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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bingo, publicity stunt by a celebrity.

    It's like the folks who install solar panels facing the street instead of facing the sun (as told by Gary).

    Luxury isn't green at all.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My neighbor has solar panels facing South. They are helping his AC bill as he runs the AC a lot. However, come fall they will be blocked by my huge oak tree for most of the Winter and into Spring. He heats his house with a wood stove so it may work out ok for him.

    He cannot force me to cut down the oak as it is an Engelmann protected by the endangered species act or some such law. In fact you would probably get more jail time for cutting down an oak tree on your own land than for beating your wife. My neighbor to the South has very large pine trees along her property line. That would kill any solar for me on the roof at least. Maybe a diesel generator would be a better way to beat our high cost electricity. :confuse:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Hopefully the prevailing wind will blow the generator exhaust her way ? ;)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited July 2012
    Especially if I get a WW2 surplus diesel Gen Set with a big bank of old Telco batteries. Those straight diesel exhaust can be noisy. I could build a shed far away from the house by her property line. Blup,blup,blup,blup,blup 24/7 :shades:

    Gas vs. diesel

    For a permanent electrical system, the cardinal rule of generator shopping is do not even consider a gasoline-powered unit that runs at 3600 rpm . . . for several good reasons:

    Almost all of these machines are built for intermittent use only.
    Almost all of them will self-destruct when used for prolonged periods at even modest loads.
    Almost all are optimistically over-rated.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2012
    I have not been around generators for a very long time. However diesel generators were the rule when I was. Indeed I think the (gasser) generator came into consumer consciousness only because most that actually bought them could in effect fill them from a common use RUG container.

    I might have posted this before but VW has LONG since marketed the (under) 2.0 L diesel generator for both commercial and marine applications. Of course its "multi dimensional" use in TDI cars might be a good "second" use ! :P Further down the FYI line, one of the reasons why the 2.0 (and under now) has a 25,000 hour design life (@ 3/4 of redline rpm no less, aka 3,800) (45 mph avg or 1.125 m miles) was because of the "generator application" Natually in the passenger car diesel vehicle applications there are a plethora of modifying to deadly variables.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What about propane?

    I wouldn't even consider a gas generator. We seem to have a major power outage about every 7 years or so. I'd use it once and then have to siphon out the gas and/or winterize it each time.

    I keep a spare propane tank all the time, always full, plus it's clean and I wouldn't have to worry about fuel going stale.

    What do you guys think?

    Diesel generator would still have issues with stale fuel and storage, plus I'd have to go buy diesel fuel after each storm.

    What say ye?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2012
    I really don't know. It would sound logical, albeit more costly. I am familiar with propane forklifts.

    This is really the chink in the "ALL" electric armor. CA G & especially E (electric) routinely have massive black to brown to ration outs. To now put all electric cars (in effect) ON the GRID borders on utter disaster and is mildly to grossly irresponsible. While this is opaque to even die hard enviro cons, solar and wind is not even close to covering the fix demands, let alone seasonal demands like increased A/C use during summer. I mean really what are the hard core enviro cons going to do; cut A/C during summer and let the ones like old folks and at risk folks DIE from heat stroke? They won't even cut A/C to prison systems. Again this stuff is totally bogus.

    So that I am not vague, the very LAST thing my electric power company and city, county and state and probably country wants is to NOT be a consumer of energy and off the grid. Even worse they do NOT want people to be net net net electric energy PRODUCERS.

    So for example, if I consumer $50 per month in electricity, they do not want me to consumer ZERO, or off the grid. They would LOATH me (others also) to be a NET NET NET producer of electrical energy or the utility company paying ME $50.00 per month. The last I read it is actually against the law !!! Even the capital structure is against me (you). It will cost me app $30,000 for equipment and installation. For what, a $50 month/600 year electric bill ? WOW a quick and dirty B/E gives me 50 years. LOL. I will be over a 100 years old by then.

    We can cut the Carl Sagan talk, aka millions, billions and trillions and beyond ;) The above are the brass tacks.

    You also need to factor in that the northeast has literally for generations dealt with heating oil. So I do not see that as a new issue. If it ever took hold then yes we could draw lessons from the northeast.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Costco had some emergency gen sets that run on gas or Propane. For just emergency use that would be best. They should come with a transfer switch to cut out the Utility power.

    I was thinking more of a full blown get off the grid system. With Solar panels, Diesel gen set and Big storage batteries. Now that our utility will give credit for excess production, it makes solar a better choice. With a Natural Gas/Propane backup a person should be covered.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Diesel competes with heating oil demand here in winter, which is part of the reason the fuel costs more here.

    We have gas heat, too bad more houses don't.

