Looking at Fuelly.com they have 15 owners posting for the Cruze diesel. I think it is safe to say an overall average of 42 MPG is the norm. As usual the EPA is worthless for diesel vehicles. I would say most people that buy a diesel have a good idea they will get way more than EPA rating on the window sticker.
I am thinking that once this logic starts to catch on AND a lot of reasonable folks get to be ok with not having close to super car ZERO to 60 times of 4 seconds, TDI's will catch on. Even "MotorWeek" is still caught in the ZERO to 60 times tyranny. From a current 5% TDI, I am thinking up to 12% of the passenger vehicle population.
The next logical frontier will be diesels really taking hold in the SUV/PU/large car market which is already the majority of US passenger vehicle fleet ANYWAY (easily 75%). Dodge is really throwing down the gauntlet with its 1500 series PU trucks 3.0 L TDI. They just need a few more diesel options, as not every PU truck is applied to the mink and manure set. (stump pulling, tow 15,000+ #'s) (this is purely my .02cents from the peanut gallery.) As most "light" truck owners know, the big three have always done semi customized truck factory orders anyway.
I have read in passing and in multiple articles, that most PU trucks give the big three (Japanese trucks also) upwards of $10,000 PROFIT.
I think Chrysler is the key. IF they pull off a success with the Grand Cherokee diesel and the Ram 1500, the others will get with the action. VW, MB and BMW will continue as niche with VW increasing their lead. I still boggles my mind that VW discounted our Touareg TDI so far below invoice. The dealer in Utah with what we wanted would not consider that price. Don't get me wrong I am happy to be the winner on the deal. BMW is loaded with diesel inventory and does not seem in a dealing mood. Mercedes seem to keep just enough diesel inventory to keep the sales moving. The Chevy Cruze is the only thing GM builds worth looking at.
I think most folks who use PU trucks know diesels get better mileage, not to even mention they do better with weight than a gasser. Those that use it in trades or businesses would LOVE to cut per mile driven costs.
..."I still boggles my mind that VW discounted our Touareg TDI so far below invoice. "...
Not only fantastic price/performance, but seems to exceed a lot of (my) real world expectations. When one considers ZERO down and ZERO %... WOW !
A bit further than my crystal ball can see, but I am getting the feeling the 2011,2012, and 2013 MY's, VW Touareg TDI's will also be good USED CUV's. So far I have been lucky, as that is what has turned out for the 2003/2009 Jetta TDI's.
I stopped by my local dealer today, and noticed they have a 13 E Bluetec still sitting around. Not hugely loaded, 58K MSRP. I bet you could easily get it for 48K.
They blow out leftovers, especially a niche product like a diesel. 20% off MSRP should be possible, maybe even easy. They don't want it hanging around when the E250 arrives (unless the market rejects it and the E350 becomes some kind of classic).
I am thinking the MB E350 Blue Tech certainly has the potential to be well sought after some years hence (like those earlier MB diesels) . "Cultish" if one will.The other one is the BMW 335 D.
On a personal note I am just happy the VW 03 Jetta TDI is considered a good example of a great used diesel, albeit 1 decade old (and as a side bar 185,000 miles )
It might make me buy out my lease, or maybe seek the exact E350 I want (I still prefer a quartz blue on almond car - but it has to be loaded like mine). But cash flow and E250/C250 performance will make up my mind.
Speaking of that Here's a nice W211 diesel at a local highline lot - this is a loaded car too, which is rare for diesels. Their prices are notoriously optimistic, I think around 24K is where this should be. I kind of like it, just boring colors.
While the VW 2.0 L TDI and even more exciting MB 2.1 L (369 # ft) are proving to be real durable and reliable work horses, there are a whole lot of things about the 3.0 L engine (VW, MB, BMW) that just grows on me. VW in the future is coming out with a 280 # ft 2.0 L TDI. So to me, MORE CHOICE its all good.
Depicting diesels of the era the article speaks of is really "revisionist history."
