BMW European Delivery

kyfdx · January 2005

I agree.. I've heard of extensions to 90 days before.. but, I think that might be the maximum... They have a 16% VAT.. They won't let you get out of paying that, for anything longer... Maybe if you were military or a diplomat..

skobola · January 2005

I have already asked the authorities over there, and it is possible to have a US-originated car as a US citizen, which I am, and driving it on US tags. In addition, tagging the car for me would be pretty easy as Florida, where I reside, does not require inspection for tag extension nor anything else; actually the tag can be renewed through the web by paying with the credit card. The only thing is that in Europe they boost up the insurance price a little bit for vehicles from foreign countries, but that could be easily offset by lover price of the car and actually paying about $30 for the tag instead of their high tag prices. So, provided all the above, who will be forcing me to take the car back? Is it BMW or someone else? I am pretty sure that I could buy an ED BMW in Munich, ship it here, tag it, and then ship it back there, the same as I could for any BMW or any car that is bought here. But, this is actually what I would like to avoid and without all that, the deal could be pretty sweet, that is, paying for the shipping to Europe (around $700) and having the car on ships for almost 2 months (to US and back to Europe).

Thanks in advance.

markjenn · January 2005

Well, if you think you're sure the paperwork is Okay and the numbers work, go for it. But color me EXTREMELY SKEPTICAL that: 1) the Germans are Okay with you legally driving 18+ months with US-spec car with Florida plates; and 2) that it really makes economic sense.

Good luck,

- Mark

kyfdx · January 2005

Warning: All supposition on my part..

1) Even though you don't have to physically have your car inspected in Florida to renew registration, etc.... I'm betting the US BMW dealer has to provide a lot of documentation to get the original title.. Documentation that they probably won't file unless they actually have the car.. I think this would be your biggest obstacle.

2) If you could "show" that the car went to the US, and you could get Florida plates and registration, you could probably pull this off.

3) If you can't... I don't think you could keep the car in Europe indefinitely without paying the 16% VAT.

4) You will still incur some kind of expense at the end... After a certain period of time, BMW isn't going to pay to ship your car to the U.S.

In your scenario, it supposedly already happened. And, if the car is registered in the U.S., how much would it cost to sell it in Europe.. Seems like there might be a lot of import duties, etc..

Just thinking out loud.... It sounds good in theory, but it seems like a lot of jumping through hoops to maybe save a few thousand dollars.

regards,

kyfdx

shipo · January 2005

When I did my ED trip three years ago I had to sign some paperwork that stated that I would agree to export the car within a certain period of time (I cannot remember exactly what that was, however, it was 6 months or less), or else I would agree to pay a huge VAT type of tax (something like 30% of the price of the car). That said, simply exporting the car to the U.S.A. and then re-importing it to Germany will get around this issue.

Best Regards,

Shipo

skobola · January 2005

Thank you for all of your elaborations. As shipo said it, it seems that it would be the easiest to simply buy it over there, bring it over here in the US to tag it, and then take it over there, just to have it as a properly tagged US car. I understand that if the car will be sold over there, there will be customs, VATs, or whatever they call all those duties that they attach, depending on the country in which the car will be sold...

Thanks.

hgeyer · January 2005

I looked up my paperwork (2001 ED) and there was a stipulation that I would be liable for VAT if the car didn't leave the country after 6 months.

spfotey · January 2005

anybody know when you can start going to europe for the new 3 series??

we will be over there this summer and i am looking seriously at the new 3, so...

planoml · January 2005

You should be able to get an ED this summer.

jb_shin · January 2005

Assuming their laws have not changed since I left Germany in March of 04, here is what I know:

1. You can keep ED car for up to 1 year, but after 1 year, you will have to pay the VAT.

2. After 90 days, you will have to pay German road tax, which is fairly inexpensive, I think it was less than couple of hundred Euros.

3. Insurance on non-Euro spec car is not bad (but on tourist tag which is what the ED tag is, it is about 4 to 5 times the normal amount). Also, I have "heard" that in case you have to make a claim, insurance companies sometimes will short change you on the claim.

