Just an update on the gas mileage. I recently took a 6 hour round trip here in Southern California and on 2 tanks of gas got 30.1 and 30.3 mpg. The car had 7,500 miles on it at the time. Maybe it just needed to get broken in.
My case managers supervisor said the car was performing as designed. My only current avenue is arbitration. So sad. I spoke with a service manager at another dealership. He said a wire replaced the accerator cable in 07 camry's. To have the car perform differently, Toyota would need to change the code.
But your analysis is off in that this is a "woes" board, so it's going to draw a disproportionate share of people with problems. The Edmunds' hosts have repeatedly said this themselves.
I am not counting this site!! I am very much aware of the fact that this site will have the problems only. I am talking about the reviews in yahoo, msn and other sites where people write about good and bad things about the cars as well as their ratings.
Yeah, that doesn't seem normal considering Toyota uses liquid filled engine mounts as well as other measures to quell engine vibration, regardless of trim model.
" All the cars owners do not have internet access. If I see that only 100 people wrote in the reviews. That's a sample population. How many unsatisfied? atleast 50% completely unsatisfied. some others suggest improvement in tranny. So how many are completely satisfied? Very little. This is what the statistics say."
ilovecars1, if you're willing to go through the names of all the reviewers that are giving the really bad reviews, you'd notice many if not nearly all are the same ones with the 'woes' that are upset in this forum aswell. I did that, and it took quite awhile, but was noteworthy nonetheless.
btw, so... what car are you currently leaning towards?
You make a general statement - of your opinion - with absolutely no support.
Perhaps in your extensive research you somehow omitted reading Edmunds review here. It's a very large organization that reviews vehicles ocassionally. Snippet from V6 Family Sedan Comparison In truth, however, after the first five minutes behind the wheel of the all-new 2007 Camry, each evaluator came away with the same impression: "This is a Camry?" Every so often, an automaker produces something so extraordinary that it manages to not only eclipse its own predecessor, but also succeeds in making the competition appear obsolete.
Lukewarm??? Be serious.
Or Motor Trend. Snippet from Motor Trend 2007 Camry Road Test In the preproduction SE example we wrung out through California's twisty roads, the 24-valve mill felt robust and smooth, delivering the gusto and fine-tuning befitting a would-be present-day Supra. The new six-speed auto sets a fine example for shifting with speed and seamlessness. and... Now with an available 268-horse V-6/six-speed automatic powertrain and a tree-hugging gas/electric hybrid in the fray, the Camry sets lofty performance benchmarks. Add to the mix a legitimate sport model, and Toyota has covered all its bases--a home run in America
Or Motor Week Snippet from Motor Week Road Test The Toyota Camry has been the best selling car in the land for most of the last decade. But while the success of previous Camrys may have had as much to do with brand quality and reliability as actual design, the 6th generation car clearly stands on its own automotive legs. In fact we'll be shocked if the 2007 Toyota Camry doesn't continue its predecessor's winning ways. It's more refined, more powerful, very stylish, and safe, and even has efficient hybrid power. Indeed, the new Camry is going to be hard to beat.
Or The Family Car: Snippet from The Family Car review of the 2007 Camry After spending some time with the new Camry, I can say with confidence that this is by far, the best Camry ever made and should have no problems retaining its crown as the best selling car in America.
Now in which of these reviews do you find lukewarm to be a sentiment.
Oh, OK the Camry is not a sports car like a 3 Series or Mazda6.
Car & Driver: Snippet:The Camry is the anti-sport sedan, so despite the SE badge, this refined family car can't be persuaded to play. No, the Camry is not a sports car primarily in C&D's opinion because the VSC cannot be turned off for the likes of a professional driver.
And all of those publications have given glowing reviews of the Highlander as well....and none made any mention of the hesitation problems with them, now did they? But we all know it exists.
And I'm willing to bet they all did the same with the Avalon. Same story here.
I'll choose to believe the owners....not the "reviewers" who (most of which) drive these cars for a few hundred miles at best and have their reviews essentially written already. As we have seen here, some of these problems with the Camry don't show up until well over 1,000 miles.
