I calculated that for driving 18,000 miles a year, a Prius would pass the break-even point when gas went above $2.50/gal. My assumptions included the cost of the alternative vehicle. So we bought a Prius, drove it 21,000 miles in the last 12 months, and went through the $3/gal. summer. (also got the $3,150 tax back )
Now I'm looking at a $25,000 minivan. At $3/gal, in 10 years we wil spend another $30,000 JUST ON GAS!
Too bad there are no diesel minivans on the market. It seems like we won't get any fuel-efficient large-vehicle options until some of these alt-fuel powertrains make it to the mainstream.
Before then it would be nice to see some diesels passenger vehicles. The Chrysler vans would have been the best candidate, using the new BlueTec engine, but now that Daimler Benz is dumping them I don't suppose that will happen. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
...she said her husband(my bil) had a spreadsheet that backed it up. i said 'send it to me and i will find the mistake'. i never got it. prius is a fuel efficient vehicle, but there are a lot of variables.
The number of variables is, in fact, infinite
But we were talking about just two: gas cost and car cost, or "premium".
Forget the spreadsheet, it would probably be like my tables (above). Can you "find the mistake" in that?
Honda has announced an ODY diesel for MY 2009. We'll wait to see if it appears. If the hybrid Sienna comes out then the diesel Ody will be there at the same time.
Honda can't let Toyota have another win ( Prius vs HCH and TCH vs HAH ) in the best in class fuel economy.
the most significant 'other' variable is miles driven. since my daughter got her license a year ago, and took over driving my SU... err, other vehicle( ), i might make 11000 miles driving my focus during the last calendar year.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Wait a minute, if they're gonna step in with help with ghastly why not throw in healthcare coverage for...more if not all Americans?
Congress isn't going to help with ghastly prices, unless they hit $5.50/gal for 87 no-lead. Even then it's no guarantee they'll find time and energy to assist. IMHO.
The governor of Hawaii tried it about year ago and it was the same problem that Nixon faced. The stations closed up. They are not going to buy gas from the distributor for $3 and sell it for $2. Same with the price of oil. We are in a World economy and have to take it as it comes. Or use less if you cannot afford the price.
The island state whose drivers pay the highest pump prices in the nation has given up on price caps after an eight-month, first-in-the-nation experiment. Some complained that the restrictions actually led to higher prices, because oil companies knew they could charge up to the maximum allowed.
"In a lot of people's minds, they thought the gas cap wasn't working," said Republican state Sen. Paul Whalen, a strong supporter of the price controls. "It was hard to generate lots of support for it because we're paying more than we ever were before."
Is Congress hoarding vast quantities of oil that's driving up prices? If not, how exactly can they "step in" to change the market? Since Congress doesn't have control over the supply of oil, their influence is limited to the demand side .... perhaps they should restrict the consumption of fuel ... or ban fuel squandering vehicles.... or require that private vehicles be banned from all routes shared with mass transit .... or ground aircraft ... or ......WHAT?
As a matter of fact they are hoarding vast quantities in case of National emergency. Last summer they were talking about releasing some , but that would have been more for a psychological effect on the public.
My car now is at 65k miles and averages about 21mpgs. If something comes along with lower miles and better gas mileage than what I have now that I could swap for even up. I would certainly have to consider it.
This chart of Dayton gas prices from Gas Buddy for the prior 30 days shows a reasonable association between the crude price and average prices for the area.
But starting April 1st the blue crude oil price declines while the gas price average rapidly rises and continues to rise; the rise is even more inversely related after 4/7/07.
Do we suppose there might be a profit motive (again) at work here rather than economic costs requiring a price rise?
The strategic reserve is not hoarding and if it remains a constant volume does not affect, nor should it be used to affect oil prices. Suggestions by polititions to use the strategic reserve to dilute oil prices are foolish in the extreme since the effect is short term and weakens our strategic position.
What would your definition of hoarding be then. If millions of gallons of oil sitting under the ground for future use is not hoarding I don't know what is.
I agree , any use of it (except in a true emergency) would only be a political move and would not effect long term prices.
In my view, hoarding is an arbitrary accumulation of a resource without a rational basis. A strategic reserve is necessary to provide some insurance against supply interruption of a critical resource.
I'd like to see that math as well! $17k savings in 57k miles!