The facts of the matter were that RUG/PUG products were @ best, just as bad and in most cases WORSE than diesels (as BAD as diesels were). Yet the surviving sentiments are of so called "dirty" diesels.
Most folks do not even remember the so called "difficult conversion" from regular/premium LEADED gasoline to RUG/PUG (regular/premium Unleaded gasoline,. The nexus was the fact RLG/PLG caused the overwhelming percentage and volume of the passenger car pollution, that precipitated the change TO UNLEADED. Indeed it needs to be said that RUG/PUG STILL causes the overwhelming percentage and volume of the passenger vehicle pollution.
While to me a mistake, the legislative and regulatory agencies (late 1970's, or 38 years ago) did not mandate a D2 switch (ALSO, to current 15 ppm sulfur levels) because D2 passenger vehicles were considered an EXTREMELY extremely small part of the over all passenger vehicle pollution issue. At the risk of repeating myself , it is STILL true!!!
Indeed the disingenuous attitude continues to this day as RUG/PUG is STILL far dirtier (30 to 90 ppm sulfur) than ULSD (15 ppm sulfur, nominally delivered @ 7 to 10 ppm sulfur). YET they are considered FAR cleaner !!!! ????
The math shows RUG/PUG (standard to D2 standard) 2 times dirtier. Nominally delivered, RUG/PUG is up to 13 TIMES dirtier.
If one compares it to biodiesel, one has to use a fake number of 1 ppm; as bio diesel is essentially ZERO ppm sulfur. So against biodiesel, RUG/PUG is 30 to 90 TIMES dirtier !!!!!!! YET, the regulatory agencies will not let oems spec a 100% biodiesel passenger diesel vehicle !!!! So again, disingenuously anyone wanting to use 100% biodiesel are practically enjoined from 100% biodiesel use.
Might be revisionist, but when I see a smoky truck these days, invariably it's a diesel. Don't see many smoky cars any more.
Smog in valleys that I've lived in (Chattanooga, Anchorage - aka Los Anchorage and Boise) are lots cleaner than in the past (but I didn't live in Boise before they did emissions checks). So the gassers are doing something right too.
I saw two of what you mentioned on the way up during this so called "CA Rim Fire" ! They happened to be both smoking PV GASSERS, one of each: car, truck.
As a sidebar: Given the nature and scope of one of CA state's LARGEST fires, it is almost microscopic.
Might be a case of revisionist feelings also. Municipalities continue to say 5% of passenger vehicle gassers cause a majority of excess pollution and continue to to operate "pollution" lines to report them.
Oh, just to be clear, I'm talking about passenger pickups when I say smoking trucks. It's trivial to find a smoking semi - just follow one up a hill and wait for the downshift. Sure would be nice if they'd clean those rigs up.
funny u mention the Tiguan 18 mpg with premium unleaded, as I'm actually considering ordering a base model 2014 Tig S 6-speed. VW is finally going to have a thing like ONstar. VW-star - with some nifty features, like texting the owner if the car goes outside a certain radius. (I can't seem to cancel my GM Onstar $20/month package - it's just too useful/nifty/handy/convenient/safe.)
I'm sure I'd prefer a base model benz GLK diesel at the same price but it sure isn't the same price... the Tig 6-speed is only $22000 MSRP... The $15000 difference buys a lot of fuel... Maybe not as much as one would save driving a Benz GLK diesel 100k miles...
Tig with manual transmission is rare. I'd have to order it or arrange a dealer-trade - closest one is 350 miles, another is 800 miles away. It could happen. No need for AWD. FWD with snow tires does just fine for getting me to the skiing...
If the initial cost wasn't so much and the fact that it's better to have a manual I would have a diesel by now. It just makes sense for long-term quality.
Saw a "good price" for ULSD and wanted to fuel BEFORE the national holiday. The bad news is I didn't wait for 24 to 26 gals. Due to grocery store discount got - $1.00 per gal off (12.50 saved) that good price, resort town no less !? MPG penciled out to 31, a R/T.
