What does that mean. Are you saying that it costs twice as much to rent a place in your area compared to 4 years ago? I believe you live in San Diego and I'm very familar with that area, so I somewhat doubt that. If you own a home your housing costs only go up when property taxes/insurance go up and it's unlikely that could ever represent a doubling of housing costs. If your buying a home it is quite possible that the cost of a home has doubled but the cost of the home you are selling has also doubled, so its meaningless. The only group you could be talking about is a first time home buyer. That is a legitimate problem. Thankfully we are seeing a correction in the housing market, hopefully it will be a major correction.
I feel that the 3% annual inflation figures that the government publishes are pretty accurate. I know that I'm better off every year and my raises are less than 10%.
I've read a lot of your posts over the years. I'd describe your politics as moderate/conservative. You wouldn't expect this group to feel so much anguish over the plight of the poor. As I've said on many occasions. High gas prices has a way of bringing out the liberal in a lot of people.
5% inflation (which always excludes gas and food which for low income people is a big chunk of their income)and 5% Social Security might work , but last year the Social Security increase was lower than 5% - It was 3.2%. Before that 2.7%.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
larsb: All those bad laws you listed were DUMB laws too - but that did not make it legal to break them.
me: you're right it is not legal to break a law. That is like saying 1 must = 1. LOL What I'm saying is it is not moral to follow or enforce an immoral or injust law. And some laws are immoral and injust.
Just look back at Civil Rights (not that long ago!) and you'll see that the way people had to fight to get these immoral laws changed was by breaking the laws - sitting in the white section of the bus ... And the police and the judges who enforced these laws, were totally and unacceptably wrong! though legal! [non-permissible content removed] were legal (under German law of the time), but certainly not correct!
Mainly: there are already some people in this country, and many people around the world who can not afford gasoline, or afford much. And as the poulation of the world grows and other people become wealthier, who (what % of the population of a country) can afford gas may shift. So instead of 10% of the poulation here not being able to afford gas might go to 20%, I could see wealth going to China and their population of usage might go from 5% to 10%? We are in competition with everyone in the world for the same finite resources!
Yes I was thinking of those that would like to buy a home and cannot because of the huge inflation in home prices. I looked at a home in Hawaii that was sold in 2004 for $255k. They are asking $547k today. I hate to encourage that by even making a low ball offer. I do see it bursting as we debate.
Again gas at $4-$6 would not impact my lifestyle any more than it would the scoundrels in government that would impose it. I think it would force more folks onto welfare that could not afford to drive to their low paying jobs.
It seems that there should be a better way to get people to drive less than taxing them to death.
"The store owner could simply sell gas at the legal price and give coupons/rebates for future use."
Not in New Jersey and who knows how many other states. You can'y have discount coupons, can't give away a product with a fill up and basically can't give any kind of incentive discount on gasoline.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
What does that mean. Are you saying that it costs twice as much to rent a place in your area compared to 4 years ago? I believe you live in San Diego and I'm very familar with that area, so I somewhat doubt that. If you own a home your housing costs only go up when property taxes/insurance go up and it's unlikely that could ever represent a doubling of housing costs.
Rents really haven't gone up much in my area (Maryland suburbs) in the past four years or so. At least, not in the limited sampling I've done. I had a condo that I sold back in late 2004, for $185,000. It probably would have rented for around $1200 per month back then, and would probably rent for about the same now, although it would cost you more like $240-250K to get into a place like that now. But it probably would've rented for about $1200 per month back in 2002, when it would've only fetched about $125K.
Housing's a bit different though when it comes to inflation, because once you buy, you're pretty much locked into a fixed cost, as long as you have a fixed mortgage and not an ARM. Property taxes can go up, as can homeowner's insurance, condo fees, utilities, maintenance and repair costs, etc.
However, for people just entering the housing market, they definitely feel the pinch of the increased housing prices. When I bought my condo back in late 1994, I paid $84,000. I had to put 5% down. I was also 24 years old, and had only graduated college about a year before. It was the very definition of a starter home.
Fast forward to 2004. The guy who bought my condo was about 30, and was a manager at a bank or lending company or something like that. He made $50K per year. He ended up borrowing the full amount of the $185K. Heck, he even offered $3K over, to get it rolled into closing cost help, but his lender wouldn't approve that, so he had to come up with the cash. I don't think too many 24 year olds who are recent college graduates were springing $185K for a "starter home" in 2004. And it's a pretty safe bet that even fewer 24 year olds are moving into $240-250K "starter homes" today!