Let's see what the Consumer Reports survey says in about half a year. Maybe, it'll be like the '05 Avalon, which showed only average overall reliability in its first year.
Then again, the bulk of the complaints seem to center on the 6-speed automatic, which comes only with the V6. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a less-than-glowing mark for the V6 transmission, if there are enough data to separate the 4-cylinder and V6 models.
If not, I'm betting the first-year Camry will show above average reliability, considering that the 4-cylinder is far more popular than the V6. And I'll go farther out on a limb and predict an average or better mark for the transmission alone (if 4 and V6 are combined).
Bashers of CR, choose your best weapon and flame away!
I still hope toyota will come with a fix for the Camry, and I can buy it soon.
I love my corolla, even after 16 years, it is great. But it is showing its age, so can not blame. I would like to stick with toyota products, if they get a fix. I don't think they will. because there was no fix for avalon.
Well regarding the Highlander my wife's comment is what hesitation. Ours is an '04 V6 4WD and while it's present, slightly, you have to want to make it appear. Otherwise in normal driving it's just not an issue at any time.
Until I showed her this board she had no idea what I was telling her about. Then I showed her how to make it occur. She asked 'Why would you do that?'
I experienced some hesitation in the car that I test drove last week. BUT, this car is a july make, but in japan. LE 4cyl. I was in VA and the dealer had only one test drive vehicle.
I am wondering if I can talk to people who bought camrys recently after the TSB's.
Well regarding the Highlander my wife's comment is what hesitation. Ours is an '04 V6 4WD and while it's present, slightly, you have to want to make it appear. Otherwise in normal driving it's just not an issue at any time.
Until I showed her this board she had no idea what I was telling her about. Then I showed her how to make it occur. She asked 'Why would you do that?'
I couldn't disagree more with this post....unless you mean you showed her by simply pressing down on the gas pedal in a normal manner either from a stop or while in the process of slowing down, then I would agree. It is a well-known problem experienced by "normal" drivers that, most importantly, don't have this problem in their other rides. So user error CANNOT be the problem.
Disagreeing with the impression you are giving others that the only way to experience hesitation is to somehow drive it differently from other cars....when in fact the only way to attempt to AVOID the hesitation (for those who have it) is to drive it differently from other cars.
Driving at a constant speed whether 20 mph or 50 mph and 'stomping' on it as opposed to giving it constant increasing pressure.
It appears to me that once the vehicle senses that you want to accelerate a lot faster, by giving it a constant and increasing pressure, then it's possible to floor it without much if any hesitation. At least this is the way our Highlander performs. The '07 Camry may have different characteristics and the '07 Camry is brand new. The Highlander is 2 y.o. to us so again it's used to us or we to it.
Yes, specifically if I stomp on it as opposed to accelerating smoothly then gunning it. Now I'm replying to the conditions with our 2 y.o. Highlander on which some complain of hesitation and others do not.
My point is that it's there in the Highlander it's just that for normal driving we never notice it.
If your car hesitates it hesitates. Doesnt matter who drives it, it is in the car. I personally think it has to do with the temp outside. It has cooled down here and I havent had any problems with my car, and when I first bought it back in march I didnt have any problems untill it got hot outside. In my experience I will never buy another Toyota or tell anybody else to buy a Toyota, because it is all about money and as long as they got their money it really doesnt matter about you in the long run, You are just another pissed of customer that isnt going to buy their product again. Well I have bitched all I am going to [non-permissible content removed] and I am not going to waist anymore of my energy dealing with Toyota, so I guess I can say Toyota you won, I give up. Trading in the car that Toyota is so impressed with my 07 camry se. I hate the car, but I am sorry that my car will be resold and someone else will have my problems. :sick:
as I'm sure many of you now know the NHTSA has now mandated VSC/TRAC control systems for all new cars. These systems require that many of those things that used to be controlled mechanically now be controlled electronically - including our transmissions, throttles, steering, brakes etc. all through a silly computer somewhere that thinks it knows what is best for you. Don't think for a minute that all the mfgrs. didn't know this was coming and have been preparing to adjust to the new laws as economically as possible for awhile now. In addition, EPA fleet economy requirements and emissions regs have been increased substantially, also numbers known well in advance. Something to consider: - things like recalcitrant trannies, engines that 'spike', brakes that 'operate on their own' etc. etc. will become more and more commonplace as the 'government' is effectively legislating without regard to drivability issues. putting the car before the horse is governmental SOP! - the manufacturers (Toyota included) do not at this time have a fix (only compromises) for the 'computer controlled' car given that the intervention levels for the programs for things like VSC must be set for some 'lowest common denominator' driver if it is to be effective as a safety feature in the first place. This means, that while VSC may 'save your bacon' it must also, in some manner interfere, with the ultimate evasive capability of your car (which would be where the car mags start griping).