Seems the Yosemite "Rim Fire" is sending its smoke app 250 miles to South Lake Tahoe, CA, Carson City, and Reno NV. It might drive away tourists for the Labor Day Weekend. Local news, Reno, NV has had 15 quakes in the last 7 days, 4.2 being the worst.
The fires sound bad. I'd only heard about the four pointer quake in Reno. Are they doing some diesel fracking there or something?
I got some grocery gas for a dime off a gallon yesterday. Not sure if it was worth it - jam packed lot and people jockeying for a pump. Each pump had a separate diesel nozzle and naturally I didn't think to check price (RUG was $3.33).
Y'all stay safe cruising around out there this holiday weekend. And Happy Labour Day to Gimmee. :-)
..."Are they doing some diesel fracking there or something? "... LOL
Actually some would say the "natural" landscape dynamics have been drastically altered by the massive weight of displaced waters for many decades to the west, and the northern sierra mountain (snow run offs) displacements to the south ( CA agriculture and LA LA LAND)
And while I realize reliability ratings aren't precise, the Prius for all years is in the 4.5-5.0 star rating as compared to the VW Sportswagaon's 2.0 - 2.5 ratings. And yes, this accounts for diesels, gas, manual and automatic transmissions, but longterm I think I'd spend more on repairs/maintenance with a Sportswagon as compared to a Prius. Give me Honda or Toyota reliability in a diesel and I'd be lining up for it.
Per like miles, I have actually spent more $'s in Honda and Toyota "reliability and durability" (scheduled and unscheduled) , than I have for VW "unreliability and undurability". While I respect the fact that you are "swagging" (with YOUR monies, choice of Toyota) ; I am speaking from ownership (aka my monies) of literally all three (VW, Honda, Toyota). (Chevrolet also, but that is another side bar) I actually would have spent more for Toyota and more sparsely Honda, but then at times Toyota did step up and either gave a discount or settled some class action suit to pay for the "repair @ hand".
So to me, I would be a tad like the motto "Show Me", when it comes to Toyota and Honda diesels, which are not on the US market YET. To be more specific, I would not be a first adopter of either and /or both. To wit, Toyota and Honda diesels struggle in European diesel markets. One would swag with its Japanese inherent cost advantages, they would be doing FAR better. Another is European oems have been in the hybrid space for a while.
While I have always had the Prius in consideration (top 5, for 3 commute cars). They have not made (my) the proverbial cut.
I have just read an article (WSJ financial slant not consumer oriented) where the head of Toyota's hybrid division felt that while Toyota hybrids are (now) 16% of Toyota sales, they should be FAR more. The CEO of Toyota (Mr ToyoDA) has made the decision for Prius to be styled more "Tesla like" both in style and power. Defacto, that is an indication of failure @ the highest levels: even though it sounds like they are being "progressive" going forward.
I probably should put this in as boiler plate as some would take my post as Honda/Toyota HATER drivel. I have been happy with the Toyota and Honda products, I truly got what I paid for, (albeit probably too much) Both brands have extremely high resale values.
There is another factor to consider in purchasing a vehicle. I know for myself it was not much thought of until now. With my new Touareg TDI I find myself making up reasons to go someplace that I would not have considered with the other vehicles we owned. It was always better get this done. I have owned a lot of new vehicles and last time a vehicle gave me this desire to jump in and just drive was with my new 1964 Toyota Landcruiser. Though that desire was short lived with all the problems that vehicle had. Took me 43 years to forgive Toyota and buy another. The Sequoia was a nice riding comfortable highway cruiser. But not what I would call sports car fun to drive. I think VW has put as much fun into the Touareg as you can get without buying a Porsche. The only other ones close are the BMW X5 and Cayenne. The offerings from Lexus and Acura are tuna boat rides by comparison.
My guess is most people just want a vehicle that gets them from point A to B reliably and economically. I can tell you there is more to life than that. Took me nearly 50 years to get that feeling back. Ruking, yours was no small part, Thanks.
