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We use the net in our Olds constantly to keep groceries and other purchases from sliding all over the trunk and dumping the contents.
Frank
Have you seen the Letter from the Town Hall Manager on the Town Hall Welcome page? If not, you might want to follow that link to have a look.
And hang on to your seats. Change is never easy - for any of us - but resolving the Search problems we've had will be worth the pain.
Pat
Sedans Host
If I could add the sway bar and 17" wheels to a new P and avoid the $1,500 - $2,000 60k service required for the S (due to the add'l engine complexity of the Miller s/c)I may not lose too much (handling)performance while saving some dollars. Is the S so much faster that its worth the add'l purchase and maintenance costs? Thanks for your feedback.
www.mazdamillenia.org then click on "forums"
hope this helps
up until recently the whole assembly had to be replaced to the tune of apx $1200....but rumor has it that you can now just buy the motor which is around $300.
Rich
Completely backwards.
P at 105000
S at 60000
Check the manual. I have. Also check Gates Belts site. I have.
I was the first signed up at http://www.mazdamillenia.org/forums/ and made the first thread other than the admin.
It is populated mostly by customizers, stereo fanatics and hot rodders. I read it everyday, but there is seldom anything of interest to owners interested in general maintenance and shopping information. It is a nice looking site though.
I also test drove the "s" when I got the "p" and there is not that much of a difference.I think their 0-60 mph is about 1 second in difference.Now, you tell me if that is worth $3000 more out of your pocket,you got to be kidding me if you say yes.For the buyer who wants the MILLENIA I would advise you to opt for the "P" if you are looking for relatively decent speed and it will cost you much less in terms of maintaining in the long run."CARS DONT STAY NEW FOREVER THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED WEAR AND TEAR AND THATS GOING TO EAT IN YOUR BANK BOOK.
NO OFFENSE TO ALL YOU "S" OWNERS.:)
"Well-I have a '98 Millenia S and I have had no problems out of this vehicle. Extremely reliable-also the S timing belt does not need to be changed at 60,000 like the non-S millenia's. The S Timing belt goes until 100K miles. This is per Maz-Max in Houston. The dealer will tell you 60,000 however What are these "supposed" problems with the S?"
"Well, I can say I have never heard of any issues with the S, in fact I was going to consider trading it in on a new Volvo when the Service manager told me to keep the Mazda.. He said safety and reliability is great in the S other than the 60k service (which is debatable).
Plus the S is uniqe and are not a dime a dozen.. I have had my S for 20k or so and run the hell out of the car.. My gas milage sucks, because I do not keep my foot off the floor.."
"Definitly go witht the S type if you love to drive. I just got a '99 S, comes with traction control standard, and the driving difference is night & day b/t the 2.3 and 2.5. I dont know what this guy is saying about high maitanance, ive talked with ppl at the dealership that say they love the car, and one guy just bought his 2nd one! As far as i know through research and reviews, both engines are great, but the 2.3 definitly gives a lot more pep."
Now, Frank just b/c your MUCH oldre than most people on those boards definitely doesn't give you the right to bash it. And please don't reply and tell me I'm wrong again when I'm simply quoting others peoples "proven" references. Thank you in advance for refraining from your typical rudeness.
Quote:""Well-I have a '98 Millenia S and I have had no problems out of this vehicle. Extremely reliable-also the S timing belt does not need to be changed at 60,000 like the non-S millenia's. The S Timing belt goes until 100K miles. This is per Maz-Max in Houston. The dealer will tell you 60,000 however What are these "supposed" problems with the S?"
------------------------------------
That is just simply WRONG. It is old information that was never correct, and still isn't.
------------------------------------
The following is a DIRECT QUOTE from the 2001 Millenia Owners Manual page 8-4, which is schedule 1. Schedule 2 on page 8-6 reads identically. If you try to say Mazda is wrong, you are really being ridiculous.
Engine timing belt--2.5 liter DOHC:
Inspect at 96000km (60000 miles)
Replace every 168,000km (105,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------
Engine timing belt--Miller Cycle Engine V6 DOHC:
Replace every 96,000km (60,000 miles)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
The following is from the Gates Rubber Company:
Timing Belt Replacement Guide from Gates
Avoid costly engine damage. Change your timing belt at the recommended interval.
--------------------------------------------
Millenia
1995-96 2.3L V6 (Miller Cycle) T267 60,000 Federal
105,000 California
1997-00 2.3L V6 (Miller Cycle) T267 105,000 California
1997-00 2.3L V6 (Miller Cycle) T267 60,000 Federal
1995-96 2.5L V6 T214 60,000 Federal
105,000 California
1997-00 2.5L V6 T214 105,000 California
1997-00 2.5L V6 T214 60,000 Federal
2001 2.5L V6 T214 105,000
The Gates chart has some editing problems, but you can get the idea from it.
