GM diesels are still nasty things to drive....they need to be more sophisticated if they are going into luxury SUVs in the future.
Diesel fuel is about the same price as regular gas here in the Bay Area (maybe 15 cents less). There is still an incentive to drive a diesel at the moment if you are hauling loads, horses, boats, etc. but if you have a diesel car there is little or no economic incentive. Pump biodiesel is *very* expensive and "french fry oil" is kind of a frivolous concept for actual working people.
One interesting tidbit that stood out among others and may be a way to explain the fast, sharp jump in prices, was that the summer driving season is April - September. When did it jump ahead to April? I thought it started Memorial Day Weekend and ended Labor Day weekend?
I'd be glad that our commuter car is a Honda Fit and that our 7-passenger family car is a 4-cylinder Kia Rondo. We average 32 mpg on the Fit and 24 mpg on the Rondo in suburban driving. On the highway, the mileage is even better. We also are quite happy with the performance, quality and flexibility of both vehicles.
"I mean has anyone noticed the price of MILK???? It was $3.30 a gallon at Walmart!!! This is a result of gas prices going up. So we don't drink milk much, unless it goes on sale. The price of groceries is going up no doubt due to the price of gas going up."
Yep. Add to that the fact that corn is now subsidized at a guaranteed price to use it for ethanol. As a result both the feed corn and the corn we used to actually eat are going up in price. If you are farming corn this is great if you are not it stinks.
In addition to this little gift to big agriculture there is a tariff on over 50 cents a gallon on imported ethanol to protect the prices upward. Brazil would be happy to sell us all the ethanol we want cheaper than what we can produce it for. But, of course, it's not about what's best for the consumer - it's a gift to the farm lobby.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
seem to be all over the place. I quit drinking the good old fashioned whole stuff at the beginning of the year, when I started feeling like I was getting fat. Now I drink 2%, which is cheaper at some stores. Usually seems to range from $2.50 per gallon at Costco, on up to $3.50-$3.60 if I stop in at 7-Eleven. Usually at the Giant grocery store I shop at, it seems to range from $2.75-$3.39 per gallon.
I dunno what I'll do if milk gets too expensive? Milk the cats? The dog is a male, so he's off the hook. :shades:
I'm supposed to take my grandmother down to my Mom's place for Mother's Day. It's about 100-110 miles, round trip. Talked my uncle into letting me bum his Corolla again. So I guess gas prices really ARE having some effect on me. Once upon a time, I never would've even thought about asking him to borrow that car.
...will be driving my 1988 Park Avenue for a lot of long-distance trips as it gets at least 29 MPG on the highway. Funny how GM had so many fuel-efficient "full-size" cars not that long ago. I'd say my girlfriend's midsize 2005 Buick LaCrosse is slightly bigger and heavier.
... next time I get out to buying a new vehicle, I am basically buying the fuel-sippingest thing out there (with a little comfort). To heck with image or appeals to vanity - I now personally loathe these blood-sucking oil companies and the havoc they wreak on people's lives. Oil's barely gone up in the past 6 months, but gas is up almost 50%, so some form of price-gouge is apparent. I'd go out and buy a new car now but all things considered it is actually cheaper for me to drive my truck to death than buy a Fit or Yaris (when you count depreciation, insurances, taxes, and the like) so the truck will need to become a beater first.
And by the way, I make good money so it's not about affordability with me ... it's about not getting abused.
And those who blame the prez (of whom I am no great fan) are kidding themselves. Dems control Congress and I haven't heard them complaining since ... their campaigns when they said they would do something about it. Now that they are in they are loving the tax revenues as much as any pol and are mysteriously silent. Yeah ... what a mystery. :sick:
were able to get 29 mpg out of an '85 LeSabre...the good old fashioned kind with RWD and a 307-4bbl V-8. That was back when it was fairly new though, and on a trip out west. That car had a 2.73 axle and the overdrive gear would knock that down to about 1.82:1. So if they were loafing along flat terrain at about 55-60, without running the a/c (and this was in March), I could see it happening. IIRC, it was EPA-rated around 17/24. That was also back when we still had the national 55 mph speed limit, and Granddad usually wouldn't go too much above that. Now Grandmom, on the other hand... :surprise:
I had that car for a few years, and the best I could get on the highway was lower 20's. It was getting up in years and miles by then, though, and I drove a lot faster than Grandmom or Granddad would have.
