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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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Comments
But remember, most of the Accords, Camrys, Altimas, and so forth sold are equipped with the base engine. The 500 will compete well against them and against the non-supercharged Buicks, Pontiacs, Pontiacs, Chevys, and the Crown Victoria.
However, for buyers who want more power, the 500 with the initial 3.0 V6 will have a tough time competing against cars like the Maxima, G35, Camry SE, ES330, Impala SS, the supercharged GM cars, and the Chrysler 300s with the bigger engines.
If it was a real merger tho, or if crysler remained all american, I would defenetly look into this product, i love RWD V-8's. But I will think of more than myself when I make a car purchase.
Not only do they have a german car center, but now they are occupying detriot. Those bastards can sell cars in hell for all I care.
The following will give you a clue to the future of the Crown Vic & Gr. Marquis.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0401/29/autos-49664.htm
Back on topic, I don't really care about the nav system. The going rate for those things is way too expensive!
Saw the 500 at the auto show and like the looks. Will have to wait for more engine before I'd consider one though.
Comment to the person that doesn't like DC. You really thought they were merging? It appeared to me, from the start, it was a purchase. On the plus side, my DC car (a PT GT) is the best assembled car I have ever purchased. Much better than my Acura or Toyota. No, I don't like that the profits go to Germany, but at least a lot of our people still have jobs.
As one that listens to AM radio news in the car, one that finds the super car sound systems useless, I do find a nav system almost essential. Having had one for a couple of years I wouldn't want to purchase a car without one. Agree the prices are still too high (the lowest I've seen is about $1200 from DC) for a built in one.
Regarding the 300C and 500: This is going to be an interesting battle. I'm sure the 500 will sell more, but I'm guessing if the 300C finds even a little styling acceptance, it'll be a big hit, but the 500 will do better in the "mainstream." There will be many cross shopping the 300C/Magnum, 500, and new Buick LaCrosse.
fndlyfmrflyr: I'm glad you like your PT GT. My parents love their PT Cruiser and I really enjoy it as well. I recommend it to everyone I can.
Nav Systems: I, for one, can't picture what need I'd have for one, but I will agree with those who say that once they've had one, they won't buy a vehicle without it. I've heard many friends say that.
'05 Passat: If the spy photos floating around are any indication, it's a really, really good looking sedan that's much more than evolutionary. Imagine a scaled down Phaeton with the front of the recent VW concept two-seater. Super-upscale looking with loads of VW's somewhat fussy and excessive detailing, I'll bet the price will climb into the 3-series/C-class range as a result. If it doesn't, well, Accord and Camry look out!
- Bret
Are there any profits ? As far as I know money rather flow from Germany into our pockets through huge insentives.
And there are European Ford, Opel, Jaguar and etc. who are losing money too.
Very handy finding addresses in new to us neighborhoods, especially in the dark. The feature that show stores and restaurants by distance has been a big plus too. Getting around traffic jams is another...
It is kind of like discovering it has more uses than expected and then finding you don't want to do without the convenience.
On the other hand, there certainly is a direct correlation between horsepower and sales -- see the Dodge ads featuring its hemi truck engines as evidence. Who the heck buys a truck because of its 0-60 time? Plenty of people, apparently.
I don't understand how nav will not be an option. With the prices coming down on them, maybe that will change.
I really like the looks and utility of this car. As former victim of one of Ford's "World cars" (Mondeo/Contour), I only hope they get this one right. I for one will wait a while to see how it ranks in reliability and resale. If it looks solid but loses 50 percent of its value after two years, I'll be on the used lot picking one up.
I find cars with test results in the 8+ sec. Range for 0-60 / high 15 sec quarter mile to be marginal in some traffic situations, like merging into fast moving traffic where merge lanes are very short, particularly when carrying passengers and luggage.
And I personally find vehicles with test results in the 6.5 sec. Range for 0-60 and below 15 sec quarter times generally result in a car that will effortlessly deal with any traffic situation, and offer entertainment when asked.
Just my $.02.
- Ray
Always ready for increased accelerative performance, NOT always ready to pay for it . . .
