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This is the direction in which the industry is moving, and there are many makes and models now with throttle by wire.
I, for one, wouldn't want to go back to the bad old days of sticking or breaking throttle linkages or cables.
All the cars owners do not have internet access. If I see that only 100 people wrote in the reviews. That's a sample population. How many unsatisfied? atleast 50% completely unsatisfied. some others suggest improvement in tranny. So how many are completely satisfied? Very little. This is what the statistics say."
ilovecars1, if you're willing to go through the names of all the reviewers that are giving the really bad reviews, you'd notice many if not nearly all are the same ones with the 'woes' that are upset in this forum aswell. I did that, and it took quite awhile, but was noteworthy nonetheless.
btw, so... what car are you currently leaning towards?
Perhaps in your extensive research you somehow omitted reading Edmunds review here. It's a very large organization that reviews vehicles ocassionally.
Snippet from V6 Family Sedan Comparison
In truth, however, after the first five minutes behind the wheel of the all-new 2007 Camry, each evaluator came away with the same impression: "This is a Camry?" Every so often, an automaker produces something so extraordinary that it manages to not only eclipse its own predecessor, but also succeeds in making the competition appear obsolete.
Lukewarm??? Be serious.
Or Motor Trend.
Snippet from Motor Trend 2007 Camry Road Test
In the preproduction SE example we wrung out through California's twisty roads, the 24-valve mill felt robust and smooth, delivering the gusto and fine-tuning befitting a would-be present-day Supra. The new six-speed auto sets a fine example for shifting with speed and seamlessness.
and...
Now with an available 268-horse V-6/six-speed automatic powertrain and a tree-hugging gas/electric hybrid in the fray, the Camry sets lofty performance benchmarks. Add to the mix a legitimate sport model, and Toyota has covered all its bases--a home run in America
Or Motor Week
Snippet from Motor Week Road Test
The Toyota Camry has been the best selling car in the land for most of the last decade. But while the success of previous Camrys may have had as much to do with brand quality and reliability as actual design, the 6th generation car clearly stands on its own automotive legs. In fact we'll be shocked if the 2007 Toyota Camry doesn't continue its predecessor's winning ways. It's more refined, more powerful, very stylish, and safe, and even has efficient hybrid power. Indeed, the new Camry is going to be hard to beat.
Or The Family Car:
Snippet from The Family Car review of the 2007 Camry
After spending some time with the new Camry, I can say with confidence that this is by far, the best Camry ever made and should have no problems retaining its crown as the best selling car in America.
Now in which of these reviews do you find lukewarm to be a sentiment.
Oh, OK the Camry is not a sports car like a 3 Series or Mazda6.
Car & Driver:
Snippet:The Camry is the anti-sport sedan, so despite the SE badge, this refined family car can't be persuaded to play.
No, the Camry is not a sports car primarily in C&D's opinion because the VSC cannot be turned off for the likes of a professional driver.
And all of those publications have given glowing reviews of the Highlander as well....and none made any mention of the hesitation problems with them, now did they? But we all know it exists.
And I'm willing to bet they all did the same with the Avalon. Same story here.
I'll choose to believe the owners....not the "reviewers" who (most of which) drive these cars for a few hundred miles at best and have their reviews essentially written already. As we have seen here, some of these problems with the Camry don't show up until well over 1,000 miles.
Then again, the bulk of the complaints seem to center on the 6-speed automatic, which comes only with the V6. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a less-than-glowing mark for the V6 transmission, if there are enough data to separate the 4-cylinder and V6 models.
If not, I'm betting the first-year Camry will show above average reliability, considering that the 4-cylinder is far more popular than the V6. And I'll go farther out on a limb and predict an average or better mark for the transmission alone (if 4 and V6 are combined).
Bashers of CR, choose your best weapon and flame away!
I love my corolla, even after 16 years, it is great. But it is showing its age, so can not blame. I would like to stick with toyota products, if they get a fix. I don't think they will. because there was no fix for avalon.
Why won't it move if I press gas pedal? toyota should get a fix.
Until I showed her this board she had no idea what I was telling her about. Then I showed her how to make it occur. She asked 'Why would you do that?'
I am wondering if I can talk to people who bought camrys recently after the TSB's.
How do you make it occur? may be I have a bad driving habit???
Until I showed her this board she had no idea what I was telling her about. Then I showed her how to make it occur. She asked 'Why would you do that?'
