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Comments
Good question - and is that different for diesel shoppers? Or are they really just looking for torque or durability, or something else?
Needless to say MB is considered a "niche" market, albeit high end, but more" affordable" 50- 75 k for the ML350 blue tec line up. MB wantes to produce 36,000 MB ML350's for 2012.
Of course the Accord is geared shorter in the first place - would gladly trade the occasional downshift for a 6th gear (or taller 5th).
Wish they brought Accord diesels to the USA - best of both worlds. Maybe the Mazda 6 in a year or so, and though I have no interest in an SUV, the CX-5 has my attention in FWD stick shift form. With a diesel it would get incredible mileage (already at 35 highway with gas) and would have plenty of room.
I wish the E wagon was sold as a Bluetec here, it would be a heck of a rig. Make it an E250 and you'd be hitting 40mpg I bet, in a luxurious classy ride.
I also read in passing that Nissan WILL provides high end 4 cylinder diesel engines for a segment of MB and higher end Nissans Blue Tec. MIT So certainly there is a LOT of pre-positioning BUZZ. They are planning for a 250,000 (diesel) unit capacity. The plant already oems engines- current capacity UNK. Interesting the information one comes across when not really looking. Funny the stuff you ARE looking for,... hiding.
I personally am not a wagon fan, but dreams of the one you would like CAN happen. My only want for an SUV is first and foremost a response to a state government requirement for mountain winter travel @ chain control points. They will let so called SUV's go without chaining up for all but the most severe conditions . IF and WHEN it is THAT severe, you really do not want to go for it. They will not let CARS, even with AWD and winter snows go in those same conditions without CHAINS. The fact that it can get 86% better fuel mileage than SUV's of old, icing and impressive from a look back point of view.
Otherwise I'd be happy as a clam with an MB E350 4 door sedan diesel, or some other M/M that meets the needs, wants, etc. I get 40-47 mpg and 48-52 mpg now. So 28-36 mpg from one point of view can be a let down. So as forward looking targets, I would be looking for any replacements to do significantly better. I also realize that is highly unlikely for @ least the next 20 years.
Maybe I will wait until an S350 diesel (all 4matic here) depreciates to my level, takes 4 or 5 years with the gassers. I have heard about that Nissan deal for small engines, with MB providing help for a performance line at Infiniti.
I do have to say that so far the 8 speed A/T on the VW T TDI has been a very very pleasant surprise. It looks (so far) to be durable, reliable and hopefully bullet proof.
You need to take a nice easy trip in your new chariot and see what you can get out of it on a long highway drive.
Note that several models on that list offer diesel variants.
Seems like just about all Jetta Sportwagens are TDIs.
Looking at VW sales for April. They are up 38% over April 2011. Touareg is up 46% so far this year. Not sure how many are diesels.
Mercedes is also up big time with diesel sales up 85% over last year by this time.
Audi sales up 15%:
Sales mix for Audi TDI clean diesel models finish the month at 57.3% for the A3 TDI and 31.0% for Q7
BMW does not say much about their diesel sales. I have to think the selling days on the Q7 and Sportswagen are due to diesel sales for those models.
SWB 7er, averaged around 33mpg, including a lot of 100+ mph running and one run over 130. I bet the new diesel S-class will be able to do similar. You'll be able to pass 30 if you take it easy, no doubt.
It does show the range of application of the hybrid, but truthfully that has been around for a long time. On the other extreme, GE uses diesel hybrids in their engine locomotive products. But then again they are designed to drag 20 M #'s and up over VAST distances.
Heck, BMW's straight 6 twin turbo had a little lag itself, at least in the 5 series.
Once it got going you almost got *too* much, so far less linear than the old straight 6s.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Does the 535i get twin turbos, or the newer twin scroll single turbo? I'm not even sure.
This was the brand new one, exactly a year ago.
I was invited back to the same event this year. RSHolland and I are going - 328i vs. C240 turbos comparison. Should be interesting.
They also have the A4 and IS250 along to compare, but I've sampled those, so I chose the new engines to sample.
Gosh, remember the late 80s Saab turbos? All or nothing, wait for it, wait for it, DANG that's fast!
Could be you drove the twin-scroll bimmer. I believe they switched to that for the 2010 model year. That also had the 8-speed auto, which I'm not familiar with.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Audi is launching its updated Q5 with five engine options: three TDI and two TFSI engines. All of these engines combine direct fuel injection with charging, and a start-stop system is standard in all versions. Although most of the engines have enhanced performance, their fuel consumption values were reduced by up to 15 percent.
