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ray_h71, in the early 80's when FWD were not yet popular, I read an article about toyota switching to FWD due to the following reasons.
1. Eliminate parasitic loss of propeller shaft (you see it is not negligible in their book). There was a time when Corolla had both FWD and RWD models and the FWD had better acceleration and better fuel economy.
2. The car can be configured to maximize interior space.
About displacement and off the line pick up, the specs only tells you the peak numbers, not the actiual torque between 1500-3000 RPM which is used when starting off from 0-30 mph.
Regarding drive-by-wire, Isuzu Rodeo started using it in 2000 and one owner who bought that model after driving a '98 model specifically blamed the drive-by-wire for the less than exciting throttle response, it took away the fun factor and the aggressive throttle feel.
About extra gear of c240, that is a non-issue when talking about 0-60 mph acceleration because all these cars when pushed hard will reach 60 mph in 3rd gear.
22181 miles Replace Heater Blower Motor.
29741 miles Side Impact Air Bag Wire Harness
Routing Recall
29741 Replace Plugs And Wires
35063 Remove and Replace Radio
37806 Replaced Belt Tensioner
41082 Replace Left Front Wheel Bearing
41082 Timing Belt Off 1 Tooth on Exhaust
Retime Engine.
41840 Replace Right Front Wheel Bearing
41840 Replace Alternator
Other than that I love the car
Thanks Hyundai for such a Great Warranty.
Last guy: Isolated problem. I have had the wiring harness replaced. Took 20 minutes. Had them put new chip in for 02 sensor, that was 20 minutes.
Had them replace a timing belt at 57,599 (engine light came on) for Free, it slipped and was wearing prematurely.
But, I had a 200sx, 97, burned up igniton coil, starter messed up, fried spark plugs, and a few other problems. SOld it at 66K(Nissan) 2 years ago for Tibby(No Problems with it, 62K in 2 years).
My car's a gls-v6 sonata, 1999, with nearly 98K on it in under 4 years. It's still running, and Never(knock on wood) left me stranded like my last Nissan (200sx) did, in 20 degree weather yet.
No Free repairs there... engine warranty ran out at 60K, unlike Hyundai's 100K.
Service is also part of the ownership experience, and I am Very Happy.
The car is great. Like it.
Have a good weekend guys.
Carsdirect.com price for the base in my zip code is currently $14,166 (with auto). This is $1,500 below the factory invoice of $15,566, less $1,000 rebate is $500 below factory invoice. So you should be able to get your car for $700 less than the deal you presented (this may be different for your zip code -- check carsdirect.com.)
I have never purchased a car from carsdirect as I have always been able to get a better deal. However, I have a friend that has used them and he has been happy with the purchase.
Hope this helps.
Thanks!
*My dad bought a new 1960 Dodge when I was in high school. That car's rear end whined louder than my Sonata at any steady speed above 40 mph from day one. The dealer tried several times to adjust the noise out, but with only very limited results. Dad put over 270,000 miles over 15 years on that car with no rear end problems other than the noise. The noise, while quite apparent, never increased in volume during the time he owned it.
1. What's the difference between Model STD and Model GLS?
2. When I drove it on highway with speed 70mph (cruise control on), the tach is only 2.7k rpm. Is that normal?
3. The manual in glove box seems to be soaked, so the car could be once under water. But how can I tell that from car itself?
Please let me know your comments. Thanks!
2> Yep, that's about right for the I4. My '96 Accord I4 turned over around 2700 rpm at 70 mph, too. My '03 Sonata V6 turns less than 2500 rpm at that speed. Rented a 2000 Buick (supercharged 3.8 liter V6) that loafed at 1900 rpm at that vehicle speed once.
3> A soaked owner's manual proves nothing other than it got wet. The original owner could have had it in the house just after he bought the car to familiarize himself with it the first night and maybe the dog pee'd on it when he got up to get a beer. Maybe he dropped it in a puddle while checking the fluid capacity or tire pressure recommendations while working on the car. Who knows? If you want to get an idea if the car was dunked, have the car hoisted on a lift and look around carefully underneath. You should get an idea that way with input from a mechanic who's familiar with how a car with that mileage would typically look. Also how does the carpet and upholstery look? The trunk? The engine compartment?
As I have posted before, I helped my stepson buy a 2003 base Sonata (auto) for $11,988 after rebates. I'm still amazed every time I see the car -- it looks like $20,000+ easy!