As for FWD Electras and Park Avenues, those 1990 and earlier models weren't very heavy, so they were pretty economical. And the 3.8, even when it only had 165 hp or so, was no slouch in those cars. The Park Ave/98 got heavier with its 1991 restyle, though, although it did remain pretty economical for its size. I think the final 2005 Park Ave was rated something like 19/29?
The Lucerne, which more or less replaces the Park Ave and LeSabre, killing two possums with one rock, isn't too bad either, at 19/28 with the V-6. It's a pretty heavy car, too.
MERRILL, Wis. - A service station that offered discounted gas to senior citizens and people supporting youth sports has been ordered by the state to raise its prices.
Center City BP owner Raj Bhandari has been offering senior citizens a 2 cent per gallon price break and discount cards that let sports boosters pay 3 cents less per gallon.
But the state Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection says those deals violate Wisconsin's Unfair Sales Act, which requires stations to sell gas for about 9.2 percent more than the wholesale price.
It's not every day I read the name of my hometown on a major site like Edmund's. Man...the sad things that are going on there while I've been gone...
I have a lot of arguments about $4 gas, but I'll keep it simple. Pretty much, I have a bone to pick with all the environmental agencies and other groups that are restricting the widespread use of diesel engines in autos across the US. Diesels are lightyears better now than they were then and these groups are retarding the implementation of diesels on a wider scale, along with the inherent benefits. At this point, the extra cleanliness they're trying to get out of diesel engines is like trying to get blood from a turnip...not much to show for a lot of huffing and puffing.
Stupid.
Basic math dictates that with the far cleaner diesels we have today, the mileage benefits outweigh the amount of pollutants leaving the tailpipe. For example:
Gas-powered Car A gets, say, 22 mpg in the city and 28 on the highway. That's an average of 25 mpg overall. Diesel-powered Car B gets 36 mpg in the city and 47 mpg on the highway. Overall, that's an average of about 42 mpg.
Assuming both drivers drive the same amount per year, like 12,000 miles, the difference in saved fuel is 194 gallons per year. Assuming 10 million drivers in the United States with average fuel economy and gasoline-powered cars, the total savings (again, on average) would be 1,940,000,000 gallons of unburned fuel. This equates to about 46,190,476 barrels of oil every year! I know they're just numbers, but the idea behind them is staggering!
Is there an environmentalist out there who'd like to tell me that burning an extra 46 million barrels of oil is better for the planet? There is absolutely no way the clean-running diesels we have today would pollute more while burning an average of 194 fewer gallons of fuel each year. No way at all.
To any groups or agencies or bureaus or whatever that's responsible for this idiocy: get it straight, you nimrods. :mad:
I feel your pain on the regulation effort - in a WAY.....This has been MASS discussed on other boards.
The one thing I will say is that with diesel fuel being 41 cents cheaper per gallon in Slam Diego, this should encourage more people to buy diesels cars.
And when the "really truly clean" diesel cars from companies other than Mercedes (too expensive for Average Joe) and Volkswagen (questionable quality) hit our shores, things will improve.
Honda to have a clean diesel car here by 2009 model year.
Mr. Fogg, I can try to help explain. Diesel engines have different emission allowances than gas engines and are allowed to produce far more particulate matter than gas engines, even accounting for higher MPG. PM is a nasty pollutant. It is a huge contributor to lung diseases such as asthma and lung cancer that afflict mainly small children and the elderly. PM is a problem in the wintertime due to cold inversion layers and in areas that have natural sources of PM, like deserts (Phoenix) or in agricultural areas (Fresno).
with diesels has been a nasty one. Luckily, with VW, MB, and Honda all bringing out 50-state diesels next year, you can bet the Big 6 won't be far behind.
Around here, diesel generally costs a dime or two more than regular unleaded, but I will pay it if I can get a ULEV diesel that makes 50 mpg! :-)
If everyone plans for high gas prices next time they purchase a new car, whether next year or 8 years from now, the industry will be forced to offer more fuel-efficient alternatives in future. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If everyone plans for high gas prices next time they purchase a new car, whether next year or 8 years from now, the industry will be forced to offer more fuel-efficient alternatives in future.
Both my wife and I drive cars that are 13 years old. I plan to retire in the next 3 years, 4 max. By that time I would like to have a new car that is paid for. The criteria for this car is fuel economy, reliability, comfort and US made (in name, i.e. Ford, Chevy, etc.) I have yet to determine in what order these priorities will affect my purchase. I have always owned either Chevy or Fords and would like to continue supporting these products even though they upset me (my true feelings are not family oriented) due to their total exclusion of diesels in passenger cars and light trucks.