    My brother-in-law has a huge oil drum in his basement and has to fill it about 1.5 times per year. It's cold up there in CT, too. He fills in the off season when it's cheap but he runs out before the season is over.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,688
    edited July 2012
    I had some heating oil put in my tank last week. I generally don't do it until October or November, but my wife had a good point that the cost was reasonable right now (for this day & age) at $3.57 per gallon (#1), so I splurged and had 750 gallons delivered. That should do me for more than a year.

    It still stings, but it is better than the $4.03 I paid last time I had fuel delivered. At several hundred gallons, even a cent or two can really add up.

    When I get a generator, it will be diesel and it will be tied directly into my storage tank.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That totally makes sense - you have plentiful fresh supply. I bet it would run for days, also.

    Supposedly a propane tank gives you about 10-12 hours or so. Enough to run overnight. I have 2 tanks, too.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    And shops a lot, patronizes aesthetic maintenance establishments, has hired help but thinks they run a house, never has had a real job, etc.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    Sounds like he could have driven a Veyron 20K miles a year and not polluted as much as that stunt.

    Speaking of propane...what about using it in cars? Same for natural gas. I have seen quite a few conversions of larger cars in my area - usually Impalas.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Most of the Brazilian taxi fleet runs on the stuff. CHEAP to run, very cheap. Beats even diesel in cost per mile (and Brazilian diesel costs half as much as gas).

    They stuff a propane tank in the trunk, and usually are flex fuel.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Propane conversions on PU trucks was very popular in the 1970s and 80s. Have not seen one for a while. Propane is very expensive here. Last time I filled our tank it was $3.27 per GGE and took 125 GGE. During the coldest part of the winter like just above freezing :P I can use 100 GGE in a month. Not real efficient with Forced air heating systems.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I know this is WAY off topic, but not even a WORD about the current downing of INDIA's electrical grid from the our enviro cons, despite their head long descent into making us accept that abyss. On the financial news, they say that 600,000,000 folks are without electrical power. This scale is almost unimaginable in the US !!!! If the WHOLE USA (country) went down that would only inconvenience HALF of India @ 307,000,000 folks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited July 2012
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/world/asia/india-blackout/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

    What a mess.

    Edit: we lost power for 3 days here. A Leaf would have been stranded, but a Volt or Prius Plug-in could run on gas in those situations.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited July 2012
    ( Did someone summon an "enviro con?" Since none replied, I will reply in their stead. )

    Um, they ran out of coal and they exceeded the capacity of their grid.

    What does that have to do with green power sources ad cleaning up air pollution?

    Who in the Green Movement wants us to exceed our capacity? If we "run out of coal" that will not be necessarily a bad thing in my eyes.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited July 2012
    First we will NEVER run out of coal. Our infrastructure is probably better than India. However we just had about 5 million customers out for a week. The more we depend on the weather, sun and wind to provide power, the better our chances of long outages. Coal generators are extremely reliable. No other source is close. CA is now 60% reliant on natural gas. The Eco Nuts want to stop gas production, claiming it causes earthquakes. The Audubon society wants Wind mills taken down. Hydro the number one alternative energy is under constant barrage by environmentalist.

    If we do have more than a handful of EVs to power that will impact the grid. As a lot of the alternative energy is at its lowest at night. Massive outages like the current mess in India is very possible in the USA.

    If I just had a diesel SUV with a generator attachment. :P
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    And if it goes like the famous "NYC" blackout of most of the East Coast way back when, the birth rate will jump way up in 9 months. :sick:

    Of course, Snopes says it's false but it was still a fun story.

    Toyota corporate ran interference for McCartney back in '08 when the Lexus story broke (assuming the commenter really did work for corporate).

    "To ensure the car’s quality, make sure security guidelines were met and meet a scheduled marketing photography deadline, it was air-shipped on a regularly scheduled commercial flight over to the UK."
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited July 2012
    "horrified after learning it was delivered by plane. Paul has always campaigned for green issues and he can’t understand why anyone would send an enormous car from Japan to Britain on a plane."

    Oh yes,.... I routinely get delivery on $158,000 dollars gas sucking cars that I do not know are coming to my house ! :P Gosh is this guy running for or practicing for MP? (Minister of Parliament)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2012
    Friend of mine flew a car to her house one time. Only easy way to get it from Anchorage to Barrow unless you want to take months and hope the barge gets there in the summer. And it was a lowly generic sedan. Look on the bright side; you have to either use jet fuel or diesel for the tug. :)

    btw, diesel fuel here is $4.38. Regular jumped to $3.84 although you can find it for $3.68 if you drive a bit. Not sure what the cheapest diesel in an hour radius is.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826


    3.79 RUG
    3.99 PUG
    3.89 D2
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    Indeed almost all associated with "GRIDS" (those with and without benefits, those with or without something to gain) will tell you they all need MAJOR upgrades in the billions, if not trillions of dollars.