For the tach, I have a friend whose '95 Altima I4 (2.4 liter, I guess) turned over around 3500 rpm at 70 mph. So which one is more efficient?
Why a V6 engine turns less than 2500 rpm at that speed?
So tach meter suddently drops means shifting up, is that right? Why?
Sorry I ask so many simple questions. I used to drive '91 Toyota Camry, which has no tach meter.
In the Hyundai Sonata, there have been different ratios for the I4 and V6 engines. And different ratios between cars with automatic and manual transmissions. Check out the February 2003 issue of Car & Driver. 10-sedan comparison test.
Kia Optima LX I4 5-speed manual, 3.88 final drive:
1st 3.46 x 3.88 = 13.42 overall ratio
2nd 1.95 x 3.88 = 7.57
3rd 1.30 x 3.88 = 5.04
4th 0.94 x 3.88 = 3.65
5th 0.78 x 3.88 = 3.03
Notice that 4th and 5th are overdrive.
Hyundai Sonata GLS V6 automatic, 3.77 final drive:
1st 2.84 x 3.77 = 10.71 overall ratio
2nd 1.53 x 3.77 = 5.77
3rd 1.00 x 3.77 = 3.77
4th 0.71 x 3.77 = 2.68
Only 4th is overdrive. [The final drive for V6 automatics had been 3.358 in MY 1999 & 2000, and was 3.770 for I4 automatics. Don't remember which MY they changed final drives.]
Here are the numbers for my 2000 Sonata GLS V6 with 5-speed manual (the same as the Kia I4 above):
1st 3.455 x 3.88 = 13.41 overall ratio
2nd 1.947 x 3.88 = 7.56
3rd 1.296 x 3.88 = 5.03
4th 0.943 x 3.88 = 3.66
5th 0.775 x 3.88 = 3.01
Again, both 4th and 5th are overdrive. I wish 4th was direct drive (1.00), and wish 5th was numerically lower for better highway fuel economy and more relaxed (i.e., lower RPM) high speed cruising.
Which one is the better buy? I know the engine is the same for both car. Have anyone drive the two of them?
Thanks for the advice.
A Sonata was priced at 15K.]
A Mazda 626 was priced at 14K
2 Optimas were priced at 12K.
This is from memory, but I think accurate. The Hyundai price was almost rediculously high but they must know what they're doing. That kind of resale certainly negates the horror story auction guys that are always knocking the brand.
Therefore if I could get a real good deal on an Optima I'd opt for that. That means that the additional depreciation would have to be figured in, however. I've driven both. In 2001, Optimas had 70 series Kumho or Hankook tires on the base cars and Sonatas had 60 series Michelins. I had the same Michelins on my Elantra and they only lasted 40,000 miles so the Kumhos might have been a better deal. Still, the Hyundais were slightly higher in amenities for not any more money. I think both cars now have the same rubber.
The restyled Optima front end is a bit bizarre-- I believe C&D called it "Hannibal Lechter" ish. Other than resale, I think it's largely pickum. I notice that the local Kia dealer has a lot of left over 02's-- new or with about 10,000 miles. If I was looking I'd probably try to get one of those--cheap!
The two makes' current respective sales brochures list 15"/65 series Michelins on the base Sonata, and 16"/60 series Michelins on the GLS and XL models. All Optimas are listed with 15"/65 series rubber. The tire brand is unspecified on the 4-cyl Optima LX (Kumho or Hankook?), but Michelin on the V6 LX and SE. Of course, equipment and features are always subject to change without incurring obligation to prior buyers yadayadayada...
And, actually, the first really damn annoying thing has happened to my car.
The sunroof sunshade has started to vibrate. Driving, idling, smooth highway or rough road, I get a varied, deep melodious BUZZZZZZ, varying in tone and intensity depending on circumstances, from the sunroof sunshade which is about to drive me into murderous insanity.
So, for now, I drive with my right hand pressing up on the sunshade: keeps the BUZZZZZZ silent.
I cannot, however, live with this forever!!!!
AIIIIGH!
Given how much hybrids have advanced, the current economy, and eliminating dependence upon Arab oil (via their actions, after all, it's pretty clear they just don't like us - so why do business with them?), I was wondering if posters here would be interested in trying to encourage Hyundai to make a decent little hybrid (a real hybrid, not just one of those "engine shutoff" scams).
