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Now I'm looking at a $25,000 minivan. At $3/gal, in 10 years we wil spend another $30,000 JUST ON GAS!
$4/gal? :sick: Trade it in on a diesel ASAP.
Before then it would be nice to see some diesels passenger vehicles. The Chrysler vans would have been the best candidate, using the new BlueTec engine, but now that Daimler Benz is dumping them I don't suppose that will happen. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
prius is a fuel efficient vehicle, but there are a lot of variables.
The number of variables is, in fact, infinite
But we were talking about just two: gas cost and car cost, or "premium".
Forget the spreadsheet, it would probably be like my tables (above). Can you "find the mistake" in that?
but it's not sold here (yet)
Honda can't let Toyota have another win ( Prius vs HCH and TCH vs HAH ) in the best in class fuel economy.
since my daughter got her license a year ago, and took over driving my SU... err, other vehicle(
I believe a steady climb will keep happening. I think it's time for Congress to step in !!! :mad:
Rocky
Wait a minute, if they're gonna step in with help with ghastly why not throw in healthcare coverage for...more if not all Americans?
Congress isn't going to help with ghastly prices, unless they hit $5.50/gal for 87 no-lead. Even then it's no guarantee they'll find time and energy to assist. IMHO.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Nixon was the last prez to try price controls -- it was a total disaster! I was around to witness this debacle.
The island state whose drivers pay the highest pump prices in the nation has given up on price caps after an eight-month, first-in-the-nation experiment. Some complained that the restrictions actually led to higher prices, because oil companies knew they could charge up to the maximum allowed.
"In a lot of people's minds, they thought the gas cap wasn't working," said Republican state Sen. Paul Whalen, a strong supporter of the price controls. "It was hard to generate lots of support for it because we're paying more than we ever were before."
Price controls fail
My car now is at 65k miles and averages about 21mpgs. If something comes along with lower miles and better gas mileage than what I have now that I could swap for even up. I would certainly have to consider it.
This chart of Dayton gas prices from Gas Buddy for the prior 30 days shows a reasonable association between the crude price and average prices for the area.
But starting April 1st the blue crude oil price declines while the gas price average rapidly rises and continues to rise; the rise is even more inversely related after 4/7/07.
Do we suppose there might be a profit motive (again) at work here rather than economic costs requiring a price rise?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I agree , any use of it (except in a true emergency) would only be a political move and would not effect long term prices.
I'd like to know where all the 8-10mpg pickups and SUV's are. Most that I see are getting 15-20mpg. GM's new full sized SUV's are getting over 20mpg with their V8's. I borrowed a Durango with a Hemi once and got 19mpg averaging 80mph. The fuel economy is not as bad as many make it out to be.
I agree with explorerx4's comment "anyone who drives a 10 mpg vehicle who can transparently change to another with a 30 mpg vehicle is stupid, if gas mileage is the most important factor. as opposed to amenities." I just don't think most people driving 10mpg vehicles can just change to a 30mpg vehicle.
While most of the time people drive large vehicles alone, it is usually cheaper to buy/own one vehicle than two for when they do need the larger vehicle. Anyone take a family vacation in a 30MPG vehicle? There isn't much room for luggage for 4 or 5 people. Or, a young family with all the stuff babies need. It's easy math to calculate the theoretical fuel savings for any two mpg numbers. That rarely means comparing apples to apples as far as features, equipment, and size/space of the two vehicles or as li_sailor alluded to "Non-vehicular requirements." Now all the people trading in their SUV's for crossovers are only getting 25-50% better fuel economy if they got even close to similar space inside. Many people buying hybrids were driving Civics/Corollas before so they are only getting 25-50% better economy too!
What am I doing to cope with higher fuel costs? Very little. I chose a minivan vs. SUV to get marginally better fuel economy for starting a family. But I'll never give up my pickup with the savings I get from doing my own projects vs. paying others. And, I work smarter to earn good raises to more than cover increased fuel costs. People have to do the math with their own budgets before deciding what to do if/when fuel prices rise. $3 or $4 gallon doesn't really effect my bottom line much or my habits.
So the 25-50% improvements in fuel economy that aaron t mentions with similar sized interior space will wind up being a choice people are glad of.
The thing about $4/gallon gas is that once the regular price is close to $4, the spikes will be close to $5. $5/gallon even for a month or two would crimp a lot of peoples' style, I'm pretty sure.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
No one seemed to care when California was paying over $3.00 a gallon for the past three months. And it has steadily gone up every since.
It has it seems tapered off and is holding steady at $3.40 to $3.68 per gallon for 91 Octane.
Since no one wants to do anything about the price we pay and everyone is it seems afraid to try anything that might make the oil companies stop ripping us off the only thing that I suggest is to drive slower and get better mpg.
Where already keeping are vehicles tuned, tires pressure monitored and everything else we can do to get better mpg, right?
