What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

For as much flak as trading with Brazil generates, yeah for some reason the fact that Citgo has a huge presence in the USA generates almost no heartburn. (Presidentae Hugo Chavez's state run (Donald Trump emphasis HUGE) oil company)

Shoot the aim 40-60 years ago WAS to open up South American (continent) trade !! ??

ateixeira

Sad, actually, how little people here care. The best selling cars in Brazil are Fiesta-sized.

It'll take another gas price spike, and even then the effect is only temporary.

To be fair, hybrids and diesels beat those so they're not really the pinnacle of efficiency any more.

ateixeira

Dunno what holds back trade with Brazil, I think they figure they can get what they need from Mexico cheaper and quicker.

I think Lula peeved the Americans when he had cigars with Castro a while ago in a show of independence. Dilma took over but she was his right hand.

Some there view the USA as very Imperial. Didn't help that when Bush visited they asked the Governor of the state he was in to walk through a metal detector. In his home state!

The secret service can get a little carried away.

ruking1

Of course, I had to do this with everything converging together. Thank heavens no earthquake !

1. Friday afternoon/evening wall to wall commute hours
2. Hitting Four congession zones

a. San Jose area commute traffic
b. mid peninsula commute traffic
c. San Francisco area commute traffic
1. 42,000 fan baseball game traffic
2 .untold thousands of fans for NFL Football
3. Streets of San Francisco traffic
4. Fillmore District traffic and parking shuffle
f.. GG bridge tourista season and Marin County area commute traffic

The aftermath? ! 29 mpg. (341 miles 11.5 gal) 12 VW Touareg TDI. Forgot, A/C and ipod blasting the whole time.

gagrice

That is a testimony to how little fuel a diesel uses while idling. I have to go test drive the Touareg TDI.

ruking1

Upon reflection, the post (conditions) might have been misleading (actually more delays and congestion). The return leg was on (The Nimitz) Highway 880 (massive construction and rework) through the McArthur MAZE. The "Maze" is a major and massive Bay Area artery (code for almost 24/7 MESS and perpetual delays and accidents).

link title

gagrice

Last time I was in San Francisco was about 1969. I cannot remember leaving anything there I would want to retrieve. San Diego is bad enough. I would waste an extra 50 gallons of gas to avoid cities like that if at all possible. If I have to go North I only travel early on Saturday or Sunday Morning through the Armpit of CA, Los Angeles.

ruking1

While I have been to San Diego a lot over the years, the last real time I spent there was 5/6 years ago when the youngest was considering UC San Diego and when she got accepted, we went back once again, to really get the lay of the land (so to speak). She decided on one more north of us.

I, for sure would not move (back) into SF. It was great to grow up there, but I'd be hard pressed for real reasons to move back. I have heard "fixer uppers" start @ .8 M. You might get a foreclosure a tad cheaper. Most SF contractors who bids SF remodels, adds a min of 40% to the bid and sweats it to make what he originally thought.

It is great if you are in high tech and sitting on way above water stock options !!

As it applies to cars, if you do not have a garage or Smitty built tube bumpers, you can easily depend on 1,000 to 2,000 front bumper and separate 1,000 to 2,000 rear bumper damage habitually. When you add to that side damage and or the occasional friendly but anonymous hits, well I guess repair shops flourish.

gagrice

Growing up in Los Angeles was great as well. It is now one big ghetto with a few wealthy gated enclaves for the masters to look over the masses. The only thing that has improved is the smog from the 50s and 60s was horrible. Thankfully they got the lead out of gasoline. Though it is still a dangerous thing to smell. Give me diesel smell any day.

lemmer

I will let you know when I see it tomorrow. He is running three days behind because the air conditioner started leaking all over the interior the day he bought it. Oops.

ruking1

That can not be a delightful beginning ! :sick: On the other hand, it is best for all of that stuff (if it is going to happen) under the warranties. The good/bad news the A/C going bad is NOT diesel related.

lemmer

The saga continues -

While they were cleaning up my FIL's new Passat for the original delivery, they found the airbag light was on. They had to replace part of the wiring harness to correct this, apparently.

He gets his new car for the first time a couple days later, drives home, carpets are soaked. He takes it back, they keep it for a couple days, replace a seal or two, dry out the carpets and return it.