Anecdotal evidence will certainly show that many VW's are bulletproof, but my anecdotal evidence is my mothers 2011 TDI just needed $900 of work on the turbo.
You gotta go by the numbers on reliability - individual results will vary wildly. The numbers do show Toyota to be better than VW. VW is not terrible (most of them are about average), but Toyota is better.
Kinda like saying I don't need insurance because I have never had an accident - anecdotal observations don't prevent some idiot from running into you. Having a reliable car from a less reliable brand does not change your odds for future purchases.
Well, I have two TDIs, one sedan, one sportwagon. The sedan is an 09, with 120K plus miles, the Wagon is a 2010 with about 36K miles. I've not had a lick of problems with either of them. I've been averaging over 40MPG with the sedan, and close to 45 with the wagon (standard). They do require a little more maintenance than a Toyota, but IMHO the driving experience is worth the extra hassle. The Prius is a relative dog from a performance standpoint.
Indeed it is absolutely true that Honda AND Toyota will probably not have turbo issues ! (aka no current models employ TURBO's. You should make some effort to compare apples to apples.)
Again why is anecdotal Toyota and Honda evidence praised while anecdotal VW experience vilified? The only one making the false claim of "bullet proof" is .... YOU. I do have both ! Does your mom have any Honda/Toyota products?
Your insurance analogy is non applicable and off topic ! Unless you are trying to say that there are reasons why my Toyota and Honda insurance costs are higher than my VW insurance costs? Funny part, the Honda's and Toyota's are older and theoretically cheaper to insure.
Reliability is reliability does not matter what part makes your car not run. I can't imagine anybody would say a broken turbo is OK because other cars don't have one.
I gave no anecdotal honda or toyota data. Reread and see.
My sister had an unreliable '00 New Beetle (and an even worse dealer).
Around '06 her dealer got a lot better and so did her car. She might even buy another one at this point.
I dunno - the Prius surprised a lot of people by being "complicated" yet reliable, but I don't think they are that much more reliable than a VW on a percentage basis. But VW still has a bit of a sour reputation.
Indeed !! All one needs to do is to go back to the (my) post about revisionist history between RLG/PLG and its switch to RUG/PUG and the "dirty diesel" spin off (how the mechanisms work) . The real issue then and in most part NOW continues to today are both R/P gasolines cause the majority of the pollution issues ; while ULSD continues as the "whipping boy." aka burning MORE pollutes less !!??? WHILE blaming ULSD products which are 5% and less of the issue !!!
Let me put it this way, STATISTICALLY current diesels are not the enemy despite a lot of folks efforts to make diesels the "ENEMY". They are part of the so called forward looking solution. There are a lot of reasons why 75 mpg diesels are enjoined from being let into the US markets, aka diesels having even better numbers than the highly touted Prius.
As another sidebar and probably off topic VW Jetta has a hot little gasser with hybrid that is probably even more fun to drive than the Prius'es. Perhaps that was the real spark for Mr. ToyoDA to do a radical redesign of the Prius going forward.
Co-worker had an 02 Beetle (gas) with a turbo that failed within a year, and an iffy dealer too. Traded it for a Jetta TDi that was imperfect but better, and then moved on to Subaru.
It is only recently that the EPA numbers are being posted. It is way easier to gauge off of the European systems. Again perhaps that is part of the embarrassment as the actual numbers do not back up the BOGUS sentiments.
That's what my sister moved on to - a Forester. For the last few years, she's been wanting a MINI. I guess some of the fun brands don't enjoy the best reliability reputation, but we're getting back to that "life is short" equation.
In her case, at least the VW dealer was relatively close, not a couple of hours away, like the MINI one is going to be. But she'll keep the Subaru for a backup so that'll work okay.
Probably to the bane to the existence of BMW, Mini still proudly maintains its' unreliable and non durable reputation !! Or perhaps BMW just burnishes it because it does sell well and makes high resale numbers. So in that sense, win, win, win, in lose, lose, lose, scenarios?