Another issue that is a recurring theme is the issue of fuel efficiency.
If overnight the nation started driving cars that cut fuel consumption by 1/3, who are the biggest losers? If you guessed the oil companies, wrong! Federal, State and local governments will loose big time.
You might call it a conspiracy theory, but considering the billion of $$ to be lost, it has some validation.
I believe Athens did ban diesel engines. Their climatology issues are similar to El Lay's. Congested City with onshore breeze surrounded on almost 3 sides by mountains. But the cities that really need to do it are Houston and Santiago de Chile. Horrible PM problems there. 1/3 of the kids breathing that crap will be sick for life.
It would get kind of hairy in some spots, but I have alternative routes to the driving route I take. There are quite a few bike paths I can use once I hit the half-way point. Since I don't live in the city anymore it is different, but there are a lot of state routes / 2-lanes in my neck of the woods so you have to pick the route accordingly.
We have quite a few showers in the water lab facility so that would not be a problem for me.
It's not like I have a gas guzzler, the Honda does pretty darn good, even the S-10 pickup was giving me 20 ~ 22mpg in stop-n-go driving. But as I stated, whether you drive a Civic, S-10 or whatever, we're all paying the same price!!
Yes. But it sure didn't feel like summer drying season around here in April. It was cold and snowed quite a few times here :sick:
I didn't believe the "prices will peak in May then drop" story of a few months ago either. And proof of that is in reading now that prices will hover in the $3 area after Memorial Day until August, then jump again to May levels or higher and taper off in September.
When will the crap end? It's worse than the housing run-up!
"If the dealers like them leave, a company like Shell can run its stations with its own employees and set its own pump prices.
"That way they really are controlling it from the well head to the gas pump,'' says DeCota. "Once the gas companies get control, you are going to pay the price."
lar: Hey, it's the law. Maybe a dumb law, but the law nonetheless. Compliance is not optional.
me: You do realize that it was once the law that only whites could vote too. And there have been many countries in recent history that had laws that murdered millions of people? You should really rethink that comment. There are plenty of laws that are unjust, arbitrary and subjective, and unfair!
Maybe everyone should think of downsizing. The upcoming Scion xD looks nice.
No, I don't need to rethink my statement. I said it absolutely correctly.
All those bad laws you listed were DUMB laws too - but that did not make it legal to break them.
As long as it is the LAW, compliance is NOT optional, regardless of how inhumane, stupid, unjust, arbitrary, and unfair they are.
It is your duty and mine to fight to change any laws like this, rather than just complaining about them.
Back On Topic: And yes, we all need to downsize to the smallest vehicle(s) which meet(s) our needs. That will lessen the impact of $4 gas to it's lowest possible level.
For some of us, maybe even most of us the issue isn’t 4 bucks a gallon anymore. In 2001 I sold my RamCharger, much to my sorrow, and got a small Saturn. The small car got more than twice the fuel mileage and was reasonably comfortable. We still had a boat but we had a slip in Newport Beach so all I had to do was pay a buck a foot to have it cleaned once a month instead of hauling in out in between visits to the beach. But having a boat and a car simply isn’t an ideal way to go so I bought a truck for doing all the things a car simply isn’t very good at, like camping, off roading, Home Depot stops, and hauling the quads or full bore rock climbing Jeeps to the desert. The Dakota with a V-8 logically seemed a good choice. It was smaller than the RamCharger but it turned out it didn’t get any better fuel mileage. Because of our lifestyle we would take the truck for just about anything but commuting. Now we are back in the 10 to 15 MPG club. To solve that problem we got a F-250 diesel. It would get 20 MPG pulling a house behind it but that is still far short of the 33 MPG the Saturn got. The Saturn was just too small so we got a PT cruiser and at least drove that more often than the truck. We got second car for my wife and that is how we got the Focus. By 2004 gas was going up and we had long since sold the Boat. If you think gas is expensive at a service station try a boat dock sometime. 2004 was also the time my Son moved to Texas and took the off road vehicles with him. I sold the PT, 26MPG, then I sold the F-250, 20MPG and lastly the 78 F-250 4x4 460, 9mpg. So with only the 33 MPG Focus left for 2007 4 bucks a gallon isn’t as big a problem as 2 bucks a gallon was early in 2006. At least it isn’t for me.