But, real estate is one of those things that varies greatly by region. There are plenty of areas that haven't seen nearly that type of run-up, and I'm sure some areas, like Michigan, have actually seen a decline in prices! One of my friends has parents back in Michigan. They're retired now, and trying to sell their place near Detroit. It ain't a pretty picture. But at the same time, while those prices are dropping, it's a moot point if people are getting laid off left and right.
As for property taxes, I remember for my house, mine were $2356 back in 2004, and went to about $2550 in 2005, and around $2800 in 2006. Electricity just shot up something like 10-15% last year. It would have gone up more like 30%+, but the gov't stepped in.
how would you like living in ct? my property taxes on my home is about 5600 per year. my bil on the other side of hartford pays about 10k for a slightly smaller home. cars are taxed in the same manner, according to a percentage of kbb values. when my daugther goes to college next year, i will save a lot of gas consumption. notice i am not saying money.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
It might be because the 5 months of horrible rain just came to an end, but in the past couple weeks I have noticed a lot more motorcycles on the road here. Doesn't seem like a bad idea, save for the local Stepford wife SUVs would scare me to death.
It seems that there should be a better way to get people to drive less than taxing them to death
Whether gas gets to $4/gallon through taxes or through market conditions doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. My primary interest isn't getting people to behave a certain way it is to accelerate the development of alternatives. High gas prices will do this better and faster than any other method I can think of. It will also create incentives to expand and improve public transportation and cause us to re-think how we are planning our cities and neighborhoods. Ultimately this will benefit everyone but the poor will probably benefit the most.
how would you like living in ct? my property taxes on my home is about 5600 per year. my bil on the other side of hartford pays about 10k for a slightly smaller home.
Ouch! I don't think I'd like that one bit, unless I had a high enough salary to offset it. FWIW, there are some houses in my neighborhood with property taxes up in the $5-7K+ range, but they're mainly big newer homes, built within the past 7 years or so, and ranging maybe 3-5,000 square feet (not including basement).
They re-assess here every three years, and I think my place is up for it this year. When it gets re-assessed, the garage I had built in 2005/2006 is going to show up on it. I wonder how hard that'll hit me for?
total inflation measure is a joke. the rules are changed to match the desired result.
I don't think so. There is a well defined basket of goods and services that gets priced and is used to determine these figures. The government also publishes a core inflation figure, which excludes food and energy. That figure has been running about 1% lower than total inflation. Another way to gauge inflation is to look at the bond market. Investors aren't going to be satisfied with a 5% before tax return if inflation is running higher than that.
probably takes into account monthly payments/rents on a residence, rather than purchase price? While it's quite possible that a house has doubled in value or even more over the course of 4-5 years, thanks to creative financing and such, it's quite possible that monthly payments have not. And rents certainly haven't.
Also, while real estate does go through growth spurts, it tends to revert to a mean, with long periods of stagnation or even deflation. For instance, I know my condo sold for about $16,000 back in 1974. I've heard that real estate tends to appreciate 8-9% per year over the long run. Well, at 8.7%, that would put my condo at $84862 in 1994 (I paid $84,000), $195K in 2004 (I sold for $185K, which is close), and $251K in 2007 (market value these days is around $240-250K).
Some people are getting fooled into thinking that these escalating prices will continue. Yesterday, I overheard one of my cow-orkers telling another one that she should buy a condo in her neighborhood; she'll double her money in 4 years! She could probably fetch $280-300K for hers right now. She paid around $90K for it back in 1991. It just blows my mind though, that she thinks it'll go for $550-600K in just 4 short years!
My guess is that she'll be lucky if she can still get $280-300K for it in 4 years. By then it'll be 20+ years old and having to compete with newer construction. Plus, people are really going out on a limb to buy these places now. Price them any higher, and that limb's gonna break!
Well said. Also, everyone should consider the price in other countries. We've got it bad from our perspective but if you live in Europe, life is quite more expensive in terms of energy costs. The US has the buying power so the costs are always lower.
It is what it is...$2-$3-$4, up and down but trending higher. We just need to adapt (Smart Car anyone?).
Time to buy a bike. I think a 650 CC Asian bike will get 45 mpg all day long.
I am thinking more with TPE on this. Here is an electric scooter that looks promising. Max Speed 62 mph / 100 km/h Acceleration 0-50 mph (80 km/h) - 6.8 seconds 0-31 mph (50 km/h) - 3.6 seconds Range 68 miles (110 km) @ 25 mph (40 km/h) Simulated urban driving - 5 hours
Here is the latest...looks like the Fed will hold rates steady during the summer, anyway. Kiss $3/gallon godbye, however! Summer is still 2 weeks away.