I couldn't disagree more with this post....unless you mean you showed her by simply pressing down on the gas pedal in a normal manner either from a stop or while in the process of slowing down, then I would agree. It is a well-known problem experienced by "normal" drivers that, most importantly, don't have this problem in their other rides. So user error CANNOT be the problem.
Whether she learned how to drive the vehicle or it adapted to her inputs it just doesn't exist in ours unless I make it do so.
It appears to me that once the vehicle senses that you want to accelerate a lot faster, by giving it a constant and increasing pressure, then it's possible to floor it without much if any hesitation. At least this is the way our Highlander performs. The '07 Camry may have different characteristics and the '07 Camry is brand new. The Highlander is 2 y.o. to us so again it's used to us or we to it.
My point is that it's there in the Highlander it's just that for normal driving we never notice it.
In my experience I will never buy another Toyota or tell anybody else to buy a Toyota, because it is all about money and as long as they got their money it really doesnt matter about you in the long run, You are just another pissed of customer that isnt going to buy their product again. Well I have bitched all I am going to [non-permissible content removed] and I am not going to waist anymore of my energy dealing with Toyota, so I guess I can say Toyota you won, I give up. Trading in the car that Toyota is so impressed with my 07 camry se. I hate the car, but I am sorry that my car will be resold and someone else will have my problems. :sick:
- things like recalcitrant trannies, engines that 'spike', brakes that 'operate on their own' etc. etc. will become more and more commonplace as the 'government' is effectively legislating without regard to drivability issues. putting the car before the horse is governmental SOP!
- the manufacturers (Toyota included) do not at this time have a fix (only compromises) for the 'computer controlled' car given that the intervention levels for the programs for things like VSC must be set for some 'lowest common denominator' driver if it is to be effective as a safety feature in the first place. This means, that while VSC may 'save your bacon' it must also, in some manner interfere, with the ultimate evasive capability of your car (which would be where the car mags start griping).
The point I'm making - these 'problems' we (I own an 05 Avalon) are having is THE FUTURE and are ostensibly interrelated to those control systems and fuel economies that our erstwhile government has mandated. It will get worse before it gets better.
Can I get my Av to hesitate - sure - much as I'm relatively confident that you Camry owners can (5 or 6 speed). Is this tranny behavior consistent - yep. Is it possible to 'learn' to avoid it - fortunately (for me) also yes. Actually love my car, despite its tranny foibles. Should we have to - now that would be an interesting question to ask before you go out and spend 20 or 30 grand on anything; or, for that matter spend $100k on a Benz 7 speed auto SL (and others) that is apparently even worse.
While Toyota's approach to these problems may indeed be too aggressive and to some, bothersome - they are not even close to being unique to Toyota products. At the risk of sounding like some sort of shill, I would put my faith in Toyota's ability to work thru these 'drivability' issues faster and better than anybody else in the industry.
Jetjockg, I have an 07 Camry SE I4 5A with over 8000 kms now, and has not and does not have any sort of 'hesitation'.
You can say that again! The V6 hesitation that a number of people have been commenting on is in no way related to the I4 hesitation. In fact, if the people that experience it on the V6 would pay a little more attention, they would notice that it occurs when the throttle is opened quickly, and the transmission is in the process of downshifting while the rpm's are coming up. SIMPLE explanation! The I4 hesitation can occur with little, moderate, or large applications of throttle and are just a complete failure of gas to get to the engine. I've spoken on this a number of times and have related that the Toyota engineer confirmed a period of lean air/fuel ratio on throttle application, and by the way, good correlation of pedal application to throttle opening - which puts to rest the idea of throttle-by-wire issues.
Having spent many years tuning carburetors in British, German, and Japanese sports cars (prior to fuel injection), it really appears that the hesitation issue is caused by a flat spot when the throttle is opened quickly. This flat spot is simply caused by too lean a fuel/air mixture. It's entirely possible that Toyota in its continual search for the holy grail in enhanced fuel economy simply has the ECU program's firmware on the "hairy edge" of too lean a mixture, and this is exacerbated when the throttle is opened very quickly. It's most likely a firmware issue controlling either the fuel/air mixture, or the enrichment circuits durng an instantaneous throttle opening. And, this is all complicated by the electronically-controlled automatic, also constantly searching for the best ratio to provide the best fuel economy. In time, the firmware should be updated, or a change-out of the ECU may be required. In the meantime, it's a real problem for those who have to live with it.