On a personal (anecdotal) level, a relative asked me if he should get a Mini and I emphatically said H--- NO ! Of course, he proceeds to buy it (above MSRP no less) and in a couple of years, sold it in PURE desperation for a Mazda 3. No word on the Mazda 3, but I am sure it is probably head and shoulders better and still has high to higher resale values.
No real joy on Subaru (probably one of the best made cars in the US of Japanese owners) Had three sets of friends considering (2013/2014) Subaru's, tell me of the so called "rubber band" CVT. Edmunds.com even makes a note of it in the CON: section. Evidently that causes a lot of folks a lot of gas. (pun intended) But hey, it is hard to argue with their success, as they are doing well !!! (for a tiny car company)
Yes ! To me that is a head scratcher also. I watch it in the context of having now two relatives owning them. I do have to say I am a complete sucker for the so called "liquid silver" metallic.
The postings that Gagrice found on skyactiv TDI's are not very encouraging, however.
Ford was on TV this morning showing off what they say will take over the automotive industry in the coming years. It was an electric/hydrogen hybrid. I was busy and did not pay a lot of attention so I don't have any details.
Comments
http://www.fuelly.com/car/chevrolet/cruze/2014/diesel%20l4
The next logical frontier will be diesels really taking hold in the SUV/PU/large car market which is already the majority of US passenger vehicle fleet ANYWAY (easily 75%). Dodge is really throwing down the gauntlet with its 1500 series PU trucks 3.0 L TDI. They just need a few more diesel options, as not every PU truck is applied to the mink and manure set. (stump pulling, tow 15,000+ #'s)
I have read in passing and in multiple articles, that most PU trucks give the big three (Japanese trucks also) upwards of $10,000 PROFIT.
..."I still boggles my mind that VW discounted our Touareg TDI so far below invoice. "...
Not only fantastic price/performance, but seems to exceed a lot of (my) real world expectations. When one considers ZERO down and ZERO %... WOW !
A bit further than my crystal ball can see, but I am getting the feeling the 2011,2012, and 2013 MY's, VW Touareg TDI's will also be good USED CUV's. So far I have been lucky, as that is what has turned out for the 2003/2009 Jetta TDI's.
On a personal note I am just happy the VW 03 Jetta TDI is considered a good example of a great used diesel, albeit 1 decade old (and as a side bar 185,000 miles
Speaking of that Here's a nice W211 diesel at a local highline lot - this is a loaded car too, which is rare for diesels. Their prices are notoriously optimistic, I think around 24K is where this should be. I kind of like it, just boring colors.
•Audi: A6, A7 and A8L sedans, Q5 and Q7 SUVs.
•BMW: 3-series sedan and wagon, 5-series sedan, X5 SUV.
•Chevrolet: Cruze compact sedan.
•Jeep: Grand Cherokee SUV.
•Mazda: Mazda6 midsize sedan.
•Mercedes-Benz: GLK, ML and GL SUVs, E-class sedan.
•Porsche: Cayenne SUV.
•Ram: 1500 full-size standard pickup.
•Volkswagen: Beetle, Golf, Jetta, Passat sedans, convertible and wagon, Touareg SUV."
Why diesels are gaining momentum in diesel-hostile U.S. (wbir.com)
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/08/diesel-power-imminent-for-2015-chevy-colorad- o-gmc-canyon/
The facts of the matter were that RUG/PUG products were @ best, just as bad and in most cases WORSE than diesels (as BAD as diesels were). Yet the surviving sentiments are of so called "dirty" diesels.
Most folks do not even remember the so called "difficult conversion" from regular/premium LEADED gasoline to RUG/PUG (regular/premium Unleaded gasoline,. The nexus was the fact RLG/PLG caused the overwhelming percentage and volume of the passenger car pollution, that precipitated the change TO UNLEADED. Indeed it needs to be said that RUG/PUG STILL causes the overwhelming percentage and volume of the passenger vehicle pollution.