He drives it home, carpets are soaked. This time it wasn't raining. He tells them to check the a/c like he suggested the first time.

He still doesn't have the car back, drove a loaner up to my house. They still haven't fixed it but have ordered new carpets because the original ones are now ruined.

I did find out that it is a maroon color and has a DSG transmission.

ruking1

I do not think there can be ANY doubt that oems really have a percentage (no matter how small or large) that can be up to " snake bit " from the start. Let's hope for his sake this falls under the category of grating and annoying adjustment pains. In my own personal experiences, I can only think of one car that seemed to have a succession of things go wrong. Not that this matters to anyone or even me anymore as it is water way under the bridge: 1985 Toyota Camry gasser.

ruking1

An anecdotal example @ 178,000 miles, I just filled 12 gal @ 584 miles for 48 (.67) mpg. While easily within the range of what I normally get (48-52 mpg) , a tad off from the 50 mpg .

I think I figured out why, I haven't washed the bugger for easily 2.5 months. :sick: It had dirt in places I almost didn't know that it could go. I also lost 3/4 #'s of air per tire also.

stever

Kept forgetting to check prices but finally remembered yesterday.

Regular here is $4.09.

Diesel is $4.07.

:-)

ruking1

We just had a "supply disruption" @ a Chevron Plant/Refinery that is reputed to supply 25% of NorCal fuel. D2 was $4.20 CP and 4.29 CCard. RUG $4.29 CP.

ateixeira

That is a testimony to how little fuel a diesel uses while idling

True but even simple start/stop tech could cut that down to zero.

elias

not really zero. no free lunch. ya gotta count the extra fuel needed to recharge the battery enough to *restart* the engine.

ruking1

Practically speaking I think it is really a nit. Even Prius that has been using it for a while does NOT define the fuel savings, even as it advertises being a good "city" traffic vehicle. When the 04 Prius came out, 60 mpg was advertised for city mpg.
This was shown to be a huge BUST, as many owners reported more like 43 to 48 mpg.

In any case, oems are trying to incorporate all the "low hanging fruit" so to speak to boost EPA mpg as high as possible.

I have also read in passing that the 03 VW TDI's used .2 gal of fuel per hour of idle.

qbrozen

actually, an alternator is ALWAYS turning while the engine is running, so it costs no extra fuel to charge the battery.

Additionally, it depends on how the stop-start works. If I'm not mistaken, there is a form of system (and this may even be standard for all I know, I haven't done the research) that doesn't use the battery/starter at all. It preloads a cylinder with air/fuel on a compression stroke. Then to restart, all it does is spark that plug, igniting the mixture and restarting the engine.

ateixeira

I believe the newest captures energy while slowing to run the alternator, so even that little bit of charge is "free".

That's not even on hybrids, BTW, that's with conventional cars.

elias

yes, the laws of physics do have their nits don't they.
that's cool to preload the cylinder and then spark one plug. not free, and maybe not so smooth a start

the idea of the alternator only charging on engine decel is also very nifty but will not eliminate the need to charge at steady-state or on accel, plenty of the time.

it's nice that mpg on some vehicles has gotten so good that designers can worry about smaller and smaller nits to improve mpg.

ateixeira

maybe not so smooth a start

In BMW's case not even maybe... :sick:

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/23/2014-volkswagen-golf-r-prototype-makes-its-fi- rst-appearance/

Plus with all Golfs 150 lbs or so lighter, the next TDI should produce some great MPG numbers.

ruking1

The way I read the link you posted, it is a GASSER and not a diesel. Are you just wishing the new platform Golf 2014 WILL be a diesel? I guess I am thinking out loud the GTD (GTI gasser equivalent) will have to do a lot better than 236# ft of torque. I am swagging 275 to 300 # ft + emhasis on the +. When you combine minus - 150 #s, it should indeed be more nimble and yield 1 to 2 mpg better, all things being equal.

gagrice

Will the Trax be in the cards for the USA??

The 1.7L diesel engine will deliver a power output of 130 hp (96 kW) and a maximum torque of 300 Nm. All powertrains with manual transmission come with Start/Stop functionality. Both the 1.7L diesel and the 1.4L turbo gasoline engine will also be offered with a six-speed automatic transmission.

