Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Off subject but probably related: In Silicon Valley, I pass by a (Chevron) station where B20 is cheaper than ULSD, albeit not by much ($4.12 vs 4.39 Sep 8, 2012)
Oh, the RUG/diesel spread here at home is only 15 cents right now.
As you know CA is normally blessed with inflated prices
CS: RUG $3.67, PUG $3.87, ULSD $3.99
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Very interesting WSJ article. Noteworthy, or shall I say lack of note is NO mention of diesels' component which would gives app 30% better fuel economy.
..."BMW's X3 SUV with a 2.0 l 4 cylinder engine is rated @ 24 mpg in comb C/H driving,"...
Interesting they left out a 1000 # heavier machine with a 1 l BIGGER engine (3.0) getting 25.9 (app) like the 2013 VW Touaeg TDI !!
TMI: The rule of thumb is per 100#'s( +/-) is app 1 mpg hit/advantage. The 26.4 gal tank weighs app 211 #'s, full tank.
So the longer you do not fill, the more (undetermined to actual unknown) mpg for the remaining gals you will theoretically get.
Let's use half a tank to illustrate. Our 1/2 tank is 13.2 gals (8*'s per gal )= 105.6 #'s. SO for the remaining (1/2 tank 13.2 gals) you should get 1 mpg better or 13.2 miles better.
Fueling early actually worked against me the last time in the SOS DD end destination. Long story short, the grocery store station where I fueled gave me a $1 per gal discount which I found out AFTER the card swipe. I took on 12.5 gals or so. (12.5 dollar savings) BUT if I had waited, I think I could have taken on 26 gals for a 26 dollar savings. Now that savings could have bought 6.5 gals of diesel or almost 1 leg (202 miles) of the SOS DD. LOL
Now it must be a pretty huge cumulative deal, as OEMS ACTIVELY try to lose weight. Needless to say most of the US market cars are GASSERS.
So for example, a past post indicates the (gasser) Acura MDX going so far as to change PLATFORMS (from mini van to RDX ) with an engine tweak to lose something like 232 #'s (two MAJOR changes) !!!! This was good for a 28 H mpg EPA. I would swag a less than for the real world, driving it the way I drive the diesel.
You know, back in the day I backpacked some and weight was a big deal - the zealots would go so far as to cut off half their toothbrush handles. Then I discovered river canoeing and you get to see more with not a lot of work, and you can carry chairs and other fun stuff while saving your back.
Great mpg is one thing, but there's no need to get too carried away - these 10 or 12 gallon gas tanks are the pits.
I have to agree with you on that one. I once owned a 2005 Mazda Tribute with a V6. I averaged about 19.5 mpg overall with the SUV, which I did not complain about. But the 12 gallon tank, combined with 19.5 mpg, gave me a very, very short range.
Double that mpg for a diesel and the $500 we'd saved would have handled one car payment. :-)
Yeah, but can you carry as much as you did in the Quest in something that gets 48MPG?
Maybe a Jetta Sport Wagen. Maybe.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Jetta Alltrack will follow that same blueprint as the Audi A4-based allroad.
More ground clearance would be a plus. Didn't really get off the pavement much this trip; need to correct that next time. :-)
I hate to pick nits, but the license on the picture says "Passat Alltrack". So, a size up from the Jetta.
Don't think the Passat Wagon is offered here.
But, I like. More stylish than the Outback, IMO.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Left Lane Says:
The production Alltrack will be based on an all-new version of the Jetta SportWagen, which is scheduled to arrive in U.S. showrooms by the end of next year. The new SportWagen will share its architecture with VW's latest Golf model.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/volkswagen-alltrack-to-target-subaru-xv-crosstre- - k-in-us.html
Let's just hope the "regular" wagon stays in the lineup, and not discontinued like the Legacy wagon was.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/new-diesel-engine-set-for-2015-volkswagen-golf-b- - - - eetle-passat-and-jetta.html
That would work well in the Jetta Alltrack.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
a lot of his stock.
I believe we are at the tail end of the "golden age" of capitalism. Our government is running with NO fiscal responsibility.