That sounds like me. I only have the little Kubota tractor left to play on and it uses about 5 gallons of diesel every 6 months. With 5k miles or less per year on the car and truck. four buck gas is meaningless.
For most of us, we can work around or absorb $4.00 a gallon gas. (I still get mad about it). It’s the people on borderline and fixed incomes that it hurts the most. These are the people that are really getting screwed and have little or no recourse.
You can say that again! In April 2005, barely two years ago, we had $1.50 gas in my area. Now it's $3.50, and barely got below $3 at any time during the winter. That's more than 100% inflation in cost in just two years! The folks on fixed incomes can't keep up with that kind of inflation for anything in their lives - their income is rising at a preset amount that is usually less than 5% per year. :-(
I feel bad for that guy in the SF Chron article today. I glanced through it this morning thinking it would be amusing, and realized it is another case of corporations squeezing the little guy, which is all of us AND independent owner-operators of gas stations. I'm not surprised it was Shell, they always seem to be the most expensive gas around.
If the article had been better written, we might have learned if the way Shell is treating that guy is common practice in the gasoline biz, for all the corporate gas stations. I would have liked to see something on that.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The folks on fixed incomes can't keep up with that kind of inflation for anything in their lives - their income is rising at a preset amount that is usually less than 5% per year.
Heck, it's not just fixed-income people. In my line of work, if you get an increase of 5% per year, that's considered pretty good! Now I know how to budget, and am famous for squeezing a nickel until the buffalo...oh, nevermind! So I'm not that concerned about $4.00 gas myself. Oh, I'll whine about it, don't get me wrong there! But gasoline is a relatively small portion of my budget.
Still, I do feel for people who are living on the cusp. And often it's not so easy for them to upgrade to a more fuel efficient car. Even if they'd save out in the long run, in many cases they simply can't afford the payment, or would never qualify for the car loan.
Then, at the same time, I look at these people driving around in their mammoth SUV's, guzzling performance cars, etc, and seeing them drive with the pedal to the metal. Evidently, they must not be TOO concerned about fuel prices. While it's not always so easy to change WHAT you drive, it's very simple to change HOW you drive!
For your reasons stated I am against taxing gas at a higher rate. Most people on a fixed income cannot afford an expensive new car. Keeping an older car is more economical than buying a new one to save a few MPG. I see the corporations and Congress in cahoots to squeeze us all. The American dream is fading quickly into oblivion.
What was interesting in Hawaii is the Shell station I used was cheaper than the discount stations. Gas did go up over there by 18 cents per gallon in 2 weeks. Still under San Diego prices. It is a first for me seeing that.
but on the whole, I wonder if it would do any good if the gov't set up some kind of program to get some of the poorer people who are saddled with gas guzzlers into a newer, smaller, more economical car?
There would be some up-front cost to the public, a result of getting these people a free or reduced-price car, but in the long run, the reduced emissions, fuel use, less fluid leaks from a newer car, etc, just might make up for that.
Unfortunately, a program like that would be ripe pickings for abuse. :sick:
That's more than 100% inflation in cost in just two years! The folks on fixed incomes can't keep up with that kind of inflation for anything in their lives - their income is rising at a preset amount that is usually less than 5% per year.
Total inflation, which includes gasoline, has been between 2 1/2 and 3 percent for the past couple years. So despite the rise in gas prices anyone who's been making 5% more per year isn't any worse off than they were a couple of years ago.
I don't understand what it is about gas prices that gets people so excited. How much we spend on gasoline is at least an expense that we have a little control over. I guarantee that most of us could reduce our driving by 10% without making any major sacrifices, if we wanted to. Most of us could buy more fuel efficient cars, if we wanted to. The problem is we don't want to. We'd rather complain and it's far more compelling to cite the plight of the poor.
Who ever started this myth that the poor can only afford to drive gas guzzlers? You can go get yourself an 8 year old Corolla or Civic for about $4k. If the poor can't afford this then they probably can't afford maintenance, insurance, registration on any car so the high gas prices are somewhat irrelevant. If the poor are driving gas guzzlers its by choice. Maybe driving a 20 year old Cadillac makes them feel better about themselves.
Who ever started this myth that the poor can only afford to drive gas guzzlers? You can go get yourself an 8 year old Corolla or Civic for about $4k. If the poor can't afford this then they probably can't afford maintenance, insurance, registration on any car so the high gas prices are somewhat irrelevant.