Chevy Trax

stever

Not unless something changes.

2013 Chevrolet Trax Not Bound for U.S (Inside Line)

We'll get the Buick Encore which is a similar size I guess. But only with a gasser engine.

gagrice

Buy a diesel vehicle in the USA before moving there. You can drive it down. Get ready for higher prices for fuel.

Gasoline Prices in Costa Rica - As of June 2012

Regular gas is 735 colones per liter x 3.78541178 = 2,782 colones per gallon (US$5.64)
Super gas is 746 colones per liter x 3.78541178 = 2,824 colones per gallon (US$5.73) and
Diesel is 667 colones per liter x 3.78541178 = 2,525 colones per gallon (US$5.12)

ateixeira

The boss said "The future is diesel and all-wheel-drive".

And the only AWD Golf is the R, at least in the USA.

So let's see what direction they end up taking, long-term.

ruking1

One diesel is an all wheel drive. Other than snow and winter operation (which I do not live in, but do go UP and back to and from), I am not sure of either the utility and function of the extra cost for the all wheel drive. Right now it is literally seamless and I can tell no difference between 2 and 4 wheel drive on a practical basis.

I have typically gotten 112,300 miles from a front wheel drive Jetta (heavier than a Golf). Just swaging I highly doubt a all wheel drive Golf will improve on that a real lot. Ditto for lateral G rating and for and aft roadability.

ateixeira

I guess I interpret that a little differently than you, i.e. diesel AND AWD on the same vehicles.

ruking1

Well I guess to me it is more a question of what will ACTUALLY come to the US markets. The article in that sense seems like a patchwork and comes across as disjointed. I know the Golf R (GTD) has LONG been on both European and world markets. Current US market GOLFs are the 140 hp and 236# ft of torque variety @ 2994 #'s. As you can see, the US markets get the slow mo versions!? :lemon:

@ 256 hp GTD to 260 hp (GTI), the article implies,( but really seems a bit disjointed) that the 2014 Golf R will be more even MORE powerful (than 256 hp) and 150 #'s lighter. 2844 #'s., in addition to the all wheel drive direction. So IF we use the ratios, the min should be app 432 # ft. This turns an already stellar car into a SUPERCAR !!!

So that is why I said what I said. 406# ft of torque already blows one away (225 hp) and that is on a 4,974 # porker, T/S of 135 mph. 432 # ft on a sub 2900 # car. SIGN me UP !

ateixeira

This may be useless trivia, but I was chatting with a friend and we wondered what market Subaru sold the most diesel in, as a % of sales, and that would be Ireland.

The only models that are available in gas are the BRZ and the Impreza 1.6 XV. That's it.

Everything else they sell is diesel, including all the volume models - Legacy, Outback, and Forester.

http://www.subaru.ie/

ruking1

Evidently the US markets per person are lightweights compared to Ireland AND Europe as a whole.

Discard your stereotypes: people in the U.S. own fewer passenger vehicles on average than in almost all other developed nations.

It also might not be commonly known that the US markets have app 3 to 5% diesels while the European markets are upwards of 50 % + diesels.

stever

File under things you thought were true but aren't.

The study seems to have a few holes in it though.

ateixeira

#1 in consumption, though. Mostly cheap chinese goods I'm sure.

fintail

"Passenger vehicles" also = motorcycles, no doubt - of which there are far more per capita on the road in Europe than here, especially <500cc machines.

stever

Ah, I took the consumption number to mean energy.

scwmcan

Apparently the main problem with this article is that the data used is only half of the picture, it only includes cars, for light trucks ( I.e. pick-ups, minivans, and SUVs) there is another set od data that is roughly the same size for the US, there are more used as passenger cars ( personal/ family use) than anywhere else in the world, when these are included the number of vehicles per capital roughly doubles, to more of the expected number. Motorcycles and scooters are not included in these numbers, if they were then lots of other countries would have high numbers.

ruking1

Yes, typically the NHTSA figures INCLUDES motorcycles. For the general audience, This is NOT my opinion/ oversight. For anyone that doubts this, I have (in the past) posted the NHTSA.gov and anyone can inquire/verify/fight with or vilify the NHTSA's data, they have collected.