Prices Stable Except for Gasoline Friday May 11, 8:45 am ET By Martin Crutsinger, AP Economics Writer Wholesale Inflation Eases a Bit Even Though Gasoline Prices Surge
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Inflation at the wholesale level eased slightly in April even though gasoline prices surged for a third straight month.
Wholesale prices rose 0.7 percent last month, down slightly from a 1 percent jump in March, the Labor Department reported Friday. The big force driving the increase was an 8.2 percent jump in gasoline prices, which followed increases of 8.7 percent and 5.3 percent in the two previous months.
I am in the NJ chapter of the Higher Cost Auto Insurance High Club. This group tracks very close to the Top 3 Highest Property Tax Club which I am a dubious member of as well.
We do OK on the gas tax so far...that's the next club to be established.
Agree. When gas gets to $3 and above car purchasing choice changes. This was demonstrated last summer when trucks and suvs lost sales for a few months. As prices then fell these guzzler sales went back up. If we really want to reduce fuel waste,we have to get the price up. We could help this problem and reduce our deficit with a greater gas tax.
Wow, I need to move! We do have 10 acres of boondocks down in southwest VA. Last year its property taxes were $41.40. But then, there's nothing on it except the rusted-out, bullet-ridden hulks of a '58 Edsel and an early 50's Buick.
It'd be hell on fuel consumption down living down there, though! We have friends in that area, and I think they drive an hour and into the next state just to get to the grocery store!
I assume you mean the problem is that we use too much gasoline. I agree that raising the gas tax would reduce consumption. At least in this country.
But there are several problems with that, which have been brought here and on other topics before: 1) It hurts lower income people or rural people who drive more, harder. Certainly the person buying a $50K+ vehicle (and these vehicles are typically "guzzlers") could care less. 2) It might cause economic problems such as inflation, less spending on goods, and contribute to a recession. 3) It does nothing to stop the growth of usage in the rest of the world. 4) So if less oil is converted to gasoline, and the price drops slightly does this mean more oil simply gets used for other uses - electric generation, plastics ...
People have been proposing ideas since the early 1970's and we've had CAFE, and the rest of the world has expensive gas, and gas what - the amount of oil used continues to trend up.
I will probably a more efficient vehicle next time, and if I retire somewhere with a great climate, I'd do a scooter.
The less oil we use the longer it will last and the relatively less we will pay for it. The longer it lasts the more time we/world has to come up with alternatives. I prefer to pay an extra .50 a gallon to the U. S. treasury than to terror supporting nations. Put in a gas guzzler tax and reduce speed limit to 65 as well. Gasoline has doubled in just a few years and we don't yet have economic problems other than the usual cycles. Phase in the tax over 4 years if that is more palatable.
blufz1: Put in a gas guzzler tax and reduce speed limit to 65 as well.
Under CAFE, there already is a gas-guzzler tax.
We tried reducing the speed limit in the 1970s, and the only parties that benefited were the manufacturers of radar detectors and CB radios.
It's 2007, not 1947; 65 mph is too slow for today's vehicles on limited access highways. And I'd rather that our highly paid state police worried about more important matters than people driving 75-80 mph on limited access highways.
Been there, done that, and hated it. I'm not slowing down, even if gas hits $4.50 a gallon, and, judging by what I see daily on local highways (Pa. Turnpike, I-81 and I-83), neither are too many other drivers.
blufz1: The less oil we use the longer it will last and the relatively less we will pay for it.
me: yes, but you are ignoring what I said about about the rest of the world and the growth. A simple analogy is that there are 5 of us sitting around the table with enough food for us. Now you decide to eat slightly less; well the rest of us may just decide what the heck let's fnish it. And then there's the 6th person knocking on the door, who wants to join us!
And oil is not being used for gasoline and oil; it is used for plastics. And last time I checked China was growing 10%+ per year pumping out doo-dads using a lot of plastics.
You can personally reduce consumption and sacrifice but it is not going to reach your goal; because there are many other people in the world who will GLADLY INCREASE their consumption of what you would have otherwise bought. I hate to keep bringing up China, but research how China is outbidding others to buy up oil fields around the world. Oil will go to the high-bidder, and no one in the world is going to cry if you and I or the rest of the country don't use oil and gasoline. I can tell you it will bought up. if we want to shutdown every factory in this country to protect the environment, I can tell you the rest of the world would love to build the replacement factories!