    Even deep in the heart of the "silicon valley, CA golden triangle" has regular outages. This is even with a more recent addition (last 15 years) of a electrical power plant that is now being upgraded AGAIN to increase its meager capacity.

    As you and most Californians know, during the imperial reign of Gov Gray Daivs, democrat (I should not even need to note this) CA power plants were ordered/mandated to switch to natural gas generation and by default sources. At the time is seemed almost illogical. Indeed after the 15 mins it took me to get over the shock, I started to really investigate the why and more downstream consequences of this.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    gas sucking

    Getting a little carried away?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What zip code?

    If diesel is only 10 cents more you're lucky. Around me the difference is 4 times as much. :sick:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    Well no. Did you look at the EPA ratings? It gets less mpg than the 2001 Corvette Z06. If I get less than 25 mpg after a more spirited drive I am wondering what is wrong with the car or am probably in jail. The TDI Touareg gets 22% better ! Indeed I get 30% better and some would say it is closer to pedal to the metal driving, but certainly not I !! ;) Funny how lefties, when they hear their language spoken by folks they perceived are against their agenda see it (the same language) as hostile? ;) As for me, my op ed on 23 mpg (Edmunds.com gets 20 combined?) , just as no one cares about me getting 50 mpg, nobody cares about 23 mpg. I have already gone on record about the bogus ness and hypocrisy of some to all of these issues.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    I would not call having some of the highest fuel prices in the nation,...lucky !?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited August 2012
    Gas Buddy shows San Diego RUG and Diesel both at $3.805 average. Costco still has gas at one station for $3.59. Cheapest I have paid this year was $3.49. That was short lived. Actually premium is not that much more as a percentage.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I compared 2011s and the Lexus beats the Corvette auto by +2mpg overall and can carry twice as many passengers.

    You can't just look at the highway numbers.

    If you want to compare to a TDI at least look at the V10 Touareg, which wasn't efficient either.

    Sitting in traffic that diesel would get 0 mpg, while the Lexus at least could rely on its batteries for a while.

    It's no fuel miser, but far from a guzzler. Try a Quattroporte for that, at 5mpg less.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $3.39 for the cheapest RUG in my zip. Kinda cheap, actually, accounting for inflation.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    Well that really was the point to the posting, no matter what you say about me "can't doing things" nobody really cares, not even the enviro cons. It has always been a "CONTROL" issue. If mpg was really ever the issue, American oems could built them. If they won't or can't, the system can let in the Euro imports that actually do. They don't.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I'd have no issues with say YOU paying the inflation costs say from 1987 and me paying the remaining real costs !! :P I can almost certainly bet and be sure YOU would however. :P BTW gas was (if I remember correctly ) 1.84 in 1987. So you would pay 84% of the adjusted price?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you want to compare to a TDI at least look at the V10 Touareg

    I think the only purpose behind the V10 TDI was to establish it as production vehicle for racing. It got into CA because it was so heavy it was in the truck category. They brought 5 of them to the Arctic to start their around the globe tour. People paid a hefty fee to drive one of them for a given segment. I would still like to know what the over all mileage was for the Touareg TDI that set a new PanAmericana record from the tip of So America to the Arctic. I sent an email asking about mileage and did not get any response.

    http://www.tdi-panamericana.com/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Celebrities think they are more important than they actually are, so I take stories like that with a grain of salt.

    I could care less what Sir Paul drives.

    Ashton gave one to Demi right before the divorce - but if he knew they would separate, maybe someone gave it to him and he didn't want it, LOL.

    The animosity towards hybrids here continues to crack me up.

    Hybrids have a purpose (city driving), as do diesels (highway driving). Diesel + hybrid even better. They are not mutually exclusive any more.

    The LS is not a guzzler by any stretch, though.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    You are demonstrating what I have been saying all along.

    However this IS a diesel thread.

    There is absolutely NO hostility toward hybrids. Now I can only speak for myself, but I have NONE. I also chose "other" when it came to getting 3 hybrids.03 Prius 04 Prius, 12 VW T hybrid.

    However there is both legislative regulatory and economic hostility toward diesels. A few posts earlier someone posted about the$ 100 M and still no diesel products, Mahindra debacle.

    It has yet to meet any bang for the buck metric, for MY real dollars. Indeed it really has not for a lot of other folks (given the volume and percentage). If what you have been posting is true, YOU don't have a hybrid.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Check out fuelly and you'll see when the V10 TDI was around the mileage reports were not good. You have to pick through the data but you'll find mpg in the teens.

    The gassers a little (but not much) worse.

    How many people watched or even knew about that Touareg tour? Probably 1% of the ones who watched the Lexus park itself on Oprah.

    Each was a halo with different targets.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited August 2012
    There is absolutely NO hostility toward hybrids

    It's not enough for me to laugh alone at that comment, so I'll ask others to join in laughter.