Well try driving 55mph instead of 70mph on the Freeway. It might take you 15 more minutes to travel 70 miles doing 55mph, but it will also get you about 2 to 3 mpg more. And if you are like me and use up to 7 tanks a month, then the 2 to 3 mpg more adds up to a large savings.
Sure you will have to leave 15 minutes earlier for your appointments, watch as all the other drivers pass you by, and occasionally even get passed by 18 wheelers and people who can afford to waste the money driving fast towing trailers.
But I take it since we are all on here complaining in one way or another, and we don't like it when it cost us $80.00 to fill up because we are not rich. Sure some of us might have a few extra bucks, but we had to save that so we could go on a vacation and relax fishing or what ever. We don't want to have to waste it on fuel, right?
SO SLOW DOWN AND GET BETTER MPG.
In the the late 60ties and early 70ties when the price of gas went form $.40 a gallon to $.75 a gallon and you could only buy gas depending on the last number on your license plate, Odd or Even which meant odd or even day was the only day you could buy gas.
Our Government also lowered the speed limit from 65mph to 55mph. Our government knows that driving slower gets better mpg so why don't you?
I SAY IT AGAIN, SLOW DOWN TO 55 MPH AND GET BETTER GAS MILEAGE!
"I borrowed a Durango with a Hemi once and got 19mpg averaging 80mph. The fuel economy is not as bad as many make it out to be."
That Durango did better than another Chrysler product. I recently rented a Jeep Grand Cherokee and drove it for 6 hours on the Interstate with the cruise set at 68 mph, and it barely scratched out 20 mpg. I was completely unimpressed.
You wrote:
"Anyone take a family vacation in a 30MPG vehicle? There isn't much room for luggage for 4 or 5 people. Or, a young family with all the stuff babies need."
We take family vacations all the time in our Passat 1.8T wagon...last trip was to Ontario, Canada and we got 34 mpg (city to city) and about 28 mpg driving around Windsor and Essex County. 4 people on board, all luggage stored neatly in the 'wayback' and no complains about room - even had enough room in thhe back to buy a case of Canadian beer and a few bottles of Pelee Island wine on the way home. The same vehicle was purchased to a few years earlier to accommodate a stroller, pack n' play and luggage for trips when our youngest was a baby. No problems handling it all.
The whole time I while I was driving the previously mentioned Jeep, I kept thinking that it had little to no more room than my Passat, didn't handle as sharply, and got far less mileage. I kept thinking, "what's the big draw to these vehicles?" I don't get it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
California's gas prices have been higher than the rest of the nation's for quite some time. I visited the Bay Area in 2003, and noted that gas prices were almost $1 a gallon higher than the prices in Pennsylvania.
The price of a gallon of regular unleaded in Pennsylvania is now at about $2.70 a gallon. If California's prices are at $3.40 for regular, then the gap between prices in California and Pennsylvania, at least, has closed slightly in the last four years.
Your state's higher gasoline prices are a reflection of state taxes and environmental requirements, which have been approved by the elected representatives of the people. If Californians approve of the imposition of taxes and regulations on gasoline that drive costs higher, it is not the responsibility of Pennsylvanians (or anyone else).
As for slowing down to get better mileage - thanks, but no thanks. I'll take the lower mileage in exchange for making the trip much more pleasant. Sorry, but 55 mph was bad enough in the 1970s and 1980s.
Passat Wagon would cost at least $5k more than I paid for my minivan for similar equipment. How much gas does $5k buy? For my situation, I couldn't fit two child seats in the back of a Passat anyway. But I'm 6'4" tall which means every seat is all the way back on the track plus the seatback angle is reclined some which conflicts with either reverse facing child seats or toddler's feet.
I'm no fan of the Grand Cherokee. It's very small inside. I couldn't put a child seat behind me in that either. Durango is larger, as is almost every other mid-sized SUV/CUV. I am a fan of wagons, but the low seating position is a pain for me (bending over to buckle the kids). Minivans and crossovers are just the right height for most people to access the kids. Sliding doors make it even easier. I borrowed a Pontiac G6 for a few days and getting my 2 yr old daughter in the car seat was a PITA.
Some day I'll get back into a performance sedan/wagon, but it'll have to wait until child seat phase is over.
Now, the previous Jetta wagon, which we looked at, was cramped in the back seat. Rear leg room was simply inadequate except for kids. I'm looking forward to seeing what the interior of the new Jetta wagon will be like.
james
-Buy a old 3 cylinder Suzuki Swift/Geo Metro
-Shave my legs and flash them on the side of the road and try to hitchhike to work.
-Buy alot of .99 cent TV Dinner's and never eat out.
-Dust my rusty bicycle and use it.
-Or what the majority will do....deal with it, adjust and pay for it.
