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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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From what I am reading it should be priced about the same. I am wondering how much it would take to modify a Golf TDI to get the same performance of the GTD. You can get a loaded Golf TDI right now well under invoice.
As for the polarization on here. I think that is common among car people. Most cars are a love hate relationship. The people with no opinion rarely show up on Edmund's.
Why would you (SHE really) want to give up the Sienna's room? Especially for the almost 10 mpg worse she does (in comparison) when YOU drive? Defacto you are really ok with it, even when you are there ! (otherwise you would drive?) I do not think she has an issue with it. YOU do ! ? I think all of us are ok with a soccer mom being a .... socceer mom ! ? She's liiving la vida loca !?
Actually so have I. I have only own three and with app 275,000 miles. I have many many more miles and % wise in gassers than D2 products. Your above example while TYPICAL is like putting diesel under the electron microscopic and asking a legally blind person to describe in vivid detail what that person sees in LRG and LPG !!!
I think most folks gloss over the fact that in the late 1970's LRG/LPG was in widespread use and with over 95% of the passenger vehicle fleet causing the overwhelming majority of the (passenger vehicle fleet) pollution. Indeed back then, the EPA and other regulatory agencies did not see diesel passenger vehicles as even making a dent. They then, of course did not see fit to go to 15 ppm (from 500 ppm +) until 2006 (31 years later). Even the (then 2006) mandatory cut over time was .... delayed ! Indeed while everyone decried what LRG/LPG did, most didn't even know the sulfurs ppm in LRG/LPR WAS and I suspect STILL don't.
It is kind of a longer way of saying: that for as dirty as diesel was in those days, LRG/LPG was dirtier still and many times more so !!!!
Most gasser users STILL do not know that current RUG/PUG (30 to 90 ppm) fuel are BOTH STILL many more time dirtier (2 x to 13 times) than ULSD !!!!!
( 15 ppm STANDARD but delivered @ the pumps between 7 to 10 ppm sulfur) .
Probably more importantly, nobody CARES !
So not sure why you twisted it !?
A 4motion Rouatan TDI. Yeah, I could go for that!
The new 3.2-liter PowerStroke Diesel will be the only five-cylinder turbodiesel sold in the U.S.
It's already used in other products outside the U.S., including the Ranger small pickup truck that Ford does not intend to sell in the States.
Ford says the new engine will offer "smooth, responsive performance" and power as well as good fuel efficiency, reducing its operating costs for van owners and fleet operators.
The engine is not yet rated for its U.S. version, but in Europe, the five-cylinder diesel puts out 197 horsepower and 347 lb-ft of torque.
http://www.edmunds.com/auto-shows/detroit/2013/2014-ford-transit-2013-detroit-au- to-show.html
Gas at home is running ~$3.89 this week compared to $4.09 for diesel.
On the road (Iowa) I got some RUG for $3.49 while diesel at the same station was $3.99. But it really does boil down to gallons per mile. MPG Is Stupid
Most folks eyes glaze over in cents per mile driven and you want folks to do it as outlined in the Edmunds.com article?
Just what the economy needs eh? (Have to say, every time I get on the road, I'm amazed at how rich this country is).
Filled up both rigs today. RUG (87) $4.059 PUG (93) $4.399 (D2) $4.299
I paid $4.159 @ Costco for PUG in the BMW on my way home from work.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I would think about that every time we made a trip into Costco shopping. The round trip cost on our current tank of RUG in the PU truck would be $6.56. If we took the Sequoia it would be an even $7. With the new T-Reg the fuel cost is $4.14. If we are going down for just a couple items it really makes the cost much higher. Though many times we cannot get what we want at our local Albertson's. Like decent fish, beef and pork.
Riding a bike is out of the question. Even riding to Starbucks 3 miles away has too many hills for an old guy. And I hate Starbucks. Another gigantic waste of money by rich Americans.
Local Shell station
diesel $4.09
RUG $3.99
PUG $4.19
Nowadays, during 3 seasons I still use the bike (motorcycle) for a lot of shopping duty to save on gas, but is still restrictive as to how much you can bring back. I wouldn't be surprised if I've had people snap pics of french loaf sticking out of the top of the front of my jacket as I blow by them up the road, lol..