I'd like to know where all the 8-10mpg pickups and SUV's are. Most that I see are getting 15-20mpg. GM's new full sized SUV's are getting over 20mpg with their V8's. I borrowed a Durango with a Hemi once and got 19mpg averaging 80mph. The fuel economy is not as bad as many make it out to be.
I agree with explorerx4's comment "anyone who drives a 10 mpg vehicle who can transparently change to another with a 30 mpg vehicle is stupid, if gas mileage is the most important factor. as opposed to amenities." I just don't think most people driving 10mpg vehicles can just change to a 30mpg vehicle.
While most of the time people drive large vehicles alone, it is usually cheaper to buy/own one vehicle than two for when they do need the larger vehicle. Anyone take a family vacation in a 30MPG vehicle? There isn't much room for luggage for 4 or 5 people. Or, a young family with all the stuff babies need. It's easy math to calculate the theoretical fuel savings for any two mpg numbers. That rarely means comparing apples to apples as far as features, equipment, and size/space of the two vehicles or as li_sailor alluded to "Non-vehicular requirements." Now all the people trading in their SUV's for crossovers are only getting 25-50% better fuel economy if they got even close to similar space inside. Many people buying hybrids were driving Civics/Corollas before so they are only getting 25-50% better economy too!
What am I doing to cope with higher fuel costs? Very little. I chose a minivan vs. SUV to get marginally better fuel economy for starting a family. But I'll never give up my pickup with the savings I get from doing my own projects vs. paying others. And, I work smarter to earn good raises to more than cover increased fuel costs. People have to do the math with their own budgets before deciding what to do if/when fuel prices rise. $3 or $4 gallon doesn't really effect my bottom line much or my habits.
$4/gallon gas will get many people thinking that "Gee, I don't really need a vehicle quite as large as the one I have had - I can go down a half size for the next one I buy".
So the 25-50% improvements in fuel economy that aaron t mentions with similar sized interior space will wind up being a choice people are glad of.
The thing about $4/gallon gas is that once the regular price is close to $4, the spikes will be close to $5. $5/gallon even for a month or two would crimp a lot of peoples' style, I'm pretty sure.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
All I can say is that it is about time that the prices in other states start to take a little of the burden.
No one seemed to care when California was paying over $3.00 a gallon for the past three months. And it has steadily gone up every since.
It has it seems tapered off and is holding steady at $3.40 to $3.68 per gallon for 91 Octane.
Since no one wants to do anything about the price we pay and everyone is it seems afraid to try anything that might make the oil companies stop ripping us off the only thing that I suggest is to drive slower and get better mpg.
Where already keeping are vehicles tuned, tires pressure monitored and everything else we can do to get better mpg, right?
Well try driving 55mph instead of 70mph on the Freeway. It might take you 15 more minutes to travel 70 miles doing 55mph, but it will also get you about 2 to 3 mpg more. And if you are like me and use up to 7 tanks a month, then the 2 to 3 mpg more adds up to a large savings.
Sure you will have to leave 15 minutes earlier for your appointments, watch as all the other drivers pass you by, and occasionally even get passed by 18 wheelers and people who can afford to waste the money driving fast towing trailers.
But I take it since we are all on here complaining in one way or another, and we don't like it when it cost us $80.00 to fill up because we are not rich. Sure some of us might have a few extra bucks, but we had to save that so we could go on a vacation and relax fishing or what ever. We don't want to have to waste it on fuel, right?
SO SLOW DOWN AND GET BETTER MPG.
In the the late 60ties and early 70ties when the price of gas went form $.40 a gallon to $.75 a gallon and you could only buy gas depending on the last number on your license plate, Odd or Even which meant odd or even day was the only day you could buy gas.
Our Government also lowered the speed limit from 65mph to 55mph. Our government knows that driving slower gets better mpg so why don't you?
I SAY IT AGAIN, SLOW DOWN TO 55 MPH AND GET BETTER GAS MILEAGE!
You wrote: "I borrowed a Durango with a Hemi once and got 19mpg averaging 80mph. The fuel economy is not as bad as many make it out to be."
That Durango did better than another Chrysler product. I recently rented a Jeep Grand Cherokee and drove it for 6 hours on the Interstate with the cruise set at 68 mph, and it barely scratched out 20 mpg. I was completely unimpressed.