Still, it is doable, the question is if it will be convenient. I did run into a guy from Florida who brought his Integra and drove it on his US tag for about a year in Munich. I suppose that is slightly different, but........

skobola · January 2005

Thanks everyone for sharing. I will not be in Germany, and the country in which I will be does not have any problems in me driving the car on US tags. I heard that the insurance will be higher than on the Europe-made/bought BMW, but I have not yet found anything for real as the work deal is still not fully defined... And neither I know how long I will be there... However, if it happens, I know that I would not like to get a Bimmer made for European market as I may likely decide to bring that Bimmer back to the States when I am done.

khoon · February 2005

Sorry to ask a redundant question folks - but, where can I find ED invoice pricing for a 530i.

I've been offered 3K off the ED MSRP by a dealer - that would be quite a discount!! Is that within the normal discount range?

kyfdx · February 2005

ED base MSRP on a 530i is $3160 less than US

ED invoice is $3055 less than US price..

All options have the same price, ED or US.. All of the savings is in the base price..

$3K off ED MSRP is a great deal.. Probably $800-$1400 over ED invoice, depending on how well-optioned the car is...

regards,

kyfdx

khoon · February 2005

Appreciate your patience with us newbies!

Say, would any of you have any information on the new 530Xi? I'm looking for expected price and availability for ED.

pjt · February 2005

kyfdx:

You are a wealth of information, and I appreciate your intelligent, informed perspective. As I've proceeded with the buying process, I'm being told that '05 model production (3-series) is winding down. I'm specifically interested in the 330Ci convertible; when will BMW transition from 2005 to 2006 model production, and is it too late to get under the wire for an '05? I've investigated ED, but just learned that travel reservations must be made at least 2 months in advance to take advantge of free travel for BOTH buyer and companion. The 2-for-1 deal extends beyond 3/27/2005, but it's a moot point if they're not taking new orders for 2005's. Anyway, this morning I had a dealer tell me that it's too late for ED on a 2005. Is this accurate, or is he simply trying to move me into existing inventory? Finally, is the new E90 being introduced as a sedan first (2006 model), and then the coupe and convertible later (as 2007 models)? Thanks for enlightening the uninformed. Regards, pjt

kyfdx · February 2005

The coupes and convertibles aren't changing... Perhaps your dealer wasn't listening, and didn't realize you were talking about a convertible..

I guess it is possible that they are changing over the entire model line to '06s in the Spring.. but, I haven't heard that... I just assumed that the '06 coupes and convertibles would stay with the traditional Fall debut...

And, yes.. '07 model year for the new coupes and convertibles... If it does happen that you have to do an '06 convertible, I doubt there would be much of a price differential from the '05... and if you are buying, you'd make it up on resale, by having a year newer car..

regards,

kyfdx

307web · February 2005

You would a year newer car with higher than expected mileage for it's year (due to additional months of driving), which would then be subtracted from the resale.

307web · February 2005

How far in advance is the minimum amount of time needed to initiate the ED process?

I might be postponing my vehicle purchase until 2006 or 2007, but there is a possibilty I could buy or lease this summer and use the ED program since I'll be in Europe anyway.

Since the plane tickets are already purchased, I won't benefit from any ED plane ticket discounts.

I'll be looking at X3, E90 sedan or E46 coupe.

shipo · February 2005

Three years ago I negotiated my 530i deal in late February, and took delivery in mid April. It's all a matter of when a car and an ED slot become available. Needless to say, summer slots are the first to go. Since your tickets are already purchased, try a couple of different dealerships, you might find one that is able to secure a slot during your trip. My dealership "Swapped" a car that they had on order for inventory for a later car allocated for an ED slot, getting me into the left seat (in Germany) in something less than 7 weeks.

Let us know how you make out.

Best Regards,

Shipo

selm · February 2005

Can the $1000 Membership Reward with BMWCCA be combined with ED?

kyfdx · February 2005

According to this.. yes..

http://bmwcca.org/PDFs/Form-MembershipReward.pdf

burry · February 2005

What's up with eurobuyers.com ?

kyfdx · February 2005

He is a broker.. really doesn't have anything specific to do with Euro Delivery...

burry · February 2005

The reason I was asking is because I was told that the eurobuyers site had the lower European Invoice pricing compared against the US invoice pricing. I heard there was a substantial difference that could be used to negotiate on the European Delivery price if the US dealer was willing. I know the E90 prices have not surfaced yet but do you know when I can find such comparisons for 2005 models?

kyfdx · February 2005

I've seen them on other forums.. but, we aren't allowed to link to those here..

