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Sunroof leak on my Saturn Outlook

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Comments

  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    Our pleasure!
    Stay dry, and have a safe trip out to LA!

    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • bbpluggerbbplugger Member Posts: 3
    Glad to connect with others experiencing similar problems. Since my 2008 Outlook bought new has always been garaged, I didn't realize there was a leak problem until yesterday when it kept running after I turned the key to the off position. The engine kept "dieseling" and then would start again when I turned the key on without employing the ignition. This morning my battery was dead and the AAA guy said his test indicated that something that stayed on overnight had drained the battery (which was unharmed). This seemed impossible since the Outlook has a fail safe feature that turns everything off 45 minutes after the car is turned off. Googling indicated the cause of both problems could be a leak, and it happened to be a very rainy day in Austin. When I walked out to check, the dash on the driver's side was covered with water as was the carpet on both sides.

    I took it to the dealer and someone found records of other reports and said that it usually takes a long time before fixes finally become available. Has anyone pursued a class action suit like the one about Ion and Vue transmissions that GM eventually settled?
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    Good morning bbplugger,
    I'm sorry to hear that your Saturn died on you, and that it has a leak. If we can be of any assistance in working with your dealership, please send us an email at the address located in my profile (include your name/Edmunds username, your address and phone, the last 8 digits of your VIN and current mileage, and the name of your dealership). My coworker Christina, who answers incoming emails from the forum, will assist you further.

    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Hello bbplugger,
    As you have read we too have the same issues resulting in a flooded fuse box from the the drain tubes; there was also water intrusion that killed the tailgate motor as well. We had water pouring through the visor clip flooding our passenger seat and floorboard. The first fix did not work, the 2nd day we had it home from the shop we noticed the horn didn't work and our screen on our radio/navigation was black. We took it back and sure enough there was another leak. Our seal around the front sunroof was replaced along with the glass.
    With all the research we have found it's the same problem for folks over, and over again, just different authors. I feel this is a huge safety issue as well as I can't imagine if I/we were driving on the freeway and our cars decided to die. I believe these water leaks to be very dangerous when water intrusion floods fuse boxes along with the air bags.
    There are bulletin's that your GM shop can see if the repairs were done to your vehicle. Even though our car had these recall/bulletins done the problem GM was hoping to prevent still happened.
    Call GM as Sarah has requested you to do before you pay for any work performed.
    We were told that these drain tubes that have caused so many problems for their customers were not designed to handle to much water!! Hard to believe that GM would be so negligent. These problems also devalue our cars!!
    Best wishes to you!
  • nugget53nugget53 Member Posts: 10
    You will see from some posts that I made last Fall that I also had leaking sunroof problems (which I thought were fixed!) on a 2008 Outlook. Actually, the leak WAS fixed for about 4-5 months, then suddenly came back as bad as it had ever been. After reading all of the horror stories on this forum, and knowing the history of this problem with this model, I took my Outlook to a long-time auto glass dealer in my town as a last resort and asked his opinion. He informed me that a local GM dealer had brought him one of these leakers to work on because they could not get the leak stopped after multiple attempts. He and his guys took the top of the vehicle completely apart and found out that even with their years of experience (40+ years!), they couldn't fix it either! He advised me to get rid of the Outlook while it still had some trade-in value. Like many others who have posted here, I traded it in as quick as I could.....for a Kia Sorento!! I have no beef with GM.....the GM representatives and my local dealer were helpful and couteous, and GM paid for the repairs that were done; however, the aggravation was just too much, and the agony of just waiting for something else to go wrong as a result of the leak wasn't worth the hassle. Others have said on this forum that they will never buy GM again.....I won't say that! I have always had good luck with GM products until this one and would buy GM again in a heartbeat if they offered the right model at the right price and the deal was good. For now, I'll just chalk up the Saturn Outlook as a bad experience and wish everyone that is still stuck with one good luck in fighting these leaks and the unavoidable electrical issues that the leaks are causing. As for me, regardless of what year, make or model of vehicle I buy from this point on, I'll never again buy ANYTHING with a sunroof!!
  • bubbles1956bubbles1956 Member Posts: 32
    I gave Sarah my information and she helped me both times with my GM dealer. I have to say, until it rains again and I leave my car outside the carport, I won't know if the replaces rear sunroof seal actually fixed the leak. If it didn't, I will reopen my case and get a class action law suit started. There is a lawyer here near where I live who is waiting for someone to start this. Either way, I would have to trade the SUV in if it happened again. Give GM a chance though because if you love your SUV like I love mine, it is worth it. Good luck and let us all know what is going on.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Hello Nugget53,
    I just had a new seal and glass installed as well as a new fuse box that was flooded and other electrical components that were damaged. Could you elaborate on what repairs where done that failed?? I'm curious if it was the same repair we had because also do to everything we have researched our faith of this working is slim.
    Personally, If these issues continue I found these cars extremely unsafe and would not want to pass this on to another person and would take it to a new level with GM.
    I too will never buy another car with a sunroof. Congrats on your new car!
  • nugget53nugget53 Member Posts: 10
    The one thing that you will notice from the posts in this forum is that all of the problems have been similar, some a little more serious and going on for a lot longer than others. Basically, a couple of weeks after we bought our Outlook used with 40,000 miles on it, the first problem popped up. I heard the radio playing....the car had been sitting in the driveway shut off for a couple of hours when this happened. I also noticed that the "check engine" light was dimly lit. In trying to get the radio to shut off, I started the car and it wouldn't quit running even with the key turned off and removed. My local dealer checked the car and found that (according to him) a couple of computer updates had not been completed. Those updates were loaded into the car and we never had these problems again. Then the front sunroof leak started. We had had a dry hot summer and no rain from the time that we bought the car until over a month later. With that first rain, the whole passenger side of the front flooded. I contacted the owner of my dealership, he advised me to file a case with GM (which I did) and we scheduled the car in to be looked at. They had the vehicle for nearly 3 days, checked the drain system, replaced the front sunroof seal and leak tested the roof. No leaks were noticed, the roof fit a lot more tightly and everything stayed that way for about 4 1/2 months at which time the leak returned with no warning as bad as ever and flooded the passenger front side. The apprehension about what could happen next based on the stories in this forum prompted me to cut my losses and trade cars. Based on what others have written here, it is obvious that this problem will never be permanently fixed for anyone unless GM steps up, takes responsibility and comes up with a new repair method. GM can say what they want, but these leaks are causing safety issues and all of these cars should be recalled. All in all, I was a lot luckier than many who have posted here. We only had our Outlook for about 8 months and that was the extent of all of the problems that we had. Looking back, I am sure that the previous owner was starting to have problems, traded during the driest time of the year and passed the beginning of the problems on to me based on the fact that I had the run-on issue shortly after buying the car. This seems to be one of the first problems that comes up after a leak as noted in this forum. I never had the moonroof leak, probably because my Saturn was made after this problem was discovered and solved on the production line. As I said in my other post, I have nothing against GM....I never believed that Saturn was ever a "true" GM car anyway. To me, Saturn was just a liability that GM took on that probably helped lead them to the bottom. Piece of mind means a lot, and, after the first problem that we had and from reading the posts here, I just never had it with my Outlook. Good Luck to you and all of the other Outlook owners on this forum in getting your issues resolved.
  • bbpluggerbbplugger Member Posts: 3
    Sarah, thanks for stepping in to help. I logged in and when looking at your profile, it shows that your email address is private. Am I perhaps looking in the wrong place?
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    I'm sad to hear that in the end we weren't able to fully resolve the leak, nugget53. All the best in your new vehicle (even if it is a Kia ;) )!
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    My pleasure.

