geek/jeep/
They will still take the two week shutdown at Christmas as far as I know (unless they make it even longer due to low sales).
According to my dealer, who supposedly gets better information than we do when we call the 800 number, my Jeep was supposed to be made tomorrow originally, but will now be made a week from tomorrow. That makes sense, since the shut down is one week long.
So, I still ought to beat the Christmas shutdown. My Jeep should be shipped the 5th of December and arrive within a week or two after that. My dealer just checked the status of my Jeep today.
It looks like the shutdown simply delayed things for me by one week.
tsjay
question about invoice $. i know what kbb, edmunds and others list (20748 w/dest), but how come the dealers always have a higher number claiming theirs is current? several here have mentioned getting deals for $200 over invoice but $200 over what? just curious. has anyone out there gotten a jeep from CarMax (good/bad)?
The invoice numbers should not change that often but they do change.
When someone says 200 over invoice they mean 200 over 20748 (the invoice price you have listed).
So 20948 + tax, title & license
Hope that helps
Still looking for suggestions for a new user name to go along with my new Jeep. Help me, brothers and sisters.
tsjay
-Dual tops
-Dana 44
-3.73
-Full metal doors
-deep tint
-best stereo combo
-canyon wheels...
anything else? How much should I be paying for this thing? Seattle area........thanks.
I was too late in getting this info and had already ordered my Jeep, so I won't be getting it. I could have changed my order, but it would have delayed my Jeep in being built, so I decided to live without it.
Also, I hope you are not expecting much out of that stereo. You have to get the "best" sound system in a Jeep just to have a very mediocre sound system (and that's being kind).
What color are you getting?
I LOVE your choice of wheels! Those canyons are beautiful. My baby is going to have them.
I paid $200.00 over invoice for my Jeep, and that's as good as I have heard anyone do in this group. You can try for a better deal, though, cause the Jeeps aren't selling well. They even shut the plant down for a week due to low sales.
tsjay
The 2000 we have had for 4 months. It's problems include 1.) Torn weather stripping,2.) Lights did not work. 3.0 3.) 5spd transmission is noisy and very hard to shift 4.) 5.) Has recently not wanted to start in the mornings, sometimes takes up to 2 minutes.
I just would like you to know that I have driven Jeeps most of my life, I have 2 Willys's Jeeps and used to have a 1985 CJ7 Laredo. I am a fan of the Jeep, but this is changing. If I were looking at buying a Jeep Wrangler, I would look at it very closely, drive it at least 24 hours before buying it and then think some more. These vehicles are noisy, rough riding, squirrly handling, water leaking, and lately mechanically flawed vehicles, but that is what makes them Jeep Wranglers. If you are buying one thinking that this is going to be comfortable on long road trips, mileage will be good, and it will never give you a problem, DO NOT BUY ONE. If you are looking for something to haul the family around in and is easy to pick things up from the store in, DO NOT BUT ONE. If you are looking for a fun little vehicle, that will need to be worked on, can become a convertible, can go darn near everywhere and can be modified to your hearts content, then by all means BUY ONE.
The point is, these are like no other car on the road today. They are from another era and that is why most Jeep owners have them. We are able to overlook the problems because we enjoy them for the good and bad. But, do not expect it to be quiet , dry, smooth, roomy and userfriendly, because they are not in the least. I would have it no other way, I love my 2 pieces of junk and would not trade them for anything.
It's a Jeep thing, if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.
Kudos to the previous post on pointing out the drawbacks of Wrangler/CJ ownership. I think that people considering a new Wrangler need to be aware that although the new TJs are a great improvement, there are a lot of things to put up with as an owner, esp if this is your primary set of wheels. I haven't had the mechanical problems on my '98 Sport though-only one thing that needed to be fixed under warranty (the gauge thing, scroll back a bit on this post to see).
benjaminchoi: Trak-lok is a good option, but make sure you get A/C, even if you live in the Northwest (I do too). You will need it sometimes, trust me.
My Jeep is at the 4x4 shop today, I'm adding front and rear tow hooks and black Smittbilt tubular side-steps (aka nerf bars). Will be getting new tires next week (30" BFG All-terrains). Whoo-ho! Mebbe I'll post some pictures.
goducks1 HAHA I'm in the same situation (sort of) my other car is a Stang convertible. I hope the TJ will compliment my Ford.
The ride is choppy and noisy. The seat is comfortable, but driving position is cramped. I commute 40 miles round-trip, and IMO that would be the limit (unless its a long trip to get to a mud hole!) Gas mileage is on par with my Tahoe. First tank was 15.4 MPG, mostly city. Build quality is ok. I have noticed some rattles, loose fittings, paint imperfections, and some bad bolts on the hard top. And that 5 speed! Wow, sounds like a bad refrigerator when the clutch is out. Weird. Its a rough shifter too, but I remember that from a first year Grand Cherokee I had with rare 5 speed.