The most efficient Audi Q5 series engine is the 2.0 TDI; Audi offers it in two versions. In the version with 105 kW (143 hp) and 320 Nm (236.02 lb-ft) of torque, the four-cylinder engine in combination with manual transmission and front-wheel drive has an average fuel consumption of 5.3 liters of diesel per 100 km (44.38 US mpg) - and a CO2 equivalent of 139 grams per km (223.70 g/mile). The 75 liter (19.81 US gallon) fuel tank enables driving ranges of up to 1,400 km (870 miles).
The Audi Q5 with 130 kW (177 hp) and 380 Nm (280.27 lb-ft) of torque (with S tronic and quattro drive) has a fuel consumption value of 6.0 liters per 100 km (39.20 US mpg). The 3.0 TDI delivers 180 kW (245 hp) and 580 Nm (427.79 lb-ft) of torque. The V6 diesel - which appears in a new, advanced design and is always paired with a seven-speed S tronic and quattro drive system - accelerates the Audi Q5 from zero to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in 6.5 seconds and has a top speed of 225 km/h (139.81 mph). Its combined fuel consumption is just 6.4 liters of fuel per 100 km (36.75 US mpg).
The gasoline engines of the updated Audi Q5 also feature state-of-the-art technology. A highlight of the TFSI engine line-up is the new two-liter, four-cylinder engine that has numerous innovations such as in the control of valves and their stroke, innovative thermal management, the fuel injection system, turbocharger and integration of the exhaust manifold in the cylinder head.
The new 2.0 TFSI outputs 165 kW (225 hp) and 350 Nm (258.15 lb-ft). Its fuel consumption (with a manual transmission) is 7.6 liters per 100 km (30.95 US mpg). Producing even more power is the new 3.0 TFSI - the three-liter V6 with supercharging, which replaces the 3.2-liter engine. This engine outputs 200 kW (272 hp) of power and 400 Nm (295.02 lb-ft) of torque. Key performance data: zero to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in 5.9 seconds, top speed 234 km/h (145.40 mph), combined fuel consumption of 8.5 liters per 100 km (27.67 US mpg).
Interesting take, among other things about Euro and American auto manufacturing (in China) to appeal TO China' s demographics. How this will affect diesel power plants in both Europe and US markets is not really known. Some teasers from the article: projected 2012 passenger car sales in China @18 M, vs the US @14.5 M. Cars are being used as the 21st century equivalent of the "opiate of the peoples". Ferrari an icon of opulence, luxury, demonstrative show, etc. Audi is a VERY popular European brand. Audi's are also used as "STATE" cars, aka like the Chevrolet Suburban/Tahoe is used for US Presidential protection. Automotive design studios are papering Shanghai: BMW, GM, VW, Toyota, Honda, PSA Peugeot, Citro'en. Global HQ of : Good Eargh, Infinity/Nissan is in Hong Kong.
The four-cylinder diesel engines available to the new BMW X1 offer a choice of five output levels and two variants of the BMW TwinPower Turbo technology package. An all-aluminium crankcase, a turbocharger with variable intake geometry, and common-rail direct injection using solenoid injectors are features shared by the 2.0-litre power units for the BMW X1 sDrive16d, BMW X1 sDrive18d, BMW X1 xDrive18d, BMW X1 sDrive20d, BMW X1 xDrive20d and BMW X1 sDrive20d EfficientDynamics Edition models. The new entry-level diesel model, the BMW X1 sDrive16d,has output of 85 kW/116 hp and maximum torque of 260 Newton metres. It reaches the 100 km/h (62 mph) mark from standstill in 11.5 seconds and average fuel consumption in the EU test cycle is 4.9 litres per 100 kilometres (57.6 mpg imp) with CO2 emissions of 128 grams per kilometre. For two further models, the four-cylinder diesel provides output of 105 kW/143 hp and peak torque of 320 Newton metres. They manage the zero to 100 km/h (62 mph) dash in 9.6 (BMW X1 sDrive18d) and 9.9 seconds (BMW X1 xDrive18d) with average fuel consumption in the EU test cycle of 4.9 and 5.5 litres respectively (57.6 / 51.4 mpg imp) and CO2 figures of 128 and 144 grams per kilometre.