The big issue with the Chrysler 300 will be the visibility. They will be out on the street as rentals in April, so we will know before the 500 is out in the Fall. Both cars have higher than normal seat bottoms, but Ford wisely refrained from raising the beltline.
The 2004 Taurus, which uses the same engine, has been improved a bit, making 201 hp / 207 Lb.-ft, and improved mileage. Will the same engine be used in the 500? If so it's not 200 hp.
ANT? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The Escape uses the same engine, makes 200HP with 196TQ, this because it uses different computer, electronics, etc. which alter it in that way. Just earlier today I was reading a review of the new Volvo S40 on Edmunds, and read the HP at 218HP, yet on the specs it stated 220HP. (this mainly because the US conversation loses 2 from emmissions and such).
But in all it's the same thing, the thing to look for is the transmission and how well they'll make use of the available power.
"And I personally find vehicles with test results in the 6.5 sec. Range for 0-60 and below 15 sec quarter times generally result in a car that will effortlessly deal with any traffic situation, and offer entertainment when asked."
Depends on which senario. I was using a friends new Accord yesturday and I was stopped at one lane at a light, and wanted to dart over the next lane over and go down maybe 75 ft...and with the initial press of the gas I was short on torque and frustrated the driver that was behind me. It wasn't till the tach hits 3000RPM that the engine is able to breathe better.
By the way, the fastest Five Hundred / Montego will probably be the front wheel drive car with the six speed automatic - it has the most total (transmission * final drive) torque multiplication in 1st gear - 14.36, vs 12.8 for the 172 Lb. heavier awd car.
The fastest way to accelerate with an automatic is to dip into the throttle slightly before releasing the brake, then floor the throttle at the same time you release the brake. You just want to load the torque converter and raise the revs, but not into the low thousands like drag racers with automatics.
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/cars13_20040113.htm
Here is a link to excellent LARGE high-resolution photos - you can clearly see the stitches in the seats and other details:
http://www.maximum-cars.com/Cars/Car.php?carnumber=525
Acceleration is just one factor. Handling, braking, quality, size, visibility, looks, and passive safety are others.
Car and Driver found that the 1994 T-bird 4.6 V8 we previously owned, with 205 HP and 265 Ft-Lbs. moving 3,900 Lbs. through a four speed automatic accelerated to 60 in 8.1 seconds. I'll bet that the 3,800 Lb. awd Five Hundred / Montego with 200+ HP and 200+ Ft.-Lbs. running through a six speed or CVT will still be in the eight second range, and that the front wheel drive versions will be in the low eight second range. The extra gears allow the engine to stay at peak torque. As I said many posts ago, Car & Driver reported that the LS430 lost a full second on the zero to sixty run when they upgraded from a five to a six speed automatic.
- Bret
Kind of a mix of Passat side and Avalon front.
Front end is really too boring even for a family sedan.
So, if you're going to base your statments on Car and Driver and the LS430, you might want to stop using the analogy that the six speed is going to make a substantial difference for the 500.
Citation:
2001 Lexus LS430 tested Nov. 2000 by Car and Driver, 0-60: 6.7 seconds.
2004 Lexus LS430 tested Dec. 2003 by Car and Driver, 0-60: 6.3 seconds.
~alpha
PS- I'm not trying to be a smart [non-permissible content removed], and I let the mistake go the first time you said it, but you've repeated it and I'd like the record to stand straight.
On Montego Luxury model - CVT is standard & AWD optional. Top of the line Premier model 6 speed Auto is standard and CVT only available with AWD.
Thats at least how I read it from a Ford Media release dated 2/4/04. Specifications begin about mid-page. It appears to be contrary to the report that CVT is only available as AWD
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=17138&ma- ke_id=94
Ford will probably offer navigation, but a competent car audio shop can add it. I drive all over southern and northern California, and occasionally other cities, but just don't understand the attraction of squinting at a tiny little screen, when paper maps are so readily available and inexpensive. I am interested in knowing why you like/want it?
Properly used, one barely needs to look at the screen in order to reach one's programmed destination whereas a map needs constant reference. The ability to tell the system to find a preprogrammed destination (ie home) and having the route plotted for you without any muss is worth it for many people. If one travels to unfamiliar areas often or are in job that requires much auto travel, a NAV system can be a great thing to have.