    For whatever reason, although I have my account set to publicly show my email, it isn't (moderator? any ideas?).

    No matter - you can contact me at either sarah_grace@gmexpert.com or socialmedia@gm.com.

    All the best,
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • bubbles1956bubbles1956 Member Posts: 32
    The truth of the matter is this problem is for the Acadia, Enclaves and Outlooks. The same frame, the same problems with leaks. If you go to the Acadia forum you will find pages and pages of the same problem with the leaks. Some don't even have a sunroof but have leaks. There is also a GM vehicle that has leaks and no sunroof on Utube. I do believe GM should recall these vehicles. These leaks are safety issues. My SUV usually stays covered or under a carport so I have been lucky as far as not having all the electrical problems. I am very hopeful that this seal on the moonroof fixes this leak. My GM dealer said they had the lining down and poured water over the top for hours to make sure there were no leaks. If this does happen again, like I said..I too will go forward to a higher level.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 236,978
    I show it as private.... try again?

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  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    Bizarre. I selected "yes" by the display email option. Thanks for checking, though - decided to just put email addresses under my bio.

    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • nugget53nugget53 Member Posts: 10
    Sarah,

    Thanks to all of you folks at GM customer service. Everyone I dealt with was very courteous and helpful. My local dealer was also excellent in working on this issue. I'll enjoy my Kia (and my trouble-free Chevy truck!!) for now, and if GM ever has a model that I'm interested in in the future, I won't hesitate to buy. Although I am no longer an Outlook owner, I am going to continue to monitor this forum to see what the outcome of all of this is. I am sure that most of us who have posted here are just working people trying to get by the best that we can, and none of us need the aggravation, worry and (in many cases) financial burden that these leaks are causing. I never had any problems as severe as some who have posted and I was lucky enough to be in a position to dump my Outlook, chalk it up as a bad memory and go on. I hope that GM finally steps up to the plate on this issue and makes everything right for all involved. These vehicles are ALL bad so it's not an isolated incident. This is an obvious flaw in the design/manufacture of this vehicle that needs a permanent fix before someone gets hurt or killed in an accident because something else caused by one of these leaks fails.