Actually, that is how we will be forced to new technology which the US was leader in spearheading in the past.
The free (or otherwise) market will drive prices based on supply/demand. It is great to conserve and that can control the demand but EVERYONE needs to do it together to really be effective. :confuse:
I would be really willing to conserve, and I do by eliminating some discretionary driving. But I can tell you EVERYONE is not on board with conserving. Here's 2 thoughts.
1) When I go to a lake, or drive by harbors and see the many, many boats that people use just for recreation, I say am I crazy staying home to save a gallon of gas, when these people will otherwise burn 100 gal/day to water-ski? Or when I see large RV's on the road, and I say is this why I'm conserving - so they can go and have a good time?
2) What do you say to the people around the world who have conserved all their lives - meaning they never had money for gasoline. Now their economy is doing better and they have $ for a scooter or car. You can't really say to them that hey you can't START burning a gal. of gas/day because the typical American family needs 5gal of oil/day.
If you took all the oil production in the world and divided into the number of people, how much oil do we all get? Maybe 1 gal each for all our needs? I figured that out a few months ago but forget the answer.
You have got the BIG picture pretty well laid out. I feel the same way about conserving. I do it because I am frugal. Not because some hack progressive politician preaches conservation and lives in a 20 room mansion.
Exactly. I’m into saving my $$$, if I save a gallon of fuel so much the better, but my focus is my money.
I spend 15 days a month on a tugboat in Puget Sound and the number of pleasure craft burning fuel over a weekend is amazing. Should I be worried about conserving fuel for these people, NO!
As stated above, my focus is saving my money from the oil companies and with only a one hour round trip to work once a month, I’m doing rather well. :shades:
I'm not ignoring some of the good points above. But the fact is we can only control what we can control and that is our use. By increasing the gasoline taxes we accelerate invention and conservation by necessity,the mother of invention. Diesel is the first step toward using less oil and buying more time to come up with better alternatives. The lakes had a lot less boats last summer as prices hit $3. Less big Suvs and Pickups were sold. So higher prices do work in changing buying behavior. I understand that nobody wants to take expensive medicine that tastes bad but sometimes you gotta hold your nose and take it.
It took you all that time to come up w/ that? I'm letting the free market work,I'm just helping it along. It's guys like you that need the "help" of some sort of energy plan. You are the reason for "the plan." Please continue to make my point as many ways as you like.
I have to worry about how others are using the gas they buy if they're choking me to death however or if the environmental damage is not being assumed by the people who cause it. We are after all, all in the same boat here, it's not "us and them". Responsibility has to be a component of energy use--but fairly applied.
Example (exaggerated): If your town instituted a Pothole Tax, to pay for road damage---would you want to pay the same tax as the neighbor who drives an Abrams Tank to work?
from an article by jim jubak: " The core Consumer Price Index, which came in with an increase of just 0.1% for October and raised so much speculation on an end to worryingly high inflation, doesn't include changes in the price of food or energy, you see."
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Oh man the old saying about lies damn lies and statistics....I still remember the surprise I had the day I found out that the GDP includes appreciation in private home values. Say wait---isn't that just money out of one pocket into another?
Statistics like DOW and GDP and CPI are of no immediate consequence to the average person--they might even be close to meaningless in our lives with the way they can be presented.
What? So if a person is unemployed and his/her house rises in value, then he/she "added" to GDP? HUH???
Only the government could come up with such bull. They could literally then raise GDP by simply cutting interest rates and thus priming house values, regardless of any true output.
On the other hand, that must mean our economy is kicking tail right now because most of the country is in a housing slump and still the GDP numbers are not the worst. Maybe that explains why the price of gas is out of the world, because it certainly is only very distantly related to the price of oil.
Hmmm. I understand the gut response to the house value thing, but....surely you understand that rising stock value similarly is counted....and, since that is based on what stock buyers are thinking, what's different about that? It's all an increase in "wealth" (a concept I hope to truly understand before I die) and the basis of capitalism.
it's easier to sell your stock that has appreciated than it is to sell your house. And if you do sell your house, you still need a roof over your head, someplace!
You could also tap into your home equity, but that's not going to increase your net worth, just shift it from equity in the house to cash in your hand. Cash that has to be paid back...with interest.
Home equity really only helps you out if you're planning to sell and downsize to something less expensive, or move to a cheaper neighborhood.
Absolutely. I can't tell you how many people keep telling me how much cash I could have in my hand by tapping into equity or refinancing my house from a 15 year mortgage to a 30 year. That's all well and good but I'd rather do with less cash (the amount I'm use to) now rather than later.