The point I'm making - these 'problems' we (I own an 05 Avalon) are having is THE FUTURE and are ostensibly interrelated to those control systems and fuel economies that our erstwhile government has mandated. It will get worse before it gets better.
Can I get my Av to hesitate - sure - much as I'm relatively confident that you Camry owners can (5 or 6 speed). Is this tranny behavior consistent - yep. Is it possible to 'learn' to avoid it - fortunately (for me) also yes. Actually love my car, despite its tranny foibles. Should we have to - now that would be an interesting question to ask before you go out and spend 20 or 30 grand on anything; or, for that matter spend $100k on a Benz 7 speed auto SL (and others) that is apparently even worse.
While Toyota's approach to these problems may indeed be too aggressive and to some, bothersome - they are not even close to being unique to Toyota products. At the risk of sounding like some sort of shill, I would put my faith in Toyota's ability to work thru these 'drivability' issues faster and better than anybody else in the industry.
Is this the 2007 Camry Woes page? If you get a 2007 camry 4 cyl. then you will know what the hesitation is all about. I have a 2003 Nissan Murano also and it does not hesitate. Which one of you gals is monitoring this group?
"Is this the 2007 Camry Woes page? If you get a 2007 camry 4 cyl. then you will know what the hesitation is all about. I have a 2003 Nissan Murano also and it does not hesitate. Which one of you gals is monitoring this group?"
Jetjockg, I have an 07 Camry SE I4 5A with over 8000 kms now, and has not and does not have any sort of 'hesitation'.
If you get a 2007 camry 4 cyl. then you will know what the hesitation is all about.
You can say that again! The V6 hesitation that a number of people have been commenting on is in no way related to the I4 hesitation. In fact, if the people that experience it on the V6 would pay a little more attention, they would notice that it occurs when the throttle is opened quickly, and the transmission is in the process of downshifting while the rpm's are coming up. SIMPLE explanation! The I4 hesitation can occur with little, moderate, or large applications of throttle and are just a complete failure of gas to get to the engine. I've spoken on this a number of times and have related that the Toyota engineer confirmed a period of lean air/fuel ratio on throttle application, and by the way, good correlation of pedal application to throttle opening - which puts to rest the idea of throttle-by-wire issues.
I agree. I don't believe it's a Drive-By-Wire problem necessarily, but rather a firmware issue controlling the fuel/air mixture, and enrichment.
Having spent many years tuning carburetors in British, German, and Japanese sports cars (prior to fuel injection), it really appears that the hesitation issue is caused by a flat spot when the throttle is opened quickly. This flat spot is simply caused by too lean a fuel/air mixture. It's entirely possible that Toyota in its continual search for the holy grail in enhanced fuel economy simply has the ECU program's firmware on the "hairy edge" of too lean a mixture, and this is exacerbated when the throttle is opened very quickly. It's most likely a firmware issue controlling either the fuel/air mixture, or the enrichment circuits durng an instantaneous throttle opening. And, this is all complicated by the electronically-controlled automatic, also constantly searching for the best ratio to provide the best fuel economy. In time, the firmware should be updated, or a change-out of the ECU may be required. In the meantime, it's a real problem for those who have to live with it.
Prior to today's extremely complicated fuel injection and engine management systems, it was just a matter of replacing an accelerator pump within the carb, or turning an adjustment screw or jet to increase the fuel/air mixture ratio - the problem could be fixed easily and in a few minutes for very little money. Unfortunately, such is not the case today with complex engine and fuel management systems.