What '05 models are you interested in?

burry · February 2005

I am interested in the E90 330i. The reason I mentioned 2005 prices was just for some kind of comparison i.e. difference between European and US Invoice Pricing since the 2006 pricing is not yet available. Also, I stopped by 2 BMW dealerships over the weekend and neither of them seemed to know much about the European Invoice Pricing. Perhaps they just didn't want to discuss it. Thanks again for all your responses.

kyfdx · February 2005

Well, just as a point of reference..

On an '05 325i...

The difference between the US base MSRP and the ED base MSRP is $2050. The difference in invoice price is $2030.

All other option prices are exactly the same, either way, so the total difference is in the base prices...

The differences in higher priced models..(330i, 530i, etc.) are proportionally higher.. For instance, an '05 330i has a spread of $2500 at the MSRP level.

regards,
kyfdx

vsaxena · March 2005

YES

tham · March 2005

What are the cities where one can drop off a BWM purchased through the ED program? I assume pickup is always at Munich. (Can't find dropoff information on the BMW web site.)
Thanks

shipo · March 2005

Per the BMWUSA.com web site:

Austria:
- Vienna

Belgium:
- Antwerp

England:
- London

France:
- Nice
- Paris (See note 1)

Germany:
- Bremerhaven
- Cologne
- Frankfurt
- Hamburg
- Munich
- Sindelfingen (Stuttgart)

Italy: (See note 2)
- Bologna
- Florence
- Genoa
- Milano
- Naples
- Rome
- Venice
- Verona

Netherlands:
- Amsterdam

Spain:
- Madrid

Switzerland:
- Geneva
- Zurich

Note 1: It is mandatory that the Paris Office be notified at least 4 days in advance of drop off. This can be done by email or phone.

Note 2: Vehicle drop-off at the listed cities, must be arranged with E. H. Harms, Munich office at least 1 week prior to the intended drop-off. Once you drop off your vehicle, it will be driven to Munich (Germany) for truck transfer to port of departure. Car registration and insurance must be valid for at least 5 days after date of drop-off in Italy.

Best Regards,
Shipo

danielg · March 2005

I'm staying in Europe now and I have seen a few of the new 3 series around town. The BMW official ED site does not show the new 3 series as available for sale in the US yet. The official launch date was March 5 here. Does anybody know if registration for ED is available for the new 3 series yet, and what dealers do it. I really dont care what state in the US I will be picking the new Bimmer up, I'm just interested in the best overall deal. On the same note, a virtual dealer or broker may be better if one exists. Are there virtual dealers or brokers that deal with European Delivery? Who are they or where can they be found? Does anybody know?

planoml · March 2005

Shipo,

On note #2, it states "will be driven to Munich." I thought this was for Italy only. If that's the case for everyone, I'm changing my plans for the drop-off in Munich. I was planning on a drop off in Paris or Zurich. Thanks.

shipo · March 2005

Errr, isn't that what I wrote? Hmmm, time to click on "Recent Messages" and check...

Yup, right after "Italy" in parentheses I wrote, "See note 2".

Regarding Paris, "See note 1". ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

planoml · March 2005

I'm going back for a refund to my eye doc that said I had 20/20. Sorry for the runaround.

shipo · March 2005

No harm, no foul! ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

cpeterson3 · March 2005

Sorry for the novice question but does ED also benefit leasees? I realize the starting point of the cost is less but considering the current lease programs on the '05 5 series, can ED even beat those programs?

or is ED rally for purchases only?

thanks!!!!!!

shipo · March 2005

I leased my 2002 ED 530i, and found it to be an extremely good deal. My car, which had a domestic MSRP of just over $48K came out to a no money down monthly price of $558 for 36K/36mo lease, including the now extinct Luxury Tax and NJ sales tax.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx · March 2005

You enjoy the same savings on a lease... There are a couple of differences..

1) The money factor is .0003 higher

2) You have one lease payment waived.. Ostensibly to make up for the lack of use, while the car is being shipped to the US.

I also think #1 is there to help pay for #2.

regards,
kyfdx

cpeterson3 · March 2005

Thanks KYFDX.

I am using your expertise on multiple forums. I appreciate your help and please hang in there for a bit more. I'll be in the EU in May/June.

1) how do I find the MSRPs of the ED cars?

2) what about the shipping costs? how does that work? Is it part of the MSRP? is it added back?