Yeah, but how many poor people can scrape up $4K to buy a car? Most of them would probably have to take out a loan, paying loanshark-esque interest rates, and then have to get full-coverage insurance because they've got a car loan. Much cheaper to just go pay cash for some beater. That way they can skip the high interest payment, get by with liability-only insurance, etc. They'll pay more for gasoline and they may pay more for repairs if the car keeps breaking down, but at the most they'll be paying it in lumps of $20-30 more every fill-up and maybe a few hundred bucks for a repair here and there. And if a repair is too catastrophic, then it's like the old Eazy-E rap song...say oh brudda, thow it in da gutta, and go buy anutta...
Basically, buying a $4K Corolla/Civic isn't something that poor people do. It's something that frugal people do to save money. Or something parents do to get their teen into a car. But it's probably still out of reach for many poorer people.
You hit that one right on the head. A corolla or civic for $4k has been run till it is on its last breath. Fixing them is much more expensive than an old Impala or Century. You might get a 10 year old Civic with 100k miles for $4k. Having renters I know how hard it is for them to pay the rent. Many are trying to feed kids and keep a 15 year old mini van running. Schools around here charge for the bus so they take their kids and pick them up. Those stated inflation numbers over the last few years are flawed for sure. Everything except maybe electronics has gone up more than wages. Maybe someplace it is like that. Not in So CA. Housing costs have doubled in the last 4 years.
Yes, but the nice thing about Corollas is they don't break often. TCO for Toyotas in general are some of the lowest and for fuel misers, the Corolla is a far better choice. :shades:
With 4 dollar gas on the horizon, how is HUMMER going to survive? I mean, there must be a breaking point where the satisfaction of owning one of these monstrosities is offset by the displeasure of paying 150 bucks just to fill the tank up. :confuse:
Maybe it's finally time a put a fork in this waste of space. Go back to the military from which they came. Besides, GM already has the market cornered in gas consumption, they won't miss little ol HUMMER in the world of gas guzzlers. They only have 10 others in that class to choose from :shades:
Comments
Diesel fuel is about the same price as regular gas here in the Bay Area (maybe 15 cents less). There is still an incentive to drive a diesel at the moment if you are hauling loads, horses, boats, etc. but if you have a diesel car there is little or no economic incentive. Pump biodiesel is *very* expensive and "french fry oil" is kind of a frivolous concept for actual working people.
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
One interesting tidbit that stood out among others and may be a way to explain the fast, sharp jump in prices, was that the summer driving season is April - September. When did it jump ahead to April? I thought it started Memorial Day Weekend and ended Labor Day weekend?
Maybe because of the new daylight savings time early start date this year? Apparently that's hammered TV ratings too.
Yep. Add to that the fact that corn is now subsidized at a guaranteed price to use it for ethanol. As a result both the feed corn and the corn we used to actually eat are going up in price. If you are farming corn this is great if you are not it stinks.
In addition to this little gift to big agriculture there is a tariff on over 50 cents a gallon on imported ethanol to protect the prices upward. Brazil would be happy to sell us all the ethanol we want cheaper than what we can produce it for. But, of course, it's not about what's best for the consumer - it's a gift to the farm lobby.
I dunno what I'll do if milk gets too expensive? Milk the cats? The dog is a male, so he's off the hook. :shades:
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
And by the way, I make good money so it's not about affordability with me ... it's about not getting abused.
And those who blame the prez (of whom I am no great fan) are kidding themselves. Dems control Congress and I haven't heard them complaining since ... their campaigns when they said they would do something about it. Now that they are in they are loving the tax revenues as much as any pol and are mysteriously silent. Yeah ... what a mystery. :sick:
I may have to look into a Golf/Rabbit diesel next winter when they go on sale.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I had that car for a few years, and the best I could get on the highway was lower 20's. It was getting up in years and miles by then, though, and I drove a lot faster than Grandmom or Granddad would have.
As for FWD Electras and Park Avenues, those 1990 and earlier models weren't very heavy, so they were pretty economical. And the 3.8, even when it only had 165 hp or so, was no slouch in those cars. The Park Ave/98 got heavier with its 1991 restyle, though, although it did remain pretty economical for its size. I think the final 2005 Park Ave was rated something like 19/29?
The Lucerne, which more or less replaces the Park Ave and LeSabre, killing two possums with one rock, isn't too bad either, at 19/28 with the V-6. It's a pretty heavy car, too.