I agree with you i [non-permissible content removed] and [non-permissible content removed] . I did get a call from jim press's from Toyota he apogloizes that i am having trouble with my car .I am ready to trade it and take a beating
When Nissan announced a CVT transmission for their 2007 Maxima, I decided in my mind that I would buy either a 2007 Camry or 2007 Altima instead. I really didn't want to buy new technology, and the V/6 Camry with a 6-speed automatic got me all excited. Then, I came across this board in my search. And, I crossed Toyota off my list!
Instead, I bought a 2007 Maxima with the CVT. The transmission and throttle response is instant. Absolutely no hestitation. Go drive one and see for yourself. (Plus, the CVT is considerably improved over that in the Murano.)
The Camrys have the problems they do because they were not properly engineered and tested before being released for sale.
I also have a 2004 Maxima with a 5-speed automatic. The throttle response is instant, also.
If anyone is a die-hard Toyota person, they should buy the Hybrid Camry with a CVT, instead of the regular Camry. I haven't read any bad reports on that car.
Hey, nissanron. I was a former 2002 Maxima driver until it was totalled in a wreck two months ago. I ended up getting a Lexus RX350, as I was a little unsure about the CVT tranny in the new Maxima, plus the car keeps growing in length, which is somewhat problematic for me for reasons I won't go into right now, but I've been reading the boards on the tranny issues with the '07 V6 Camry's and to some extent some smaller issues with the Lexus ES350, because I must admit I am still trying to get used to the way the transmission shifts on my RX. I haven't heard of any complaints over on the RX boards, at least not what sounds like I've experienced. I can't even be sure that what I've experienced would be labeled as "hesitation".
I do know, for instance, when approaching an intersection and slowing down so that I can make a "rolling turn, for example, to the right, I get this feeling as if the tranny is holding down the gears or something and slowing down the car to where it sort of jars me. I then feel I have to somewhat be aggressive in using the accelerator because it feels as though the car is about to come to a stop. I'm not sure if I'm describing this so that anyone can understand what I'm saying here, but it has been an adjustment( a big one, I must say, from my '02 Maxima) in an otherwise flawless car!
Right now at this point, if I was asked what I didn't like about my RX, it would be the strange way that the tranny works. Also, getting back to the CVT in the Maxima, I drove a Murano rental for about four days and I didn't particularly care for the CVT on the Mo. To me, it felt as if low-end power, such as starting from a stoplight, was somewhat anemic. I know some people like the CVT, but I also think it takes getting used to.
Good luck with the '07 Max. I think it's still gonna be a great car. I still miss my '02 Max., although I love the RX too!!
So damon34, now that the summer weather is gone, are you experiencing your problems still, and if not, are you atleast enjoying yourself in it now? Hope so.
you write: good correlation of pedal application to throttle opening
are you sure that the toyota engineer confirmed good correlation (and no lag or non-linearity) between accelerator pedal position, and throttle body valve position?
if true, then the whole theory i was holding onto w.r.t. non-linearity in the accelerator pedal assembly, specially in light of the reports of people adjusting where they apply force to the pedal are suspect.
i never considered that the ECU might be holding off changing the duty cycle on the injectors. i don't know why exactly they'd purposefully want to let the vehicle go to a very lean condition with a rapid position change of the throttle valve... but then maybe there is some form of rate limiter or filter in the control unit to "slow-down" the response of the fuel enrichment to throttle valve position opening rates of change (open) as some safety / sensor validation / or other function.
interesting...
if someone would just instrument their car with one of the readers capable of capturing the toyota specific system parameters through the OBD-II interface.
Yesterday I took my 2007 Camry SE into my local dealer for repair of a noise emanating from the rear of the vehicle. After picking it up today they informed me that the noise was coming from a rear strut that was hitting the body thus causing the noise. Their fix was to apply sound insulating foam around the area thus eliminating the noise. My concern here, and please let me know if I’m being over concerned, is that this seems to me to be a band aid and not a permanent fix. Over time I’d expect something to give either the strut or the part of the body that it is bumping into. Toyota apparently sent out a master tech to fix this issue since the prior two times I brought it in for this it could not be repaired by there regular mechanics. I feel as though they just didn’t want to invest any time and money to properly fix this problem.