You wrote: "Anyone take a family vacation in a 30MPG vehicle? There isn't much room for luggage for 4 or 5 people. Or, a young family with all the stuff babies need."
We take family vacations all the time in our Passat 1.8T wagon...last trip was to Ontario, Canada and we got 34 mpg (city to city) and about 28 mpg driving around Windsor and Essex County. 4 people on board, all luggage stored neatly in the 'wayback' and no complains about room - even had enough room in thhe back to buy a case of Canadian beer and a few bottles of Pelee Island wine on the way home. The same vehicle was purchased to a few years earlier to accommodate a stroller, pack n' play and luggage for trips when our youngest was a baby. No problems handling it all.
The whole time I while I was driving the previously mentioned Jeep, I kept thinking that it had little to no more room than my Passat, didn't handle as sharply, and got far less mileage. I kept thinking, "what's the big draw to these vehicles?" I don't get it.
You must travel a lot lighter than I do. We picked up a new 2005 Passat TDI wagon in Portland Oregon and drove back to San Diego. With two of us it was just adequate in size. I sure would not want to take more than small children in the back seat. With 4 adults it was not what I would call comfortable. I had to pull my seat forward for the rear passenger to not be cramped. There is NO way I will buy another small vehicle, except for running local errands. And as stated by others it is questionable if you can own two vehicles as cheaply as one large vehicle that will accomplish all your duties. Personally I think $4 gas on an average for the USA is a long way off. In San Diego it has not reached the peak from last year this time.
Part of the highway in my area still has the 55 mph speed limit, and I try to abide by it whenever I am on that stretch. It does help a lot in the effort to save gas, and I find that as long as I stay in the slow lane, people don't seem to mind me very much. They just go around.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
johnny4016: No one seemed to care when California was paying over $3.00 a gallon for the past three months. And it has steadily gone up every since.
California's gas prices have been higher than the rest of the nation's for quite some time. I visited the Bay Area in 2003, and noted that gas prices were almost $1 a gallon higher than the prices in Pennsylvania.
The price of a gallon of regular unleaded in Pennsylvania is now at about $2.70 a gallon. If California's prices are at $3.40 for regular, then the gap between prices in California and Pennsylvania, at least, has closed slightly in the last four years.
Your state's higher gasoline prices are a reflection of state taxes and environmental requirements, which have been approved by the elected representatives of the people. If Californians approve of the imposition of taxes and regulations on gasoline that drive costs higher, it is not the responsibility of Pennsylvanians (or anyone else).
As for slowing down to get better mileage - thanks, but no thanks. I'll take the lower mileage in exchange for making the trip much more pleasant. Sorry, but 55 mph was bad enough in the 1970s and 1980s.
20mpg is twice as good as the 10mpg thrown around in this thread. That's half the fuel used and half the cost as the original comparison. So, the $ savings from 20mpg to 30mpg is less. It's all about percentages. 10-30mpg is 300% where 20-30 is only 150%. $2/gal to $4 is 50% more. 3 to 4 is only 25%. If one adjusts their lifestyle to afford $4/gallon gas, $5 won't be as bad as the jump from $2 to $3.
Passat Wagon would cost at least $5k more than I paid for my minivan for similar equipment. How much gas does $5k buy? For my situation, I couldn't fit two child seats in the back of a Passat anyway. But I'm 6'4" tall which means every seat is all the way back on the track plus the seatback angle is reclined some which conflicts with either reverse facing child seats or toddler's feet.
I'm no fan of the Grand Cherokee. It's very small inside. I couldn't put a child seat behind me in that either. Durango is larger, as is almost every other mid-sized SUV/CUV. I am a fan of wagons, but the low seating position is a pain for me (bending over to buckle the kids). Minivans and crossovers are just the right height for most people to access the kids. Sliding doors make it even easier. I borrowed a Pontiac G6 for a few days and getting my 2 yr old daughter in the car seat was a PITA.
Some day I'll get back into a performance sedan/wagon, but it'll have to wait until child seat phase is over.
Well, I'm 6'2", and I can easily sit in the rear seat without my knees touching the back of the seat rest while leaving the driver's seat in my fave position. We had five medium suitcases in back (I dunno the dimensions - like the ones with wheels that you can carry on airliners), a small ice chest, and a camera bag. Somewhere I have a photo of the luggage compartment - if I find it, I'll post it. For us, four adults are pretty comfy. For five, it would be not so good (that driveline hump is pretty big).