    Nugget53
  • scargo69scargo69 Member Posts: 3
    first it was the headlights, then the sunroof which my dealer keeps saying plugged drain tubes... but after the headlights that i had to educate the dealer about I'm not really feeling like they know what theyre talking about. last week i heard a sloshing sound in my headliner. my car spends 3/4 of its time in my garage so i know its not plugged drains. i see many posts with many different outcomes. does anyone have a definitive answer for a fix?
  • bubbles1956bubbles1956 Member Posts: 32
    I would contact Sarah from GM..go back a page and send her an email and get her to give you a case number. There are so many problems with the Outlook and Acadia..it really isn't funny. So far, after they replaced the seal of the moonroof, I haven't had any more leaks. But then...it hasn't rained since either. My roof only leaked during heavy and long rains. It took them three trys to find the leak because their water test is only about 15 minutes of pouring a hose over the roof. I would go back several pages and read about all the issues and have Sarah help you with your leaks. She is pretty darn good to have in your corner.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Hi scargo69, You can look back on our post to see the problems we had (flooded fuse box and electrical components including the electrical switch for the back hatch..). Eventually, our car was in the shop for a total of 6 wks. GM is aware of this well documented problem. There was a bulletin/recall to extend your drain tubes to prevent this from happening. However, many of us had this repair and still had these devastating water intrusion problems. Eventually, our headliner was removed and we had several water test done, the first repair lasted two days and our car was back in the shop. The last repair was a new seal around the first sunroof and new glass. I suggest you contact GM @ 866-790-5600 or Sarah who is on this forum. Good luck to you!!
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    scargo69,

    I've seen your posts on a few different threads, and will try to post in a few different areas to hopefully get in touch.

    If you would like, we can look into recall or warranty information with the last 8 digits of your VIN, or can assist in working with a dealership to get any existing concerns diagnosed and resolved. Please send us an email at socialmedia@gm.com with more information (your name/Edmunds username, phone and address, the last 8 digits of your VIN and current mileage, and the name of your involved dealership).

    Best,
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Update: We've had our car for no more than 2 wks after repairs stated and the repair shop having our car for a total of 3 weeks and problems continue... I'm so upset I can't see straight. I first noticed a pattern of condensation on the inside of the passenger window (on the top of the window), there was also condensation on the inside of the windshield on that side with a pattern down the window, the radio/navigation somewhat scrambled, the outside temp indicator when I started my car registered at 89 degrees and it was in the 40's and the interior lights aren't working... It's horrifying that others are having the same issues and that GM has no other repair than a recall to extend the drain tubes for this VERY KNOWN documented problem. I don't feel safe driving our beautiful car and it's back to the shop. We don't know what direction to go in as of yet, we've had this car since June 11' and have never had this many problems with a car. We have a loan on it and it's a lose, lose situation. We have an appt. with a lawyer on Friday to advise us of the next course of action.
  • bubbles1956bubbles1956 Member Posts: 32
    It rained hard the other night and I only had the back end of my vehicle out of the car port and the inside cargo was damp. I couldn't find where it came from but I know I didn't have anything in the back. I am going to have schedule a visit to the lawyer again, I didn't follow through because I was sure they fixed the leak. I am also going to look into getting a different vehicle and take the loss on this one. Let the lawyers figure out how to act on this. I am now more nervous than ever to drive to Louisiana to visit my parents in a couple months for this car might fail me. After reading your entry again, I am not feeling to good about my beautiful car either. LET US KNOW what happens. I am going to try to water test my car myself and see if I can find why it was damp in the back.
  • joyztoyjoyztoy Member Posts: 9
    I am hoping Sarah from GM can help me too. My Outlook has been at the dealsership (Polar Chev in MN) for over a week so far the year (last year 2 days) and counting. We have spent over $400 trying to find the leak. I was told my VIN was outside the recall and have a case opened with GM customer service from last fall. I am at the end of my rope with this leak! Water pours onto my children's car seats! The dealership is extremely helpful, but I don't want to think about my running tab for repairs. My truck is there NOW looking for the leak. Please HELP!
  • bbpluggerbbplugger Member Posts: 3
    I found this forum a couple of weeks ago with the sunroof leak/electrical problem. Sarah at GM found me and asked me to contact her. My car was at the dealer and I didn't get an immediate reply, so I called the general GM number and asked for the service team. They referred my case to the "district rep" and I got word in less than 24 hours that GM would pick up the tab, and they followed through. i'm very happy that they paid for the repair and were proactive about helping me.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    To Sarah @ GM:
    I asked you a few questions several post back with no response so I will ask again. I have done endless research as many others on this forum have regarding the water leaks and the devastating damage's that have occurred and the problems occurring over and over again even after extending the drain tubes.

    I've noticed you're on the other forums as well such as Arcadia and Enclave site regarding the same leak issue. This problem has been going on for years affecting so many owners of these cars.

    Questions:
    Where does the information that you read on this site go? Does the CEO of GM know of this issue? I would think by NOW GM would have come up with a repair solution especially knowing that the water intrusion floods electrical components making this a HUGE safety issue.

    With all the post I have read by you throughout my research, you have gathered and read many, many complaints. Just curious what GM is doing about this and please don't tell me it's case by case, this is a massive problem people are having and they are all the same problem.

    My car is going back to the shop for the third time in a little over a month. GM has been of great assistance to me, however, at this point I'm running out of faith that this will ever be resolved. I have/and pay on a loan on this car as many other owners do that is a lemon! I don't qualify for the Lemon Law. I could not in good faith sell this car to another knowing about these leak issues nor do I have enough equity, I bought the car in 6/11.

    Please Sarah, let me know what happens with the info. collected or at least where does it go. GM obviously has you overseeing these forums for many reasons.

    Thanks for your time.
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    Good morning joyztoy,

    I'm sorry that you're at the end of your rope! If you haven't already, please send an email to socialmedia@gm.com with your name/Edmunds username, address and phone, last 8 of your VIN and current mileage, and the name of your dealership, as well as perhaps some details of your recent visit(s).