Prior to today's extremely complicated fuel injection and engine management systems, it was just a matter of replacing an accelerator pump within the carb, or turning an adjustment screw or jet to increase the fuel/air mixture ratio - the problem could be fixed easily and in a few minutes for very little money. Unfortunately, such is not the case today with complex engine and fuel management systems.
Instead, I bought a 2007 Maxima with the CVT. The transmission and throttle response is instant. Absolutely no hestitation. Go drive one and see for yourself. (Plus, the CVT is considerably improved over that in the Murano.)
The Camrys have the problems they do because they were not properly engineered and tested before being released for sale.
I also have a 2004 Maxima with a 5-speed automatic. The throttle response is instant, also.
If anyone is a die-hard Toyota person, they should buy the Hybrid Camry with a CVT, instead of the regular Camry. I haven't read any bad reports on that car.
driver until it was totalled in a wreck two
months ago. I ended up getting a Lexus RX350,
as I was a little unsure about the CVT tranny
in the new Maxima, plus the car keeps growing
in length, which is somewhat problematic for
me for reasons I won't go into right now, but
I've been reading the boards on the tranny issues with the '07 V6 Camry's and to some extent some smaller issues with the Lexus ES350, because I must admit I am still trying
to get used to the way the transmission shifts
on my RX. I haven't heard of any complaints
over on the RX boards, at least not what sounds like I've experienced. I can't even be
sure that what I've experienced would be labeled as "hesitation".
I do know, for instance, when approaching an
intersection and slowing down so that I can
make a "rolling turn, for example, to the right, I get this feeling as if the tranny is
holding down the gears or something and slowing
down the car to where it sort of jars me. I
then feel I have to somewhat be aggressive in
using the accelerator because it feels as though the car is about to come to a stop. I'm
not sure if I'm describing this so that anyone
can understand what I'm saying here, but it has
been an adjustment( a big one, I must say, from
my '02 Maxima) in an otherwise flawless car!
Right now at this point, if I was asked what
I didn't like about my RX, it would be the strange way that the tranny works. Also, getting back to the CVT in the Maxima, I drove a Murano rental for about four days and I didn't particularly care for the CVT on the Mo. To me, it felt as if low-end power, such as starting from a stoplight, was somewhat anemic. I know some people like the CVT, but I also think it takes getting used to.
Good luck with the '07 Max. I think it's still
gonna be a great car. I still miss my '02 Max., although I love the RX too!!
good correlation of pedal application to throttle opening
are you sure that the toyota engineer confirmed good correlation (and no lag or non-linearity) between accelerator pedal position, and throttle body valve position?
if true, then the whole theory i was holding onto w.r.t. non-linearity in the accelerator pedal assembly, specially in light of the reports of people adjusting where they apply force to the pedal are suspect.
i never considered that the ECU might be holding off changing the duty cycle on the injectors. i don't know why exactly they'd purposefully want to let the vehicle go to a very lean condition with a rapid position change of the throttle valve... but then maybe there is some form of rate limiter or filter in the control unit to "slow-down" the response of the fuel enrichment to throttle valve position opening rates of change (open) as some safety / sensor validation / or other function.
interesting...
if someone would just instrument their car with one of the readers capable of capturing the toyota specific system parameters through the OBD-II interface.
Am I right in thinking that they slacked on the repair job?
Well, upon my PDI inspection I sat in the back seat, since it was cold, with my wife and the sale person in the front. I immediately notice clicking sound from the seat. Make the long story short there was a problem with back seat and they were unable to neither detect nor rectify the problem upon removal and inspection of the seat by Toyota technician.
I am now waiting for a new car as I refused to take position of this car. Meanwhile I am wondering if I am buying an overprice American car.
Does anyone else have initial quality issues with 07 Camry?
'07 noise in rear
I would contact national Toyota and talk to a technician from that end. I would also consider filing a complain about the solution upon your finding.
This worked out well for me on a similar situation with my 4Runner a few years ago.
I am now waiting for a new car as I refused to take position of this car. Meanwhile I am wondering if I am buying an overprice American car.
Explain. How do you consider this a overpriced American car. This is a Japanesse car asembled in America. The new Chevy Malibu may be a better buy and cheaper.
I am now waiting for a new car as I refused to take position of this car. Meanwhile I am wondering if I am buying an overprice American car.
This is an excellent example of the mindless stereotyping that prevails among many who assume incorrectly that everything from a Japanese maker is perfect and everything from the big three is junk. Sad, really.
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