Now, the previous Jetta wagon, which we looked at, was cramped in the back seat. Rear leg room was simply inadequate except for kids. I'm looking forward to seeing what the interior of the new Jetta wagon will be like.
When gas prices reach $4 per gallon i will consider: -Buy a old 3 cylinder Suzuki Swift/Geo Metro -Shave my legs and flash them on the side of the road and try to hitchhike to work. -Buy alot of .99 cent TV Dinner's and never eat out. -Dust my rusty bicycle and use it. -Or what the majority will do....deal with it, adjust and pay for it.
"Or what the majority will do....deal with it, adjust and pay for it."
The first four items are just some of the ways the public will deal with it and adjust to it. It is always intriguing to me that people consider gasoline less of a discretionary expense than other things in their lives: new clothes, eating out, vacationing far away or going to expensive destinations.
By saving some money adopting gas-saving driving habits, they could still have most of those other things as much as they did previously, but instead they cut back on all the other stuff just so they can continue driving to work going 80 mph in a solo-occupant SUV. :confuse:
Of course, all the other things they choose to cut back on buying instead are exactly what worries retail stores and economists whenever gas prices go up sharply...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My work took me often to Paris and London. When in either city I often drove one of three vehicles: a vintage Lincoln Continental Convertible, a British Ford, or a Datsun. IN all three cases I ponied up the Pounds, Frances, and Euros to buy petrol. After a while I got quite used to $5 a gallon fuel, though it was priced in litres, and Imperial Gallons and not U.S. Gallons. It cost me on average (then) $105 in exchange to fill the tank.
I did not change what I drove, how I drove or where I drove. What did change was planning my routes to maximise each trip and my time. The efficiency of this arrangement came home with me after many sojours to Europe. I figure that by coupling trips with location, and making best use of each trip lowers my fuel costs considerably, by about 35%. Wasting trips is something I don't do, unless I am purposely driving one of my vintage cars on the week-end for a show or for fun. That I classify as a different kind of trip, and not unlike buying a nicer bottle of wine for the week-end dinner with friends, than during the week alone.
I've never let fuel prices compromise what, when, where, or how I drive. We have to pay them no matter what, because it is not "let's make a deal" at the pump. We pay for the future fuel coming down the pipeline than the fuel we actually buy, which is what is drivng the price today. I can't fit am 8'x4' sheet of plywood in a Honda, so I have never owned one of those kinds of cars, much less haul some of the vintage car parts I often buy. For a daily runabout, you might find me in a Mini...but I won't give up what I normally drive. Then the mugwamps in middle east have won, along with the guys doing the statistical pricing in the oil corporations.
...at the end of the day, "I'll always have Paris" serves my memories when I pull up to the pump. The only difference is that I am now paying in dollars for what I used to pay in Pounds, and Euros.
I think a lot of Canadians are paying close to if not more than $4 a (US) gallon right now. I've heard reports of regular going for $1.20+ a liter up in BC (Canadian dollars).
If Tim Hortons has wireless, maybe we can hear from some Canadian drivers?
Don't need any Tim Horton's patrons to phone home...the web knows all, tells all!
Toronto gas prices, per http://www.torontogasprices.com/, looks to be about $1.029 Canadian per liter. 3.785 liters to the US gallon, so that's $3.895 for a US gallon in Canadian money. Per xe.com, you'll get $1.1365 Canadian for a US dollar. So, in Toronto, a US gallon of gas costs about $3.43 US.
Low price listed for Vancouver per http://www.vancouvergasprices.com/ is somewhere around $1.139/liter. That's $3.79 for a US gallon in US dollars.
Highest price for Vancouver was listed at $1.207/liter or $4.59 for a gallon or $4.02 for US gallon/US dollar.
Exchange rate as of 3:00 PM EDT, 04/13/2007.
Being a fairly frequent visitor to Canada, the first thing you'll notice is that there aren't as many SUVs on the road. You see a higher percentage of smaller cars. The Civic-class is king, from my observations. But even smaller cars are common, like the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, etc. Not to mention the smartcars...
I would buy a diesel Smart car if they were offered here. I tried to figure out how to smuggle one in. Not worth the hassle. They were everywhere in Victoria. The MB dealer told me they sell as soon as they hit the lot. There were also a lot of Prius cabs in Victoria.
