Yeah, guess I'm wrong anyway. A real Green would want $5 a gallon gas and rigs that only get 8 mpg, and free bus passes. All these new cars with good mpg are just going to encourage everyone to drive more. Although I don't where you are going to put all of them in an urban environment - I got stuck in traffic in Chicago, Denver and Minneapolis this last trip and I was avoiding commute times.
Coming soon to a theatre near you - pay by the mile to drive.
Been home a week and drove the car one time a mile to the grocery store. Nice being back on the bikes. :-)
Here is an excerpt from Popular Science about the 2.2 twin-scroll ULC diesel.
Diesel-engine designers have long grappled with a dilemma: Reducing emissions meant either cutting efficiency or adding expensive equipment. With the Skyactiv-D, Mazda engineers decreased pollution, boosted mileage, and eliminated the cost of exhaust after-treatments by building the world’s lowest-compression diesel engine. They then added two turbochargers and a capacitor-based regenerative braking system. When it arrives in U.S. showrooms late this year, the Skyactiv-D–equipped Mazda 6 should deliver approximately 44 highway mpg while meeting strict emission standards, proving that diesel engines have many miles left in them. SMART TURBOCHARGER A two-stage turbocharging system contains a small turbine that boosts low-end torque, as well as a larger turbocharger that increases high-end horsepower. An electronic controller runs the turbochargers, tuning performance to conditions. LIGHTWEIGHT COMPONENTS The Skyactiv-D’s engine overhaul has a side benefit: Engineers were able to build the engine with lighter, lower-friction components, including 25-percent lighter pistons and an aluminum cylinder block that trims 55 pounds. LOW COMPRESSION RATIO Diesel engines ignite fuel by combining it with air and compressing it to extremely high pressure. Yet compared to that of gasoline, the high pressure and temperature of diesel combustion produce more smog-forming nitrogen oxides and sooty particulate matter. To meet pollution standards, modern clean diesels delay combustion until the piston begins its descent—but that reduces power and efficiency. Mazda’s solution: new fuel injectors and exhaust valves that allowed engineers to lower the compression ratio from 16.3:1 to 14.0:1. NO EXHAUST TREATMENTS Before exhaust even enters the tailpipe, the engine’s low compression ratio cuts emissions of nitrogen oxides and other pollutants enough to meet present (and future) standards both in Europe and the U.S. As a result, the Mazda6 does away with expensive urea tanks (which drivers have to refill every 10,000 miles or so) that many diesels use to neutralize emissions.
A real Green would want $5 a gallon gas and rigs that only get 8 mpg, and free bus passes.
You are probably closer to the truth than you realize. California is not called the golden state for nothing. It is because nothing our state government does is truly Green. Everything is done with a hidden agenda. How green is it to trash 1000s of commercial vehicles while they still have 100s or 1000s of miles left in them??? How green is it shutting down nukes and replacing the electricity with coal generated power from UT and AZ. How smart is it forcing the price of electricity up and then giving the poor help to pay their high electric bills. We are very frugal and half of August was our first heat spell. We ran our AC units just during the hottest part of the day to keep us at about 81 degrees. Then opened up the house as soon as it dropped below 80 outside. I just got the largest electric bill I have had over the last 7 years. I average $95 per month. This last month was $275. What would that do to someone on a budget? Our kids in Indiana have been running AC day and night this hot summer there. The biggest bill was $150. And it was hotter there than here.
PS I will be driving the Touareg more than the Sequoia for sure. And we take it shopping rather than the PU truck. Fun to drive. The truck gets the local 3 mile trips.
Oh don't get me started on the current nuke situation. That's been an unmitigated green and economic disaster. Your electric bill will likely include the decommissioning costs for San Onofree. That'll take decades and billions of dollars, assuming an earthquake doesn't hit in the meantime. If your solar panel goes haywire, you just recycle the metals and install a new one.
..."This thread is about what it would take for me to buy another diesel. Simply said, I want Japanese reliability, diesel FE, and good horsepower. I don't want much, do I? "....
2.0.12345 VAPORWARE change two .012345. Might all be good reasons why the Japanese oems have announced "wedding plans" and @ least Honda (twice now) and Mazda, have had COLD feet. Dodge has taken a scheduling punt on the Jeep TDI's.
We all look forward to your 100,000 miles take on your diesel ( NEW, by then OLD) I would swag a minimum of 6 years from now !
Having worked for a software company that outsources IT functions, a majority of the engineers I've worked with from India were never trained to think creatively(outside the box).
Very few ever impressed me vs their American counterparts.
They did the same thing when MTBE or whatever than "wunder kin" additive was called and was supposed to have done. (They actually did that with LEADED R/P gasoline also but I would suspect a lot of the audience is too young to know) They actually FORCED EVERYONE (refiner food chain: to eat (political) pork not beef) to a ( BILLIONS of $$$$$'s religious) conversion. THEN shortly after, when they admitted they screwed up ROYALLY: PROCEEDED to CHARGED consumers for both taking MTBE out and NOT putting it into RUG/PUG !!!!!
Man oh man, you can't even MAKE this CRAP up ! Now they are trying to further muck things up by flying greater than 10% ethanol up the figurative, literal and proverbial flag pole. The operative issue is that it took a LONG time and monies to beef up and solve the unintended consequences to using less than 10% ethanol in RUG/PUG. AAA estimates 95% + of the passenger vehicle fleet are NOT ready for anything over 10% ethanol. So does anyone thing there will be NO unintended consequences?
