BMW European Delivery

planoml

"To each his own" I suppose, but the savings on an ED is just a part of the deal for me. I am more interested in driving the car where it was born. There are some unbelievable roads there. As usual I agree with Shipo-I guess it's a Texas thing:)

skobola

Hmm, this is new for me as well, I mean the info that BMW makes one payment. Why they would do that? But if so, that would make it pretty tempting for us on the East coast, as the transportation from Germany is about a week or two, so there would not be that much money wasted while the lease payment is paid, but the car cannot be used as it would be on the ship (in transport). I would also use it in Europe for 2 weeks to go and visit places, and for that time I would certainly be OK with paying the lease payment, as I would actually use the car. Please, let me know if the above assumptions are OK.

cpeterson3

Thanks again KYFDX and all.

Being this well informed is priceless and I appreciate all the input. I'm not interested in squeezing the dealer... rather just being as close to on-plane with their knowledge of the situation and potential benefits I can take advantage of.

I have been working with a local "corporate" dealership yet have been pleasantly surprised to this point with our interactions. I expected them to be less than flexible. Hopefully things stay on the up & up as I like my sales-person.

Last night I quickly called 5 dealerships all within 60 miles, simply and respectfully asking 2 questions: does your dealership actively participate in the ED program and if so, do you hold to ED MSRP or is their room for movement. 3 of them 5 said no, that their frozen on the MSRP and the other 2 welcomed the opportunity to discuss a deal.

Pardon the bullet points but that's how my mind works - drives my wife crazy.

1) You are correct, any 525 or 530 production is on '06 units which I guess is good with the HP/torque increase but neg. in the fact that pricing is not yet available.

I would guess its a nominal increases, yes?

2) About the HP increase. Does this simplistic rational work for anyone else: using the old salesmans up-selling trick of driving the lesser powered car first then getting into the higher powered after and realizing the difference and that you can't go back - if you questioned the '05 525's power but were happy with the '05 530's, then considering the '06 525 will be within a few HP's of the '05 530, it should be OK to stick with the 525 considering the cost savings.. any thoughts ??

3) the deal: Even though my dealer said sure to working a deal off of ED MSRP, if I decide to lease, will that change their mind? Are they more likely to push back to holding to MSRP on a lease?

4) because I am leasing, please once again confirm that I get to use today's domestic lease program of .00125 (plus the .0003) and the 62% residual. Is it possible the residual could improve? Is the 62% because were talking about current '05 domestic deals? or when the '06's land, will they have a higher residual? (I'm not looking to nickel and diming, just want to know)
5) To the point of rate locking. If my arrival target in Munich is 5/23, then I essentially should begin the discussions in earnest the week of 3/23 to cover the 60 day window - correct?

As always, thanks to all for the patience!!

cpeterson3

Sorry to not add this to above as number 6, there was a mention to potential pricing help if your a member of BMWCCNA, any thoughts how I could work this in? Lets say the dealer goes $1K below ED MSRP, can this membership lead to another $1K off?

thanks!!!

shipo

Point by point, again. ;-)

1) True, there is no pricing on the 2006 models yet, however, I expect that any difference in MSRP will be moot where leasing is concerned due to the higher residual.

2) The 2006 525i 6-Speed manual should perform almost as well as my 2002 530i manual, almost. Have there been times when I wished for more umph? Yup. Was I willing to pay well over $8,000 more to upgrade to a 540i? Nope. Now, if I had been offered the option of an extra 30 ponies for say $1,000, would I have opted for that? Yup! In a heart beat.

3) Whether you lease or purchase, the dealership gets their money, it makes no difference to them.

4) Typically the 2006s will have a slightly higher residual, I suggest that you call BMW-FS and ask.

5) Unknown.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

I have a few things to add.. (surprising, no?)

1) The only hint I've seen on pricing, is that the 530i will be $1100 more, but will have xenon lights standard..