I'd like to know where all the 8-10mpg pickups and SUV's are. Most that I see are getting 15-20mpg.
Most of the full size pickups and SUV's from Detroit (Suburban, H2, Silverado, Ram, etc) run at about 18 highway and 12 city from the EPA. Unfortunatly, those are fairly optimistic numbers (closed track, optimal temp, no air conditioning, etc) that don't match real world conditions or most peoples driving styles. If you commute 5 minutes to work with lots of stoplights, cold weather or A/C cranked, with a cold engine you'd likely see 8 mpg. If you're only driving long distances in highway conditions, they aren't so bad, but when you figure in real world driving, they're pretty abysmal.
I'll be interested in seeing what the new EPA numbers are next year after the EPA goes to their newer and more realistic testing method.
I have an F-150. The worst tank of all 4wd in snow was 10.5mpg in 110k miles. Most people with stock F-150's get 15mpg mixed. Dodge's are okay except those with 20" wheels. Still, they are getting 12-14mpg which is 20-75% more than 8-10mpg. 8-10mpg is low. I don't know of any even heavy duty pickup drivers that get that low except towing. Heck, V-10 F250 owners get 12-14mpg from what I read. I have not heard what the new GMT900's are getting real world compared to the EPA claims or 20+mpg.
If someone has a 5 mile commute to never warms up the engine, he's driving 5k miles per year and fuel costs are probably a small percentage of income.
Well they or somebody will have to do something as your average worker making poverty wages can't get to his McJob, because the price of gas is way to high. We are having reports of this problem around here in the Tejas, Panhandle iluv.
I'm very surprised the 110th Congress hasn't done anything YET to punish the oil cartel. If they try to falsily limit production create a bill to jail the board of executives. The bottom lines and record profits of this corrupt field show they are making money off of greed and need to be regulated.
My 1998 Suburban 4WD never had a tank under 12 MPG. It was usually 13.5 to 14 MPG. On a trip it would get about 18 MPG. It was dark blue and in So CA. So the AC was on year round. If you drive like a maniac you can get 10 MPG with a full size SUV. $4 gas would not dissuade me from owning another Suburban. I wish I still had mine and GMC had this hybrid PU truck. The Suburban was more useful and much better for hauling passengers. It got exactly what the old EPA ratings were 14/18 MPG.
I'm very surprised the 110th Congress hasn't done anything YET to punish the oil cartel.
Like what, nuke Saudi Arabia & Venezuela? What kind of control do you think they might have other than military? If they jail oil executives for making excess profits why not the executives of Microsoft, Dell and Toyota. Those 3 make a bigger percentage than Exxon.
Comments
Now I'm looking at a $25,000 minivan. At $3/gal, in 10 years we wil spend another $30,000 JUST ON GAS!
$4/gal? :sick: Trade it in on a diesel ASAP.
Before then it would be nice to see some diesels passenger vehicles. The Chrysler vans would have been the best candidate, using the new BlueTec engine, but now that Daimler Benz is dumping them I don't suppose that will happen. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
prius is a fuel efficient vehicle, but there are a lot of variables.
The number of variables is, in fact, infinite
But we were talking about just two: gas cost and car cost, or "premium".
Forget the spreadsheet, it would probably be like my tables (above). Can you "find the mistake" in that?
but it's not sold here (yet)
Honda can't let Toyota have another win ( Prius vs HCH and TCH vs HAH ) in the best in class fuel economy.
since my daughter got her license a year ago, and took over driving my SU... err, other vehicle(
I believe a steady climb will keep happening. I think it's time for Congress to step in !!! :mad:
Rocky
Wait a minute, if they're gonna step in with help with ghastly why not throw in healthcare coverage for...more if not all Americans?
Congress isn't going to help with ghastly prices, unless they hit $5.50/gal for 87 no-lead. Even then it's no guarantee they'll find time and energy to assist. IMHO.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Nixon was the last prez to try price controls -- it was a total disaster! I was around to witness this debacle.
The island state whose drivers pay the highest pump prices in the nation has given up on price caps after an eight-month, first-in-the-nation experiment. Some complained that the restrictions actually led to higher prices, because oil companies knew they could charge up to the maximum allowed.