The Millenia Owners Manual is clear and direct, and proves the P gets only an inspection at 60000mi, and a belt change at 105000 miles. While the S REQUIRES a belt CHANGE every 60000 miles.
Your mistake is quoting other peoples information that is WRONG instead of researching the information yourself, and getting it correct.
Jumping on me or anyone else, and calling us names DOES NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT!
One more correction. The P as delivered weighs 3358 pounds according to Mazda, who has a pretty good inside track on that information also. You missed that by 642 pounds. The S weighs 3488 pounds. The extra 130 pounds the S weighs over the P eats up a good bit of the horsepower advantage.
so as you write "the S REQUIRES a belt CHANGE every 60000 miles" you should mention "but not in California, where the same belt in the same engine needs to be changed after 105,000 miles" And how is it avoiding costly engine damage? It's non-interference engine, the worst that can happen is that you'll be towed.
Tomek
P.S. Take it easy, you'll live longer!
Put that $3000.00 in t-bills and a few years down the road you will be able to afford a real muscle car.
Quote:"so as you write "the S REQUIRES a belt CHANGE every 60000 miles" you should mention "but not in California, where the same belt in the same engine needs to be changed after 105,000 miles"
I don't know, except from Gates, about the pre-2001 S, and they don't include the 2001 S. But unless California owners get a different manual, and/or California forces the 105000 change, the change is called for at 60000 miles. That is still true all but in California, regardless.
My main point though, is that the P does not require a belt change at 60000 miles Federal or California starting with the 2001 models, but the 2001 S requires a belt change at 60000 miles at least everywhere but California.
Oh, the thing about protecting your engine (Avoid costly engine damage. Change your timing belt at the recommended interval.) is Gate's advertising blarb from their site, not my wording.
What is the point? We are talking about what is REQUIRED maintenance, not whether we want to gamble. I am very aware that both engines are non interference, so why not just let them go forever with no timing belt change?
As tomekk points out, the worse that will happen is you will need towed in.
And lets stay away from the age cracks, please. I'm 42, and you guys are making me feel old.
Bob
There is no need for all these personal attacks. It is very possible to debate facts and opinions without throwing mud at each other. Those of you have been attacking need to rethink how you word your messages.
And profanity is not tolerated here.
Pat
Sedans Host
If any further explaining or arguing needs to be done, it needs to done off-line.
Pat
Sedans Host
If you do not need the performance advantage of the 2.3L Miller Cycle Supercharged engine, save a bundle now and later by buying a P. The other additional standard equipment on the S is of no value to anyone using the car for general transportation. In addition the larger wheels, thus skinnier rubber, make for a harsher ride
If you are that performance minded though, there are other cars just as reliable as the MMS for the same price (MSRP) that will run rings around it. If an additional 40 HP is worth $3000, then it should be no problem to pay perhaps another $2000 and have 255 HP.
Simple.
Frank
Edit:
Quote:"#1759 of 1774 Cabin air filter by phild_mason Jun 12, 2002 (06:14 am)
Has anyone replaced their cabin air filter? How hard is it? Do you have to pull the dash apart?"
I am not even sure if the MM has a cabin filter. I have been wondering about this too, so I will do some checking and see what I can find out. Also, someone else here might have an answer for us.
The S is the superior car (could you really say if the S and the P were the same price that you would get the P?). The S has 40 more HP and comes standard with traction control, bigger wheels and a better sound system.
However, the S costs more. So it really comes down to what is the price point that the S is worth the money over the P. To me, it's something in the $2000 - $2500 range but since money and budgets are a personal matter it's really up to the individual.
This argument is something like who is the better home run hitter - Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa?
You can also check my post #1679 on May 11.
I think that fwatson's post #1774 sums it up best. How much HP is really enough? Especially these days, as even "family" cars are getting close to the 300 mark. Not too long ago, 170hp would have been plenty. It seems the more we have, the more we want and our expectations grow very quickly.
I currently drive a 2000 Toyota Camry LE V6. It's nice car and the V6 is very smooth and powerful in my book. 194 hp is plenty for me, I don't even think I get to really use the full power potential for most of my "normal" driving. If I really tried to, I'd probably get a speeding ticket. I did choose the V6 over the 4 cyl because I did want the additional power and it was worth it to me for the price at that time. I also chose it because my previous car was a V6 with 200 HP, so I wanted to stick with the same amount of power to which I was accustomed. I now wonder if I would have even noticed the difference between the Camry 4 and 6 and if I could have saved some $$$$ and still have been content with my car's performance. I guess I'll never truly know about that ...