I'll be sitting reasonably pretty 10 years down the road. No need screw with that for immediate gratification.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
A bit off topic but....it's not the "value" of houses that is rising...it's the same wood, carpeting, walls, lawn, etc. (unless you've done massive value-added restoration)....it's merely the PRICE that's risen. That is not product and that is not an increase in the value of the thing. That is merely speculation translated into the GDP as "wealth produced".
I don't THINK so!
Which reminds me of the price of gas.
On Monday gas is $3.19 and on Wednesday it's $3.25.
Say what? Why is it 6 cents more in two days? That "monday gas" was the same gas "in the line" as the "wednesday gas"...it's not "new, more expensive gas we had to make".
All they did was take a piece of chalk on a huge 50,000 gallon tank and cross out $3.19 and chalk in $3.25.
What will you do when gas price rises above $4 a gallon? Same as I did at $3, and $2, and $1-fill up my tank and drive away. No, I'm not rich. Not whining either. Until my only vehicles are a moped and Geo Metro instead of F150, SolsticeGXP, & some 4&6cyl motorcycles I don't think I have a right to complain too much. Look on the roads, we obviously aren't all that concerned. I'm not, learned my lesson years ago................. Kept being told "turn down the house thermostat" "use more efficient and lower wattage light bulbs" "use less power". Did all that and the utilities go to the PSC and get a rate hike because their income dropped with the lower usage. Final result? Sit in the cold and dark for the same cost as previously being comfortable? :confuse: No thanks, finally losing that limp from last time
I note each gas station that does that and see if there's really a pattern there. I don't mind a merchant who charges whatever he damn well pleases, but if he's tuning into CNN and whenever a pipeline blows up or some sheik pounds his fist, he's out with the ladder and hanging new numbers to take advantage of human fear and panic, I don't care for that one bit.
Worse yet, oil futures is probably the least regulated futures market in the universe. You can reap billions of dollars in an afternoon merely by starting a rumor and nobody can catch you. Of course, you can't cry "wolf" too often, but when you do, just hold out your hat for the money chute. I think they tried that a few weeks ago when "Iranian gunboats attacked an American vessel"....the rumor didn't take very well, but a few people panicked.
In 05 when the KAtrina prices hit we started developing line over here because the prices were rising so fast if you waited a week you could be paying half a buck more a gallon.
So, I was getting ready to go up north a couple hours and stop at the local station. The price on the sign says $3.09. While I'm about two cars away from service a guy goes out on a ladder and kicks it up to $3.19. While I'm getting gas the pump still says $3.09 on the sign on top of the pump but they are charging the higher price.
I had people telling me to take it to the state weights and measures people at the state but it seemed not worth my trouble as the communicating would have cost as much as the price difference.
I was pleased, however, when a few months later the station went out of business.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Comments
What does that mean. Are you saying that it costs twice as much to rent a place in your area compared to 4 years ago? I believe you live in San Diego and I'm very familar with that area, so I somewhat doubt that. If you own a home your housing costs only go up when property taxes/insurance go up and it's unlikely that could ever represent a doubling of housing costs. If your buying a home it is quite possible that the cost of a home has doubled but the cost of the home you are selling has also doubled, so its meaningless. The only group you could be talking about is a first time home buyer. That is a legitimate problem. Thankfully we are seeing a correction in the housing market, hopefully it will be a major correction.
I feel that the 3% annual inflation figures that the government publishes are pretty accurate. I know that I'm better off every year and my raises are less than 10%.
I've read a lot of your posts over the years. I'd describe your politics as moderate/conservative. You wouldn't expect this group to feel so much anguish over the plight of the poor. As I've said on many occasions. High gas prices has a way of bringing out the liberal in a lot of people.
me: you're right it is not legal to break a law. That is like saying 1 must = 1. LOL What I'm saying is it is not moral to follow or enforce an immoral or injust law. And some laws are immoral and injust.
Just look back at Civil Rights (not that long ago!) and you'll see that the way people had to fight to get these immoral laws changed was by breaking the laws - sitting in the white section of the bus ... And the police and the judges who enforced these laws, were totally and unacceptably wrong! though legal! [non-permissible content removed] were legal (under German law of the time), but certainly not correct!
Mainly: there are already some people in this country, and many people around the world who can not afford gasoline, or afford much. And as the poulation of the world grows and other people become wealthier, who (what % of the population of a country) can afford gas may shift. So instead of 10% of the poulation here not being able to afford gas might go to 20%, I could see wealth going to China and their population of usage might go from 5% to 10%? We are in competition with everyone in the world for the same finite resources!