"In a lot of people's minds, they thought the gas cap wasn't working," said Republican state Sen. Paul Whalen, a strong supporter of the price controls. "It was hard to generate lots of support for it because we're paying more than we ever were before."
Price controls fail
My car now is at 65k miles and averages about 21mpgs. If something comes along with lower miles and better gas mileage than what I have now that I could swap for even up. I would certainly have to consider it.
This chart of Dayton gas prices from Gas Buddy for the prior 30 days shows a reasonable association between the crude price and average prices for the area.
But starting April 1st the blue crude oil price declines while the gas price average rapidly rises and continues to rise; the rise is even more inversely related after 4/7/07.
Do we suppose there might be a profit motive (again) at work here rather than economic costs requiring a price rise?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I agree , any use of it (except in a true emergency) would only be a political move and would not effect long term prices.
I'd like to know where all the 8-10mpg pickups and SUV's are. Most that I see are getting 15-20mpg. GM's new full sized SUV's are getting over 20mpg with their V8's. I borrowed a Durango with a Hemi once and got 19mpg averaging 80mph. The fuel economy is not as bad as many make it out to be.
I agree with explorerx4's comment "anyone who drives a 10 mpg vehicle who can transparently change to another with a 30 mpg vehicle is stupid, if gas mileage is the most important factor. as opposed to amenities." I just don't think most people driving 10mpg vehicles can just change to a 30mpg vehicle.
While most of the time people drive large vehicles alone, it is usually cheaper to buy/own one vehicle than two for when they do need the larger vehicle. Anyone take a family vacation in a 30MPG vehicle? There isn't much room for luggage for 4 or 5 people. Or, a young family with all the stuff babies need. It's easy math to calculate the theoretical fuel savings for any two mpg numbers. That rarely means comparing apples to apples as far as features, equipment, and size/space of the two vehicles or as li_sailor alluded to "Non-vehicular requirements." Now all the people trading in their SUV's for crossovers are only getting 25-50% better fuel economy if they got even close to similar space inside. Many people buying hybrids were driving Civics/Corollas before so they are only getting 25-50% better economy too!
What am I doing to cope with higher fuel costs? Very little. I chose a minivan vs. SUV to get marginally better fuel economy for starting a family. But I'll never give up my pickup with the savings I get from doing my own projects vs. paying others. And, I work smarter to earn good raises to more than cover increased fuel costs. People have to do the math with their own budgets before deciding what to do if/when fuel prices rise. $3 or $4 gallon doesn't really effect my bottom line much or my habits.
So the 25-50% improvements in fuel economy that aaron t mentions with similar sized interior space will wind up being a choice people are glad of.
The thing about $4/gallon gas is that once the regular price is close to $4, the spikes will be close to $5. $5/gallon even for a month or two would crimp a lot of peoples' style, I'm pretty sure.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
No one seemed to care when California was paying over $3.00 a gallon for the past three months. And it has steadily gone up every since.
It has it seems tapered off and is holding steady at $3.40 to $3.68 per gallon for 91 Octane.
Since no one wants to do anything about the price we pay and everyone is it seems afraid to try anything that might make the oil companies stop ripping us off the only thing that I suggest is to drive slower and get better mpg.
Where already keeping are vehicles tuned, tires pressure monitored and everything else we can do to get better mpg, right?
Well try driving 55mph instead of 70mph on the Freeway. It might take you 15 more minutes to travel 70 miles doing 55mph, but it will also get you about 2 to 3 mpg more. And if you are like me and use up to 7 tanks a month, then the 2 to 3 mpg more adds up to a large savings.
Sure you will have to leave 15 minutes earlier for your appointments, watch as all the other drivers pass you by, and occasionally even get passed by 18 wheelers and people who can afford to waste the money driving fast towing trailers.
But I take it since we are all on here complaining in one way or another, and we don't like it when it cost us $80.00 to fill up because we are not rich. Sure some of us might have a few extra bucks, but we had to save that so we could go on a vacation and relax fishing or what ever. We don't want to have to waste it on fuel, right?
SO SLOW DOWN AND GET BETTER MPG.
In the the late 60ties and early 70ties when the price of gas went form $.40 a gallon to $.75 a gallon and you could only buy gas depending on the last number on your license plate, Odd or Even which meant odd or even day was the only day you could buy gas.