I admit that I was a bit surprised that the Millenia P was a V6 and only had 170hp, but it's a smaller engine than the one in my Camry, which is a 3.0, so it sort of makes sense. This may make the Millenia more fuel efficient, but I don't know about that. I think I get pretty decent gas mileage for a V6 car in my Camry. Would I really notice 20 fewer "horses" in my normal driving? Maybe not so much that I feel like I'm in a horse and buggy instead of a modern automobile. Would 40 extra HP be worth the price differential? For me, probably not. For my basic needs and expectations (not to mention budget), I'd probably be satisfied with the base Millenia at this time. But that's just my opinion, others may value the extra power that much more. And that's okay.
What always gets me when I read these boards and other editorial and consumer reviews is how often cars are criticized so harshly. Family cars are criticized for not being sporty. Reliable family cars are knocked for being "boring". There are so many labels and unfair expectations when it comes to evaluating vehicles.
Different types of cars have different purposes. They are what they are. It's unwise to expect a family car to drive, look and behave like a Corvette or a Porsche. If you want that level of sportiness, then you should look to that type of vehicle and not to the mainstream family class of vehicles. Sometimes I think people look at a basically good vehicle and find reasons to downrate it. That's sad but I guess we can just take various opinions for what they're worth and form our own. It's great that we have the freedom to voice them.
I have admired the Millenia for a long time. I think it is a great combination of a luxury and sport. It has beautiful sharp styling that is elegant with a bit of a sporty edge. It's a nice combination and a great looking car. And it seems to be very reliable. That rates it pretty high in my book. One vehicle cannot be all things to all people, but the Millenia has most of the attributes I would want in my next car.
I was really disappointed to learn that this is the last year for the MM. The upcoming Mazda 6 sounds very promising, but it seems like a replacement just for the 626 and not for the Millenia as well. I understand the philosophy behind the new name, but I prefer actual names for cars instead of numbers and letters. Millenia is a great name for a car, it's a shame to lose it. I'm still curious to see the new 6 when it arrives, though.
I received a test drive offer via email from Mazda. I plan to visit the dealership within the next week so I can see for myself how the Millenia operates. I may compare the S and the P, or I may just drive the P. I may even take the Protege for a spin while I'm there. It may be a bit too small for my tastes (I'm used to a midsize car and I like the smooth ride quality of my Camry), but I think it's a real sharp looking small car. As small cars go, it's quite striking and it has some great features.
I have no idea when I may trade for a new car, it depends on quite a few factors. I'm in no hurry. Either way, the Millenia is still on my radar screen and I think it is a very impressive car, in both the P and the S versions.
Sorry to go off on a rant here. LOL
Just my 2 cents. :-)
I have nothing major to add. I am just answering the matter you posed about fuel milage. The smaller V6 does not get appreciably different milage than the 3.0 in the Camry. My averages are 20 city, 27-28 highway with an overall average of just over 22. Very typical milage for a 3300 to 3400 pound car. That is almost exactly the range shown on the window sticker. The P and S get almost identical mileage if driven the same.
Edit: I just read the above post after making mine. Regarding the Bose. It is a fine sound system. However, the standard sound system in my 2001 P is also excellent. I was offered the Bose at a huge discount, and turned it down.
Overall though, I agree with silvercrown, it is a personnal opinion to be left up to the individual buying the car, BUT anyone interested should at least drive BOTH to see for themselves.
Anyway, I took him for drive in a P and he said, this is great, I'll take it. I suggested that he drive the S first so he did. After about 2 blocks, he said forget the P, this is the one he wants. I tried to remind him of his comment about things going wrong but he was already hooked by the smooth power.
So at 65, dad loves his S and mom has another Jetta.
I agree with you 100%.
I used to have 172HP Passat GLX - I test drove Millenia P and thought that's great. That'll do! But then, just out of curiosity, I drove the S... and got hooked on the power rush and sc whine. Because it was only 2K more at the time I decided to go for the S - I paid $26K even, it stickered at 32.5 - I'm sure you can get better deal now.
Another factor was that I thought S handled better and stayed completely flat in curves. Now I know (thanks to this forum) that there is a reason for it - it has rear antiroll bar.
So, that's my $0.02 . . . and to each his own! Let's be tolerant of different opinions, I'm sure Frank W wouldn't have paid 2K more for an S, and I respect that.
Tomek
In city traffic I get 21-22 consistently (was 20-21 in winter).
Tomek
Quote post 1778 fwatson1:"The P and S get almost identical mileage if driven the same."
I have a long way to go on my Michelin XM4V's (less than 6000 miles so far), but have also thought of going to an H tire when they are due for replacement. There really is no reason for a V rating on this type car as far as I can see, and the H would most likely be smoother and quieter than the V. I would do some research on tires before buying though. It's something you are stuck with for a couple of years anyway. That can be a long time with lousy tires.
