Are gas prices fueling your pain?

blufz1

Blowers are lots less time/work.

explorerx4

diesel will start to cost a lot more as demand rises.
fuel mileage advantage will still be there, but most people only care about how much they pay.
in my opinion, anyway.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, but would an electric leaf blower have the power to blow my neighbor's dachshund down the block?

Oh wait...this is off topic isn't it.....SORR-EEE

MrShiftright
Visiting Host

PS: My current car gets about 36 mpg, so I was working this topic BACKWARDS...that is, how LOW would I go on mpg if I bought a new car? I figure I'd go down to about 29 mpg in this particular energy climate/pricing.

PPS: RE Honda and the CVCC in 1975. Not only did they develop a clean-burning Honda engine, they went ahead and took an old Chevrolet V-8 and made IT pass the same emissions test as the CVCC....true, only a lab test, not a production V8, but that ticked Detroit automakers off when Honda publicized it.

Detroit's in better shape than in 1979 at any rate.

blufz1

I meant we would be to 35mpg voluntarily by 2020 w/o govt. mandate. If they really want to do something for a change maybe they could mandate 45mpg. Dunno about anyone else but my next car is gonna be a Honda diesel.

gagrice

Leaf blowers ALL pollute the air. Dust is pollution as anyone living in the desert can tell you. Get a rake and do it the right way.

gagrice

So, let me guess the outcome of this...GM, Ford, and Chrysler will cry foul and try to sue the government and say that it can't be done, while Toyota or Honda or somebody just goes about their business and does it?

Actually I think that Toyota is in the middle of the protest. Only DC & Honda are not fighting the CAFE changes.

rockylee

Whatever, where did he say that OW ????? GM, is going to just have to expand it's 2-Mode Hybrid technology program and make it standard. They also will just have to build smaller scale Duramax's and kick butt.

-Rocky

blufz1

Get real,man. I've got a Texas size lot in Texas heat. I drive a Honda what do you drive?

nippononly

Hey Rock, you really think GM will do that? Put a 2-mode hybrid in every model? They could make some serious bucks doing that if gas gets to $4/gallon, I tell you that in all sincerity.

As for the diesel program, I say eliminate ALL gas engines from all half-ton and bigger pick-ups and their full-size SUV brethren...make diesels the only engine option....

jae5: sorry, I got a bit carried away in my response to you, but my response was as much to the other posters as it was to you. As for your original question, yes I think it likely that oil companies manipulate the market price of gas and oil in ways that no state's attorney general will ever be able to prove, and that is the American way, isn't it? Corporations run rampant over all the little people, and kudos to them if they can make a buck (or $100 BILLION bucks) doing it? So whether they are or they aren't cheating Joe Q Public, I guess I just don't think it makes a lot of difference, because no-one is going to stop them from doing it.

rockylee

nippon, the 2-Mode does much better than diesels in mpg. Especially in city mpg

-Rocky

blufz1

Diesels are more proven,practical,and reliable.

rockylee

Outside of a HD pick-up I am not confident about diesels as every example I've seen have been unreliable in cars.

Rocky

Mr_Shiftright

I'm with Rocky on this one----maybe in tractor trailers and locomotives but diesel cars haven't built up any stunning reliability records that I ever saw. But you are right, they are a tried and true technology. Longterm hybrid durability is not yet established but I suspect it will be better than the last generation of Mercedes, GM and VW diesel cars....which ranged from awful to sorta kinda average.

I think the new generation of diesels will be much better and I'd sure consider buying one if it could top 50 mpg.

Mrshiftright
Visiting Host

edwardsf

You have to quit jibing - that nasty boom keeps getting in the way. Look at my post again and please read the whole post. The first sentence was rhetorical irony and the rest was supporting the original poster's contention that GM whines about regulation while Honda innovates and wins.

edwardsf

It doesn't matter what kind of car someone else drives. Gasoline leaf blowers and lawn mowers produce 7X the emissions used per minute as an average car. If Texans got rid of their leafblowers and used a rake, they could: 1) reduce the worst air pollution in the nation and 2) get rid of that panhandle that many Texans seem to carry around their belt ...

orangelebaron

True that. I was going to buy a new VW Golf diesel in 2003 and I am glad I didn't. I have read too many horror stories from owners of VW diesels.
What's the point of buying a diesel to save money on gas if you end up spending more on repairs?

If gas goes over $4 I will just have to make less unnecessary trips.

blufz1

Who asked you? Let's see,you are from what land?....Let me guess?

edwardsf

Who asked me? Um, this is a forum where we all get to contribute. My post had to do with energy pricing and emissions. But it also had something to do with your post which cited your um, lack of energy to do household chores as an excuse to continue to pollute at high levels. This reminds me of a certain executive from your state who, when he is not gutting air quality rules, is taking a record number of vacation days.

blufz1

You're right but that was then and this is now. I think Honda and Toyota can do diesel better. Just my .02.

blufz1

And you are from?

rockylee

Well since neither of them have a diesel program here in the U.S. that is yet to be proven.