    All the best,
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    I'm sorry I missed your original post, nancy1960. Thank you for re-posting!

    For my part, we have a document separate from the database where we log instances of frequently surfacing concerns (to which I have added the Outlook sunroof concern that has been surfacing so frequently in this thread). This is sent by my supervisor off to be reviewed by somebody within GM (although I am unsure of the specifics).

    As for the database -- this is where Service Requests play a very special role for us as we have codes that tie the issue at hand (leaky sunroof) to the VIN. Again, this is outside of my department and I am unsure of the specifics but brand quality may do searches by VIN increments (can look up data for model and year this way) to see what has surfaced. The same is done with data from dealerships when those who choose to do so take their vehicles in for service.

    I hope that this helps to answer some of your questions. I'm sorry if it isn't complete in detail, but it's what I know! :)

    Happy Wednesday,
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • bubbles1956bubbles1956 Member Posts: 32
    Have you talked to a lawyer yet? I have to wait now to see a lawyer that specializes in class action law suits for a couple weeks now. I even sent an email with all these forums to my local news but nothing so far. I will go to the big news now and see if they can find out for us what is going on. My car dried up and it hasn't rained again so I can't tell if I somehow had a leak in my groceries in the back to make it damp or if it leaked again. I have it out of the car port now so when it does rain, I will check. Doing a stupid 30 minute water test does not do a thing to check for leaks.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    We meet with our lawyer on Friday. He's not a Lemon Law attorney but it's a start.
    After looking over the service bulletins I got to thinking that GM put a bulletin out in 9/09 and then another in 2/10 making the public aware of potential issues and problems that can occur if not done (such as all the problems on this forum that we're all too familiar with.) These repairs have obviously failed and GM is negligent for this. There is an obvious flaw in the design/manufacture of this vehicle that needs a permanent fix before someone gets hurt or killed in an accident because something else caused by one of these leaks fails. I'm thankful my car was dead in my driveway with a flooded fuse box and I wasn't driving when it decided to die.
    I couldn't agree more with Nugget53 comment, “It is obvious that this problem will never be permanently fixed for anyone unless GM steps up, takes responsibility and comes up with a new repair method. GM can say what they want, but these leaks are causing safety issues and all of these cars should be recalled.”
    GM, we have a BIG PROBLEM! These forums have been monitored for years by GM, I appreciate the customer service offered as it has helped many, but, from all I've read not once have I read a satisfied repair and customer. Why?
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    I appreciate your response Sarah! As you stated it isn't complete in detail and this is only what you know.
    The information regarding this problem and solution appears to be buffered by layers of bureaucracy that prevents customers to get to the truth of these serious problems. There is no access to information to solutions. This appears to be a manufacturer defect that GM refuses to expose to it's customers. The work performed suggested by service bulletins have failed. From all of our research, people had the worked performed and the very problems the bulletins were trying to prevent happened, over and over again. I have spent too much of my precious time researching this and not once have I come across one person that was satisfied and had NO more problems with leaks. They, like us thought the problem was resolved the first go around and we could put this behind us, and then, the problems continue days, weeks, months later.
    We are hard working people that have too been affected by this hard economy and a car is a vital need. We expect repairs and maintenance expenses and purchased an extended warranty when we purchased our car. Many people have spent thousands of dollars to TRY and fix repairs out of pocket and have gotten no where and now have a LEMON.
    Our leaks started after a rain and snow storm. At first we thought our water damage was from the storm and contacted our insurance. The call we received from State Farm was informational to say the least. State Farm stated we could not submit the claim because the water leaks with these vehicles is a WELL documented issue with GM.
    Please pass this on to your supervisor so it can be sent off to GM.
    Also, I'm at my wits end and please know my issue is with GM and not with you Sarah. I appreciate your response.
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    nancy1960,

    I really do wish I could do more for you and others who have posted. I wish you all the best,
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • vg21avg21a Member Posts: 1
    Sarah

    I am just adding to the voice of many. I have sent you an email to the socialmedia address. An outtake of the letter I sent you:

    First off let me say that the dealership has been helpful even when the vehicle has been left there for an extended time period. They have fixed several issues one fluid leak that I had not detected yet. There are still several outstanding issues that are of concern.

    1. Well like most everyone else with the Acadia / Outlook body style it leaks like a sieve even after the "drainage hose extension" repair was done. Not only having had damp carpet I've had standing water on both the left and right front seat floorboards. As I am sure you are aware there are numerous reports, even video of the water leakage problem. Aside the the nuisance of having water poor from the headliner onto myself or my passengers it appears that water also flows around the steering column and into the Body Control Module (BCM) and free of charge it turns on the head lights then leaving you "dead in the water" until a jump can be acquired. Location of the BCM is described in the shop manual Electrical Component Locations Fig 12. Not horrible in town but a real pain when out in the woods.

    Currently this is not considered a "warranty" item. My feeling is that the vehicle has leaked since I got it, it is a very well known problem to the extent that people are going to there state AG's looking for relief. It would seem GM with all the bad press of late would want to take care of a rather basic issue, it's not a convertible. I also have a concern that the drainage tubes should be handling any minimal water leakage from the sunroof seal, even if the seal is replaced why are the drainage tubes not working?