Am I right in thinking that they slacked on the repair job?
I committed in buying a Camry SE V6 about 4 weeks ago, well knowing the Transmission issue. I was assured by Toyota Canada and TMS that the problem has been resolved at production line since May.
Well, upon my PDI inspection I sat in the back seat, since it was cold, with my wife and the sale person in the front. I immediately notice clicking sound from the seat. Make the long story short there was a problem with back seat and they were unable to neither detect nor rectify the problem upon removal and inspection of the seat by Toyota technician.
I am now waiting for a new car as I refused to take position of this car. Meanwhile I am wondering if I am buying an overprice American car.
Does anyone else have initial quality issues with 07 Camry?
I am now waiting for a new car as I refused to take position of this car. Meanwhile I am wondering if I am buying an overprice American car. Explain. How do you consider this a overpriced American car. This is a Japanesse car asembled in America. The new Chevy Malibu may be a better buy and cheaper.
We took delivery of our loaded V6 SE and it's flawless (so far). We got a great deal at about $3k off sticker and at that price it's worth every penny. It really feels solid and refined (and loads of fun when you want to push it).
rsarrami sez: I am now waiting for a new car as I refused to take position of this car. Meanwhile I am wondering if I am buying an overprice American car.
This is an excellent example of the mindless stereotyping that prevails among many who assume incorrectly that everything from a Japanese maker is perfect and everything from the big three is junk. Sad, really.
I put in a review about my 2007 LE Camry last month and it still hasn't posted. It was not a good review, guess why...the transmission is a nightmere! You can check my past posts for a complete list of all the problems. I also give up talking with Toyota. Can't wait to unload it, anyone interested? Hopefully Toyota will find a fix.
Just wondering if your LE was bought in the last month or so. I know the V6 tranmission issue has been resolved (atleast,I hope so) since Toyota has apparently switched vendors to produce their trannys about a month ago.
I guess I should be happy then that I ordered my SE without this VSC. I didn't think it was that important, as I'm a safe driver, and now I'm even happier with my decision
hey ilovecars1, as far as I know, the US government hasn't actually mandated it yet, and if they do, it won't be until 2010 that all automakers will be required to. Could be wrong.
I purchased my 2007 Camry LE 4 cyl. in March 2006. Beside the crazy hesitation problem with the transmission. The dashboard assembly was terrible. The seam where the verticle and horizontal sections meet were 1/8 inch on the right side of the car and 1/4 inch on the left side. Seven other new Camrys had the same dash problem. The cruise control over shoots and of course the transmission thinks its a good idea to drop to a lower gear when passing over every overpass! The dealer,regional tech reps and Toyota keep referring me to eachother for corrective action. It is kind of fun to watch them lie about my problems with the car now that I know what's going on with Yoyota's quality control downfall. When I can't stand it any more I climb into my 2003 Murano to renew my faith in mankind.
Comments
This is the direction in which the industry is moving, and there are many makes and models now with throttle by wire.
I, for one, wouldn't want to go back to the bad old days of sticking or breaking throttle linkages or cables.
All the cars owners do not have internet access. If I see that only 100 people wrote in the reviews. That's a sample population. How many unsatisfied? atleast 50% completely unsatisfied. some others suggest improvement in tranny. So how many are completely satisfied? Very little. This is what the statistics say."
ilovecars1, if you're willing to go through the names of all the reviewers that are giving the really bad reviews, you'd notice many if not nearly all are the same ones with the 'woes' that are upset in this forum aswell. I did that, and it took quite awhile, but was noteworthy nonetheless.
btw, so... what car are you currently leaning towards?
Perhaps in your extensive research you somehow omitted reading Edmunds review here. It's a very large organization that reviews vehicles ocassionally.