-Rocky

blufz1

Got em in Europe and UK. Check out the Honda UK site.

gagrice

Well I have 5 acres of citrus in San Diego, 2.5 acres of flowers in Hawaii, and 120 acres in MN. I would not allow the use of a leaf (dust) blower on my property. If I hire some one that is too lazy to rake I would fire them. That would include you and your nasty leaf blower.
I drive a GMC hybrid PU and an 18 year old LS400 Lexus. What has that got to do with pollution caused by leaf blowers.

blufz1

I see. Are all the workers that you hire to do your work legally in the United States?

gagrice

Absolutely. As I am for closing the border with big fences. I hire teenagers of friends and family. I do not trust just anybody with my trees and plants. I do not need that many as I do most of the work myself now that I am retired. They do make yard vacuums that do not blow dust all over everything.

daysailer

So far, Honda and Toyota have managed to do most everything better, I've no reason to doubt that deisels will be an exception.

But unless they manage to develop a deisel car with driving characteristics similar to their gasoline engine vehicles, I'll not be interested, efficiency notwithstanding. The appeal of Honda engines, in particular, has been that they are the very antithesis of the deisel in character.

circlew

I meant we would be to 35mpg voluntarily by 2020 w/o govt. mandate.

US manufacturers do not know how to do this. That is probably why we see so many joint efforts with new tech internationally.

Regards,
OW

circlew

I posted it about a month ago. He was referring to this new mandate. I agree they need to expand development. I believe the hybrids will proliferate in 2009 and beyond and electric will be the next tech to make it into the consumer arena in about 5 -10 years.

Regards,
OW

tpe

US manufacturers do not know how to do this

I think US manufacturers do know how to do this. They just don't know how to do it with the type of vehicles Americans like to drive. It's quite possible that building a 5,000+ lb truck/SUV that gets 35 mpg is unachievable, even with diesel. So if Americans want 35 mpg and this type of vehicle we are at an impasse and something has to give.

circlew

You are correct...this is the statement I was referring to:

Until the shoe drops, GM has no choice but push a giant snooze button on future rear-drive vehicles, from development of a super Cadillac based on the 2003 Sixteen concept, to halting plans to take the next-generation Impala rear drive.

“If the government wants a 30 percent improvement in fuel economy for each size class, I can’t get Zeta 30 percent more efficient,” Lutz said. “It would be like going from 20 mpg to 30 mpg. We don’t know how to do it.”

I believe we just have to keep trying. It CAN be done.

Regards,
OW

lemko

How does that GMC hybrid pickup do per fuel economy? I always thought the primary purpose for the hybrid was the truck as a mobile power supply for tools and such. Is performance affected by the use of a hybrid rather than a regular ICE?

bumpy

Fast
Large
Frugal

Pick any two.

bumpy

It helps the average mpg a bit, since it has regenerative braking and shuts off the engine at stoplights. Not that it matters, since GM cancelled it.

yoribe2

I'm pretty fortunate to be living in a part of the US with mild weather and to have a rather short commute - it's a 9 mile commute on flat surface roads with bike lanes. I'm also living in a part of the country where gas prices are the most expensive, currently at $3.55/galllon for regular. My 03 Accord 4-cyl (24city/33hwy mpg) is only getting 25 mpg, so this further justifies the bike commute.

nippononly

I am fortunate enough to live about 5 miles from work. In my Echo, that works out to $10/week in gas at $4/gallon, as I am in the habit of going home at lunch then returning after the lunch hour. If gas got really expensive, I could always start brown-bagging it and reduce my work-related gas expenditures by half.

andre1969

I'm in a similar situation, living about 3.5 miles from work. I just pulled up one of my credit card accounts, one that I only use for gasoline purchases. Looks like for this billing statement, I'm going to be around $300.

Sounds scary, but here's how that breaks down...

4/16/07: ~$27 to fill up my truck
4/16/07: ~$18 to top off my Intrepid
4/23/07: ~$16 to top off my uncle's Corolla, which I borrowed to take a trip to Carlisle, PA
4/24/07: ~$17 to fill up my uncle's Corolla when I got back. Worked out to about 37.4 mpg.
4/26/07: ~$40 to fill up my '79 New Yorker. Thankfully that's not an expense that comes around often.
4/26/07: ~$42 to fill up Intrepid. It was practically running on fumes!
4/30/07: ~$21 to fill up truck.
5/1/07: ~$23 to top off my '67 Catalina. Again, not something that comes up often.
5/4/07: ~$28 to fill up Intrepid
5/7/07: ~$40 to fill up truck, plus a 5-gallon can for lawn equipment
5/8/07: ~$25 to fill up Intrepid.