I guess America doesn't have a credit report to maintain. 17 trillion in debt. In car terms, I wouldn't approve a Toyota Yaris for our government.
But I think that people have figured out that cars cost a lot to own and maintain, and parking and driving is getting to be a bigger and bigger hassle. Easier to take public transit to your job if you can and play on your tablet or smartphone getting there.
Once we all upgrade our aging fleets, demand will likely fall back a few million cars.
Cars all run pretty good these days, there's not much differentiation in looks, the "prestige" brands are a dime a dozen and we all know you're leasing your ride for $299 a month anyway. So why bother trading cars until your current one gets real stale? These days, that may take a decade or more.
So in the case of a VW Touareg gasser vs TDI, consumption is 14,286 gals vs 9677 gals 4,609 gals more (48% more). At today's prices, the cost of fuel is app $18,436 more.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Yes and no. If you're talking about a Porsche, hell yes, ungodly expensive. But if you're talking Honda or Toyota, not so much, no.
parking and driving is getting to be a bigger and bigger hassle
Once again, yes and no. I understand that most people who live in New York City do not own a car, for exactly the reasons that you have stated. It's my understanding that has been true for many years in NYC, and is being more true in other major urban areas. But if you live in, oh, say West Texas, then definitely not true.
Cars all run pretty good these days, there's not much differentiation in looks, the "prestige" brands are a dime a dozen and we all know you're leasing your ride for $299 a month anyway. So why bother trading cars until your current one gets real stale? These days, that may take a decade or more.
You're actually arguing against yourself here, both sides of the coin. If people are leasing, then they pretty much have to do something different every 3 years, don't they?
And as for "differentation in looks", I will admit there are a lot of models that look alike, but you can still get very individualistic if you wish. Have you seen a Murano convertible? Or how about buying a Jeep Wrangler instead of a car?
Actually that is one way (of many) to cut the costs of car buying. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. So if one buys a car coming off lease (3 years/36k miles), one easily has 114,000 miles left.
I think boredom will set in after one cycle, Ruking. Leasing fixes that, but leasing at an all time high. It really doesn't make sense (to me at least) for the typical driver, so I'm guessing that the leasing boom will end after a bunch of first timers face over-mileage charges, excess wear and tear costs and turn in fees.
VW cheapened their Passat and Jetta Houdini, and sales boomed for a while. Word may be getting out, because they've canceled shifts in Chattanooga.
Funny that I had a Wrangler at one time, and I'm one of the few people around here (especially being a guy), that "appreciates" the Murano CrossCabriolet.
I got no answer for West Texas Ohenryx and I'm not going to tell those folks to move, since I like big empty spaces like that. But I'd head for El Paso or Abilene for living.
Got a cousin in Midland but with all the stripper wells around there, it smells too much like diesel everywhere for me to live there. :-)
The (US markets) Passat and Jetta "decontenting" was announced years before. Indeed the 2009 Jetta TDI was one of last of the more European "like" model years.
The good / bad news was that was part to parcel of sales success for both the Jetta (slight increase) and the "Americanized" Passat, ZERO to app 139k units ! I think the only issues are really of "ASSUMPTIONS." Even though total units of US market Passat sales are UP, they have not doubled yet AGAIN, to 280k units. But yes, to keep the upward climb, constant improvement is probably an essential ingredient. VW has not made it a secret that it wants to grow market share AND volume.
So with so called "constant" improvement BEING an essential ingredient, while Houdini makes a very VALID point, itt is really a fear of the "big three , 2.5 peat" and not the realities and benefits of constant improvement.
By that I mean when Ford was on the rope a dopes and GM Chrysler were both doing bankruptcies and bail outs. They gave less than constant improvement/s and enough customers LEFT or didn't BUY. The government should have let 2 to three fall, if the decrease in manufacturing capacity (cars) was really the government's longer term goal. If this happened during the current administration it would have been easy to blame it on a bad video made in LOST Angeles ! We all know what they did. We also know what taxpayers were stuck with doing. Even unions know they have to keep costs in line and quality up and make that even better. They now have stock stakes and board room representations (if for no other reasons) . So they can no long blame their gluttonous greed and "seemingly business stupidity perspectives" solely on "management," they NOW are ONE ! ? If union officials don't like the hideous salaries paid to so called "management", any union type can step up and do the job for a token say $1.00 to $100,000 per year. Seems to me, not many takers. BUT I could be WRONG.