    2. The second ongoing problem relates to the transmission and an apparent stuck solenoid C valve.

    From my engine diagnostic program:

    Trouble Codes
    DTC Description ECU
    P0797 Pressure Control Solenoid "C" Stuck On $7EA
    P0700 Transmission Control Module (TCM) Requested MIL Illumination $7E8
    Pending Codes
    DTC Description ECU
    P0700 Transmission Control Module (TCM) Requested MIL Illumination $7E8
    P0797 Pressure Control Solenoid "C" Stuck On $7EA
    Name: #######
    Vehicle: 2008 Saturn Outlook 3.6L V6 LY7
    Generated by ScanXL™ Professional v3.0.3 (Build
    1452).
    http://www.palmerperformance.com
    -1-

    This is an ongoing intermittent problem that will cause the vehicle to shudder, not go into reverse or the worst case so far on a snowy road put me into a snow bank causing some damage. The dealer has not been able to cause this to happen. However, I have had numerous people riding in the vehicle when it has "shuddered" and pulled to the right on a left turn. I am a ski patroller and drive a lot on snowy roads, this is rather disconcerting since sometimes there is very little but air off the side of the mountain road.

    3. The dealer I believe has replaced both low beam headlights per the recall in December. It was nice that this problem has finally been taken care of. I hope the other two issues can be resolved. I am certainly not a current mechanic. However, I have rebuilt several cars, motorcycle and a couple of aircraft. I also do have a number of tools including diagnostics for the current vehicles.
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    Good afternoon vg21a,

    Thank you for sending us such a detailed email! My coworker Christina, who responds to inbound emails from the Edmunds forum, will assist you further. If you don't hear back (sometimes there may be technical difficulties), please don't hesitate to get in touch.

    Regards,
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • skomminiskommini Member Posts: 1
    edited March 2012
    Hi all,

    I am posting here so there is a record of another lemon Outlook. We have a 2007 Saturn Outlook (original owners). This week we have had our 3rd leak problem. The previous two times the local GM dealer supposedly fixed it and there was no leak for a while. This 3rd time, the dealer made a lot of fuss about fixing for free and said we had to at least split the costs. Reluctantly we agreed and got it "fixed". 24 hours later it is leaking yet again.

    This car clearly is a lemon. We have a faulty temperature gauge that has never been fixed despite what the Service facility claimed. We also have a squeaky steering wheel.

    I would rather sell this car while it has some value left but honestly I can't do that in good conscience to someone. Besides I also was hoping to keep this as a family hauler for years to come.

    Clearly this is not a one off problem based on what I am reading here.

    If there is a class action lawsuit, I will happily join in as this is clearly an issue that many are experiencing.

    Thanks,

    Satya
    -----

    PS:
    Sarah - I really appreciate your quick response to my email yesterday. My spouse has followed up with you now. Getting it fixed every few months even if GM pays for it is not the answer. All of us having this issue need a permanent fix.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Hi Satya~
    Your not alone! Our car was in the shop for 3 weeks, the 2nd time for 7 days and we're back to the shop on next Tuesday. The last repair was a new seal and sunroof glass. Our car has suffered major damage due to the water leaks.
    Did you get a recall to have your drain tubes extended? Just curious.

    If these recalls and service bulletin were completed in it’s entirely and correctly, it would have stopped the leaks. I’ve heard so many times that the drain tubes cannot handle large amounts of water despite extending the drain tubes – It certainly hasn’t work for us! Recalls were performed and despite the work the problems to prevent the water intrusion and the damage it could do to the electrical components along with water in the vehicle, etc., which can cause mold happened to consumers over and over again. The water intrusion due to the faulty drain tubes that were fixed due to the recall causes deprecation in the vehicle, expensive service repairs and more importantly is a safety issue being that the water from the inadequate drain tubes floods the fuse box along with corroding and shortening out electrical components. The suggested repairs from GM to fix these vehicles that was supposed to prevent theses problems occurred and continue to happen causing major damages to many of our cars. GM put the recall out and made the public aware of the potential issues – I would think GM is responsible due to their inadequate repairs noted in the service bulletin to the dealerships to be performed to fix the problem. The repairs have failed; anyone can see that from all the posts on this forum and other forums.
    I think we need to put a Facebook page up so we can gather ALL the unhappy consumers affected by GM in reference to the Saturn Outlook water leaks. That way when “Saturn Outlook water leaks” are Google like we’ve all done, a Facebook page will pop up. What will this do? It will get a good accountability and will be a place for people to come to and then, be a place to push forward for a Class Action. From all the research I’ve done and all the stories I’ve read, it’s all the same problem, just different cars. GM has not come up with a permanent fixed. I have yet to read ONE satisfied customer 2 yrs out from a repair or a permanent fix.

    What do you all think about a Facebook Page? This needs to go VIRAL!!