Again gas at $4-$6 would not impact my lifestyle any more than it would the scoundrels in government that would impose it. I think it would force more folks onto welfare that could not afford to drive to their low paying jobs.
It seems that there should be a better way to get people to drive less than taxing them to death.
The store owner could simply sell gas at the legal price and give coupons/rebates for future use.
Not in New Jersey and who knows how many other states. You can'y have discount coupons, can't give away a product with a fill up and basically can't give any kind of incentive discount on gasoline.
Rents really haven't gone up much in my area (Maryland suburbs) in the past four years or so. At least, not in the limited sampling I've done. I had a condo that I sold back in late 2004, for $185,000. It probably would have rented for around $1200 per month back then, and would probably rent for about the same now, although it would cost you more like $240-250K to get into a place like that now. But it probably would've rented for about $1200 per month back in 2002, when it would've only fetched about $125K.
Housing's a bit different though when it comes to inflation, because once you buy, you're pretty much locked into a fixed cost, as long as you have a fixed mortgage and not an ARM. Property taxes can go up, as can homeowner's insurance, condo fees, utilities, maintenance and repair costs, etc.
However, for people just entering the housing market, they definitely feel the pinch of the increased housing prices. When I bought my condo back in late 1994, I paid $84,000. I had to put 5% down. I was also 24 years old, and had only graduated college about a year before. It was the very definition of a starter home.
Fast forward to 2004. The guy who bought my condo was about 30, and was a manager at a bank or lending company or something like that. He made $50K per year. He ended up borrowing the full amount of the $185K. Heck, he even offered $3K over, to get it rolled into closing cost help, but his lender wouldn't approve that, so he had to come up with the cash. I don't think too many 24 year olds who are recent college graduates were springing $185K for a "starter home" in 2004. And it's a pretty safe bet that even fewer 24 year olds are moving into $240-250K "starter homes" today!
But, real estate is one of those things that varies greatly by region. There are plenty of areas that haven't seen nearly that type of run-up, and I'm sure some areas, like Michigan, have actually seen a decline in prices! One of my friends has parents back in Michigan. They're retired now, and trying to sell their place near Detroit. It ain't a pretty picture. But at the same time, while those prices are dropping, it's a moot point if people are getting laid off left and right.
As for property taxes, I remember for my house, mine were $2356 back in 2004, and went to about $2550 in 2005, and around $2800 in 2006. Electricity just shot up something like 10-15% last year. It would have gone up more like 30%+, but the gov't stepped in.
cars are taxed in the same manner, according to a percentage of kbb values.
when my daugther goes to college next year, i will save a lot of gas consumption. notice i am not saying money.
Whether gas gets to $4/gallon through taxes or through market conditions doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned. My primary interest isn't getting people to behave a certain way it is to accelerate the development of alternatives. High gas prices will do this better and faster than any other method I can think of. It will also create incentives to expand and improve public transportation and cause us to re-think how we are planning our cities and neighborhoods. Ultimately this will benefit everyone but the poor will probably benefit the most.
Ouch! I don't think I'd like that one bit, unless I had a high enough salary to offset it. FWIW, there are some houses in my neighborhood with property taxes up in the $5-7K+ range, but they're mainly big newer homes, built within the past 7 years or so, and ranging maybe 3-5,000 square feet (not including basement).
They re-assess here every three years, and I think my place is up for it this year. When it gets re-assessed, the garage I had built in 2005/2006 is going to show up on it. I wonder how hard that'll hit me for?
I don't think so. There is a well defined basket of goods and services that gets priced and is used to determine these figures. The government also publishes a core inflation figure, which excludes food and energy. That figure has been running about 1% lower than total inflation. Another way to gauge inflation is to look at the bond market. Investors aren't going to be satisfied with a 5% before tax return if inflation is running higher than that.
http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/Inflation/US-Inflation/cpi.cfm
Also, while real estate does go through growth spurts, it tends to revert to a mean, with long periods of stagnation or even deflation. For instance, I know my condo sold for about $16,000 back in 1974. I've heard that real estate tends to appreciate 8-9% per year over the long run. Well, at 8.7%, that would put my condo at $84862 in 1994 (I paid $84,000), $195K in 2004 (I sold for $185K, which is close), and $251K in 2007 (market value these days is around $240-250K).