But it has merits too. The pickup is great with the I6, and it darts in and out of city streets really well. I can park this thing anywhere, love size and visibility. Besides, I'm not a fan of any highway commute, even if I was driving a Lexus. I bought this baby to get away from the asphalt, not to cruise in it. And its our 2nd car, we have a loaded minivan for a cruiser.
So to date I give my Jeep a B, hoping to up the grade when I can go off-road and topless. And I am excited about going to my first Jamboree in June (Kentucky). Hope to see some of you Jeepers there!
Kevin
MY QUESTION...I REALIZE THERE IS THE "ITS A JEEP" THATS WHY I LOVE IT KIND OF OUTLOOK, BUT...IS IT DEPENDABLE ENOUGH, AND WHAT REALLY IS THE RIDE LIKE WITH THE SOFT TOP ON (A 2001). I BOUGHT A MIATA WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT, AND I KNOW WHAT THE FUN FACTOR IS LIKE, ALTHOUGH THE TJ IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF FUN (OR IS IT REALLY THE SAME, BUT DIFFERENT?). I HAVE FOUND A STEEL BLUE ONE IN TORONTO THAT I AM GOING TO LOOK AT, ANY THOUGHTS WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
THANK YOU,
i don't know anything about cars and i'm planning to buy a wrangler but have no idea what to look for. i dont even know what the differences between the Sport and Sahara are. But the main thing i'm looking for is the 30' tire/wheel group, manual transmission, and ABS brakes. but for some reason when i try to select this at all the online car quote sites like carsdirect, greenlight, etc. it says i can't. any way around this guys? also, how is the automatic transmission on the new model wranglers?
Thanks, Jeff
Thanks for the input TJSAY and Goducks. I test drove a Jeep a few months ago and remember it being a unique experience sitting up so high and having everything so not Hondaish.
Is the top down summer mode worth the pain it can cause with reliability issues, horrible gas mileage, etc.?
I now own a 2000 Grand Prix GT that has been a "perfect" car for the first 19,600 miles. It has not been back to the dealer for even one little adjustment or repair. It is great-looking, very peppy, and gets really good gas mileage. It is totally practical for my needs. Although this car has been all anyone could hope for, I don't have any "affection" for it. I respect the car, and I do hope that someone who takes good care of a car will buy her, but it won't be painful to let her go.
I am hoping that I will love the Wrangler Sport I have ordered so much that they will have to bury me in it! Waiting for her to be built, shipped, and delivered is killing me.
I am pretty sure that I can handle the rough ride, the wind noise, the road noise, and maybe a leak or two, but I am NOT expecting mechanical trouble. This will be my only vehicle, and I absolutely have to be able to count on her to get me to work and to behave herself on business trips. How common are serious mechanical problems? I sure haven't seen many negative posts in the last several months that I have been visiting this group.
tsjay
Make sure you read OnlyinaJeep's post. The best description I have ever read about a 4 banger
Kevinvsr
I agree with most of your comments but for me the driving position is not cramped and I can handle long road trips in my Jeep. I have taken lots of long trips in my Jeep and will in the future.
abbd
Overall I think Jeeps are dependable. Not all Jeeps are having problems and the Jeeps having the problems are still driveable. The new soft tops are suppose to have 50% noise reduction. I am not sure if I would go with the soft top only option in Canada. Please don't let me see you comparing a miata to Jeep again
OnlyinaJeep
I have been to CO twice in my Jeep. It is around 1000 miles round trip. I am planning to go 2 more times next year. The trip there and back was not bad at all for me. Did you have the top down on the drive there and back. Any extended trip with the top down on the highway will be hell. I would have the top up or if you only have the hardtop, then use a bikini top with doors.
limerence
ABS brakes are not available with the 30" tire group. I have not heard of any mechanical problems with the auto. The gas mileage is not as good as the manual and the power is not as good.
pretzeldude66
Probably the biggest difference between the two is passenger space and storage room.
benjaminchoi & tsjay
reliability and serious mechanical problems
Jeeps do have problems but I think Jeeps are reliable. The problems you have heard about on here do not cause the Jeep to be undriveable. Of course if your Jeep is always at the dealer for repairs you can't exactly drive it.
Yes it is worth it benjaminchoi
My Jeep does not have any leaks so far. If anyone is keep count.
Just giving my .02. Hope it helps
I am lucky, that I, 1.) Have a backup automobile to drive, so that we have a way to get around when one Jeep is in the shop. 2.) I have a great Jeep service department to go to when my Jeeps do break down. and 3.) I have a experience with Jeeps so that I am able to diagnose most problems and fix the ones that do not need to be covered by warranty work. Jeeps are not for everyone.