Snippet from V6 Family Sedan Comparison
In truth, however, after the first five minutes behind the wheel of the all-new 2007 Camry, each evaluator came away with the same impression: "This is a Camry?" Every so often, an automaker produces something so extraordinary that it manages to not only eclipse its own predecessor, but also succeeds in making the competition appear obsolete.
Lukewarm??? Be serious.
Or Motor Trend.
Snippet from Motor Trend 2007 Camry Road Test
In the preproduction SE example we wrung out through California's twisty roads, the 24-valve mill felt robust and smooth, delivering the gusto and fine-tuning befitting a would-be present-day Supra. The new six-speed auto sets a fine example for shifting with speed and seamlessness.
and...
Now with an available 268-horse V-6/six-speed automatic powertrain and a tree-hugging gas/electric hybrid in the fray, the Camry sets lofty performance benchmarks. Add to the mix a legitimate sport model, and Toyota has covered all its bases--a home run in America
Or Motor Week
Snippet from Motor Week Road Test
The Toyota Camry has been the best selling car in the land for most of the last decade. But while the success of previous Camrys may have had as much to do with brand quality and reliability as actual design, the 6th generation car clearly stands on its own automotive legs. In fact we'll be shocked if the 2007 Toyota Camry doesn't continue its predecessor's winning ways. It's more refined, more powerful, very stylish, and safe, and even has efficient hybrid power. Indeed, the new Camry is going to be hard to beat.
Or The Family Car:
Snippet from The Family Car review of the 2007 Camry
After spending some time with the new Camry, I can say with confidence that this is by far, the best Camry ever made and should have no problems retaining its crown as the best selling car in America.
Now in which of these reviews do you find lukewarm to be a sentiment.
Oh, OK the Camry is not a sports car like a 3 Series or Mazda6.
Car & Driver:
Snippet:The Camry is the anti-sport sedan, so despite the SE badge, this refined family car can't be persuaded to play.
No, the Camry is not a sports car primarily in C&D's opinion because the VSC cannot be turned off for the likes of a professional driver.
And all of those publications have given glowing reviews of the Highlander as well....and none made any mention of the hesitation problems with them, now did they? But we all know it exists.
And I'm willing to bet they all did the same with the Avalon. Same story here.
I'll choose to believe the owners....not the "reviewers" who (most of which) drive these cars for a few hundred miles at best and have their reviews essentially written already. As we have seen here, some of these problems with the Camry don't show up until well over 1,000 miles.
Then again, the bulk of the complaints seem to center on the 6-speed automatic, which comes only with the V6. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a less-than-glowing mark for the V6 transmission, if there are enough data to separate the 4-cylinder and V6 models.
If not, I'm betting the first-year Camry will show above average reliability, considering that the 4-cylinder is far more popular than the V6. And I'll go farther out on a limb and predict an average or better mark for the transmission alone (if 4 and V6 are combined).
Bashers of CR, choose your best weapon and flame away!
I love my corolla, even after 16 years, it is great. But it is showing its age, so can not blame. I would like to stick with toyota products, if they get a fix. I don't think they will. because there was no fix for avalon.
Why won't it move if I press gas pedal? toyota should get a fix.
Until I showed her this board she had no idea what I was telling her about. Then I showed her how to make it occur. She asked 'Why would you do that?'
I am wondering if I can talk to people who bought camrys recently after the TSB's.
How do you make it occur? may be I have a bad driving habit???
Until I showed her this board she had no idea what I was telling her about. Then I showed her how to make it occur. She asked 'Why would you do that?'
I couldn't disagree more with this post....unless you mean you showed her by simply pressing down on the gas pedal in a normal manner either from a stop or while in the process of slowing down, then I would agree. It is a well-known problem experienced by "normal" drivers that, most importantly, don't have this problem in their other rides. So user error CANNOT be the problem.
Whether she learned how to drive the vehicle or it adapted to her inputs it just doesn't exist in ours unless I make it do so.
It appears to me that once the vehicle senses that you want to accelerate a lot faster, by giving it a constant and increasing pressure, then it's possible to floor it without much if any hesitation. At least this is the way our Highlander performs. The '07 Camry may have different characteristics and the '07 Camry is brand new. The Highlander is 2 y.o. to us so again it's used to us or we to it.