It does stink along I20 for sure. I could live in the Hill Country of TX. Just too expensive for my blood. All the fat cats from Austin and San Antonio have hunting ranches out there.
I believe we are at the tail end of the "golden age" of capitalism. Our government is running with NO fiscal responsibility.
Totally agree with that point.
Funny that I had a Wrangler at one time, and I'm one of the few people around here (especially being a guy), that "appreciates" the Murano CrossCabriolet.
Too ugly to own. But would rent one in Hawaii for fun. Any reviews on its off roadability?
US market Passat sales are UP, they have not doubled yet AGAIN, to 280k units.
My bet is the Alltrack will be built in Chattanooga and go on sale late next year. They are being sold in Australia currently. Volkswagen has its eyes set on competing against the Subaru Outback with an all-wheel-drive, Golf-based Jetta SportWagen due in the U.S. in late 2014.
But I think that people have figured out that cars cost a lot to own and maintain, and parking and driving is getting to be a bigger and bigger hassle.
Vehicles do cost a lot. Buy one with maintenance included. And if you have a NAV or Google maps put the filter to avoid CITIES, INTERSTATES & Toll Roads. No hassle with traffic or parking in the small towns across America. And they appreciate your dollars in the small Diners, Drive-ins and Dives. Not to mention lower priced Motels and stress free driving. :shades:
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If I can cite one that is literally LONG in the tooth but probably as fresh today as when I bought one one (new) in 1978 or 35 years ago is the GOLF platform (aka then, Rabbit) As funny as this sounds even I want to at least test drive a GTD !?
RUG - $3.79
Diesel - $3.99
$4.19 PUG and $4.15 diesel.
according to Gas Buddy.
Costco is back up to $3.75
Cheapest diesel is $3.97
RUG = $3.75
PUG = $3.95
D2 = $3.99
It probably needs to be said more folks buy PUG than D2 (ratio of 2 to one, 8/9% PUG to less than 5% diesel)
Or for VW to bring in a TDI engine that does a little better than 9.3 in the 0-60. Slooowwwww. I'd settle for a 170hp tdi that did 8.0ish. Fast enough to have fun, still good mileage.
I would also like the same if not greater torque. I would also like it all in @ low rpm. I'd like way less noise hoopla. Since most (95%) passenger car gasser drivers are used to gassers and the majority of this majority don't even know what more or less torque means, at the worst some will notice: "wow, love these gassers". I'd also like more hp, you can see this race in the iconic upcoming 14 Chevrolet Corvette Sting ray @ 455 hp with 460# ft of torque (6.2 liter @ 29 mpg H EPA) and 40 to 46 mpg would be wonderful. Did I also say way cheaper would be better also? Since I am @ it why not little to no hp, torque and mpg loss at higher altitudes (5,000 to 12,000 ft), and RUG ? All that in a 3.0 liter engine would really move the needle for me, getting me back to gassers. If a 6.2 l engine can get 29 mpg why shouldnt a 3.0 l gasser be able to get say 58 mpg?
Since most people aren't motor-heads or car guys, unless someone tows, they probably aren't going to care much about torque. Even 0 to 60 numbers don't mean much to the "average" car buyer.
Diesel fans really should emphasize range and mpg (or gpm) imo.
LIke I have said under different topics, why use 200 # ft of torque when 460 # ft will do ?
...."should emphasize range and mpg (or gpm) imo."...
Even on this thread, the majority of gasser owners/users do not care.
Sad to say, you're right about the indifference to gas mileage.
Okay, so, the best way to attract diesel fans has to boil down to this:
MORE CHROME!
Talk about idiocy, but that's DC I guess.