Our Government also lowered the speed limit from 65mph to 55mph. Our government knows that driving slower gets better mpg so why don't you?
I SAY IT AGAIN, SLOW DOWN TO 55 MPH AND GET BETTER GAS MILEAGE!
"I borrowed a Durango with a Hemi once and got 19mpg averaging 80mph. The fuel economy is not as bad as many make it out to be."
That Durango did better than another Chrysler product. I recently rented a Jeep Grand Cherokee and drove it for 6 hours on the Interstate with the cruise set at 68 mph, and it barely scratched out 20 mpg. I was completely unimpressed.
You wrote:
"Anyone take a family vacation in a 30MPG vehicle? There isn't much room for luggage for 4 or 5 people. Or, a young family with all the stuff babies need."
We take family vacations all the time in our Passat 1.8T wagon...last trip was to Ontario, Canada and we got 34 mpg (city to city) and about 28 mpg driving around Windsor and Essex County. 4 people on board, all luggage stored neatly in the 'wayback' and no complains about room - even had enough room in thhe back to buy a case of Canadian beer and a few bottles of Pelee Island wine on the way home. The same vehicle was purchased to a few years earlier to accommodate a stroller, pack n' play and luggage for trips when our youngest was a baby. No problems handling it all.
The whole time I while I was driving the previously mentioned Jeep, I kept thinking that it had little to no more room than my Passat, didn't handle as sharply, and got far less mileage. I kept thinking, "what's the big draw to these vehicles?" I don't get it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
California's gas prices have been higher than the rest of the nation's for quite some time. I visited the Bay Area in 2003, and noted that gas prices were almost $1 a gallon higher than the prices in Pennsylvania.
The price of a gallon of regular unleaded in Pennsylvania is now at about $2.70 a gallon. If California's prices are at $3.40 for regular, then the gap between prices in California and Pennsylvania, at least, has closed slightly in the last four years.
Your state's higher gasoline prices are a reflection of state taxes and environmental requirements, which have been approved by the elected representatives of the people. If Californians approve of the imposition of taxes and regulations on gasoline that drive costs higher, it is not the responsibility of Pennsylvanians (or anyone else).
As for slowing down to get better mileage - thanks, but no thanks. I'll take the lower mileage in exchange for making the trip much more pleasant. Sorry, but 55 mph was bad enough in the 1970s and 1980s.
Passat Wagon would cost at least $5k more than I paid for my minivan for similar equipment. How much gas does $5k buy? For my situation, I couldn't fit two child seats in the back of a Passat anyway. But I'm 6'4" tall which means every seat is all the way back on the track plus the seatback angle is reclined some which conflicts with either reverse facing child seats or toddler's feet.
I'm no fan of the Grand Cherokee. It's very small inside. I couldn't put a child seat behind me in that either. Durango is larger, as is almost every other mid-sized SUV/CUV. I am a fan of wagons, but the low seating position is a pain for me (bending over to buckle the kids). Minivans and crossovers are just the right height for most people to access the kids. Sliding doors make it even easier. I borrowed a Pontiac G6 for a few days and getting my 2 yr old daughter in the car seat was a PITA.
Some day I'll get back into a performance sedan/wagon, but it'll have to wait until child seat phase is over.
Now, the previous Jetta wagon, which we looked at, was cramped in the back seat. Rear leg room was simply inadequate except for kids. I'm looking forward to seeing what the interior of the new Jetta wagon will be like.
james
-Buy a old 3 cylinder Suzuki Swift/Geo Metro
-Shave my legs and flash them on the side of the road and try to hitchhike to work.
-Buy alot of .99 cent TV Dinner's and never eat out.
-Dust my rusty bicycle and use it.
-Or what the majority will do....deal with it, adjust and pay for it.
The first four items are just some of the ways the public will deal with it and adjust to it. It is always intriguing to me that people consider gasoline less of a discretionary expense than other things in their lives: new clothes, eating out, vacationing far away or going to expensive destinations.