Now, a little explanation here. One of my roommates doesn't have a car. I've been letting him use my Intrepid to drive to work, which comes out to about 40 miles per day. And on his days off, I'll drive the Intrepid since it gets much better fuel economy than my truck.

This was also a bad billing cycle, because it included filling up my '79 New Yorker and '67 Catalina, which isn't a frequent occurrence.

So if you subtract out the NYer, Catalina, that trip I took in my uncle's Corolla, lawn equipment, and my roommate's driving, the pickup's bill is only about $76. If I drove it solely, not using the Intrepid on my roommate's days off, and not occasionally using the New Yorker, I guess it might come out to $100 per month. Gas has been running around $2.90-3.10 per gallon. So if it went to $4.00 per gallon, that theoretical $100 would jump to ~$133.

And my $300 credit card bill would've ended up being $400. Definitely a noticeable dent, but not one that would be a life-altering event. I figure when the Intrepid goes, it'll get replaced by something more efficient, like a 4-cyl Altima (and hopefully my roommate will have a car by then!). But I don't think it's worth it for me to buy a new vehicle just for the sole purpose of saving on fuel. Even at $4.00 per gallon!

gagrice

Performance is the same as any 5.3L engine. It has auto-stop which I would debate the mileage gain on. It has regenerative braking which seems to keep the brakes from being overworked. I never get the black residue on my wheels with this truck. At 9200 miles I have averaged a bit over 15 MPG. That is 90% city driving. The four 20 Amp outlets do come in handy with the regular power outages in San Diego. I would not be selling the truck if it was a crew cab.

nippononly

Holy cow! That's a lot of money for gas. Even with all the driving I do, and back when I still had my truck, I would rarely top $200/month, and that's at California prices ($3.50 for 87 octane currently).

bumpy

I've been driving 12-1300 miles a month lately, which works out to about $100 a month. That should come down to 800 a month now, so about $70 if 87 goes up to $3 here.

jiamin

My QX4 has 95% city drive and has ~ 15 MPG which is exactly what window sticker says. With current CA price and my commute (not long distance drive on vacation, etc.), I will spend nearly $1800 a year.

A few times I thought about getting rid of it and get a small car like Honda Fit or Nissan Versa, and never took any action.

I will probably just drive less and more conservatively. If I get a small car, I will loose lots of nice things in my QX4.

However, if gas price keeps climbing, there will be a point I will get a small car or hybrid, but I don't know yet where that point is.

anythngbutgm

My wife fills our MDX every 4 days at over 60 bucks a pop. As gas climbs, we are probably going to need to make a move here soon to something more efficient.

I really feel bad for those folks with the big SUV's like Suburbans and Tahoes. In fact my buddy has a Suburban to tow his boat and his wife takes the kids in and he's getting 12mpg with it. Costs almost 100 bucks a fill up!

No thanks. And even a diesel won't be that much better as the prices are the same as they are for petrol. There is just no need for something like that in todays day and age. :sick:

gagrice

I am not sure where you live. In San Diego diesel is on average 41 cents per gallon less than regular unleaded. The people with diesel are laughing when they fill their tanks. We could maintain a vehicle like a Suburban if it had a reasonable sized diesel. I think that 25 MPG would be about right for a 3.5L diesel engine in a Suburban.

andre1969

Holy cow! That's a lot of money for gas. Even with all the driving I do, and back when I still had my truck, I would rarely top $200/month, and that's at California prices ($3.50 for 87 octane currently).

I'd guess that bill I posted represents about 1100 miles on the Intrepid, maybe 350-400 with the pickup truck. I filled up my uncle's Corolla before borrowing it, as kind of a thank-you gesture. The second fill-up, of $17, represented about 228 miles round trip, from the gas station to Carlisle and back.

As for the New Yorker, well the last time I had filled it up was in November 2006! So that fill-up wasn't a regular occurence. And my '67 Catalina was before that!

I remember back in early 1996, when I started delivering pizzas, one month, March or April I think it was, I saved all my receipts for gasoline and then added them up at the end of the month. Came out to about $300, even back then, with gas only being around $1-1.25 per gallon! I could easily put 3-4,000 miles per month on the car, often at the rate of 200 per night.

That's probably why this $300 gasoline bill for my current billing cycle didn't freak me out too much. First off, it was abnormally high with the two other cars getting filled up. And second, I had about the same expenditure 11 years ago!