Gas station owner told to raise prices
MERRILL, Wis. - A service station that offered discounted gas to senior citizens and people supporting youth sports has been ordered by the state to raise its prices.
Center City BP owner Raj Bhandari has been offering senior citizens a 2 cent per gallon price break and discount cards that let sports boosters pay 3 cents less per gallon.
But the state Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection says those deals violate Wisconsin's Unfair Sales Act, which requires stations to sell gas for about 9.2 percent more than the wholesale price.
That doesn't mean I can get a 60 MPG tank though.
Glad I bought my TCH to insulate myself somewhat from $4 gas !!
Funny how the subsidy keeps increasing.
I have a lot of arguments about $4 gas, but I'll keep it simple. Pretty much, I have a bone to pick with all the environmental agencies and other groups that are restricting the widespread use of diesel engines in autos across the US. Diesels are lightyears better now than they were then and these groups are retarding the implementation of diesels on a wider scale, along with the inherent benefits. At this point, the extra cleanliness they're trying to get out of diesel engines is like trying to get blood from a turnip...not much to show for a lot of huffing and puffing.
Stupid.
Basic math dictates that with the far cleaner diesels we have today, the mileage benefits outweigh the amount of pollutants leaving the tailpipe. For example:
Gas-powered Car A gets, say, 22 mpg in the city and 28 on the highway. That's an average of 25 mpg overall. Diesel-powered Car B gets 36 mpg in the city and 47 mpg on the highway. Overall, that's an average of about 42 mpg.
Assuming both drivers drive the same amount per year, like 12,000 miles, the difference in saved fuel is 194 gallons per year. Assuming 10 million drivers in the United States with average fuel economy and gasoline-powered cars, the total savings (again, on average) would be 1,940,000,000 gallons of unburned fuel. This equates to about 46,190,476 barrels of oil every year! I know they're just numbers, but the idea behind them is staggering!
Is there an environmentalist out there who'd like to tell me that burning an extra 46 million barrels of oil is better for the planet? There is absolutely no way the clean-running diesels we have today would pollute more while burning an average of 194 fewer gallons of fuel each year. No way at all.
To any groups or agencies or bureaus or whatever that's responsible for this idiocy: get it straight, you nimrods. :mad:
The one thing I will say is that with diesel fuel being 41 cents cheaper per gallon in Slam Diego, this should encourage more people to buy diesels cars.
And when the "really truly clean" diesel cars from companies other than Mercedes (too expensive for Average Joe) and Volkswagen (questionable quality) hit our shores, things will improve.
Honda to have a clean diesel car here by 2009 model year.
Hope this helps.
Around here, diesel generally costs a dime or two more than regular unleaded, but I will pay it if I can get a ULEV diesel that makes 50 mpg! :-)
If everyone plans for high gas prices next time they purchase a new car, whether next year or 8 years from now, the industry will be forced to offer more fuel-efficient alternatives in future. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Both my wife and I drive cars that are 13 years old.
I plan to retire in the next 3 years, 4 max.
By that time I would like to have a new car that is paid for.
The criteria for this car is fuel economy, reliability, comfort and US made (in name, i.e. Ford, Chevy, etc.) I have yet to determine in what order these priorities will affect my purchase.
I have always owned either Chevy or Fords and would like to continue supporting these products even though they upset me (my true feelings are not family oriented) due to their total exclusion of diesels in passenger cars and light trucks.
Another issue that is a recurring theme is the issue of fuel efficiency.
If overnight the nation started driving cars that cut fuel consumption by 1/3, who are the biggest losers?
If you guessed the oil companies, wrong!
Federal, State and local governments will loose big time.
You might call it a conspiracy theory, but considering the billion of $$ to be lost, it has some validation.
We have quite a few showers in the water lab facility so that would not be a problem for me.
It's not like I have a gas guzzler, the Honda does pretty darn good, even the S-10 pickup was giving me 20 ~ 22mpg in stop-n-go driving. But as I stated, whether you drive a Civic, S-10 or whatever, we're all paying the same price!!
I didn't believe the "prices will peak in May then drop" story of a few months ago either. And proof of that is in reading now that prices will hover in the $3 area after Memorial Day until August, then jump again to May levels or higher and taper off in September.
When will the crap end? It's worse than the housing run-up!
Petrol - the crack of the millennium?