My point is that it's there in the Highlander it's just that for normal driving we never notice it.
In my experience I will never buy another Toyota or tell anybody else to buy a Toyota, because it is all about money and as long as they got their money it really doesnt matter about you in the long run, You are just another pissed of customer that isnt going to buy their product again. Well I have bitched all I am going to [non-permissible content removed] and I am not going to waist anymore of my energy dealing with Toyota, so I guess I can say Toyota you won, I give up. Trading in the car that Toyota is so impressed with my 07 camry se. I hate the car, but I am sorry that my car will be resold and someone else will have my problems. :sick:
- things like recalcitrant trannies, engines that 'spike', brakes that 'operate on their own' etc. etc. will become more and more commonplace as the 'government' is effectively legislating without regard to drivability issues. putting the car before the horse is governmental SOP!
- the manufacturers (Toyota included) do not at this time have a fix (only compromises) for the 'computer controlled' car given that the intervention levels for the programs for things like VSC must be set for some 'lowest common denominator' driver if it is to be effective as a safety feature in the first place. This means, that while VSC may 'save your bacon' it must also, in some manner interfere, with the ultimate evasive capability of your car (which would be where the car mags start griping).
The point I'm making - these 'problems' we (I own an 05 Avalon) are having is THE FUTURE and are ostensibly interrelated to those control systems and fuel economies that our erstwhile government has mandated. It will get worse before it gets better.
Can I get my Av to hesitate - sure - much as I'm relatively confident that you Camry owners can (5 or 6 speed). Is this tranny behavior consistent - yep. Is it possible to 'learn' to avoid it - fortunately (for me) also yes. Actually love my car, despite its tranny foibles. Should we have to - now that would be an interesting question to ask before you go out and spend 20 or 30 grand on anything; or, for that matter spend $100k on a Benz 7 speed auto SL (and others) that is apparently even worse.
While Toyota's approach to these problems may indeed be too aggressive and to some, bothersome - they are not even close to being unique to Toyota products. At the risk of sounding like some sort of shill, I would put my faith in Toyota's ability to work thru these 'drivability' issues faster and better than anybody else in the industry.
Jetjockg, I have an 07 Camry SE I4 5A with over 8000 kms now, and has not and does not have any sort of 'hesitation'.
You can say that again! The V6 hesitation that a number of people have been commenting on is in no way related to the I4 hesitation. In fact, if the people that experience it on the V6 would pay a little more attention, they would notice that it occurs when the throttle is opened quickly, and the transmission is in the process of downshifting while the rpm's are coming up. SIMPLE explanation! The I4 hesitation can occur with little, moderate, or large applications of throttle and are just a complete failure of gas to get to the engine. I've spoken on this a number of times and have related that the Toyota engineer confirmed a period of lean air/fuel ratio on throttle application, and by the way, good correlation of pedal application to throttle opening - which puts to rest the idea of throttle-by-wire issues.
Having spent many years tuning carburetors in British, German, and Japanese sports cars (prior to fuel injection), it really appears that the hesitation issue is caused by a flat spot when the throttle is opened quickly. This flat spot is simply caused by too lean a fuel/air mixture. It's entirely possible that Toyota in its continual search for the holy grail in enhanced fuel economy simply has the ECU program's firmware on the "hairy edge" of too lean a mixture, and this is exacerbated when the throttle is opened very quickly. It's most likely a firmware issue controlling either the fuel/air mixture, or the enrichment circuits durng an instantaneous throttle opening. And, this is all complicated by the electronically-controlled automatic, also constantly searching for the best ratio to provide the best fuel economy. In time, the firmware should be updated, or a change-out of the ECU may be required. In the meantime, it's a real problem for those who have to live with it.
Prior to today's extremely complicated fuel injection and engine management systems, it was just a matter of replacing an accelerator pump within the carb, or turning an adjustment screw or jet to increase the fuel/air mixture ratio - the problem could be fixed easily and in a few minutes for very little money. Unfortunately, such is not the case today with complex engine and fuel management systems.