Please explain the process as far as your patience can take you!!

thanks again!!

shipo · March 2005

You might want to get the full spiel straight from the horses' mouth:

http://www.bmwusa.com/bmwexperience/EuropeanDelivery/

Best Regards,
Shipo

cpeterson3 · March 2005

OK... a bit embarassing that I found that after doing a bit more research on their site.

I'll pose a few questions that I could not find:

1) can I negotiate a better selling price or are the ED MSRP ($42,220 for the 5301) set in stone?

2) is the ocean freight included in the selling price or additional?

3) can this be done in 1 day... can I arrive at the Munich delivery center, go through the motions, sign the paperwork and leave? I don't want to drive the car. Can I just turn around and fly-out the same day on my way to another country for vacation and have the car shipped or is there a mandatory time for which you must take constructive receipt of the car while in the EU?

I appreciate your input and patience.

shipo · March 2005

Okay, point by point then:

1) Yes you can negotiate a price below ED MSRP, I did it with my 530i, and I plan on doing it again for its replacement, an E90 330i. In my case, I used the BMWUSA.com web site to find every dealer within 25 miles of my (then) house in New Jersey. As my closest dealership, the one where I lease my (then) 1999 328i from had declined to go below ED MSRP, I called the next one (a whopping 3 miles further away), and offered $1,500 over ED invoice. He asked me if I was ready to do a deal, so I signed the paperwork an hour later. ;-)

2) Just as the freight is included in a domestically sourced car, it is also included in the ED price.

3) Errr, yes but. When you consider the arrival time of flights from North America into the Munich airport, the best that you can usually hope for is late morning. Given that the ED Center closes at something like 3:00 (or at least I think it did three years ago), you will need to take a taxi to the ED center, where you will arrive a little before noon.

Figure on no more than two hours at the ED Center to do all of the paperwork (usually more like an hour and a half but on a busy day it can run longer), and then you are on your way. By that I mean that YOU must drive the car to E.H. Harms, which if I remember is no more than 10 to 15 kilometers away, and assuming that you don't get lost, you should be able to make the drive in less than a half of an hour.

Once at Harms, you need to remove your front license plate and your first aid kit (not FDA approved and WILL be confiscated), and some folks have found that the emergency triangle that comes with ED only cars also goes missing before the car reaches your local dealership, so you might want to take that as well. Once inside their office, and assuming you don't have somebody else there before you, you should be able to do all of that paperwork in well under an hour. The folks at Harms will call you a taxi so that you can be driven back to the airport, which you will probably not reach before 5:00 pm. Me, I wouldn't even bother booking an outbound flight before 6:00 or even 7:00 unless you get a flight that arrives earlier in the morning.

Speaking of which, when I went in 2002, there were no direct to Munich flights to be had from the NYC area, I just checked Expedia and found that Lufthansa has a direct from Boston that arrives at 8:10 AM, United has a flight from Dulles that arrives at 8:00 and another from Chicago O'Hare that arrives at 8:20, and Northwest has a connection with KLM through Amsterdam from Minneapolis, Detroit or Boston that arrives in Munich at 9:20. So, you can get there earlier if you plan for it.

Best Regards,
Shipo

markjenn · March 2005

cpeterson, I'd be sure to run the economics of whether ED makes any sense if you're not going to drive the car in Europe.

Keep in mind that you need to pay for the car 30-days before delivery in Europe, and you probably aren't going to see the car back in the US until about six-weeks or so after you drop it off. Factor in a little fudge factor and you'll probably find you're going to make 2 or even 3 payments before you have your car. That may be $1000-$1500 of cost right there, not including whatever expenses you incur for travel, meals, taxi, etc.

I'd also advise you to think carefully before committing yourself to some breakneck schedule to take delivery and ship the car on the same day. Between flight delays, traffic delays, getting lost, trying to get a meal or two, etc., it sounds like a way to generate gallons of stomach acid to me. I don't know how much experience you've had driving in Europe, but it's a whole different ball game and serious time pressure could easily cause an accident.

I'd fly in, get a hotel and a good meal, relax, and do the deal first thing the next morning. Munich is a wonderful place to spend a day (or a week) too.

- Mark

cpeterson3 · March 2005

Folks - I really appreciate the feedback..solid and honest.

The travel will be tricky but I'm ready for the challenge. I have been to Munich awhile back and as with most EU countries, find many of the roads in better shape with better signage. To the delay, if this whole saga works I intend to extend my current lease by 2 months - that should work.