By saving some money adopting gas-saving driving habits, they could still have most of those other things as much as they did previously, but instead they cut back on all the other stuff just so they can continue driving to work going 80 mph in a solo-occupant SUV. :confuse:
Of course, all the other things they choose to cut back on buying instead are exactly what worries retail stores and economists whenever gas prices go up sharply...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I did not change what I drove, how I drove or where I drove. What did change was planning my routes to maximise each trip and my time. The efficiency of this arrangement came home with me after many sojours to Europe. I figure that by coupling trips with location, and making best use of each trip lowers my fuel costs considerably, by about 35%. Wasting trips is something I don't do, unless I am purposely driving one of my vintage cars on the week-end for a show or for fun. That I classify as a different kind of trip, and not unlike buying a nicer bottle of wine for the week-end dinner with friends, than during the week alone.
I've never let fuel prices compromise what, when, where, or how I drive. We have to pay them no matter what, because it is not "let's make a deal" at the pump. We pay for the future fuel coming down the pipeline than the fuel we actually buy, which is what is drivng the price today. I can't fit am 8'x4' sheet of plywood in a Honda, so I have never owned one of those kinds of cars, much less haul some of the vintage car parts I often buy. For a daily runabout, you might find me in a Mini...but I won't give up what I normally drive. Then the mugwamps in middle east have won, along with the guys doing the statistical pricing in the oil corporations.
...at the end of the day, "I'll always have Paris" serves my memories when I pull up to the pump. The only difference is that I am now paying in dollars for what I used to pay in Pounds, and Euros.
DouglasR
If Tim Hortons has wireless, maybe we can hear from some Canadian drivers?
Toronto gas prices, per http://www.torontogasprices.com/, looks to be about $1.029 Canadian per liter. 3.785 liters to the US gallon, so that's $3.895 for a US gallon in Canadian money. Per xe.com, you'll get $1.1365 Canadian for a US dollar. So, in Toronto, a US gallon of gas costs about $3.43 US.
Low price listed for Vancouver per http://www.vancouvergasprices.com/ is somewhere around $1.139/liter. That's $3.79 for a US gallon in US dollars.
Highest price for Vancouver was listed at $1.207/liter or $4.59 for a gallon or $4.02 for US gallon/US dollar.
Exchange rate as of 3:00 PM EDT, 04/13/2007.
Being a fairly frequent visitor to Canada, the first thing you'll notice is that there aren't as many SUVs on the road. You see a higher percentage of smaller cars. The Civic-class is king, from my observations. But even smaller cars are common, like the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, etc. Not to mention the smartcars...
Most of the full size pickups and SUV's from Detroit (Suburban, H2, Silverado, Ram, etc) run at about 18 highway and 12 city from the EPA. Unfortunatly, those are fairly optimistic numbers (closed track, optimal temp, no air conditioning, etc) that don't match real world conditions or most peoples driving styles. If you commute 5 minutes to work with lots of stoplights, cold weather or A/C cranked, with a cold engine you'd likely see 8 mpg. If you're only driving long distances in highway conditions, they aren't so bad, but when you figure in real world driving, they're pretty abysmal.
I'll be interested in seeing what the new EPA numbers are next year after the EPA goes to their newer and more realistic testing method.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ratings2008.shtml
Also keep in mind that vehicles with a GVWR over 8,500 lbs do not get a EPA MPG raiting.
The H2 and three quarter ton Avalanche were ovefr 8,500 GVWR and so did not get MPG raitings.
They would be down in the low teens highway and single digits city for MPG.
If someone has a 5 mile commute to never warms up the engine, he's driving 5k miles per year and fuel costs are probably a small percentage of income.
Continue to be glad I have a Camry hybrid.
Probably feel a bit sorry for trading in a Prius for
the Camry. But not too sorry.
That includes long hwy trips of 2800, 2500, and 1500 miles - and the rest is mostly city driving.
I love it.....And if gas prices go to $4 a gallon, I will thank myself for buying a frugal car. And I will try to drive less.....:D
I'm very surprised the 110th Congress hasn't done anything YET to punish the oil cartel. If they try to falsily limit production create a bill to jail the board of executives. The bottom lines and record profits of this corrupt field show they are making money off of greed and need to be regulated.
Rocky
Well, since they have the oil and we don't, I'd like to know how you expect that to happen!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Like what, nuke Saudi Arabia & Venezuela? What kind of control do you think they might have other than military? If they jail oil executives for making excess profits why not the executives of Microsoft, Dell and Toyota. Those 3 make a bigger percentage than Exxon.
Venezuela's Chavez is lucky that George W. Bush doesn't have a son. Saddam wasn't that lucky --- George H.W. Bush had too many sons.