While I didn't VERIFY it, I am assuming the European data that I have read in passing, includes motorcycles also. In other words, a semblance of apples to apples. :shades:

gagrice

Owning a motorcycle does not mean less energy used. My SIL had a 500CC Yamaha road bike he commuted to work with. It never got over 35 MPG. He bought a Yaris and gets 40 MPG. The only advantage to a MC is getting through traffic jams. A few motor scooters will get 100 MPG or better.

Now a diesel Harley would be cool. 100 MPG on bio-diesel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNgxVOI1NM&feature=endscreen&NR=1

stever

An oil field trash Sloper friend of mine visited a while back on his motorcycle. He got around 32 or so but was pulling a trailer. To make matters worse, he couldn't even get 4 gallons in his tank so he was buying gas every 100 miles.

A diesel bike? How about an electric one that you don't have to worry about falling over at the red light? (Detroit News)

Interesting post over on the Liberty CRD board about a guy in Hawaii who ran biodiesel. Cheap, so long as you didn't value your time.

gagrice

There is a BIG difference between running SVO and certified bio diesel. He must not have been on Maui. They produce very high grade biodiesel that is certified for Mercedes engines in Hawaii at 100%. The 20MPG does seem low for the Liberty. Hawaii would be ok for an electric vehicle if you have solar electricity.

stever

Sounds like he was making it in his backyard.

Funny how you never read about people making gasoline in their bathtub. :-)

ruking1

Its funny how the national discussion changes when we are finally clued in on the facts that we are literally better and BIGGER than the middle east when it comes to coal, natural gas, oil, natural thermo, etc. Also because of @ least two or three oceans, bio diesel from algae is on par with being able to be manufactured at will. We have deserts with sun literally 12/7 and the same enviromentalists that advocate solar and wind and renewable want to stop solar and wind and other renewables from happening.

gagrice

Why not set up Huge ponds in the desert to raise algae and tilapia. produce food and biodiesel at the same time.

Originally found in Africa, Tilapia has been farmed for more than 2,500 years. Tilapia is a perfect fish for aquaponics because of its rapid growth, large size, and because it tastes great. This hardy fish can adapt to most any condition with the exception of water temperature. Tilapia prefer warm water - at least 75 degrees Fahrenheit. It takes about 9 months for our Tilapia to grow to a harvestable size, about 1.5 pounds.

What does Tilapia eat? At Growing Power, we feed our fish duckweed, ground-up salad greens from the greenhouse, worms, and Tilapia love to eat algae from the side of the tank.

http://www.growingpower.org/aquaponics.htm

ateixeira

Owning a motorcycle does not mean less energy used

Emissions aren't necessarily lower, either.

MythBusters had an episode on the subject, and bikes polluted more.

They don't have the sophisticated emissions equipment that cars require.

ruking1

Absolutely. The fact that a desert can be most fruitful is really not modern or rocket science, but dates back to ancient times. It is even documented in the Bible to name one source. So yes, if species' of edible fish loves algae and we can use the deserts to raise plants for food, fish and fuel, bio diesel, wind, solar and geothermal, with a by product of oxygen and consumption of massive amounts of Co2 : a plethora of spin off benefits or win x 7 by 7, as far that goes !!!!! The eco folks seem to want to take the 666 approach. It is almost like they have not ever seen a project they didn't want to muck up or at best STOP. But then again you dont see them living nomaitically off the land like our native Americans did.

It is well known that from a geological point of view, there is literally ample (fresh) water under almost any desert one can name. The key is always does it make economc sense to drill and "harvest". In almost most to all cases the anwers is probably no. If so the Sahara would have a hell of a lot more water oasis's.

xwesx

I think the major drawback here is the potential for salinization (side effect of evaporation). Get that under control, and I agree it holds vast potential.

ruking1

Filled today with the cheapest rot gut ULSD I could find (same place, last time). Swagging getting maybe ... 49 mpg. To my surprise, it posted 52.47 mpg (509 miles 9.7 gal.) It was not a real fill, normally let it go to 12.5, 13.5 gal. Filled today because of upcoming LD weekend. I think there is a lot to be said for keeping it under 90 mph !!