    Good luck to you Satya.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    I just went to Facebook and there is already a page!!! Mostly all post are about WATER LEAKS!!
    Type in Saturn-GM Outlook Lemons. http://www.facebook.com/groups/180757711936865/
  • nugget53nugget53 Member Posts: 10
    Satya,

    As you can see from previous posts that I made, I only had the sunroof leak and agravation that it causes for a very short time compared to many others who have posted. You will also see that I am no longer an Outlook owner, but will continue to monitor this forum to see how all of this turns out. My wife and I loved our Outlook but after the leaks started and a couple of other problems popped up, I found this forum and saw what was in store for us. Also, after talking to someone outside of GM, who I consider to be an "expert" on anything to do with auto glass, who had unsuccessfully tried to repair one of these cars, it became obvious to me that neither GM nor anyone else can PERMANENTLY repair this problem using any current methods that are available. Then, I took into account all of the other problems that the leaks are continually causing and the other posts in the Outlook forum about transmission problems which also appear to be inevitable. Since I didn't like what I read here, and considering what I had been told, I cut my losses and traded. My wife frequently travels out of town alone and/or has young grandchildren in tow a lot of the time. The thought of her being stranded somewhere alone or with young children made me pretty uneasy and I got out while I could. I noticed that you said that you wouldn't feel right about selling your car and all of its problems to someone else. I understand what you are feeling and I do feel terrible that someone may purchase the Outlook that I traded and inherit the problems that I ran from; however, I really hope that a potential buyer will research the car and, hopefully, call me as the previous owner to ask about it. I'll just refer them to this forum and hope that they make the right decision. I know that if I had done the research that I normally do before making a major purchase such as a car, I would never have bought a Saturn Outlook. I am hoping that everything turns out well for all of you who are still experiencing these annoying problems. No one should ever have to continually put up with ANY of this!!

    NUGGET53
  • propanepropane Member Posts: 2
    For two years we have battled leaks but did not know the source. I rarely go online outside of business because I use the net lots for work research. We had a rash of cracked windshields replaced (4) and we blamed the water leaks on faulty installation techs. But last month I noticed for myself water coming through the assist bar on the right side A pillar and so i brought the Outlook down to the dealer. My wife also had heard water swishing noises above her head as she drove. The dealer quoted $900-1,000 to remove all of the headliner to fix the drainage tubes. He never even mentioned the fact that much water should never be leaking in from any sunroof on any car. I asked him if there was a recall or problem with other Outlooks and he said he checked and there was none. But it wasn't until my wife went on line that I discovered the extent of this problem created by an American company who is unwilling to back up the product they manufacture and sell to the people. With the sunroof closed you can plainly see the problem by pushing your thumb up into the middle of the window and seeing how very little pressure it takes to move the window off its seal. This is a pressure issue with the closing and locking mechanism of the sunroof itself. GM probably realized the huge extent of the problem and swept it under the carpet. I am ready to join any class action as my wife's Outlook is starting to experience electrical gremlins by locking itself several times. The carpet had been real wet and I have air dried by fans for days to prevent mold. The dealer left the car out in the rain after I asked them not too as the water inside was torrential. That really pissed me off and I knew that I was not going to get any help from GM. we have parked teh car on any day where rain is obvious. Lets take government motors to court!!! This is really now a safety issue if you are still using your Outlook/Acadia etc... when it is raining.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Hi Propane, You need to call GM immediately @ 1-866-790-5600 before paying for any repair. There was two bulletin's #10-08-67-001A & N080207.
    Please take the time to consider filing a complaint with the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) - the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) is authorized to order manufacturers to recall and repair vehicles or items of motor vehicle equipment when ODI investigations indicate that these vehicles contain serious safety defects in their design, construction, or performance. I believe GM has forsaken a very large percentage of its consumer base by not adequately addressing this extremely serious problem from the beginning. It has and continues to affect all models and is a very serious health and safety issue. ODI also monitors the adequacy of manufacturers' recall campaigns and again, GM's recall campaign on this issue is absolutely reprehensible - the dealers aren't able to fix this problem even after several attempts. We have filed a complaint with our Attorney General's office as well as the Better Business Bureau, NHTSA & a letter directly GM CEO, Daniel Akerson.
    The water intrusion can cause disastrous, electrical damage as it has our car. Our car remains unsafe to drive.
    I won't repeat what I've said in my other posts, I will say people need to take the time and make our complaints loud and clear.
    Good luck and let us know how it goes.
  • gmcustsvcsarahgmcustsvcsarah Member Posts: 1,964
    propane,

    Have you opened a case with Customer Assistance yet? We can also set one up for you if you wanted to send us an email to socialmedia@gm.com with your name/Edmunds username, phone and address, the last 8 of your VIN and current mileage, brief recap of the issue at hand (I don't answer inbound emails and this will assist Christina, who does), and the name of your dealership.

    All the best,
    Sarah
    GM Customer Service
  • joyztoyjoyztoy Member Posts: 9
    My Outlook was at the dealership again for a week for additional silicon. Just another attempt to find the source of the leak. Had a big storm last night and AGAIN found water coming out of our back up sensor, on the front passenger floor and the front driver's side floor. Just got it back Friday, just to return it tomorrow. Anyone know what the Lemon Law in MN details? I sent the email to social media email, but don't know what the resolution is to the problem. Has anyone found a repair that works?
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Joyztoy, Every State is different. Our car is back at the shop as well - 3rd repair. We have searched and searched and have not found a satisfied customer with a long standing repair satisfaction.