While to me a mistake, the legislative and regulatory agencies (late 1970's, or 38 years ago) did not mandate a D2 switch (ALSO, to current 15 ppm sulfur levels) because D2 passenger vehicles were considered an EXTREMELY extremely small part of the over all passenger vehicle pollution issue. At the risk of repeating myself , it is STILL true!!!
Indeed the disingenuous attitude continues to this day as RUG/PUG is STILL far dirtier (30 to 90 ppm sulfur) than ULSD (15 ppm sulfur, nominally delivered @ 7 to 10 ppm sulfur). YET they are considered FAR cleaner !!!! ????
The math shows RUG/PUG (standard to D2 standard) 2 times dirtier. Nominally delivered, RUG/PUG is up to 13 TIMES dirtier.
If one compares it to biodiesel, one has to use a fake number of 1 ppm; as bio diesel is essentially ZERO ppm sulfur. So against biodiesel, RUG/PUG is 30 to 90 TIMES dirtier !!!!!!! YET, the regulatory agencies will not let oems spec a 100% biodiesel passenger diesel vehicle !!!! So again, disingenuously anyone wanting to use 100% biodiesel are practically enjoined from 100% biodiesel use.
Smog in valleys that I've lived in (Chattanooga, Anchorage - aka Los Anchorage and Boise) are lots cleaner than in the past (but I didn't live in Boise before they did emissions checks). So the gassers are doing something right too.
As a sidebar: Given the nature and scope of one of CA state's LARGEST fires, it is almost microscopic.
Might be a case of revisionist feelings also. Municipalities continue to say 5% of passenger vehicle gassers cause a majority of excess pollution and continue to to operate "pollution" lines to report them.
VW is finally going to have a thing like ONstar. VW-star - with some nifty features, like texting the owner if the car goes outside a certain radius. (I can't seem to cancel my GM Onstar $20/month package - it's just too useful/nifty/handy/convenient/safe.)
I'm sure I'd prefer a base model benz GLK diesel at the same price but it sure isn't the same price... the Tig 6-speed is only $22000 MSRP... The $15000 difference buys a lot of fuel... Maybe not as much as one would save driving a Benz GLK diesel 100k miles...
meanwhile the diesel cruze is only doing 42 mpg for people? pffffft...
that's a minimal % mpg incentive to buy the diesel model over the gas.
put a manual-transmission on that diesel cruze and the highway mpg would probably be 55, and then i'd probably buy one in a jiffy...
But we knew that !!
Detroitnews.com
Seems the Yosemite "Rim Fire" is sending its smoke app 250 miles to South Lake Tahoe, CA, Carson City, and Reno NV. It might drive away tourists for the Labor Day Weekend. Local news, Reno, NV has had 15 quakes in the last 7 days, 4.2 being the worst.
I got some grocery gas for a dime off a gallon yesterday. Not sure if it was worth it - jam packed lot and people jockeying for a pump. Each pump had a separate diesel nozzle and naturally I didn't think to check price (RUG was $3.33).
Y'all stay safe cruising around out there this holiday weekend. And Happy Labour Day to Gimmee. :-)
Actually some would say the "natural" landscape dynamics have been drastically altered by the massive weight of displaced waters for many decades to the west, and the northern sierra mountain (snow run offs) displacements to the south ( CA agriculture and LA LA LAND)
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Volkswagen_Jetta-SportWagen/201- 0/Reliability/
As compared to a Prius:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Toyota_Prius/2012/Reliability/
And while I realize reliability ratings aren't precise, the Prius for all years is in the 4.5-5.0 star rating as compared to the VW Sportswagaon's 2.0 - 2.5 ratings. And yes, this accounts for diesels, gas, manual and automatic transmissions, but longterm I think I'd spend more on repairs/maintenance with a Sportswagon as compared to a Prius. Give me Honda or Toyota reliability in a diesel and I'd be lining up for it.