I am on the all business class red-eye non-stop with Lufthansa out of Boston leaving on a Sunday afternoon at 4:30 and arriving Munich Monday morning just after 7. I figure I'll hit the great Senator Class Lounge on the way out for breakfast and take a cab to the delivery center hopefully to arrive around 9 so that should give me the time I need thru the day - dont you think?? I checked the calendar and that Monday is not a holiday nor is the Friday before so hopefully it would be that crazy at the delv. center.

My original connection out of Munich was on the 9 am to Athens but I am sure there are plenty of flights thru the day and if I do get stuck, I'll stay and take the Tuesday am flight.

I should have done this back in September when I was in France!!

Now two last questions to pricing:

1) is the invoice to MSRP spread the same in the EU as the states? Shipo - I'm ready to work the dealers to see who will come off of the ED MSRP but how do I know what the ED invoice pricing is?

2) by ordering the car now, I still can use the current .00125 MF plus the .0003 (.00155) and 63% residual?

thanks again to all!!! your expertise is priceless.

shipo · March 2005

Pricing questions:

1) Regarding the MSRP spread, unknown. Regarding the ED invoice, it used to be available on a few sites on the internet, however, they wised up and stopped publishing them. It seems to me that if you browse some of the other BMW forums, you might be able to dig that information up. When my turn comes again I'll just ask my dealer to give me the pricing, that worked last time (they didn't know that I already had the information).

2) I think that you lock in the leasing rates when you get approved for the lease, which should happen when you order your car. My memory may be a little faulty on this point though, you might want to contact BMW-FS.

Have a good trip. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

markjenn · March 2005

I think you can get extremely close to ED invoice pricing by simply taking US invoice pricing and subtracting the ED discount computed from MSRP deltas. I checked this a while back when ED invoices were being published and it was very, very close. I'd do this and offer $1K over and see what they say. For dealers interested in discounting ED (many don't want to bother), this should extract a competitive offer.

Oh, I think this has been mentioned, but unless the pricing has changed, there is no ED discount on options, just the basic car. This makes "strippers" a somewhat better ED value since your overall discount is a higher percentage. I wouldn't avoid an option I wanted for this reason, but if you're on the fence for something like nav or leather, it might tilt the balance to leaving the box unchecked.

Have fun.

- Mark

cpeterson3 · March 2005

Allright - I think I'm ready to start banging the phones. I like the idea of using the same factors for ED MSRP to Inv. as US to US.

If you go over to Mercedes Benz, they dont publish ED MRSP's, they just offer 7% off of US MSRP as the ED delivered price. coincidentally, 7% off of an E320 equates exactly to the US invoice price on Edmunds so I think working off the assumption of equal margins is solid.

BTW - I work with a German expat who is contacting friends back home to try and obtain the invoice pricing and will post if I get it.

thanks again!!

kyfdx · March 2005

1) The spread between ED MSRP and invoice is proportionally the same as the US price..

IOW, if ED MSRP is $2500 less, then the ED invoice is probably about $2300 less...

2) All of the price difference is in the base price... All option MSRP/invoice prices are the same, whether ED or US.

3) I think realistically, you'll have to spend the night.. And, you have to drop the car off at the shipping agent.. I don't think you can sign and then leave the car at BMW.

4) I think you only need to pay 15 days ahead now, instead of one month... and, BMW makes one of your payments for you... So, the time you are paying for your car without use is maybe only 30 days...

5) Since you are paying 15 days ahead, and actually taking possession in Germany, it is much easier to finalize your deal during the lease rate lock-in period, than if you were taking delivery in the USA... So, I wouldn't worry about that..

6) Ummmm.. I think you are too late to do ED for an '05 530i.. Haven't they already started on the '06s?

regards,
kyfdx

530ir1150r · March 2005

Concerning #3

I do not remember if someone told me or I read it somewhere, but Harms or BMW can arrange to have the car trailered from the Delivery Center to Harm's Lot.

shipo · March 2005

Really!?! I've never heard that before. Hmmm, learn something new everyday. ;-)

Then again, if I'm going to haul my butt all of the way over to Germany, I'm going to damn well be sure that I get a chance to blast down the Autobahn in my new car before I go home, so I guess this new little tidbit of knowledge is moot where I'm concerned.

Best Regards,
Shipo

BMW European Delivery

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