Of course, if I had to deliver pizzas today, I wouldn't be doing it in a 13 mpg 1968 Dart!

andre1969

I think that 25 MPG would be about right for a 3.5L diesel engine in a Suburban.

What kind of fuel economy would the current Duramax Diesel get in something like a 3/4 ton pickup or Suburban? I know the GVWRs are high enough that they don't get rated by the EPA, but I've always wondered.

My uncle had a used 1994 GMC Sierra 3/4 ton, 4wd, extended cab, 8-foot bed truck with the older-style 396/6.5 CID Diesel. He said it got about 20 mpg on the highway. When it ran, that is! It was in the shop more often than not, and he eventually gave up and traded it on a new '97 Silverado half-ton, 2wd truck with a 4.3 V-6, and he gets around the same, maybe 20 mpg on the highway.

anythngbutgm

Massachusetts. You're in Cali right? I saw the other day the price of petrol there was/is 3.85 per gallon! Here it hasn;t broken the 3 dollar mark (yet). Mid and high grade has however broken that mark. :sick:

Both my S2000 and my MDX take premium...

anythngbutgm

Hurricane season is just around the corner. If another Katrina sized Huriicane hits the US this year, look out. 4.00 gas would not be out of the question :sick:

Like everyone else, we are just riding the wave with the gas prices and housing crisis... (Hey I'm a poet :shades: )
Not sure where we'll end up, but hey, we've still got the shirts on our backs.

bumpy

GM has a 2.9L turbodiesel on tap for the Euro CTS. 400 ft-lbs of torque is plenty for even a giant soccer-mom appliance.

altair4

You wrote: If another Katrina sized Huriicane hits the US this year, look out. 4.00 gas would not be out of the question...

Heh, give the volatility of the market, I think the mere threat of a bad huricane in the Gulf region would drive up the cost 25 cents a gallon.

anythngbutgm

lol, so true.

The true problem with the current gas crisis is in the administration who has a history of ties to the Oil Industry. If anyone is enjoying these times it would be certain individuals within the party

Uh I mean yeah, inflation and production costs are really doing a number on the gas prices...

tkcolorado

This same thing happen last summer. Prices of gas always go up around the summer time, and last year we had the media hype of "the gas price is going to go to $4 a gallon". I also distinctly remember that the gas prices went back down and even touched the $1.80's (if it wasn't even lower).

Since I have been looking at cars for a while now I have noticed that the prices of SUV's come down when the price of gas goes up, and many people dump them. However, according to sales data people are still buying SUV's and large trucks. The prices of smaller cars (like Hybrids, civics, corollas, etc.) seem to go up (in fact over the past 2 weeks the prices of used corollas on lots has jumped $2,000+). So I suppose the reverse will happen on the other side of the summer months.

So to answer the question....Currently I drive a 93 Geo Tracker with over 160,000 miles. It gets about 22 mpg in town and 27 on the highway(manual). It cost me this week $24.00 for a full tank of gas, which will last me about a week. My driving habits have already changed. On the highway I go about 55-60mph. I am not the only one either as our recent trip to the Denver area the speed limit was 65 and I had a line of cars behind me and in front of me going about 55ish. I used to take the kids to a park across town by car, now we will just walk to our local school and use the playground. I will not drive to our mailbox anymore(we have those stupid community boxes, we have started to walk and eventually we will ride our bikes). We won't be driving to our usual places during the summer. Last summer I bought an inflatable big swimming pool for our backyard, that was a huge money saver in gas prices and recreation center fee's. Its going up this year (and it does not cost a lot to fill it and maintain it either when you really sit down and figure it out). I have started to go shopping at our grocery store once every 2 weeks( I was going 2 times a week). I schedule all our appointments for one day each week, prior we went to my sons therapy appointments on different days three days a week and that was back and forth, back and forth. I also fit in any other errands (like going to our library, getting anything extra we may need) in between the appointments.

I mean has anyone noticed the price of MILK???? It was $3.30 a gallon at Walmart!!! This is a result of gas prices going up. So we don't drink milk much, unless it goes on sale. The price of groceries is going up no doubt due to the price of gas going up. I have started making a LOT of things myself. So we are seeing our incomes decrease all around due in part to gas prices going up (retailers, services, etc. are having to increase their prices due to gas prices going up and just pass it along to us). I am making cuts to everything (even my utility use has decreased). The price of gas going up has changed A LOT in our household.

My next car?? Not a small compact car. I can't stand my current one (its the 2 door version). With two kids who are going to be hitting the 6' mark, we just will not fit well into a smaller compact fuel efficient car, and with a single parent income the ability to buy a larger car with hybrid technology is not going to happen. So im pretty much stuck with a larger car that gets 20ish in town and 30 on the highway, and just not driving as much.