    You just called the LS a "guzzler" a few minutes ago. Hyperbole at least.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    I take it reality bothers you? ;) So is 23/20 better or worse than VW T TDI 28/30?

    Just like the 25 I get on the Corvette Z06 is a gas guzzler compared to any diesel I have, aka 30-31, 41, 50 mpg.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The new TDI doesn't perform like the old V10, though.

    I could not find one single owner reporting even 20mpg with the V10.

    Maybe that's why it's not around any more.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    That was a false scenario of your making, not mine.

    What are you going to do next compare a 50 year old Corvette V-8 engine to a late model Corvette V-8 engine?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So is 23/20 better or worse than VW T TDI

    FYI the Phaeton TDI was 16/22, so the LS wins overall combined.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited August 2012
    false scenario of your making, not mine

    You might recall that you were the one who brought up the 2001 Corvette.

    Modern VW TDI super lux sedan vs. Lexus, the hybrid wins.

    The Bluetec hybrid proves even Mercedes wants to use batteries to get city mpg up. 16mpg is pathetic.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    I am sure you would get more warm fuzzies in the hybrid threads ! :sick:

    I have said long ago that the US was one of the defacto dumping ground for most of MB gas guzzling product line. Just a short perusal of MB available in Europe will show a plethora of more fuel sipping and diesel models. So if a person like you wants to pay the premium for a MB hybrid, it is your monies and still so they say, a free country. Indeed since you are talking of hybrids (on a diesel thread) VW Touareg, VW offers a hybrid that has a 380 hp/438 # ft of torque getting 24 mpg (one better than the Lexus 600 H @ an app 11k premium, albeit 60k cheaper than the 600 H. YOU could buy 2. Now aint that in your definition a win/win/win? :P ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not a greenie or a tree hugger by a long shot, but I think we should all keep an open mind to useful technology. That might include a combination of both electric+diesel solutions.

    Phaeton is more comparable to the LS, both being flagship sedans. It may be hard to accept but 23mpg is a whole lot better than 16 mpg city. Maybe not so pointless after all.

    I'm not a fan of the Touareg with any engine. It's too big/heavy outside, sort of smallish inside.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Funny story:

    http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/dealer-driver-battle-over-bmw-1.1349- 751#.UBl1rHmwX0z

    You'd think BMW would settle for the bad publicity alone.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    there also is talk of bringing a 1.6-liter diesel with 220 pounds-feet of torque to the United States.

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20120730/OEM04/307309983#ixzz22Jy5miKz

    Wonder what car they'd stuff that in. A Fit diesel would be a good performer and get great mpg.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    "I'm not a fan of the Touareg with any engine. It's too big/heavy outside, sort of smallish inside."

    That is why there are 585 models and growing.

    ..."And there also is talk of bringing a 1.6-liter diesel with 220 pounds-feet of torque to the United States."...

    Given Honda's track record in bringing diesels to the US market (04 was the concept to market Honda cTDI engine) wake me up in 8 to 12 years, if it indeed shows up.

    For a guy that's picky about interior room, (I personally swim in a Touareg) you sure have a perverted sense of interior room in both a Miata and Honda Fit !? Either are small for even smaller persons.

    Funny how you glossed over Honda not bringing a hybrid to the US market? It is almost like the hybrid will not give a competitive advantage. It will bring it to the European markets!? Again it really goes to show the days are numbered for the slush box A/T. One of the lynchpins of better gasser mpg is not with the slush box. The real quesitions are how well the CVT will be accepted.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    wake me up in 8 to 12 years if it indeed shows up

    Good one, sad but true.

    They should bring the CR-V diesel. It's already a best seller here, a diesel would steal a bunch of Escape hybrid sales and steal thunder from the 35mpg CX5 SkyActiv.

    interior room in both a Miata and Honda Fit

    Miata is my 2nd car, remember I also own a van.

    My mom has a Fit and they are *HUGE* inside. I'm 6 feet and I could wear a cowboy hat. Wife and 2 kids had room to spare in the back. Funny thing is in Brazil is competes as a small minivan, not a B segment car.

    In terms of interior space, Fit is an over-achiever. Toureg an under-achiever. Almost 5000 lbs of mass and you get so-so mid-size room.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited August 2012
    We must be in two different universes. I went to check out a 2011/2012 Honda Fit. I was not impressed at all with its interior room and I have been living with a 04 Civic, for more than 140,000 miles. Not only that, but fuel economy.com gives the 04 Civic better fuel mileage despite having the "BIGGER" engine and I would swag "sloppier" transmission. The Fit also has a 5 speed to the Civics 4 speed. The Civic was 3.3k cheaper also.

    Now I am not complaining about the Civic's 38-42 mpg (yes higher than what fuel economy.com lists). The VW TDI's operating costs are still cheaper. Again only as a comparison in the same commutes, it gets 48-52 mpg.
This discussion has been closed.