I went ahead and changed all four tires then. I went up a size to 235/45/17. They fit on the stock rims without a problem and the are the exact same circumference as the original Dunlops, 820 revs per mile. I got the Kumho's from Just Tires. Nice looking tire with an aggressive tread pattern. The installed price including road hazard, was $496.00. They're W rated. I'm not sure if an installer will install H rated tires on a car that requires Z rated.
No car "requires" Z rated tires. Any properly sized tire can be installed on your car at your request. If they are the right size, it is your choice as to what to install on your own car.
Thanks, Greg
I had a 1995 L MM and when washed the engine bck in February the engine light came on.I left the car running for a good while to dry it out,but the light still was on.I'd turn off the engine & turn it bck on and the light was still on.
What I did was unplug my battery cable & waited
for a few minutes & plugged it bck up.The light was out & never came bck on again.I'm not sure what happened here.It might have reset something when I did that.
Someone else can on the board can answer this.
That's my experience.I hope it helps.
I'm considering buying a '97 Millenia S with 56,000 miles from a private seller. The research I've done indicates this is a pretty solid investment but I still have some hesitations. Can anyone comment about this car's reliability, especially in light of the fact that it will be discontinued? I'm also worried about high maintenance costs down the road, especially with the Miller Cycle engine, which seems to be not as common as other engine-types.
I appreciate the advice!!
Mugz
I purchased my '97 Millenia S off-lease with 39,000 miles on it. It now has about 64k miles and I still love it. Problems I've had: interior lighting got intermittent, turned out to be a sticky door switch ... took it out and cleaned it and that fixed that. Engine runs great ... lots of acceleration power at highway speeds. You'll have to get used to the auto-shift points when the engine is cold. The engine will tach to 3500+ before shifting out of second which drives me nuts. The solution, just press the Hold button on the shifter when you want it to shift, when it does, release the Hold button. After aboutd 4 - 5 minutes, it will shift normally.
I love the Bose stereo. I'm in the audio business and this one sounds great ... not all hyped up in the low end like most these days.
Current problem: Lazy tilt-away steering wheel. The motor in it seems to be very sluggish and sometimes doesn't work at all.
Overall, it has been a great car and I plan to keep it for several more years. Good luck.
Steve
Also should i put premium gas in it or does it really matter? What kind of Oil is best for it? Thanks in advance
The SE is beautiful, but I don't envy keeping that shiny black paint looking good.
A couple of notes to help you get off to a good start. You have already stated your acceptance of the 170 HP, and I too find it plenty. The other thing is that the transmission shifts much differently than those GM cars. GM has the smoothness down pat, but expect some shifting in the Millenia when you are not expecting it. At least until you become accustomed to it. This is completely normal from my experience, and from many posts and tests I have read. It is apparently harmless, as Millenia does enjoy a huge reliability advantage over those GM's you have had. And if you park the MM next to a GM and compare fit, finish and overall quality, it is no contest in favor of the MM.
My other car is a '95 Olds 88. It has been always garaged, and had excellent care. But has had MANY problems. Comparing it's assembly to my MM startles me at times.
Enjoy your new SE. You got a great car, at an excellent price (compared to CamCords etc)and the MM is in a class above those.
I have run 87 octane in my P since new, except for one tank of 89 and one of 93 (original dealer fill). I see absolutely no difference in either performance or fuel milage. I think you will get the same results.
I bought an adjustable oil filter removing tool from Discount Auto Parts that has a 3/8 inch square hole for a ratchet. That along with an 8 inch extension makes filter removal downright easy. It also fits the slightly larger filter on my Oldsmobile. Sorry, I threw the package away, and don't see a name on the tool. It is black, has a lightweight spring across the inside, and on the back says "Made in USA--Caution Wear Gloves". I also installed a Fram SureDrain valve in place of the oil drain plug. You will be amazed at how easy these two tools make an oil change. I use a high quality floor jack under the left front wishbone to raise the car enough to comfortably reach the filter and drain valve.
My experience with the Toyota dealers was that they are arrogant. They simply couldn't believe I had the nerve to try to pay less than MSRP for their product. Toyota also has a nasty habit of making you buy $3000 worth of unwanted add-on's to get a 30 dollar option you want. No thanks.
I purchased an '02 P model yesterday (color: two-toned pearl white/sand) and I love it! However, there is a problem with glare of the rear "dash" (for lack of a better word to call it) in the rear window, which is kind of aggravating. Does anyone recall the solution to the problem from the previous posts? Or, is there a solution? Any suggestions?