I tell friends and family that are interested in one that they are a lot like a puppy. They are cute at first and you can't help but want one. But, as time goes on, they start to develop a personality and this personality that at first seemed so cute, can drive some people crazy and lead to serious buyers remorse. I can't emphasize enough that a person wanting a Jeep should test one for at least 24 hours before purchasing. I long test drive at highway speeds is a MUST, especially with a soft top. If you can not stand road noise or instability from strong cross winds, then you should not consider a Jeep. The short wheelbase also comes into play. Driving a Jeep at highway speeds is nothing like a car. Over compensation when steering a car usually leads to a lane change, but in a Jeep it can easily lead to a rollover. You have to stay on your toes when driving a Jeep on the highway, especially if you have strong crosswinds. After a while, many people tire of climbing in and out of a Jeep, especially older folks. I know from experience that older family members of mine can not get in and out of my Jeep and it is stock, so if you ever take people with you, you have to take this fact into consideration.
Also, the security of a soft top Jeep is none. You are basically driving a tent on wheels, so if you are used to leaving valuables in your car, then you are not going to have them much longer because they will be stolen. This is just a fact, they will either unzip your windows if they are nice, or take a knife a cut your Jeep open like a pumpkin if they are typical.
So, these are some things to take into consideration. I am not trying to talk you out of a Jeep, we have bought 2 in the last year, but I am used to them and knew what to expect. If you have any more questions or comments, please let me know.
The wind was blowing 30mph + the whole time and we could not hear ourselves think. On the trip, we ended up using hand signals to talk to each other, so that we did not have to yell. I could not believe how bad the upper half windows flex in strong crosswinds. I could put my hand through the gap at times it was so flexed. When we left Kansas into Colorado, the head winds started up and the gas mileage went from poor to non-existent.
While in Colorado, it was great. We took the top down the entire time. We went to the top of Pikes Peak topless and all over central Colorado. The views were spectacular and time spent out there was unforgettable.
On the trip back, we bought ear plugs so that we would not get the headaches we had on the way out. The wind was still blowing hard so they were a much needed item. I will still have to hold my position that the trip there and back was hell, but keep in mind that we will be doing it again next year. 8 hours in a windtunnel is worth the fun and beauty that a Jeep offers in the great state of Colorado.
Reading your real world Jeep experience is like the next best/worst thing to owning one. touchè
I learned last week about how unstable Jeeps can be in strong cross winds. If you're not careful, you'll quickly end up in another lane. It's definitely not a good idea to drive 70 in high winds.
Overall, however, I'm quite pleased with how solid it feels most of the time. There are a few quirks. The thing that bothers me the most is having my left arm jammed against the door - there really isn't a whole lot of room. And don't get me started about the gas mileage.
I checked this board for months while I was researching buying a Jeep. I almost changed my mind because of some of the negative posts, but realized that the urge to buy one would not go away until I owned one. I figured that if I hated it, I could always sell it. It doesn't look like that's going to happen...
I'm also thinking of driving out to Colorado in the spring. For me it would be a whopping 1200 miles! Last time I drove up Pikes Peak I was in a Saturn (hey, it was a good car) and I'm looking forward to driving to the top in my Jeep.
benjaminchoi: Wranglers are probably the BEST vehicle on the market for holding their value, even better than a Civic.
I personally love the TJ, but they can be a bit noisy. Mine is a hard top, and there is still a flaw in the design that lets an irritating draft in through the middle of the top-to-windshield seal. I finally got fed up and realized a painfully simple fix: I took a roll of electrical tape, and taped over the seal from the outside. Since the top is black, and the frame is yellow, you can't even tell the tape is there, and the problem is 100% eliminated.
Then, with that noise out of the way, I now noticed the excessive road noise. A jeep is exactly the same as any car would be without insulation. Think about it, you have a 1/4" slab of indoor/outdoor carpet, compared to 3/8" carpet plus a 1/2" insulation pad in a car. The beauty of the jeep is that the carpets lift out easily to wash out the floor. This makes for a simple fix: Go to any upholstery shop and buy enough insulation to cover the entire floor. (It cost me about $25) The result, for $25 and about 4 hours work, is a jeep that is as quiet as my wife's Accord!
In a nutshell, Jeeps are a vehicle that you'll want to modify and personalize. Don't overlook the fact that you modify the comfort level as well!
P.S. Disregard all of this if you have a soft top! 1000 cans of starch couldn't make one quiet
I had a new '99 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4 X 4 that had some problems, but the dealer took care of them efficiently and without hassle. It wasn't even the dealer where I bought it, but they treated me like I had bought a dozen vehicles from them.
tsjay
Alee and Sparx
My baby is supposed to be born Tuesday. Two more days! Then a week or two to get here. The waiting is killing me!
tsjay
I sure hope she gets built this week!