Some people are getting fooled into thinking that these escalating prices will continue. Yesterday, I overheard one of my cow-orkers telling another one that she should buy a condo in her neighborhood; she'll double her money in 4 years! She could probably fetch $280-300K for hers right now. She paid around $90K for it back in 1991. It just blows my mind though, that she thinks it'll go for $550-600K in just 4 short years!
My guess is that she'll be lucky if she can still get $280-300K for it in 4 years. By then it'll be 20+ years old and having to compete with newer construction. Plus, people are really going out on a limb to buy these places now. Price them any higher, and that limb's gonna break!
It is what it is...$2-$3-$4, up and down but trending higher. We just need to adapt (Smart Car anyone?).
Time to buy a bike. I think a 650 CC Asian bike will get 45 mpg all day long.
Regards,
OW
Max Speed 62 mph / 100 km/h
Acceleration 0-50 mph (80 km/h) - 6.8 seconds
0-31 mph (50 km/h) - 3.6 seconds
Range 68 miles (110 km) @ 25 mph (40 km/h)
Simulated urban driving - 5 hours
http://www.vectrix.com/default.aspx?portal=1&page=24
Jeebus. :sick: I got my property tax bill the other day: $465. :P Insurance for the S2000 is also about that much a year. :P :P
With that, I really don't have any cause to complain about gas prices, but I'm more than likely going to get a smart fortwo next year anyway.
Regards,
OW
Prices Stable Except for Gasoline
Friday May 11, 8:45 am ET
By Martin Crutsinger, AP Economics Writer
Wholesale Inflation Eases a Bit Even Though Gasoline Prices Surge
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Inflation at the wholesale level eased slightly in April even though gasoline prices surged for a third straight month.
Wholesale prices rose 0.7 percent last month, down slightly from a 1 percent jump in March, the Labor Department reported Friday. The big force driving the increase was an 8.2 percent jump in gasoline prices, which followed increases of 8.7 percent and 5.3 percent in the two previous months.
Regards,
OW
We do OK on the gas tax so far...that's the next club to be established.
Regards,
Wow, I need to move! We do have 10 acres of boondocks down in southwest VA. Last year its property taxes were $41.40. But then, there's nothing on it except the rusted-out, bullet-ridden hulks of a '58 Edsel and an early 50's Buick.
It'd be hell on fuel consumption down living down there, though! We have friends in that area, and I think they drive an hour and into the next state just to get to the grocery store!
But there are several problems with that, which have been brought here and on other topics before:
1) It hurts lower income people or rural people who drive more, harder. Certainly the person buying a $50K+ vehicle (and these vehicles are typically "guzzlers") could care less.
2) It might cause economic problems such as inflation, less spending on goods, and contribute to a recession.
3) It does nothing to stop the growth of usage in the rest of the world.
4) So if less oil is converted to gasoline, and the price drops slightly does this mean more oil simply gets used for other uses - electric generation, plastics ...
People have been proposing ideas since the early 1970's and we've had CAFE, and the rest of the world has expensive gas, and gas what - the amount of oil used continues to trend up.
I will probably a more efficient vehicle next time, and if I retire somewhere with a great climate, I'd do a scooter.
Under CAFE, there already is a gas-guzzler tax.
We tried reducing the speed limit in the 1970s, and the only parties that benefited were the manufacturers of radar detectors and CB radios.
It's 2007, not 1947; 65 mph is too slow for today's vehicles on limited access highways. And I'd rather that our highly paid state police worried about more important matters than people driving 75-80 mph on limited access highways.
Been there, done that, and hated it. I'm not slowing down, even if gas hits $4.50 a gallon, and, judging by what I see daily on local highways (Pa. Turnpike, I-81 and I-83), neither are too many other drivers.
Regards,
OW
me: yes, but you are ignoring what I said about about the rest of the world and the growth. A simple analogy is that there are 5 of us sitting around the table with enough food for us. Now you decide to eat slightly less; well the rest of us may just decide what the heck let's fnish it. And then there's the 6th person knocking on the door, who wants to join us!
And oil is not being used for gasoline and oil; it is used for plastics. And last time I checked China was growing 10%+ per year pumping out doo-dads using a lot of plastics.
You can personally reduce consumption and sacrifice but it is not going to reach your goal; because there are many other people in the world who will GLADLY INCREASE their consumption of what you would have otherwise bought. I hate to keep bringing up China, but research how China is outbidding others to buy up oil fields around the world. Oil will go to the high-bidder, and no one in the world is going to cry if you and I or the rest of the country don't use oil and gasoline. I can tell you it will bought up. if we want to shutdown every factory in this country to protect the environment, I can tell you the rest of the world would love to build the replacement factories!