That usually only happens if I am a bit too hungry when I shop and I misjudge what will fit on the back of the bike and under the seat. I use the scooter now more than the big bike and it actually has quite a lot of space under the seat.
Well, that's certainly true! That's the price they paid for being so ubiquitous "in the day." People don't want what everyone else has. Plus, they became less and less versatile in their options to keep profit margins high as cost of materials increased. As people wanted more convenience, things like AWD went away in favor of "stow-n-go" seating, etc. So, it became a choice.
Vans are still the vehicle of choice for large families, but there are fewer of those now. Families with 3 or fewer children can basically buy any vehicle they want, so why get a minivan? "ew..." Hahahaha! Toyota spent some big bucks on trying to shed that image when they came out with their current Sienna design. Remember the "Swagger Wagon?" LOL
I'm telling ya, though, if I could get a diesel minivan, with AWD, that could reliably deliver ~30 mpg highway, I'd be all over it. Our Forester would be gone in a heartbeat. Well, okay, maybe my Fiesta since the Forester is my wife's car (and she really likes her car). There's just no way to beat the functionality and versatility of a van.
I would have seriously considered a 2WD van with diesel. I did think about getting another Sprinter van. I am sure the smallest one would get 30 MPG on the highway. The problem, I would want it converted to more of a camper van. That kicks the price up around $60k to start. And the short one is 232" long. So a mini van with diesel is needed for sure. They have them in Europe of course.
http://en.volkswagen.com/en/models/multivan/highlights.html
Car and Driver did a review:
The T5, or Multivan, which is available with an optional 180-hp, 2.0-liter twin-turbocharged diesel four-cylinder, an optional seven-speed dual-clutch automated manual transmission, and 4MOTION all-wheel drive
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2010-volkswagen-t5-multivan-first-drive-revi- ew
It also cost the equivalent of $60k USD.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
In Germany, a smaller MB or VW van can be a prestige vehicle when properly equipped. Some of the highline Multivans base around 60K Euro - tax included, of course.
For vans, form follows function, and there's beauty in that all by itself.
This is one I would like to see cross the pond with a diesel. Bigger than a Mazda5 but smaller than Sienna and Odyssey. Zip through the pics it actually has 3 seperate seats in the middle row and enough room for a small adult in the third row. Also take note of the stick shift.
I used to have a first generation Odyssey and loved the size.
Looking on the German VW site, the most basic Multivan, 2wd, steel wheels, stick, radio is optional...starts at EUR 31600. Or $42155. Even cutting 10% tax out if that is in fact included, that's still a hard sell in the US. VW must think so too, as they continually say they have no intention of bringing the Multivan here.
My friend like her's, though. I do like vans.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
The 148.5 cu ft Honda Odyssey is rated 18/27 for comparison to a much more up to date gasser.
Topped off Malibu at $3.27 today. Diesel always $4.
I think what we should have are two see-thru vials representing part of the fuel system. Have them in a position near eye level to the right of your right hand on the wheel embedded into the dash panel. One vial would be fat bodied, about 6 inches high, with a capacity of at least half a qt. It would have a digital readout that states the amt in $1.00 increments any time there was no fuel visible in the vial at all. The vial beside it, would be of much much less capacity... one that shows a level of fuel that would usually coincide with conservative (EPA) range of operation of your vehicle, after it is warmed up etc. So when you glanced quickly if you saw any fuel at all in the smaller vile you knew you were maximizing efficiency. And of course if since starting the car, clearing snow and ice off of glass area, backing out of driveway, sitting at numerous stop lights and then while in the drivethru line, you will have lots of time to view the big vial (that'd be the one that you haven't seen fuel in at all since getting in the car) and have that digital counter ding ding your dollars away....maybe THAT would clue people in. THE MODERN spontaneous electronic fuel consumption gauges and of course the basic but quite accurate vacuum gauges of yesteryear are entirely lost on many. Anyone you see filling up and putting 5 to 10 bucks at a time in, would fall easily into that category. They just don't get, nor ever will, that 2 bucks of that 5'er was used just pulling into the gas stn, sitting in line and then getting back out into traffic, and worse if having to also get back to the area/direction they were originally traveling in....probably the Tim Hortons or Starbucks :sick:
While it is not the perfect 'drivers' car, due to it having a bit more barn door for cross winds to affect your otherwise more serene drive in a more aerodynamic and lower COG vehicle, it does tick many many MANY of the boxes that are my criteria in a more perfect world. Because of FE I would opt for a size just a hair bigger than a Mazda 5. And to do so, at the risk of less T bone crash protection, I'd opt for a narrower vehicle but still long enough to be able to slip a pc of plywood or drywall in if need be some day. It would have room for two to sleep in comfort at times when you realize you are in a town that is hosting an unadvertised event that has everything booked, or what isn't booked, looks like it would be a safer stay in the car.. It would have that really easy ingress egress. Great sit up and beg type driving position if desired for those with crap backs, which also affords the look-down-the-road type visibility which is a stress reducer. That one would help offset maybe a few extra steering corrections to keep it straight in your lane if a bit windy..