So to me, I would be a tad like the motto "Show Me", when it comes to Toyota and Honda diesels, which are not on the US market YET. To be more specific, I would not be a first adopter of either and /or both. To wit, Toyota and Honda diesels struggle in European diesel markets. One would swag with its Japanese inherent cost advantages, they would be doing FAR better. Another is European oems have been in the hybrid space for a while.
While I have always had the Prius in consideration (top 5, for 3 commute cars). They have not made (my) the proverbial cut.
I have just read an article (WSJ financial slant not consumer oriented) where the head of Toyota's hybrid division felt that while Toyota hybrids are (now) 16% of Toyota sales, they should be FAR more. The CEO of Toyota (Mr ToyoDA) has made the decision for Prius to be styled more "Tesla like" both in style and power. Defacto, that is an indication of failure @ the highest levels: even though it sounds like they are being "progressive" going forward.
I probably should put this in as boiler plate as some would take my post as Honda/Toyota HATER drivel. I have been happy with the Toyota and Honda products, I truly got what I paid for, (albeit probably too much) Both brands have extremely high resale values.
My guess is most people just want a vehicle that gets them from point A to B reliably and economically. I can tell you there is more to life than that. Took me nearly 50 years to get that feeling back. Ruking, yours was no small part, Thanks.
(as weird as that might/probably sounds to the greater audience (age wise) coming from an "older person" )
And yes, happy to be part of the equation !
You gotta go by the numbers on reliability - individual results will vary wildly. The numbers do show Toyota to be better than VW. VW is not terrible (most of them are about average), but Toyota is better.
Kinda like saying I don't need insurance because I have never had an accident - anecdotal observations don't prevent some idiot from running into you. Having a reliable car from a less reliable brand does not change your odds for future purchases.
Well, I have two TDIs, one sedan, one sportwagon. The sedan is an 09, with 120K plus miles, the Wagon is a 2010 with about 36K miles. I've not had a lick of problems with either of them. I've been averaging over 40MPG with the sedan, and close to 45 with the wagon (standard). They do require a little more maintenance than a Toyota, but IMHO the driving experience is worth the extra hassle. The Prius is a relative dog from a performance standpoint.
Again why is anecdotal Toyota and Honda evidence praised while anecdotal VW experience vilified? The only one making the false claim of "bullet proof" is .... YOU. I do have both ! Does your mom have any Honda/Toyota products?
Your insurance analogy is non applicable and off topic ! Unless you are trying to say that there are reasons why my Toyota and Honda insurance costs are higher than my VW insurance costs? Funny part, the Honda's and Toyota's are older and theoretically cheaper to insure.
I gave no anecdotal honda or toyota data. Reread and see.
Around '06 her dealer got a lot better and so did her car. She might even buy another one at this point.
I dunno - the Prius surprised a lot of people by being "complicated" yet reliable, but I don't think they are that much more reliable than a VW on a percentage basis. But VW still has a bit of a sour reputation.
I trust you aren't saying a Prius is dirtier than a diesel though.
As another sidebar and probably off topic VW Jetta has a hot little gasser with hybrid that is probably even more fun to drive than the Prius'es. Perhaps that was the real spark for Mr. ToyoDA to do a radical redesign of the Prius going forward.
That's what my sister moved on to - a Forester. For the last few years, she's been wanting a MINI. I guess some of the fun brands don't enjoy the best reliability reputation, but we're getting back to that "life is short" equation.
In her case, at least the VW dealer was relatively close, not a couple of hours away, like the MINI one is going to be. But she'll keep the Subaru for a backup so that'll work okay.
On a personal (anecdotal) level, a relative asked me if he should get a Mini and I emphatically said H--- NO ! Of course, he proceeds to buy it (above MSRP no less) and in a couple of years, sold it in PURE desperation for a Mazda 3. No word on the Mazda 3, but I am sure it is probably head and shoulders better and still has high to higher resale values.
The postings that Gagrice found on skyactiv TDI's are not very encouraging, however.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460