    FYI - :mad: Here it is in a nutshell! Info, from Wisconsin Lemon Law regarding the 2007-2008 Saturn Outlook. Although I don't live in Wisconsin nor does our car qualify for the lemon law I find this info. right to the point; "In sum, since its initial production, the Saturn Outlook is a vehicle that has caused undue hardship on many of its owners." Many fortunate owners were able to use the Lemon Law in their States during the designated time.

    Over the years GM has notoriously recreated a particular model of vehicle to serve its many of its different brands. In the case of the GMC Acadia, GM copied this model and repackaged it as the Saturn Outlook. It is essentially the same vehicle with a Saturn logo and altered features. The difference between the two models is with the quality of the manufacturing. The Saturn Outlook has been an utter disaster when it comes to reliability. The Saturn Outlook since its inception has caused its owners to experience everything from engine, transmission, water leaks, brakes, and/or electrical system defects. New vehicles are not supposed to have problems other than normal maintenance. But the Saturn Outlook has provided many headaches for its owners.
    Under the Wisconsin Lemon Law, having to present a vehicle 4 times for repairs in the first year of ownership is enough to qualify a consumer for a repurchase of the vehicle. Many Outlook owners have had to present their vehicle 5, 6, 7, or 8 times to try to fix ongoing problems. One of the most common problems with the Outlook is its inability to keep water out of the vehicle. In essence, this is a big, leaky, unreliable SUV. The other aspect of the problem with the Saturn Outlook is the perception of quality that Saturn has portrayed. When Saturn vehicles began production in 1990, the vehicles were advertised to be different than other GM vehicles in quality and in reliability. This was true at the time. But then from 2000-2008, GM seemed to gradually devalue the unique nature of Saturn vehicles and therefore Saturn fell to the bottom of the food chain with regards to quality. The ‘07-‘08 Saturn Outlooks were the results of this. Instead of being sturdy, family vehicles, Saturn Outlooks have turned out to be liabilities for families that owned them.
    In sum, since its initial production, the Saturn Outlook is a vehicle that has caused undue hardship on many of its owners. The problems that it exhibits may entitle consumers to protection under the Wisconsin Lemon Law. This protection potentially could include repurchase, replacement, or cash damages. The Outlook is a case study in the importance of quality engineering, quality oversight, and quality manufacturing. The Outlook unfortunately has failed in regards to all of the above.
  • bubbles1956bubbles1956 Member Posts: 32
    I filed a complaint with the Safety board and I sent all these links to the local news. I think everyone should go to their local news and get this noticed. I will be filing with the Attorney General as well. I am sick just thinking of what could happen while driving in the rain. I sure hope it doesn't take someone to die before this gets resolved.
  • joyztoyjoyztoy Member Posts: 9
    Our car is in the stop again after a rainstorm on Saturday. My son continues to ask when the hole in the truck will be fixed so he doesn't get wet anymore. How do you explain it to a 4 year old? I have been assigned a GM District Specialist, which I call everyday. What if the fix doesn't work after the 4th time in less than a month (and 6th time since last fall)?

    I contacted the MN attorney general to ask specifics about the Lemon Law since I have 60,000 and am waiting for a response. I purchased this vehicle new, and love how it WORKED for our family. I am thinking I will either have to get a bigger or smaller vehicle outside of the GM product line. Too bad because I loved my Outlook.
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Joyztoy, Our car is on day 11 on the 4th trip back to the shop a total of 38 days since 2/12. Sorry to hear you are still experiencing this nightmare too! What work are they doing to try and repair it? Are they replacing the seal around the sunroof and glass? Just curious. Good to hear you contacted the Attorney General! If you can file a complaint that's even better. What I've learned is that all these complaints on Edmunds that GM reps monitor help the consumer get help from GM but it delays people from making complaints to where this information really needs to go. I've asked a GM rep on this site (stated in this forum) where does the info. go that they retrieve from this forum and as all I was told it goes into a data base and from there she didn't have an answer. The complaints need to go to the AG, NHTSA, and the BBB. The data that these agencies get from our complaints will put a fire under GM.
    From one of my post:
    "Please take the time to consider filing a complaint with the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) - the NHTSA Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) is authorized to order manufacturers to recall and repair vehicles or items of motor vehicle equipment when ODI investigations indicate that these vehicles contain serious safety defects in their design, construction, or performance. I believe GM has forsaken a very large percentage of its consumer base by not adequately addressing this extremely serious problem from the beginning. It has and continues to affect all models and is a very serious health and safety issue. ODI also monitors the adequacy of manufacturers' recall campaigns and again, GM's recall campaign on this issue is absolutely reprehensible - the dealers aren't able to fix this problem even after several attempts. We have filed a complaint with our Attorney General's office as well as the Better Business Bureau, NHTSA & a letter directly GM CEO, Daniel Akerson."
    I love my car too and this is unbelievable what is happening. Keep in touch and let us know how it goes!
  • worried16worried16 Member Posts: 7
    I am in a bit of shock right now - we have a 2008 Saturn Outlook that has been in the shop 3 different times due to water leak problems - they thought it stemmed from the sunroofs leaking and did several fixes such as extending the drains...after the fix, we go through periods of the car smelling like wet dog and then it would go away - finally the smell has just gotten out of hand and so took a moisture meter to the inside the car and I about panicked - the ENTIRE car is registering moisture from all 4 door panels to the floor to the sides..you name it. We have been having electrical issues with all 4 windows and the back hatch and now that it explains why. Of course we are at 67,842 miles and can not take advantage of any lemon law even though we first complained of the water issue back at 25,000 miles. We got a letter in the mail a month or so ago from a lawyer in Florida that stated something about a class action lawsuit and I put the letter to the side to file it and now I can not find it. I have NO clue how to proceed....do I call GM first? There is NO way we are paying for any repairs and it completely explains why both my son and I have been having massive headache and sinus problems, I can't believe that with all that moisture in the car in the temperatures in Florida that we don't have mold growing - both my son and I are allergic to mold. Would love some help on where to start. Thank you so much
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    You should call GM immediately 1-866-790-5600 before paying for any repair. There was two bulletin's #10-08-67-001A & N080207. You can find a great deal of information if you go through this forum pages. It helps to get informed before you get on the phone with GM. Make a complaint with your Attorney General, BBB and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration; this is VERY important!
    There was two bulletin's #10-08-67-001A & N080207.