Instead, I bought a 2007 Maxima with the CVT. The transmission and throttle response is instant. Absolutely no hestitation. Go drive one and see for yourself. (Plus, the CVT is considerably improved over that in the Murano.)
The Camrys have the problems they do because they were not properly engineered and tested before being released for sale.
I also have a 2004 Maxima with a 5-speed automatic. The throttle response is instant, also.
If anyone is a die-hard Toyota person, they should buy the Hybrid Camry with a CVT, instead of the regular Camry. I haven't read any bad reports on that car.
driver until it was totalled in a wreck two
months ago. I ended up getting a Lexus RX350,
as I was a little unsure about the CVT tranny
in the new Maxima, plus the car keeps growing
in length, which is somewhat problematic for
me for reasons I won't go into right now, but
I've been reading the boards on the tranny issues with the '07 V6 Camry's and to some extent some smaller issues with the Lexus ES350, because I must admit I am still trying
to get used to the way the transmission shifts
on my RX. I haven't heard of any complaints
over on the RX boards, at least not what sounds like I've experienced. I can't even be
sure that what I've experienced would be labeled as "hesitation".
I do know, for instance, when approaching an
intersection and slowing down so that I can
make a "rolling turn, for example, to the right, I get this feeling as if the tranny is
holding down the gears or something and slowing
down the car to where it sort of jars me. I
then feel I have to somewhat be aggressive in
using the accelerator because it feels as though the car is about to come to a stop. I'm
not sure if I'm describing this so that anyone
can understand what I'm saying here, but it has
been an adjustment( a big one, I must say, from
my '02 Maxima) in an otherwise flawless car!
Right now at this point, if I was asked what
I didn't like about my RX, it would be the strange way that the tranny works. Also, getting back to the CVT in the Maxima, I drove a Murano rental for about four days and I didn't particularly care for the CVT on the Mo. To me, it felt as if low-end power, such as starting from a stoplight, was somewhat anemic. I know some people like the CVT, but I also think it takes getting used to.
Good luck with the '07 Max. I think it's still
gonna be a great car. I still miss my '02 Max., although I love the RX too!!
good correlation of pedal application to throttle opening
are you sure that the toyota engineer confirmed good correlation (and no lag or non-linearity) between accelerator pedal position, and throttle body valve position?
if true, then the whole theory i was holding onto w.r.t. non-linearity in the accelerator pedal assembly, specially in light of the reports of people adjusting where they apply force to the pedal are suspect.
i never considered that the ECU might be holding off changing the duty cycle on the injectors. i don't know why exactly they'd purposefully want to let the vehicle go to a very lean condition with a rapid position change of the throttle valve... but then maybe there is some form of rate limiter or filter in the control unit to "slow-down" the response of the fuel enrichment to throttle valve position opening rates of change (open) as some safety / sensor validation / or other function.
interesting...
if someone would just instrument their car with one of the readers capable of capturing the toyota specific system parameters through the OBD-II interface.
Am I right in thinking that they slacked on the repair job?
Well, upon my PDI inspection I sat in the back seat, since it was cold, with my wife and the sale person in the front. I immediately notice clicking sound from the seat. Make the long story short there was a problem with back seat and they were unable to neither detect nor rectify the problem upon removal and inspection of the seat by Toyota technician.
I am now waiting for a new car as I refused to take position of this car. Meanwhile I am wondering if I am buying an overprice American car.
Does anyone else have initial quality issues with 07 Camry?
'07 noise in rear
I would contact national Toyota and talk to a technician from that end. I would also consider filing a complain about the solution upon your finding.
This worked out well for me on a similar situation with my 4Runner a few years ago.
I am now waiting for a new car as I refused to take position of this car. Meanwhile I am wondering if I am buying an overprice American car.
Explain. How do you consider this a overpriced American car. This is a Japanesse car asembled in America. The new Chevy Malibu may be a better buy and cheaper.
I am now waiting for a new car as I refused to take position of this car. Meanwhile I am wondering if I am buying an overprice American car.
This is an excellent example of the mindless stereotyping that prevails among many who assume incorrectly that everything from a Japanese maker is perfect and everything from the big three is junk. Sad, really.
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