Despite my car's BUZZZZZZ, the engine has been wonderful for nearly 50K miles now . . . and frankly I think Hyundai is perfectly capable of offering us a Sonata or Elantra with all the creature comforts, a bit of acclerator "oopmh," AND the 45 - 55 MPG the other hybrids are getting.
I thought I'd bring this up because I recently participated in a long-term consumer survey (I don't think I can tell you who did the survey - but it was with a big stats firm) and I was sorta surprised at the general support the hybrid concept is getting.
I'll be the first to publically admit, if I could trade my 2000 GLS on a 2005 LX with a hybrid engine and get, say 45 mpg and similar performance . . . I'd do it because it's good for me, my pocketbook, the country, and the environment.
Any takers on this?
Perhaps they'll listen???
Hyundai Motor America
ATTN: Consumer Relations
RE: Hybrid Vehicles
10550 Talbert Avenue
Fountain Valley, CA 92728
- a 1989 Sonata - horrible, wonky transmission which was repaired under warrantee but the car drove poorly - it was a freeby from work
-1994 Excel - flawless, trouble free car. Last of the old model. Was basically a Mitsu Precis. Nice little motor.
1998 Elantra - another flawless car. Superb ride and handling for the money. Better driving dynamics than the Corolla we replaced it with although the Toyota is more refined.
I recently drove a 2003 Mitsu Galant rental - nice car. Is this car in any way related to the current Sonata/Optima (Magentis in Canada). The one I drove had a 2.4L I4.
I waited 2 weeks for my order then finally decided to start asking questions.
They wont answer any of there phones and I never got a e-mail reply either.
I checked with the BBB, and found that previous complaints have been made this month.
I guess I just learned a valuable lesson
1) I've heard that the Accent and Elantra are up for a makeover before the Sonata. Actually, a smaller-than-Santa Fe SUV (another, ugh) based on the new Elantra is due for '05, which supports this opinion. I WISH the Sonata was all-new for '05. I'd wait for sure. The only new thing coming for '04 is the Kia Amanti (an extended XG350). Let me know if you know more for sure (not speculation).
2) Sonatabean: Granted they are vastly different vehicles, but my '98 Malibu has the same moonroof shade vibration problem. I've found that opening the shade 1/4-1/2" solves my problem. At least give it a try.
3) XG350 vs. Sonata. Where do you come up with a relationship between the two? The XG is NOT based on the Sonata. The XG is only slightly larger, but is a tank on the scales vs. the Sonata. They're COMPLETELY different platforms. This doesn't bode well for the 3.5 litre fitting in the current Sonata. It does fit in the '03 1/2 Santa Fe, but that's a much taller vehicle. But, I'll bet we see a much more powerful engine in the next Sonata (with a hefty price increase to boot).
4) Sonata vs. Optima. At least here in West Palm Beach, we have a brand-new state-of-the-art Hyundai dealership facility, but Kia still operates out of a "shack on the highway". My next-door-neighbor has an '03 Sedona minivan and hasn't stopped complaining about poor service at the Kia dealer. I've heard complaints about Hyundai dealer service incompetence as well, but not like that. Just something to consider.
Beginning to think I'll stick with GM.
Your comment about the XG350 (or whatever domestic name it's distributed as in Korea) being the "national" limo is correct. But, not as a totally exclusive entity in its present form. When the Hyundai group decided to get serious about world distribution of its automotive products, it was wise enough to realize that maximum usage of a few platforms would minimize its research, development, and production costs. When the current Sonata and XG350 were in the design stage, the engineers were instructed to share a common platform - essentially the floor pan and lower chassis parts - as much as possible. Everything above the door sills was fair game for alteration (well nearly so - eyeballing the windshield suggests the two cars may also share that piece perhaps). They're obviously not "siblings" as the Optima and Sonata are, but, "1st cousins" might be an appropriate description. The Sonata/Optima are at least as related to the XG350 as the Lincoln LS is to the Jaguar S-type. (Shoot the Lincoln LS shares its platform, modified, with the Thunderbird, too! That's really a stretch to contemplate.) And, like those two marques' obviously different styling, the XG350's stylists were free to pursue product indiviuality - even to frameless side door glass as you pointed out. (merely required a modified C-pillar, modified front and rear door configurations, and a roofline modification - not as big an engineering consideration as it might seem) I had occasion when I had my Sonata in to have the dome light assembly replaced under warranty, to stroll through the dealer's new car lot. A salesman was showing the two cars, side by side, to a customer with the hoods of both open. There was a startling similarity of the two engine bays' inner sheet metal structure. I wouldn't want to bet against the possibility that the 3.5 liter engine and five speed automatic transaxle fitting into the Sonata. But that might not even by necessary. Hyundai really hasn't exhausted (shoot, they haven't begun...) development of the "Delta" small block V6 tweaks. I have a feeling that motor could be bored and stroked easily to 3 liters; continuously variable valve timing and lift is another option just a head re-design away, etc. The motor's got a strong bottom end (quad-bolted mains with a stiff cast aluminum lower bearing bridge and further stiffening in the form of an aluminum crankcase casting bolted to the block extending below the crankshaft centerline - in effect making it a "Y" block.) as if the engineers anticipated further development that would stress the lower end.