    Here is some info:
    TECHNICAL

    Bulletin No.: 10-08-67-001A
    Date: February 26, 2010
    Subject: Headliner Wet/Water Leak into Cab from Front Sunroof Glass (Replace Sunroof Window Weather strip/Seal)
    Models:
    2008-2009 Buick Enclave
    2007-2009 GMC Acadia
    2007-2009 Saturn OUTLOOK

    Supercede:
    This bulletin is being revised to update the Cause and Correction information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 10-08-67-001 (Section 08 - Body and Accessories).
    Condition
    Some customers may comment on a water leak coming from the front sunroof glass, which may result in the headliner being wet and/or water leaking into the cab.
    Cause
    The sunroof glass panel weather strip/seal may have failed to retain its designed shape, resulting in a water leak that overwhelms the sunroof module water trough.

    Correction
    Note
    The sunroof glass seal is not designed to be completely water tight. Minor drips witnessed dropping into the water management system can be expected. Heavy streams of water passing by the weather strip should not be evident.
    This problem is outrageous and GM needs to step up to the plate! My car is back in the shop for the 3rd time since Feb. - day 17.....
    Good luck to you.
  • worried16worried16 Member Posts: 7
    edited April 2012
    Thanks for the info - I have been trying to read all the info and it is quite overwhelming. How in the WORLD can they ignore So many complaints??? I am just furious because we have mold allergies and knowing that it has literally got moisture in 75% of the interior is mind-boggling to me. I completed a complaint to the National Highway Transportation Safety Admin and BBB and will work on a letter to the Attorney General. Our family just can't handle a huge money crisis and there is no way we can attempt a trade in or sell it and be able to pay off the loan. I will be contacting GM first thing tomorrow because I refuse to pay a dime for any repairs or a rental car especially since we have notified them of this issue over and over again. No clue how they are going to fix it all since the moisture is everywhere!
  • worried16worried16 Member Posts: 7
    I have to agree to this - my drains have been extended AND my sunroof was replaced and resealed and my car is STILL leaking massively - so that will not fix the problem :-(
  • nancy1960nancy1960 Member Posts: 54
    Our recent repair also included the sunroof being replaced along with the new seal around it. Your not the first that I have read where this too did not fix the leaks. This is where you have a leg to stand on with GM worried 16... No matter how many miles or what year the car is GM put this info out to the public, alerted owners of these cars to bring them in for repair to PREVENT issues such as electrical components getting flooded from water intrusion with also a list of problems that could occur if not fixed according to these bulletins. It sounds like you like all of us have had these repairs done and the problems continue....
    These vehicles are ALL bad so it's not an isolated incident. This is an obvious flaw in the design/manufacture of this vehicle that needs a permanent fix before someone gets hurt or killed in an accident because something else caused by one of these leaks fails.
    The mold you have in your car is an added serious issue due to the failure of GM not able to fix these leaks.
    You can go to the GM site and write to the CEO as we have and state your complaint too! Times are very tough for people and we are like you, we have a loan on a car that is a lemon and is now not a safe car due to the water leaks that GM is fully aware of. Exhaust every avenue to let your complaint be heard. It's exhausting and takes up precious time, however, this is so wrong and if people don't take their complaints further than this forum it will continue as usual... I think when people have these problems, GM kicks in for a few repairs (which we are all extremely grateful for) they think it's fixed and it occurs again and again. I've learned through this process to stick to the fact of the bulletins and put it back on GM when you talk to them. Stay strong and keep in touch!
  • joyztoyjoyztoy Member Posts: 9
    I got my truck back on 4/18 and the dealership stated that a drain tube was not on tightly, they replaced the seal around the stationary sunroof and siliconed around the antennae. They had a tech sit in my car and watch where the water was coming in with the headliner removed during a rainstorm.

    I am hopeful it is now repaired. From talking to my dealership, it sounds like they paid for the work because I already dumped $400 into it. I walked out owing nothing, thank goodness!

    Now I am hoping for a rain storm just to verify that it has stopped leaking! I asked GM to keep my case open until I can make sure that the problem has been solved. My fingers are crossed

    I did months ago file a complaint with the feds, any clue on how many complaints launch an investigation?
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