Thanks to their output of 135 kW/184 hp and torque rising to 380 Newton metres, the BMW X1 sDrive20d and BMW X1 xDrive20d achieve the standard sprint in 7.8 and 8.1 seconds respectively. The resulting driving pleasure is coupled with fuel and CO2 figures in the EU test cycle of 4.9 litres (57.6 mpg imp) and 129 grams for the BMW X1 sDrive20d and 5.5 litres per 100 kilometres (51.4 mpg imp) and 145 grams per kilometre for the BMW X1 xDrive20d. Even more impressive is the relationship between sportiness and frugality in the case of the BMW X1 sDrive20d EfficientDynamics Edition. The world's most fuel-efficient premium vehicle of its kind summons up 120 kW/163 hp and maximum torque of likewise 380 Newton metres. The sprint from standstill is accomplished in 8.3 seconds and average fuel consumption in the EU test cycle amounts to 4.5 litres per 100 kilometres (62.8 mpg imp) with CO2 emissions of 119 grams per kilometre.
The new top-line model among the diesels is the BMW X1 xDrive25d. Delivering 160 kW/218 hp and peak torque of 450 Newton metres, its engine presents a further boost in tractive power. Ensuring instantaneous power development that continues all the way into the high rev ranges is its multi-stage charging with variable intake geometry for the smaller of the two turbochargers. Common-rail direct injection uses piezo injectors developing a maximum pressure of 2 000 bar. The BMW X1 xDrive25d sprints from the blocks to 100 km/h (62 mph) in 6.8 seconds. Average fuel consumption in the EU test cycle is 5.9 litres per 100 kilometres (47.9 mpg imp) and CO2 emissions are 154 grams per kilometre.
"BMW to Debut 62 mpg ( bold and bigger fonts, US gal 128 oz my sic)116d EfficientDynamics Edition at 2012 Geneva Motor Show"
No plans have been announced by BMW of North America to import either of these cars.
link title
Even at $4.36 per gal that would be .07 cents per mile driven.
Probably too expensive for US market competition.
BUT as we have discussed multiple times who knows what will be done to the US market versions to jimmy the figures. So for example on my 2003 Jetta TDI we got a 5 speed (not unhappy) and 2 mpg LESS than the European version. It should have been EPA 44/51 instead of 42/49 mpg. Less is better don't cha know !?
http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/06/05/world-premiere-new-2012-bmw-1-series/
It just goes to show you there are a dizzying array of available diesels that damn near get better fuel mileage in almost EVERY oem offered here. As Gagrice has said many times, it is fairly obvious why we don't get anything near the options available on WW and European markets.
No different than a hundred years ago when John D Rockefeller was able to manipulate the market to sell all the nasty old gas he was dumping. Our government is OWNED by big business including the Oil Companies. A little nudge here or there and the bar is raised to keep diesel cars out. If we were serious about saving fossil fuel which I don't believe for a minute we are, a way would be made to reconcile our emissions standards with the rest of the World's. The demand is there for diesel vehicles. The proof is in the sales by the German auto makers. And the prices are a premium. More than can be justified by fuel savings. Of course the same can be said about hybrids.
Do you know if crude can be cracked in such a manner to change the amount of gasoline made from a barrel of oil? In other words, is it possible to favor diesel or another product in the cracking process instead of having to make a certain amount of gasoline from that barrel of crude?
http://www.txoga.org/articles/308/1/WHAT-A-BARREL-OF-CRUDE-OIL-MAKES
The reason we don't get the European diesels is that a) they don't meet our safety and emissions requirements, b) even if they did, they probably are not price-competitive in the USA and c) 95% of American buyers don't like diesel cars.
Soooo, if you add 'em all up, it seems obvious to me that it is not cost-effective for a European manufacturer to produce a USA-compliant diesel in the lower price ranges (that is, if they can't be coupled to high luxury and large size). There is not enough profit margin in a small car to offset the cost of matching US-compliance and there is not enough market in the USA for passenger diesel cars.
Even if you made these small vehicles USA compliant, they wouldn't sell-they'd be too expensive vis a vis their gasser competitors, which can, in hybrid form, just about match them.
To address Steve's post. Really it is not rocket science. It is really as simple as the above quote. Because it is SO simple, that almost makes it politically impossible and it has been that way for decades if not generations.