"That way they really are controlling it from the well head to the gas pump,'' says DeCota. "Once the gas companies get control, you are going to pay the price."
Dealer prices gas over $4 in protest ( San Francisco Chronicle)
me: You do realize that it was once the law that only whites could vote too. And there have been many countries in recent history that had laws that murdered millions of people? You should really rethink that comment. There are plenty of laws that are unjust, arbitrary and subjective, and unfair!
Maybe everyone should think of downsizing. The upcoming Scion xD looks nice.
All those bad laws you listed were DUMB laws too - but that did not make it legal to break them.
As long as it is the LAW, compliance is NOT optional, regardless of how inhumane, stupid, unjust, arbitrary, and unfair they are.
It is your duty and mine to fight to change any laws like this, rather than just complaining about them.
Back On Topic: And yes, we all need to downsize to the smallest vehicle(s) which meet(s) our needs. That will lessen the impact of $4 gas to it's lowest possible level.
I feel bad for that guy in the SF Chron article today. I glanced through it this morning thinking it would be amusing, and realized it is another case of corporations squeezing the little guy, which is all of us AND independent owner-operators of gas stations. I'm not surprised it was Shell, they always seem to be the most expensive gas around.
If the article had been better written, we might have learned if the way Shell is treating that guy is common practice in the gasoline biz, for all the corporate gas stations. I would have liked to see something on that.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Heck, it's not just fixed-income people. In my line of work, if you get an increase of 5% per year, that's considered pretty good! Now I know how to budget, and am famous for squeezing a nickel until the buffalo...oh, nevermind! So I'm not that concerned about $4.00 gas myself. Oh, I'll whine about it, don't get me wrong there! But gasoline is a relatively small portion of my budget.
Still, I do feel for people who are living on the cusp. And often it's not so easy for them to upgrade to a more fuel efficient car. Even if they'd save out in the long run, in many cases they simply can't afford the payment, or would never qualify for the car loan.
Then, at the same time, I look at these people driving around in their mammoth SUV's, guzzling performance cars, etc, and seeing them drive with the pedal to the metal. Evidently, they must not be TOO concerned about fuel prices. While it's not always so easy to change WHAT you drive, it's very simple to change HOW you drive!
What was interesting in Hawaii is the Shell station I used was cheaper than the discount stations. Gas did go up over there by 18 cents per gallon in 2 weeks. Still under San Diego prices. It is a first for me seeing that.
There would be some up-front cost to the public, a result of getting these people a free or reduced-price car, but in the long run, the reduced emissions, fuel use, less fluid leaks from a newer car, etc, just might make up for that.
Unfortunately, a program like that would be ripe pickings for abuse. :sick:
Total inflation, which includes gasoline, has been between 2 1/2 and 3 percent for the past couple years. So despite the rise in gas prices anyone who's been making 5% more per year isn't any worse off than they were a couple of years ago.
I don't understand what it is about gas prices that gets people so excited. How much we spend on gasoline is at least an expense that we have a little control over. I guarantee that most of us could reduce our driving by 10% without making any major sacrifices, if we wanted to. Most of us could buy more fuel efficient cars, if we wanted to. The problem is we don't want to. We'd rather complain and it's far more compelling to cite the plight of the poor.
Look at this chart:
It shows San Fran at about $2.68 a gallon in April 2005.
The lowest it shows is about $1.90 a gallon in January of 2005.
No hope in sight for much lower prices.....
Yeah, but how many poor people can scrape up $4K to buy a car? Most of them would probably have to take out a loan, paying loanshark-esque interest rates, and then have to get full-coverage insurance because they've got a car loan. Much cheaper to just go pay cash for some beater. That way they can skip the high interest payment, get by with liability-only insurance, etc. They'll pay more for gasoline and they may pay more for repairs if the car keeps breaking down, but at the most they'll be paying it in lumps of $20-30 more every fill-up and maybe a few hundred bucks for a repair here and there. And if a repair is too catastrophic, then it's like the old Eazy-E rap song...say oh brudda, thow it in da gutta, and go buy anutta...
Basically, buying a $4K Corolla/Civic isn't something that poor people do. It's something that frugal people do to save money. Or something parents do to get their teen into a car. But it's probably still out of reach for many poorer people.
Maybe it's finally time a put a fork in this waste of space. Go back to the military from which they came. Besides, GM already has the market cornered in gas consumption, they won't miss little ol HUMMER in the world of gas guzzlers. They only have 10 others in that class to choose from :shades: