What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

stever

I would have been cussing at my computer, although I usually have the sound muted. That's one appeal to a hybrid or EV - they are quiet. Some of the reviewers comments about the new diesel sedans focus on how quiet they are once you get in and shut the door. That means the rest of us have to listen to them rattle.

The nicest thing about being on the road the last month is not having to listen to my motorhead neighbor engage in his favorite hobby - mowing his yard every day. He's worse than the other neighbor with the typical Harley that won't move until you've warmed it up for 10 minutes.

That's one thing I don't miss about my Boise house - one neighbor, and not a very close one at that, what with everyone having acre lots or bigger, had one of those loud rattling diesel trucks and you could hear him coming and going all the time.

gagrice

I always wanted to be rich, like Reggie Jackson or Jay Leno, and have a 40 car garage filled with such sights and sounds. Sigh....

One can dream. I always liked that sound as long as it was not on my street at 1AM in the morning. I had several cars in my younger days that had that rumble sound. Mostly broken exhaust pipes.

dudleyr

Consumer reports just finished testing the Cruze diesel. Not so great unfortunately. they got 22 mpg city and 49 highway. Highway is 2 mpg less than the Passat diesel despite EPA being 5 mpg better. Overall mpg was 33 compared to 32 for the larger Mazda6 and Altima and 37 for the diesel Passat. For comparison the Cruze eco (automatic) is 27 mpg overall so the diesel does gain 6 mpg.

0-60 was 9.7 seconds or about 2 seconds slower than automatic Accord/Altima/Mazda6.

I was hoping for much better mpg. Not only does the Cruze not save money over larger midsized sedans it is much slower and has an engine that has yet to be proven in the U.S.

Looks like VW stays at the top of the (non-hybrid) efficiency heap for now. Maybe BMW will give them a challenge.

crkyolfrt

Some of the reviewers comments about the new diesel sedans focus on how quiet they are once you get in and shut the door. That means the rest of us have to listen to them rattle.

Oh, come on...sheesh..
I am 1000 times more annoyed with mindless car alarms chirping and worse..

Some people feel the need to draw attention to themselves...must have never been picked up and loved as child..

Not counting a 15 year old Cummins in a Dodge, they just really are not that loud at all. Geez, it's not like they are sitting around with the hoods open and a megaphone propped up on the top of the rad..

AAMOF, With the hood OPEN and standing right there, I can't believe how quiet the following diesel vehicles were.
- 2007 Jeep GC
- 2011 VW GSW
- 2012 ML350

And a month ago, talking with a guy at a fuel agent had a 4 year old Chev Isuzu V8 (hood closed) and it simply wasn't much noisier than the gas job..
Ford's Powerstroke is noisier and just sounds bad too

These are compression ignition engines! Think about it...they don't even require ignition or spark in order to come to life and do amazing feats in things in the world requiring some form of work, no matter how massive the task. They deliver far beyond what is asked of them and yet ask for next to nothing in return. They are one of the greatest world inventions of all time...right up there with the wheel and the bicycle and CDs. They are what they are and they are here to STAY!

Give 'em a bit of a break I say when they show the odd (relatively non-intrusive) trait differently from their gasoline counterpart.

I'm sorry your wife has the asthma trigger that she has. I must believe that if she did not, you would not always have this undergrd contempt for the diesel that you seem to have, Steve. Not too many days go by without it taking one on the chin from you.

As for compulsive neigbours and their lawnmowers. I'm ok with it if they have not let their muffler rust out, but more importantly as long as they have changed the oil in it once a year so that it isn't puking out plumes of oil smoke into my yard. Or neighbours who are burning 'something' year round...always a firepit going or 45 gal barrel, and often the smell of not just leaves or wood, but weird nasty plastic smells..Or the ones who have small yappy dogs who bark incessantly. Thank goodness I am back in the bush..but I have had such neighbours..

So one of the drawbacks for that peacefulness is costs for a vehicle to go to town for essentials.

Life is full of compromises. A diesel powered vehicle should be very very VERY low on peoples complaint list when there are so many things out there that trumps it in a heart beat.

ok,,,there's my 25¢

crkyolfrt

IMO, that just lowers CR credibility. it probably had something wrong with it which could be behind both the city FE numbers (way too low to be believable in a good working car) altho the hwy number seems totally believable. The engine has GOBS of torque and is more than enough to overcome inappropriate gearing if they have done that for city use, and certainly has the ability to absolutely annihilate any car out there that actually does do only a 9.7 0-60.

I don't believe any of that and neither should you if you think it might fit your needs. I say go and test one yourself. Do your own FE and acceleration tests etc. I have every confidence it will blow your mind.

And I'm not even a GM fan really..

stever

Not too many days go by without it taking one on the chin from you.

Well, they aren't benign devices by any means. And it's been months since I've posted one of those "WHO" type unhealthy particulate studies. I can't wait for the third owners of these rigs to quit using the AdBlue stuff in a few years down the road.

The other peeve is people who don't turn off the chirp mode on their key fob so when they park somewhere, the horn toots.

Oh, to be King for a day. :-)

Interesting blurb from across the pond about how gassers are "fighting back".

The death of diesel cars (managementtoday.co.uk)

crkyolfrt

I thought the AdBlue was a good thing? I thought it was one of the best ways to make these engines meet the NA strict emission regs?

edit- oh..ya I know what you meant now..well the stuff just isn't expensive and if owners did quit using it, there are probably other things that happen that affect driveability. Plus engine warning lights etc..I sorta don't think that will be much of an issue. Sure there might be the very odd idiot may do it till it damages his car altogether..and then the idiot is off the road so..good! haha

I wasn't referring to just those studies per se..I mean there are 'shots'..some fairly undertoned..others at times a little more direct..And of course you have the right, it's just that these digs don't go unnoticed by some, that's all..it's just I'd prefer if someone is going to take a shot, that it is with a bit more merit rather than using old memories type stuff.

Yes, the alarm chirps...that was what I meant..it is so idiotic. All it does is irritate many and even risks a heart shocker for any elderly person fresh out of hospital after bypass surgery..(my Mom years ago...sitting in the car and some [non-permissible content removed] with his chirp chirp with a set of trios in some big pile of so and so..she had the window down it was right there, monstering down her. I think it was a H2 come to think of it with a lift kit.) I almost had to take her right back to the hospital. That was years ago and it has only gotten worse, since.

Ya..to be KFAD..I so concur..

hey have you guys made it home yet? Ya must be getting close by now..how many miles on the Q now? What was this trips avg FE? How much of that do you think was on E10?

stever

Geeze that looney with the H2 - sounds like a sitcom plot in a way.

Yeah, I don't know what will happen when the AdBlue gets skipped. But you know it's going to happen.

We're taking off tomorrow for home and will take a week to get there. Haven't played with the mpg numbers much. The van likes the elevation and the 86 RON stuff; got ~27 on the last tank. We're at 191,500, so I guess we'll be pushing 193k in a week. The ethanol stuff is everywhere down here (maybe not all 10%, since the pumps usually say "up to") so most every tank has had it, except for the "pure gas" tank I got in TN.

houdini1

It wouldn't matter if diesels were whisper quiet at idle, they just don't fit the rhetoric of the global warming cult. Right Steve?

stever

Don't know about that - bunch of carbon burners whether you are in a NG, or a hybrid or gasser or oil burner.

Seems like the health affects would be the bigger concern.

gagrice

Yeah, I don't know what will happen when the AdBlue gets skipped. But you know it's going to happen.

My understanding is the engine shuts down. Unless you find a workaround. Which may cause other issues???? That was an EPA requirement to get certified. Same as running out of fuel. If you buy an Audi, BMW or VW no worries the first 3-4 years as all service is covered. Only MB charges for service.

By the way. The first Touareg TDI we test drove the salesman brought it around for us and left it running. I could not hear it until I put my ear right next to the hood. No clatter like the 2005 Passat TDI.

Does it mean we will get up to 50% diesels before we level off like the UK. I understand we sell a lot of diesel to the UK and they sell US Gas. Very poor exchange for US.

stever

I wonder if you could just dump some diesel in the AdBlue tank and keep running? But yeah, someone will likely post a bypass method on youtube one of these days.

Well, they're out there already - AdBlue emulators. I should do a little net searching before posting.

gagrice

You will like this page. The Mods tell the posters to stop researching anything that would illegally disable the TDI emissions systems.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=345713&page=5

stever

Good for them. No one around here ever hints at removing their cats either....

/sigh

gagrice

I know people with those big 4X4 PU trucks modify their exhaust all the time. You see them with stacks coming up through the bed of the truck. Both gas and diesel rigs. Last vehicle I modified was my Suburban with expensive dual exhaust and a worthless K&N air filter system. It was noisy both from the air filter and the exhaust and my mileage got worse. Fortunately it was licensed to my Prudhoe address so I never had to have it smogged. What a waste of money those mods were. Never again. I keep em stock including the wheels.

ruking1

..."a worthless K&N air filter system. "...

The diesel's exhaust and COLD air intake systems might be another TMI DIESEL advantage.

Much is made about the modification to the gasser's exhaust and intake systems for great hp/torque.

For diesels, they are ALREADY designed with (WAY GREATER than needed FLOW) COLD AIR systems (albeit, normally BUTT ugly) . Exhaust systems make little to no extra hp/torque (aka LQQKS, NOISE ONLY). OEM air filters are absolutely the best; as they actually DESIGNED TO keep out lower/smaller particles than most aftermarket brands and cotton/mineral oil flow systems.

So for example OEM VW diesel AIR filter systems are so "over engineered" one can easily run 2x the recommended intervals. Another TMI (counter intuitive) is a "dirtier cold air filter" actually better filters the air through the intake than so called brand new or "CLEAN" filters.

crkyolfrt

So for example OEM VW diesel AIR filter systems are so "over engineered" one can easily run 2x the recommended intervals.

I notice your inclination is to extend the OEM's service intervals, by two to even three times.

Now sometimes a personalized determination of requirements can supersede the OEM's because they are designed to apply an across the board coverage of all potential owner scenarios, and the only real extra caveat is the Severe Service schedule. As it is, my guess is 70% of the nation's real world use probably fall easily into the SS schedule yet they wouldn't believe it if you told them so after analyzing their actual driving routine.

And of course you have probably done an oil analysis more than once? to ensure that counts are as they should be since you are expanding on their recommendations..

The air filter service extension is a little more of a grey area, IMO. Maybe you travel only the cleanest of roads at all times, but I think they use salt on those mtns you do? That's dirty dust that..and fine..

Anyway, I don't think it is the best of advice to (inadvertantly maybe?) continuously mention how often you push the envelope with your maintenance schedules. Now..that said...I know you don't specifically 'tell' someone that this is what they should do to save.. costs?.. and environment? presumedly. But I do think that many might interpret these schedule extensions incorrectly because the masses are not going to evaluate as logically as you probably do, when determining the maintenance requirements of your vehicles given the conditions under which 'you' operate them.

ruking1

Actually you should have posted your response first, and my post would have been the response ! ?

Yes, yes, yes!

Yes, yes, maybe to NO ! So my perception of my own driving profile is "mild." I am aware that other's may perceive my profile as "aggressive" including my BIL (owner of the Acura MDX). We have each ridden in the others' vehicle, as passenger and have taken multiple "similar trips" exact point A to point B.

Caterpillar has made the air filter service "interval" more measurable: both in diesel hours AND air flow meter. The issue here is most (RUG/PUG) folks don't even know about them, yet alone an even EXTREMELY even smaller outlier group of diesel geeks (nothing pejorative meant here) who even USE them !!!

Yes ! The issues with the intervals, oil and oil analysis is VERY TMI ! YES !

You might be correct ! However it is more of a statement on the extremely CONSERVATIVE "liberal" or extreme "robustness" of currently recommended diesel consumable products, specifically: (diesel) oil, oil and air filters.

All I am trying to do (as an "informed" consumer) is to stay in each product's useful life and "sweet" spot.

crkyolfrt

Yes, I think that not too much emphasis can be put on..naturally really good oils, but also the quality of the filters. I think that there are a few things that need to be kept an eye on or at least addressed when doing these extended intervals..but first let me say that the best 'long use interval' scene is higher than average miles over a shorter period of time. i.e. 30000 miles (I think is when you change your JSW? in one year, is a lot lot LOT! better than it taking 2 to 3 years and then changing the oil at the same 30000 miles. Personally I am not comfortable with those numbers. And even if you do put those high miles on in a relatively shorter period of time, IMO, there should still be a filter swap out, mid way. It increases the chances that much better that it won't be running with a bypass valve a bit open on cold starts in the cooler temps.

Another consideration, is 'the average owner' while they should, does NOT check their oil level often enough. This would tell them if it is going up or down. At least if they are on a regime of not doing extended intervals, the chances that high levels or low, would be caught by default.

But also, and I think this last consideration is often completely not considered at all and maybe out of nothing more than ignorance. But oil that gets old 'time-wise' but not just time-wise as above avg miles also age oil...more so as the engine itself ages and wears, holds more acids and other nasties (additives that help clean and keep seals pliable etc) and these do prematurely wear an engine seal. They can become too 'spongy' from oil and acid exposure, but also sometimes they can dry too and crack. Both can cause a leaking seal. And as I'm sure you know, some leaks can do a lot of harm before they are di$covered. Some cost a LOT more than others depending on their location....would you like to do a valve cover seal, or a rear crank seal, sorta thing?

So to me, oil and filters, even the good quality ones, just aren't that cost prohibitive yet.. when you consider the saved dollars that could otherwise be the result of extending the intervals too long. Can end up being a false economic decision...I guess that's the bottom line. And hey, who can argue that an internally and externally clean engine isn't desirable for longer life, and better overall performance during its life?

ruking1

I think you are really getting into the spirit of things ! On the one hand, some to most of this discussion is/ can BE TMI. Even I know and readily admit that !!! However, if one can keep eyes unglazed, it really documents (probably in WAY too much detail) the almost extreme advantages of diesels. !!!!!!!

An upshot for me is I would NEVER want to be penny wise POUND foolish !!!! !!!! Of course, SOME would come to that conclusion ! However, nothing could be farther from the truth. It makes absolutely no sense to use ANY consumable/s beyond its useful design/ed life.

So for example, many (diesel) users have issues with even what the oem's mileage recommendation for a (diesel's) oil and filter change ! ( i.e., VW @ 10,000 miles)

To further TMI the discussion, some oems (i.e., VW specification 5w30, oil 504 (GASSER SPEC/ 507.00 TDI SPEC) cover both gassers (RUG/PUG) AND TDI's. So really the ROBUSTNESS is built in and in the very worst case it is up to the user to chose the intervals: going from oil change after every tank full of fuel: to the designed life.

If one has a belt and suspenders view, one can do UOA's at specific intervals say 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000, 25,000, 30,000 miles to beyond. Of course, the economics do not mirror the (exampled/ recommended ) testing procedures. A real issue is most folks who research this really do not know how to read the results, let alone apply them.

A lot of discussions really sound like wine tasting (which is entertaining in and of itself) Ah fruity with a hint of Rocky Mountain intake notes. But to be more serious, the OEMS do not post real and or objective oil analysis DATA numbers AND for obvious and not so obvious reasons. !!!!! ??????

gagrice

I am kind of assuming the included service will include all filters. Fuel, oil and air filters. Plus topping the VW DEF.

ruking1

Yes it does ! So for example, ( in addition) the 3rd included service (applies to your VW T TDI, they have already told me) includes a brake fluid flush.

gagrice

I bought the additional year and 12k miles with a front and rear brake job. That includes service as well. At this point I am thinking I may want the latest and greatest in 3 years. Not sure what could be added that I would want.

ruking1

Can't say I blame you there ! It is really nice to have "included" services (past the 3 years/36,000 miles warranty).

My best guess right now (using the TLC's (4800#'s vs 4975#'s and actual VW dealer brake pad and rotor measurements) is @ 70,000 miles to 80,000 miles for the front brake pads and quite possibly rotors (they normally require rotors and pads). Worse case is rear pads and rotors also.

A few other Touareg TDI'ers report that is over kill for the rear pads and rotors, so will have to anecdotally inspect and proceed accordingly.

gagrice

One of the deciding factors was our Sequoia. When we had the 30k mile service done back in Indiana at the Toyota dealer, he claimed we were getting very close to needing new brake pads. That was at 33k miles. Hopefully I can convince VW to do that service, needed or not, before the 4 years is up. I also think offering that free service is smart of VW. They keep close tabs on potential problem areas. They can fix a problem before it leaves the motorist stranded.

ruking1

Again this might be TMI, but really it does need to be said the VW T TDI is really a CUV designed (US market versions not DUMBED down, handling wise) to be run on the autobahn, the brakes and rotors being a very important part. So German (autobahn) standards require change of pads AND rotors.

TLC brake pads, sans any defects will work 2 brake pad sets to one rotor ( US markets my case 120,000 miles on a set of rotors) I have used any number of brands: OEM, TRD, PBR, Ferrodo,

Yes I think this program is really part and parcel of the constant improvement VW long ago committed itself to. IF you have a almost defect free experience and whatever "defects" are seamless to you, I think it increases the chances of being a longer term happy customer. A happy customer hopefully will be inclined to buy... AGAIN.

ruking1

I am not sure I understand this, but I will take the posting : 35 mpg (35.486) The only thing I did was mostly "FOLLOW" and tried to stay OFF the brakes especially on the down grades.

What is normally a 210 miles trip (each way range of 2.75 to 3.25 hours, ZERO to 7382 ft, 6200 ft) became a 2 way COMMMUTE (Labor Day National holiday (4.5 hours) !

In addition, LOADS of high altitude (6200 to 7,300 and drop down to 4,800 ft high desert and return to 6,200 ft) stop and go driving and with the A/C on most of the time. (Yosemite Rim Fire haze days, 250 miles away, hazed air coming and goings)

I much prefer the saving of +1.75 hours each way to the 35 mpg + !!

crkyolfrt

Sounds like the big ol' Reg likes it under 50.. so much torque it still probably spent a lot of time in 8th..

Gosh it is starting to sound as capable (given its extra displacement and weight) as the GLK..so what is different now, compared to just 3 short years ago? Piezo injectors and even higher pump pressures, DEF (which I think must enhance tuning abilities in other regards)..I wonder what else?

ruking1

Probably need to add Performance Friction brake pads.

ruking1

Well most to all diesel oems, but VW TDI 's,: i.e., and in particular are into "CONSTANT IMPROVEMENT".

I know it will take Gagrice a while, but the 2013 VW T TDI (2012 is my MY) has a lot of ENGINE improvements, which he has NOT commented yet on.

The objective differences are 240 hp/406 # ft FROM 225 hp/406# ft. (15 hp better)

I have heard: 1. better mpg, 2. more hp (obviously) 3. less convoluted drive chain paths 4. lighter intake components 5. less friction generated. 6. less use of battery from A/C.

crkyolfrt

With extra interest I read your #3. Remember last year my concerns with the routing of the timing chain and longevity of the guides? So that just confirms, they must have thought it an issue too, or maybe they have had issues already, why else make the change? To be honest, I am surprised they tried to pass that off in the first place. Although that said..VW also started using a pressed fit gear on the end of the cam on the first generation TDIs, and of course it started to wobble and loosen and was an issue. The old engines used to have that gear welded on I believe..

These guys (all of 'em) always trying to improve a profit margin by trying on a short-cut...and let the guinea pigs (the consumer and their hard earned cash) show them what they can and can't get away with..sigh..

ruking1

Thankfully for all the possible issues that can be statistically significant, that one has yet to hit the "S" list.

ruking1

Audi in some to most cities anyway?

Why diesels?

Funny that the Italian engine maker for the new Dodge TDI sells a lot of its TDI for use in LONDON cabs ! ?

If one follows the conventional wisdom/s, a gasser/hybrid or plug in for that matter would be the ticket/s?

gagrice

Why own a vehicle at all if you live in a Cesspool like NYC. Just get on the subway and hope you don't get mugged or pushed in front of the train by a drug crazed lunatic. You can't be carrying a full load if you choose to live in a big city anyway.

ruking1

For as much time as we consume "WASTE" in a so called suburban commute, I would dare say more time is consumed "WASTED" in a city's public and commute transportation including walking. Being exposed to the so called "FULL" range of deviant behaviors I am sure is part of the TREAT of living in cities such as NYC. This is to say nothing of being exposed to communicable diseases and other pathogens.

stever

Heh, I've been to Chicago, LA, Denver, Seattle, NYC and quite a few "smaller" cities just this year. NYC is da best. :-) And that's largely because you don't have to deal with cars. Couldn't really handle any place much bigger than 100k these days except NYC; traffic is too big of a hassle.

For whatever reason, the diesel fumes in Colorado (even in the small towns) have been bad this trip. Some of it is coal burning I think. I like to cruise towns with the windows open but had to leave the AC on mostly, and had to do the recirc trick in parts of Denver. Had a big storm the night we camped in Denver and yet the next morning there was still a brown haze over town. Sad.

ruking1

I think that if I address the schema that you are presenting and highlighting, we (I) will almost instantly and certainly go too far a field from the "DIESEL" thread. There are both very macro and very micro changes that have been afoot for multiple decades, both good/bad, all at once and in many directions. As you probably have noticed, there are almost distinct and perceptual work ethics in shifting people to cities, while gutting smaller cities to rural type areas. Detroit might be the (graphic) poster child in what NOT to do in handling a city over multiple decades or the counter point being : EXACTLY what TO DO !! ??

I personally LOVE NYC. I actually have for easily 45+ years.(lived @ one time in NY state also). However, if you ask people in NY State what they think about NYC, it is not unlike how a lot of the middle east sees America. ! ? Indeed a lot of NYC'ers see the rest of the state as back waters HICS: the "colonies".

gagrice

Denver has a similar problem to Los Angeles. Surrounded by mountains. No place for the pollution to go. They should have set a population limit and when it was reached closed the highways in and out. I can honestly say I hate both cities and avoid them as much as possible. I have never been closer to NYC than Utica and that suits me fine. I cannot imagine they have anything I want. And I am sure the price would be out of my self imposed frugal budget. I hear horror stories of $200 a night hotel rooms filled with roaches and bed bugs. If I want to get screwed on hotel rooms I can drive across Interstate 20 in TX.

We are planning our October trip to Indiana. Will not get to see much of TX as we will take a route further North. Shortest is I40. Will wander off that to the back roads of America. The ones without all the gasoline pollution. We try to take a different route each time. I am thinking with the much better diesel mileage, we may continue the two times per year schedule.

flightnurse

I prefer DC over NYC for public transportation. SF for me is right behind DC, NYC has too much attitude.

houdini1

The last time I was in NYC I stayed at a very nice (expensive) hotel, The St. Regis.

As I was checking in, two black guys came tumbling down the stairs and landed right at my feet. One was with hotel security and he had found the other guy trying to break into one of the rooms, etc.

The next morning I paid over $11.00 for a bowl of oatmeal, and this was a few years ago. I haven't been back.

stever

Funny, this last trip we enjoyed the towns north of the city a lot and found a couple of excellent restaurants - really better than anything we had in the city that trip. And the in-laws in "upstate" (Cornwall) loved the city. Wish they hadn't moved.

In topical news, here's a good status report from the Economist:

The rebirth of the diesel engine

"A whole new generation of sprightly diesels—developed over the past few years—bear no resemblance to the clattering Oldsmobile 4.3-litre diesel of the late 1970s, which single-handedly destroyed diesel’s reputation in America for decades.

Later this year Americans will get their first chance to experience what a really advanced diesel is like—and why Europeans opt for diesels over hybrids, plug-in electrics and even petrol-powered cars."

Lowering the compression is key.

bhill2

"A whole new generation of sprightly diesels—developed over the past few years—bear no resemblance to the clattering Oldsmobile 4.3-litre diesel of the late 1970s, which single-handedly destroyed diesel’s reputation in America for decades.

OK, I haven't released my smarta__ buildup lately, so I will do it now. The 4.3 diesel played a relatively small part in destroying diesel’s reputation in America. It was the 5.7 diesel that did the trick.

ruking1

..."A whole new generation of sprightly diesels—developed over the past few years—bear no resemblance to the clattering Oldsmobile 4.3-litre diesel of the late 1970s, which single-handedly destroyed diesel’s reputation in America for decades.

Later this year Americans will get their first chance to experience what a really advanced diesel is like—and why Europeans opt for diesels over hybrids, plug-in electrics and even petrol-powered cars." ...

I find this quote to be almost like a dangling irrational paragraph, in the context of how LOUSY unleaded and leaded RUG/PUG cars were in this period . Incidentally, while some diesels were probably lousy and problematic during this period, the fact of the matter was LOUSY RUG/PUG cars were absolutely the overwhelming majority of the passenger vehicle fleet.

More GLARING legislative and regulatory failures include NOT mandating lower ppm sulfur for the diesel side ALSO which changed app 36 years LATER in 2006 currently @ 15 ppm (almost a biblical generation) vs 30 to 90 ppm sulfur for RUG/PUG.

Here are two more examples.

1. The 2003 VW Jetta TDI ( model years before also) was/were designed to run ULSD fuel, aka ZERO to less than 15 ppm sulfur. YET the most commonly available DIESEL fuel was LSD, aka LOW sulfur diesel, more specifically 140 ppm sulfur (CA) to 500 ppm sulfur (49 states) .

2. Legislative and regulatory agencies are also LOATHED to grant permission for up to 100% BIODIESEL engine specifications !? Biodiesel, as most folks know is ZERO ppm to a more conversational 1 ppm sulfur. In the past to currently, VW will VOID engine repair warranties, if more than 5% biodiesel is used. I am sure the other oems follow similar standard protocols.

guido65

Would I? It would depend on the price of the vehicle in comparison to a gas vehicle. How long would it take me to make the price difference back since the diesel is more expensive up front? I drive a gas vehicle that is now getting me 34.1 average MPG. A diesel of the same size would get me about 10MPG better? Price is the key. Get the price down to within 1-2K of a gas vehicle and I would probably jump to a diesel.

ruking1

At (my) corner store prices 3.59/3.99, @34.1 mpg you'd be paying 10.53 cent per mile driven. So you would need only 38 mpg to B/E. Since you did not say which car that you get 34.1 mpg in, I would say chances are it does not have a like model diesel.

So for example in the case of a (like for like model) 09 VW Jetta gasser 28.4 mpg (PUG @ 3.79) VS TDI 39.6 mpg (ULSD @ 3.99) (www.fueleconomy.gov) B/E is @ 30 mpg.

crkyolfrt

It was the 5.7 diesel that did the trick.

You took the words right outta my mouth. In fact the 4.3 was probably not nearly the disaster cuz there was less block length dimension to twist. It was the lack of block strength that was primarily behind the 5.7 woes. Although not limited to just that..

crkyolfrt

The feds win again. And again and again and again with their EPA fudging of diesel fueled vehicles.

Although...even if a consumer falls prey to misguided EPA expectations (overly pessimistic) the consumer should still get the calculator out. Just cuz diesel often costs more by the gallon, it doesn't mean that it still isn't the way to more economical driving..unless you only do a few thousand miles a year of course..

It is not for everyone, but it IS better for far more consumers than they are led to believe given the fudged info as their only government resource.

Paid $5.14 for RUG today
($1.359/ litre)

gagrice

At today's price of RUG used in my Sequoia the cost is 26 cents per mile. Diesel would have to cost $6.82 per gallon for my Touareg to cost 26 cents a gallon. Just went past 1000 miles today. on my second tank of diesel and just under half full. Computer says I am getting 25.8 MPG. I am thrilled. Nearly double the Sequoia with a much better driving experience. Can't wait to get it out on the highway and see what it will really do. The first 1000 miles were mostly city freeway driving. With all the speed up and slow downs that entails.

crkyolfrt

Cool! As for the early speed up / slow down miles, that's a preferred break-in anyway.
The worse thing your T Reg has been through was that first long idle with the salesman. Given its complexity, sorta to be expected I guess. A necessary evil one might say.. Likely not everything would work right if it was just with the ignition 'on'. Plus if it was hot, you'd need to be in their A/C shop without the engine running.

Can't believe the number of GLKs I see..about 10:1 with the Touareg. Although I don't get out much...and I think I keep seeing the same black one and a white one.
And there must be someone on my road that has a white T. I see it often even walking down to get the mail. It's a tease for me if I am honest. Has that light tan interior I like too.. It would look a LOT better had it been in the start of my drive, headed for home 700' later, haha

gagrice

The GLK is a good seller for MB. The Touareg is a slow seller for VW. People that have $50k+ to spend on a vehicle are not shopping at VW. The competition is very strong in the Touareg class.
Year to Date Sales
Touareg = 5638 -10%
Audi Q7 = 9386 +49%
Cayenne = 12,517 +28%
BMW X5 = 26,613 +3%
MB ML = 26,220 +6%
MB GLK = 20,896 + 23%
MB GL + 19,835 +27%

I added the smaller and larger MB to show why Mercedes has better coverage of the diesel SUV market. And they are not discounting like some of the others. The GLK being the exception. The Luxury battle is between Mercedes and BMW. With MB holding less than a 2000 vehicle lead. Glad to see the Germans maintaining their rightful lead in true luxury over the Made for gullible American Japanese Luxos.

VW is struggling this year after several double digit gain years. They do have Audi and Porsche that are both flying high. So that is good for VW corporate. The significant numbers for VW is 30.4% of August sales were diesel and 24.3% YTD. That tells me they need to get more production across their line. The Tiguan is a natural for diesel. VW does not have a diesel well suited for the vehicle. Mercedes hit the sweet spot with their much beefier 4 cylinder twin turbo diesel. I think VW is planning to bring the Tiguan with the V6 which seems to be overkill in my opinion. People will likely buy the Q5 TDI for a few dollars more. Looking at the TMV on the Audi Q5 TDI equipped comparable to my Touareg, would cost right what I paid. Now that makes no good sense to me.