2) The new 525i will have a 3.0 litre engine, and I expect it to be significantly more powerful than the old 525, but maybe just short of the old 530... I think it will be acceptable, but since the new 530i is getting a 30Hp bump, you may still feel like you missed out.

3) I agree with shipo, that the dealer won't care if you lease or buy... but, some dealers use that opportunity to make some money in the finance office, by padding the money factor.

4) The residuals on the current 5-series have nothing to do with the '06 models... My guess is the money factor will return to "normal" (prob. .0022-.0024). I don't think the residuals will go up, because BMWFS is basically subsidizing the current residual on the '05.. 62% for 3yr/36K is very strong..

5) If you want to pickup in Munich on 5/23, I'd get started right now... When they announce pricing on the '06, they should also announce a lease program, though they may not... You will have to sign your lease at least 15 days ahead of pickup, so you don't have to worry about missing the rate lock.

I see some pitfalls..

a) The new '06 will not be discounted much initially, especially if you are getting one the first month... I'd say $1000-$1500 off ED MSRP will be the best you can do..

b) Even though you may have pricing, you may have to order, not knowing what the lease program will be.. They may not announce that until April or May..

c) By using ED, you may be able to get a lease as cheaply as a current US delivery on an '05... But, I wouldn't bet on it.

regards,
kyfdx

cpeterson3

You've bought brought something to my attention that I may have been misinterpreting. I've been hanging this whole idea on being able to not only get a car with the ED price benefit but lock into todays lease program - isn't that what they mean by rate lock?

I thought by ordering my car today, I could base my lease on today's .00125 MF and 62% residual.

Are you saying that I acutally will have my lease based upon whatever MF and residual is in effect in May?

thanks

kyfdx

is that the lease program you are citing, is for the '05 model..

There is no published lease program for the '06 models yet... Nobody knows what that lease program would be...

If you were looking to take ED on a car that was already being sold, then you could lock-in the current program..

But, in this case... there is no current program..

cpeterson3

Aaahhhhh... I see now.

Well, my enthusiasm is a bit deflated but hopefully the discounted ED price will still make a difference in the net lease payment and I'll end-up with a lower payment than if I were to take from US stock.

thanks to all.

kyfdx

One other thing..

If you are comparing apples to apples... that is.. a US delivery of a new '06 vs. ED delivery of a new '06... Then, you will most certainly save money doing the ED thing..

So, if we are waiting for the new model, I heartily recommend ED.

Good luck,
kyfdx

e90freak1

Hi Everyone,
I have been waiting for E90 for the last two years. And now when I am ready to do my Euro delivery at the end of may, the dealer tells me that I can't do it untill late June/Early July.
Is that ligitimate? Or I should find another dealership.
Thanks,
E90Freak1

kyfdx

I don't know for sure, but I would check around.. Dealers are getting their E90 demos in late April, and dealer stock in late May... I've heard of others taking ED in May..

Pricing doesn't come out until March 23rd.. I get the feeling that dealers will know more then.. Maybe your dealer just isn't interested in working on a deal that he can't finalize yet..

cpeterson3

Good morning.

So if I'm doing these numbers correctly and moving from the current .00125 MF to the likely .0024 MF that you might expect, I'm adding almost $100 per payment to lets say a $42,000 sales price for 12/36.

Sound ballpark correct?

kyfdx

Yup.. If the car came in at the same MSRP and selling price, same residual, and only the money factor changed, you'd be looking at $80/mo..

Add in a higher MSRP, and less of a discount, and you might be looking at $100-$125 more..

markjenn

kyfdx, you do a lot of hard work deciphering all these complex deals for the posters here and in other forums. You know your stuff. Some folks are getting some really excellent free/expert advice.

It almost makes me want to wade in and lease my next car - I've always paid cash to avoid having to negotiate a complex deal with so many variables, but with your help ...

- Mark

kyfdx

Well... the only thing I will own up to.. is the free part.. ;-)

cpeterson3

Incredible Information - thankyou sharmabmw

I just called Rick and he was great. I live on the East Coast and he listed a number of his clients that he's done the ED program for so its a matter mailing documents - no big deal.

I'm going to take his advice and if my dealer isn't up front, I'll be happy to work with him.

The issue of rate locking is also bunk according to him. Get a contracted car, price, a production date and leverage BMWFS for todays' lease programs as long as its witin 60 days and you've got good credit. No risk in submitting paperwork.

Thanks again!!!

kyfdx

Sure.. you can lock in the current rates for the '06 5-series..

The question remains... What are the rates for the '06 5-series?

nyccarguy

where on the east coast are you?

cpeterson3

CT

???

skobola

Kyfdx said that BMW makes one (lease) payment when one opts for ED. Why they would do that or in other words, what is in there for them? But if so, that would make it pretty tempting for us on the East coast, as the transportation from Germany is about a week or two, so there would not be that much money wasted while the lease payment is paid (as the car could not be driven while on the ship, i.e., in transport). However, I would also use it in Europe for 2 weeks to go and visit places, and for that time I would certainly be OK with paying the lease payment, as I would actually use the car. Please, let me know if the above assumptions of mine are OK and if I should talk to BMW FS or dealer (or both) in order to arrange all that lease. Thanks.

kyfdx

"Why they would do that or in other words, what is in there for them?"

Car sales.. the same reason that they pay thousands of dollars to run a commercial on TV.

But, the ED lease does have a money factor that is .0003 higher than the US lease.. That would add $15-$20/month to the typical lease.. So, as you can see... there is no free lunch.

regards,
kyfdx

skobola

As my last Bimmer that I ordered on 1/31/2002 came to Miami on 20th of March, during which time it was also actually made/produced, I thought that it would take about 1 week over Atlantic Ocean. But then I saw that it is actually about 2 weeks from Bremenhaven to S. Carolina (by Wallenius). I understand that there is also ground transportation, waiting, and such, so I believe that your estimate of one month is something that one should take as realistic time. However, provided that BMW is willing to pay for one month (per kyfdx), I guess that it still makes sense to do ED for leasing as well, especially if one would otherwise be renting in Europe for 2 weeks.

shipo

When I leased my 530i, there was no such a "BMW pays one month" kind of deal, however, I still found it to be very advantageous to lease an ED car, doubly so since my wife were going to be there and need a car anyway. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

cpeterson3

Hello All.

For kicks, how about weighing in on the following assumptions under the European Delivery program :

If the 545 is carried over as an ’05 model through the period of time in which the 525 and 530 are introduced as ’06 models, then I should be able to rate-lock a May production ED 545 using today’s .00125 (plus .0005) MF and the 61% residual on a 36 month/12K lease – correct?

The scenarios parameters:

MF on an ’06 525 delivered in May is likely back to standard BMWFS new model release levels of around .0025 but keeps a 36/12 residual of 62% - sound good?

If I can rate lock today the 545 which we are still calling an ’05 for delivery in May, I use the .00155 MF and a 61% residual on 36/12 – still good?

Lets assume a the following ED purchase prices:

’06 525 with Auto and Premium for $1K over invoice which I assume to be around $39K

’05 545 for $1K over invoice for around $48K

When I run the lease numbers, the higher MF of the 525 results in a payment of roughly $550 but the 545 at only $600. Does this work for anyone else?

Can you get so much more of a car for so little? (I didn’t even run the 530’s pricing but if this is true, why would anyone order one right now)

307web

You have to assume they will sell them for only 1K over invoice. That may be false, so the whole scenario has little meaning.

kyfdx

1) Yes, you should be able to ED an '05 545i with the current program..

2) The MF for the 545i is actually lower.. it is .0010, giving you an ED MF of .0013

3) Fly in the ointment? The base ED invoice price on an '05 545i is $47,920 with destination... That makes $1K over invoice about $49K, not $48K.

MSRP $56,495
Selling price $49K
Cap cost $49,625 (including acq.fee)
3yr/36K lease
Residual 61%
MF .0013 (ED MF)
Payment $531 + tax..
Due at signing.. 1stpymnt + security deposit + title/license...

Yowza!!!

The key question: Can you find a dealer to sell you one for only $1K over invoice?

And.. can you afford the gas?

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

Change payment to $575 + tax..

cpeterson3

Thanks for the reply.

My numbers were basing the 61% residual upon the ED MSRP (netting $32,079) this providing a hire monthly payment but I am interpreting your post as basing the residual on the US MSRP (netting $34,461) thus resulting in an even more unbeleivablly low monthly payment.

So using the US MSRP for calculation of the residual is how BMWFS will structure the lease??

shipo

That is correct. Just because an ED car sold for less money in 2002 (like mine) doesn't mean that it has a lower residual value in 2005. In 2002, I leased my ED 530i for right around $42,000 (over $48,000 MSRP) with the calculated residual just shy of $29,000.

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

Exactly.. Residuals are always based on the US MSRP, because regardless of what you pay for the car, it will be worth the same as any other identical car with the identical MSRP...

cpeterson3

Do you agree then that when comparing car for car, the 545 would be an incredible steal over the 525 or 530? considering those cars will come in as '06's with lease programs with much higher parameters?

kyfdx

Yes.. I personally think that if you could do ED on a 545i, and that is a car you would be happy with... then the lease deals are incredible..

The only thing that would worry me is gas mileage.. But, it is only for three years.. It isn't like you are stuck with it long-term..

Otherwise, I'd be looking for a current 530i.. the deals on them are pretty decent, but of course, no ED discount available..

cpeterson3

I respect the issue of the gas mileage and will factor that into the decision but maybe I can offset/justify the guzzle factor by the "car per dollar" factor.

I'll keep you posted on the negotiations

planoml

Call another dealer. You should be able to get a late May ED. I set mine up in late Feb. for a May delivery date. This may be a blessing in disguise, as this dealer doesn't appear to be an ED friendly dealer. By the way, where are you at?Best of luck.

e90freak

Thanks Planoml,
I made my dealer call the EU line and he confirmed that my date is available. So I am trying to set it up today. Do you know if the sports package will be available at that time, as I am getting mixed messages. I am in N. Cali.
What date are you going? I will be there the week of the 16th. Have you gotten your Lufthansa tickets yet?

-E90 Freak

planoml

Glad it worked out. I didn't get the sports package, but it is very tempting with the wheels. Maybe next time. The official BMW press info, dated March 1st; clearly states that the Premium, Sports, & Cold Weather packages are available now. I would not be dealing with a SA that doesn't know this. I don't mean to be harsh, & understand that there is a little more involvement from us, when doing ED; but there is some core information that the SA should know. You're not asking stuff like, "will the arm-rest cooler keep my Heineken chilled?"

Looks like we are in Munich at about the same time. I did get the Lufthansa tickets, but don't like the route. So, I'm still looking. Will let you know if I find anything.

pjt

[I'll keep you posted on the negotiations].

I've been following this thread, and am curious to know how you make out. You're in CT, but where's the dealer you're negotiating with? Is he ED-friendly, i.e., willing to discount from MSRP? Please let us know. Thanks.

iacopo

I am planning also to get a E90 european delivery.
Do you know where to get the invoice price for the
E90 european delivery ? What is a good price over invoice ?

Thanks for your help

sharmabmw

I was told that ED prices (MSRP and invoice) on 2006 5-series were released yesterday. Does anyone have this information?

planoml

No invoice price availabe yet. You can make a good guesstimate based on what the car mags are saying-about a $600 increase on the base retail price; then add that to the 2005 invoice. The problem is the options. Pricing should be out by the 23rd.