Besides the week of the 18th, there's the usual week shut down for the holidays, then there are some rumblings that some of the Chrysler plants might be down the week after that!
tsjay
Sorry to hear about the plant shutting down, what is going on with DC? If they would give some incentives to buy Wranglers they wouldn't have em sitting in the lots. I think the Germans are killing Chrysler. I hope they dont do what the guys at BMW did to the Rover. They stole years of automotive enginering from the British and then ran the company into the ground till Ford bought it. Well I'm babbling.....
Hope you get your Jeep born soon....
tsjay
I have extended myself financially many times in the past with all of my car trading, but this is absolutely the furthest I have ever stuck my neck out to purchase a vehicle.
This Jeep will have to be with me for a long, long time, so I hope she is a good one.
Noise I can handle, but doesn't that transmission noise indicate that some parts are rubbing together and wearing in a way that isn't good?
I am not expecting a Cadillac, but the Jeep is going to have to get me to work and back and be dependable on my business trips. Let her be noisy, rough-riding, wind-sensitive, leaky, or whatever, but I need her to start every time and to get me to my destination.
Will Jeeps do that?
tsjay
tsjay
Where in Ky. is the Jamboree and when?
I live in western Ky. and I might be interested in going to it.
tsjay
I'm putting together figures & data to order a 2001 Wrangler Sport. I'm getting confused on a few issues, having never purchased a jeep before.
1) Regarding the Canyon 30" Tire & Wheel Group...I desire this because I have read that the wheel itself is one of the most attractive available. Also I want the larger tire to get that more sporty look. Would these be good reasons based of those of you with experience?
2) In ordering the Canyon 30" group, which axle ratio would be preferred? And ABS is NOT available with the 30" group? And finally, what about the rear trac-lok differential? By the way, I would be ordering the automatic.
3) I'm will definitely be ordering the dual tops, especially after following some of the post on here (thanks for that) but I am concerned about something. If both tops are coming in, does that also mean both sets of doors are coming with them? I'm kinda unsure of the "look" with the top off and full doors attached. Do they ship 1/2 doors along with the dual top selection?
4) If you order the dual tops, do they automatically come with the deep tinted windows or do you add the cost of that in addition to the cost of the dual tops? And speaking of the dual tops....and I hope I haven't missed something and sound stupid here....all info indicates jeeps come standard with a soft top without increasing the base price. Now, if you order a hard top it runs (retail) $920.00, but if you order the dual top group it runs (retail) $1800. What did I miss there? (I just know somebody's laughing right now)
5) This is the last question (for this post anyway)...in ordering a 2001 model is the automatic transmission free? I saw this in several car sites, and one even deducts it as I put in my options. But another says it's for 2000 models only. What gives.
Any and all info you guys can help me with would be greatly appreciated. I'm really looking forward to getting into a jeep (so much so, that I'm going from a Lincoln Navigator to it) but I'm also anal about getting to know what I'm spending my money on. Someday there will be a auto salesman that will sit down and be able to answer all my questions forthright...until then......I'll depend on people like you
1)the 30" wheels are nice looking, but I think the Grizzly rims look better. The 30" Goodyears are inferior to a lot of other brands you could buy for comparable $$; I just bought 30" BF Goodrich A/Ts that many people seem to prefer. So the choice is yours.
2)ABS is not available with the Dana 44 axle. I don't know if the Dana 44 is required for the 30" tires and can't figure it out from Edmunds description either. Check out Kelly's Blue Book.
3)you only get the full doors with the dual top option, but you can buy matching two piece soft doors from Bestop aftermarket for under $300 if that helps.
4)you've got the math right here though your #s are a bit inflated. Naturally it costs more to get both tops than either one alone.
5)the auto does not appear to be free at this time. I also STRONGLY advise against getting this particular automatic transmission, see the above posts. Both of the available transmissions need serious upgrading by DC, but the automatic transmission has no overdrive(!). If you feel comfortable with the poor gas mileage and wear of your engine spinning at 3500 RPMs on the highway, then go for it. I don't.
Most Jeep owners seem to know far more than the salesmen we buy from. I had to walk mine through the ordering process myself.
Found out you can't get ABS or Trac-Lock if you don't get the 3.73 axle ratio. Do not plan on taking my Jeep off-road much. (Please don't throw stones.) Have heard the 3.07 axle ratio gets better gas mileage. Would guess it would allow for slightly better top end performance on the road. Am I right? Can you tell a difference between the two when you are driving them?
Thanks.