It was never my intention to cheapen the XG350 in anyone's eyes. It deserves the respect of a luxo-cruiser it earned in its owenrs' eyes. The next generation model (which the car mags say the platform will be shared with the upcoming 2004 Kia "Amanti", will be larger (and presumably heavier) yet. A picture of the Amanti in "Car Preview" magazine shows conventional framed side window glass. I have no idea whether this car (and the next generation XG350) represents an etirely new platform that will no longer be shared with the Sonata/Optima lines.
I'm looking forward, too, to see the 2004 Sonatas. My bet is this far into its production cycle there won't be anything other than standard feature updates, but...
Given the incredible popularity (at least with the sufficiently $$$ customers) of the Hybrid Toyota Prius and the Honda Civic in my incredibly boring midwest city (Columbus, Ohio), I did write Hyundai America about the combustion (gas or diesel)/electric hybrid design because, despite what the American manufacturers keep saying over and over and over again, people do want hybrids.
I reached this conclusion after participating in a major consumer study from a very, very, very reputable marketer who was examing exactly what consumers want out of vehicles down the road (part of my agreement was not telling who did the study - so I won't). I was frankly surprised to hear that the vast majority of people in the study would (like me) be willing to pay more for a hybrid if (1) there was no loss in power or performance and (2) there was sufficiently better MPG to offset the exense.
Given Hyundai's leaps in qualiy (first in 1997/1998 and then again in 2002/2003), I honestly think that an Elantra/Sonata hybrid (or even a whole line of hybrids spanning Elantra, Sonata, and XG) would serve Hyundia, the consumers, and the nation well.
After all, it's not like (1) the Earth is growing more oil, (1) Saudi business practices are growing more ethical, or (3) the air, soil and water are growing cleaner and healthier on their own. As an American, I frankly think it's my obligation to consume wisely for the betterment of my country.
That said, I'm still a sufficiently self-absorbed SOB to want my auto-air, leather power seats, and "oomph" under the accelerator pedal.
Well - Honda and Toyota already have their hybrids out and are expanding hybrids into the luxury market for 2004 and 2005 - so why not Hyundai? It would be good for us, for the country, for the economy . . . and naturally for Hyundai, too.
Besides - the R & D would be much lower now: there are two damn good platforms they could study for ideas on how to implement hybrid power on their own cars.
In short: I want my next car to be a zippy, hybrid-powered, 4-cylinder Sonata LX.
Am I asking too much???
After all, to some degree, we're all victims of a stupid US petroleum and environmental policy, right???
I would like to hear from your experience on this car, especially the problems.
I am also considering Mazda 626 2002 or Sonata 2002, they are about the same used price level. which one do you think it's better?
Thanks for the advice.
Compare the features of the 626 and the sonata.
The Sonatas come loaded, and I also like the styling of the sonata more then the 626.
tahugoreng, since the disaster days of 1998* and earlier, Hyundai's QC has come up dramatically. A 2002 sonata would likely be a sound purchase, but, unless the seller is an in-house parent or offspring family member, you will not get the remainder of the 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty - just whatever's left of the basic 36,000 mile warranty.
*Only a bit over 90,000 Hyundai cars sold in the U.S. that year. For 2003, the company's closing in on over 400,000 sales in the U.S. The name "Hyundai" may still invoke derision among some, but the steadily climbing sales figures show that where the buck leaves the wallet, the naysayers are increasingly being ignored.
Re: "My new Sonata GLS"
redzx3, it's always good to hear from a happy Sonata owner. They are nicely styled cars with pleasingly integrated styling references to the premium marques you referenced. But isn't suggesting plastering a Mercedes-Benz price sticker on your car a little over the top? Kinda like publically flaunting a fake Rolex...