The free (or otherwise) market will drive prices based on supply/demand. It is great to conserve and that can control the demand but EVERYONE needs to do it together to really be effective.
Regards,
OW
1) When I go to a lake, or drive by harbors and see the many, many boats that people use just for recreation, I say am I crazy staying home to save a gallon of gas, when these people will otherwise burn 100 gal/day to water-ski? Or when I see large RV's on the road, and I say is this why I'm conserving - so they can go and have a good time?
2) What do you say to the people around the world who have conserved all their lives - meaning they never had money for gasoline. Now their economy is doing better and they have $ for a scooter or car. You can't really say to them that hey you can't START burning a gal. of gas/day because the typical American family needs 5gal of oil/day.
If you took all the oil production in the world and divided into the number of people, how much oil do we all get? Maybe 1 gal each for all our needs? I figured that out a few months ago but forget the answer.
I spend 15 days a month on a tugboat in Puget Sound and the number of pleasure craft burning fuel over a weekend is amazing. Should I be worried about conserving fuel for these people, NO!
As stated above, my focus is saving my money from the oil companies and with only a one hour round trip to work once a month, I’m doing rather well. :shades:
1. Letting the free market work.
2. Minding my own business, and not worrying about how others are using the gas they buy. I highly suggest it.
Responsibility has to be a component of energy use--but fairly applied.
Example (exaggerated): If your town instituted a Pothole Tax, to pay for road damage---would you want to pay the same tax as the neighbor who drives an Abrams Tank to work?
I'm a big fan of:
incentive over regulation
reward over punishment
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
Statistics like DOW and GDP and CPI are of no immediate consequence to the average person--they might even be close to meaningless in our lives with the way they can be presented.
Mrshiftright
visiting host
Only the government could come up with such bull. They could literally then raise GDP by simply cutting interest rates and thus priming house values, regardless of any true output.
On the other hand, that must mean our economy is kicking tail right now because most of the country is in a housing slump and still the GDP numbers are not the worst. Maybe that explains why the price of gas is out of the world, because it certainly is only very distantly related to the price of oil.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
The idea of housing appreciation as "product" would even seem a stretch for government.
Every time you think you;ve heard it all....
Funny, ain't it
You could also tap into your home equity, but that's not going to increase your net worth, just shift it from equity in the house to cash in your hand. Cash that has to be paid back...with interest.
Home equity really only helps you out if you're planning to sell and downsize to something less expensive, or move to a cheaper neighborhood.
I'll be sitting reasonably pretty 10 years down the road. No need screw with that for immediate gratification.
I don't THINK so!
Which reminds me of the price of gas.
On Monday gas is $3.19 and on Wednesday it's $3.25.
Say what? Why is it 6 cents more in two days? That "monday gas" was the same gas "in the line" as the "wednesday gas"...it's not "new, more expensive gas we had to make".
All they did was take a piece of chalk on a huge 50,000 gallon tank and cross out $3.19 and chalk in $3.25.
THATS what gets me so mad!! :mad:
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
Same as I did at $3, and $2, and $1-fill up my tank and drive away. No, I'm not rich. Not whining either. Until my only vehicles are a moped and Geo Metro instead of F150, SolsticeGXP, & some 4&6cyl motorcycles I don't think I have a right to complain too much. Look on the roads, we obviously aren't all that concerned. I'm not, learned my lesson years ago.................
Kept being told "turn down the house thermostat" "use more efficient and lower wattage light bulbs" "use less power". Did all that and the utilities go to the PSC and get a rate hike because their income dropped with the lower usage. Final result? Sit in the cold and dark for the same cost as previously being comfortable? :confuse: No thanks, finally losing that limp from last time
Worse yet, oil futures is probably the least regulated futures market in the universe. You can reap billions of dollars in an afternoon merely by starting a rumor and nobody can catch you. Of course, you can't cry "wolf" too often, but when you do, just hold out your hat for the money chute. I think they tried that a few weeks ago when "Iranian gunboats attacked an American vessel"....the rumor didn't take very well, but a few people panicked.
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
So, I was getting ready to go up north a couple hours and stop at the local station. The price on the sign says $3.09. While I'm about two cars away from service a guy goes out on a ladder and kicks it up to $3.19. While I'm getting gas the pump still says $3.09 on the sign on top of the pump but they are charging the higher price.
I had people telling me to take it to the state weights and measures people at the state but it seemed not worth my trouble as the communicating would have cost as much as the price difference.
I was pleased, however, when a few months later the station went out of business.