The first four items are just some of the ways the public will deal with it and adjust to it. It is always intriguing to me that people consider gasoline less of a discretionary expense than other things in their lives: new clothes, eating out, vacationing far away or going to expensive destinations.
By saving some money adopting gas-saving driving habits, they could still have most of those other things as much as they did previously, but instead they cut back on all the other stuff just so they can continue driving to work going 80 mph in a solo-occupant SUV. :confuse:
Of course, all the other things they choose to cut back on buying instead are exactly what worries retail stores and economists whenever gas prices go up sharply...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I did not change what I drove, how I drove or where I drove. What did change was planning my routes to maximise each trip and my time. The efficiency of this arrangement came home with me after many sojours to Europe. I figure that by coupling trips with location, and making best use of each trip lowers my fuel costs considerably, by about 35%. Wasting trips is something I don't do, unless I am purposely driving one of my vintage cars on the week-end for a show or for fun. That I classify as a different kind of trip, and not unlike buying a nicer bottle of wine for the week-end dinner with friends, than during the week alone.
I've never let fuel prices compromise what, when, where, or how I drive. We have to pay them no matter what, because it is not "let's make a deal" at the pump. We pay for the future fuel coming down the pipeline than the fuel we actually buy, which is what is drivng the price today. I can't fit am 8'x4' sheet of plywood in a Honda, so I have never owned one of those kinds of cars, much less haul some of the vintage car parts I often buy. For a daily runabout, you might find me in a Mini...but I won't give up what I normally drive. Then the mugwamps in middle east have won, along with the guys doing the statistical pricing in the oil corporations.
...at the end of the day, "I'll always have Paris" serves my memories when I pull up to the pump. The only difference is that I am now paying in dollars for what I used to pay in Pounds, and Euros.
DouglasR
If Tim Hortons has wireless, maybe we can hear from some Canadian drivers?
Toronto gas prices, per http://www.torontogasprices.com/, looks to be about $1.029 Canadian per liter. 3.785 liters to the US gallon, so that's $3.895 for a US gallon in Canadian money. Per xe.com, you'll get $1.1365 Canadian for a US dollar. So, in Toronto, a US gallon of gas costs about $3.43 US.
Low price listed for Vancouver per http://www.vancouvergasprices.com/ is somewhere around $1.139/liter. That's $3.79 for a US gallon in US dollars.
Highest price for Vancouver was listed at $1.207/liter or $4.59 for a gallon or $4.02 for US gallon/US dollar.
Exchange rate as of 3:00 PM EDT, 04/13/2007.
Being a fairly frequent visitor to Canada, the first thing you'll notice is that there aren't as many SUVs on the road. You see a higher percentage of smaller cars. The Civic-class is king, from my observations. But even smaller cars are common, like the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, etc. Not to mention the smartcars...
Most of the full size pickups and SUV's from Detroit (Suburban, H2, Silverado, Ram, etc) run at about 18 highway and 12 city from the EPA. Unfortunatly, those are fairly optimistic numbers (closed track, optimal temp, no air conditioning, etc) that don't match real world conditions or most peoples driving styles. If you commute 5 minutes to work with lots of stoplights, cold weather or A/C cranked, with a cold engine you'd likely see 8 mpg. If you're only driving long distances in highway conditions, they aren't so bad, but when you figure in real world driving, they're pretty abysmal.
I'll be interested in seeing what the new EPA numbers are next year after the EPA goes to their newer and more realistic testing method.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ratings2008.shtml
Also keep in mind that vehicles with a GVWR over 8,500 lbs do not get a EPA MPG raiting.
The H2 and three quarter ton Avalanche were ovefr 8,500 GVWR and so did not get MPG raitings.
They would be down in the low teens highway and single digits city for MPG.
If someone has a 5 mile commute to never warms up the engine, he's driving 5k miles per year and fuel costs are probably a small percentage of income.
Continue to be glad I have a Camry hybrid.
Probably feel a bit sorry for trading in a Prius for
the Camry. But not too sorry.
That includes long hwy trips of 2800, 2500, and 1500 miles - and the rest is mostly city driving.
I love it.....And if gas prices go to $4 a gallon, I will thank myself for buying a frugal car. And I will try to drive less.....:D
I'm very surprised the 110th Congress hasn't done anything YET to punish the oil cartel. If they try to falsily limit production create a bill to jail the board of executives. The bottom lines and record profits of this corrupt field show they are making money off of greed and need to be regulated.
Rocky
Well, since they have the oil and we don't, I'd like to know how you expect that to happen!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Like what, nuke Saudi Arabia & Venezuela? What kind of control do you think they might have other than military? If they jail oil executives for making excess profits why not the executives of Microsoft, Dell and Toyota. Those 3 make a bigger percentage than Exxon.
Venezuela's Chavez is lucky that George W. Bush doesn't have a son. Saddam wasn't that lucky --- George H.W. Bush had too many sons.