As far as a good price over invoice, in the past the consensus was about $1,500 over invoice. With this being the first year of the E90 it may be a little hard to get that. Also, there is a balance between getting a discount, and getting the car when you need it. That being said, keep trying different dealers, & you will probably find one that is willing to work with you. Best of luck to you. Please, keep us posted on your progress.

cpeterson3

Just left about an hour ago with signed papers for '05 545ia with Cold pack for exactly $1,330 over ED invoice, all up, out the door. I pick-up my new baby in Munich on 5/23/05.

Will update site as process progresses.

Anyone looking for more details should use bimmerfest.com and can email me directly as I promised my salesperson I would not post the ticket price or his name which I do think is fair.

Again, thanks for your input, advice and patience with all the questions.

-later

ponytrekker

Ed really only makes sense if you can drive through the European countryside and sample the German beer, not at the same time.

hpowders

Hey Shipo.
You mentioned you will exchange your 2002 530i for a 2006 330i.
Is this to avoid having the idrive?
Thanks.
Hpowders

shipo

Avoiding iDrive? Hmmm, while I cannot honestly say that its features have any appeal for me, I also have to fess up that I've never tried the latest incarnations if iDrive (I tried it when it first came out on the 7-Series). Since I really haven't given it a fair chance, I'm not really avoiding it per se. When ordering time comes around, I'll give it a good long try, and if I like it I'll order it, simple as that. Of course, with the E90, you have a choice, with the E60, you don't, its part of the car.

So, why am I reverting back to the 3-Series (which was my first BMW)? Simple, to my eye, the 5-Series is simply one of the most unattractive cars on the road. I REALLY dislike it; so much so that I rank it below things like the Pontiac Aztek (ugh!) and the Scion xB (double ugh!). Having said that, even though there are plenty of styling queues that tie the E90 to its two Bangalized sedan predecessors (the E65 and E60), I find its visual presentation to be quite pleasing. Why? Can't actually say, it just does. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

dl7265

E-gad ! Worse than the "tent truck" ? Com'on Dale give it a little more slack than that!I hate that"thing" worse than vega,maverick,pinto...

DL

shipo

Hehe, I guess I was successful in communicating how much I dislike the look of the E60, it just rubs me so completely wrong. :-/

"I hate that "thing" worse than vega, maverick, pinto..."

Hey! I resemble that remark! :-) Back in the days when I was naive enough the think that there was some truth in automotive advertising, I actually bought a Vega, complete with the "Two-Speed Slip and Slide Powerglide" automatic. Then I discovered the Vega phonomenona known as "Oil Mileage". If I remember correctly my Oil Mileage was something like 200 mpg, using straight 40W oil no less. Yeesh!

Best Regards,
Shipo

dl7265

Wellll.I had a lil Orange hatch myself but only because it was a gift . Honestly when the 7 came out I was not pleased. And my 1st drive in a 5, by myself I could not figured out how to adjust the A/C or radio! I was really perturbed. But, I also have to admit the E60 and E90 are growing on me, in fact so that the E46 is looking a little dated (never thought id say that).The bangeled down E90 is probably the best compromise at this point

DL

shipo

While "the bangeled down E90", as you so succinctly put it, has indeed grown on me too, I don't think it is up to the same level as my E39 530i as far as its interior and exterior design goes. I also agree that the E90 has, to my eye at least, a nicer look than the E46. Then again, there is the E60, which if anything, has "ungrown" on me. I very much disliked it when I first saw it, and as of now, I think I like it even less than that, if possible.

Best Regards,
Shipo

dl7265

Odd as it seems I think its the Black belt line trim of the E46 on lighter cars that bothers me the most.On my Silver/Grey Sport the black plastics and window trim too for that matter deteriorated in the TX sun very quickly.Thats probally why I prefer the monocromatic look of the E90and E60 , personal taste of course.

On the one failure my E46 had my salesperson let me drive his E39 for a month waiting on a A/C compressor clutch from Germany. Other than reaching for the armrest area for the window lifts I really enjoyed it. Funny thing was since the fender flares were minor compaired to my 3er it fit more easily in my garage !!

DL