The major selling point on the Five Hundred, I believe, will be quality. Although this vehicle may not be directly competing with the Accord or Camry, the reason these two vehicles are the top selling sedans in the U.S. is that they are comfortable, solid, and a good value. They do offer navigation systems and have respectable V6 specs, but the majority of people buy them because they are affordable good cars, simply put. I think the Five Hundred has the right idea. Ford went conservative on the styling as not to scare away buyers away and focused on the more important issues. The interior is beautiful and the Duratec 30, which has been around since 1996, has had time to be polished and refined. The two available transmissions should offer a great match to this proven powertrain.
Also, the Duratec 35 isn't that far away. I think it was a good idea for Ford not to not rush this new engine, which was the case with the new Powerstroke, and also to leave more room for improvement on the Five Hundred.
Although the high-end models are the only ones being previewed, the base SE should be what really determines the outcome of the car. For only a little over $22k, you get power windows and locks, cruise control, a power driver's seat, power adjustable pedals, CD player, traction control, keyless entry, and a sophisticated DOHC engine and 6 sp. auto transmission. To me, that's an incredible deal and should attract many buyers. However, we can say all we want but no one will really know what is going to happen until production models come out, test drives are conducted, reviews are written, and the actual vehicle is sitting on dealership lots.
Sorry, I've been reading all these posts on this topic and just had a lot to say!
The comparo I want to see: Five Hundred (top model... or the Montego's top model) vs. 300 Limited, redesigned Avalon XLS, LaCrosse CXS, Amanti, Maxima SL.
The larger midsize class is getting interesting, IMO. (Thats my own term, because I will always only consider the Crown Vic/GM and Caprices the real "full size sedans")
~alpha
As posts above prove, the majority of people buying a Montego or Five Hundred are the type to say "Why spend $2000 on a navigation system when a $2 gas station map is exactly the same thing?"
- A high seating position for a good view, as in minivans, SUVs, and pickups, but not so high that you have to step up as is typical with SUVs, and,
- A very large back seat and trunk, meeting the need to carry passengers in comfort and cargo, but in a package which is not a primative, frumpy and expensive Town Car, nor a relatively rough riding, and poorer handling SUV/truck.
The Chrysler 300 will also offer a generous back seat and an elevated seating position, but it has a high beltline and 50's hot rod type roof . Unfortunately, it is highly probable that visibility will be horrible - fashion for the sake of fashion. Contrast that with the open and airy Five Hundred greenhouse. A big V8 is not enough to make me buy a car I can't see out of, and the Five/Hundred / Montego also has a much larger trunk.
If it's rated "large car" by the EPA, then it's a full sized car, FWD or not.
Ford might be calling these "Midsize" to not downstage the Crown Vic. Because the CV is RWD and V8, most will perceive that as being the "higher vehicle" in the line. Yet mechanically and in techonology, the 500/Montego are far more advanced overall.
Ironically the other day I was looking at rental cars from some companies, and one mentioned the Cavalier as being "intermidiate" vehicle in their line up. Granted, space wise I might be able to swallow the Focus for maybe Intermidiate, but the cramp Cavalier??? Both the Cavalier and Focus are compacts, and should be respected as such. Next up, maybe the Sonata and Mazda6 are intermidiate (Hertz got this one right). A few had "standard" as a vehicle class (no such class). Then midsize are ALL the vehicles we know of like Accord, Taurus, Camry, new Malibu, etc. While the fullsize really being vehicles like Buick Park Avenue, Crown Vic/GM, Chrysler Concorde, etc.
I suggest some view various rental agencies before they rent from them. I dislike that deceptive trick of trying to upsize a car. I don't think I would have been SO offended if maybe they used a larger "compact" like a Focus, Corolla, etc, but calling the cramp and lousy Cavalier Intermidite? Ahhh ! I fired off an email to those companies of course
Yeah that's true, but at some point, virtually all cars are going to be called "mid sized" and confuse buyers. Why not call it 'standard size'?
And yes, rental firms are decieving. I went to an outlet and they claimed that a Neon was 'mid sized'!