It really would be about the most practical vehicle anyone who carts anything at anytime that needs affordable AWD, but also likes to have some decent urge when they do hit the loud pedal...and can do so without it costing you huge which it does with ANY gas driven counterpart.
Right now the ONLY thing we have that comes remotely close is the Mazda, and in order to get somewhat ok mileage, you have to get the stick and drive sedately everywhere, never carry passengers, never do hills, never tow anything etc etc. And even with those efforts, the most common beef people have with it...even the FWD version
Torque values of:
3.5 L 245/250 # ft vs
3.0 L 406 # ft (455# # ft) (MINUS- .5 L SMALLER) BUT 62% MORE # ft min.
are great starting points.
Another is the just adequate transmission used (probably for decades) won't cut any mustard.
Indeed one can spend on a gasser minivan for what I spent on a VW Touareg. !!! Now in those past days and years we used to transport most of a volley ball squad, chaperones , gear AND a squad and half of basketball team x 2 each. I am glad we do not have the requirements anymore.
Looking back on the experiences, given our litigious and blame everybody else society, It was STUPID to think we at least didn't have the possibilty of getting sued !!!! No good deeds go unpunished and luckily we skated.
Calculating what it would cost me to visit my kids in Indiana with the Sequoia vs the Touareg TDI using those prices.
Sequoia = $890
T-Reg TDI = $614
I get two plus nights paid with the savings in a nice hotel. And My last trip the spread was never that great. I did notice the truck stops all showed Cash and Credit on diesel prices.
I do see on Gas Buddy the Shell we use when in So Indiana is selling RUG at $3.43 and diesel at $3.73. That gives plenty of room. I would start to question my diesel purchase if the price spread was closer to $1.50 per gallon. Not likely as the truckers would go on strike and bring the country to a screeching halt.
They should do that now...and WOULD if that 4.02 represented the majority of refueling stns available to them..
In town the other day, RUG $1.283/ litre or $4.86 US gal
D2 $ 1.239/litre
So how is the VW T out on the highway compared to the Seq? - tracking, noise, wind noise, cross wind tracking, overall seat comfort, pedal comfort...and can you reach over easily and nudge the misses with an affection elbow-on-elbow rub??
I was on the road a bit today - saw a Shell in Lynnwood WA offering RUG and diesel both for 3.99. I put diesel in my car later at a local Chevron, credit price for RUG was 3.89, diesel 3.99.
Just took a 65 mile round trip to an Indian Casino that has decent Prime Rib dinner for $7.77. I cannot think of anything I like better with the Sequoia. It was not as quiet at 70 MPH. Of course handling and performance are way past the Sequoia. 0-60 6.9 seconds vs 8.5 seconds with the Sequoia. The T-Reg is nearly as wide so no closer to the misses. Seat comfort is about equal. No cross winds yet to compare. Places to put my feet are about the same. Though the Sequoia has that annoying hook for the extra carpet, where the VW has a much better fastening system. Just over all a better engineered vehicle in the same price range. The Sequoia MSRP was $52k back in 2007. We got it for exactly $10k under MSRP. The electronics as you would expect are way ahead of 6 years ago. Listened to Bach and Mozart going up and back. I love driving the vehicle.
The Acorn Casino has a big truck stop. Gas was $4.09 diesel $3.99. I am still on my first tank of diesel. 460 miles and just below half a tank. Computer holding at 25.6 MPG for this tank.