Being creative and having good engineering skills are not necessarily both needed. I don't know about outsourced like engineering sent overseas. I look at names on patents and many are from India, Pakistan & China. Just like doctors, when I chose my primary care doctor at Kaiser it looked like an address book from India. My point being we are not generating enough engineers & doctors for the jobs in the USA. Which means we go abroad. Bill Gates has spent Billions in India preparing people.
SEATTLE -- On March 20, 2013, the Department of Biotechnology (DBT) of India, its Biotechnology Industry Research Assistance Council (BIRAC), and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation launched Grand Challenges India. Through this partnership, the government and the foundation will co-fund projects that aim to harness Indian innovation and research, and direct scientific discovery to develop affordable, sustainable solutions that improve health in India and around the world.
There must be a good reason they are spending our tax dollars in other countries instead of the USA. I look at the kids around our high schools and it all becomes clear. There are exceptional kids in the USA. Not as many as we need.
"2.0.12345 VAPORWARE change two .012345. Might all be good reasons why the Japanese oems have announced "wedding plans" and least Honda (twice now) and Mazda, have had COLD feet. Dodge has taken a scheduling punt on the Jeep TDI's."
I think what he is saying the Japanese automakers are great at proposing marriage and even better at leaving the bride waiting at the altar. Honda, Subaru and Mazda have all made promises to bring US diesels. And none have made it to the church so far.
In some ways, the emphasis mirrors the shift of US/domestic manufacturing offshore decades to generations ago.
Another would be that most of the (early to even later US) educational systems are designed to steer most US kids AWAY from the courses necessary for careers, such as science, engineering and the medical field. When the systems emphasize being "rappers", entertainers, sports, political hacking, etc, etc, etc. it can hardly be a surprise that (for say) inner city kids don't seem to pick, let alone be picked for engineering or the medical fields. A non pc way to say this: "GEEKDOM" is totally vilified. The G word should have the same significance as the N word.
One relative entered practice last year @ age 29 (extended adolescence if one will- once upon a time 11 years too long) Another relative will enter practice this year @ age 28.5 years. Another took a further specialization. He will be ready to "hang his shingle" @ age 34.5 years old. Then, they ALL face the specter of OBAMA CARE ! Massive changes will literally be measured in decades, if not generations.
THEN, (as no good deed goes unpunished) most have student loans to repay.
Another would be that most of the (early to even later US) educational systems are designed to steer most US kids AWAY from the courses necessary for careers, such as science, engineering and the medical field.
The emphasis in CA public schools is multiculturalism and diversity. Peace on earth and global warming. The average kid coming out of our school system believe they can get rich programming video games or website design. If they are focused on their future at all. The top private schools today are $50k per year. And preference is given to foreign exchange students that pay full fare. 200,000+ Chinese students entered our colleges and Universities last year. A kid that followed the advice in our public schools, would be lucky to get a scholarship or even admitted to a top school. More than likely they will be sucked into a specialty school that gets them in debt with a promise of a great job designing ladies clothes. As a country we are failing our young people. Parents are to blame as well.
The chances of an engineer surpassing the German designs for diesel engines at our auto makers is close to ZERO. If the Japanese and Koreans cannot do it, how are we supposed to compete?
I was reading in passing an article in the WSJ saying the (South) Koreans doing real well in one of the worlds most competitive educational system. Hopefully they are not educationing the "northerners" whose political system is dedicated to the "reunification" of the south.
with diesel autos in the US is the lack of financial support from the Govt. There are a few, very few applications where the usage is more economical. This is not counting the use of diesel in trucks or huge SUVs. Diesel fuel is more expensive than gas by about 30-35 cents here. Add to that an initial higher cost-often financed.....and the figures do not add up. In addition, many consumers never look at the total cost of ownership over 7-10 years, but rather the initial monthly cost. Throw in the "different" maintainence requirements etc and diesels are not viewed as a choice. The first time someone is stranded by gelled fuel would be the last time for many as well. Diesels are very popular where there is tax incentive to make gas more expensive as it is seen as the "commercial" fuel. In the EU and many other parts of the world the high gas tax drives the use of diesel or LPG etc... fuel vehicles. Just not here. I do tons of highway miles a year, I might consider a diesel for my next purchase. If I can get the numbers to add up. But I would keep a gas car for use when the temp really drops.
The stated policy of the current administration, despite the cat being let out of the bag (actually it was a case about the cat being WAY too big for the containment bag) about the US being exponentially beyond the middle east of energy is ever higher domestic fuel prices, no matter how produced. Stated goals when RUG/PUG is @ $4.00 is for it to get to European market levels $8 to 11 per gal., or @ least 2 x to almost 3x's more.
Of course, the "OLD" administration (Bush) is responsible for that "Corny addition" to RUG/PUG, aka ethanol. The use of foodstuffs for fuel in light of almost unimaginable DOMESTIC energy reserves approaches INSANITY, if rationality is part of the argument. The major rational was to have LESS dependence on FOREIGN OIL !!! Any percentage (ethanol) use will consume MORE product, yield less mpg, more pollutive and @ progressively higher cost per mile driven, fuel. Keep in mind that BIODIESEL can be" manufactured from literally a plethora of sources , a lot of them WASTE streams !?
It would be the HEIGHT of naive to say that former OIL CEO's like Bush & Cheney et al. were NOT privy to the information contained in that BAG (overwhelming energy abundance) . It would approach the complete and utter chutzpah of the ( Clinton through) then UN Ambassador RICE reciting the BAD VIDEO cause for the Benghazi Al Qaida "decimated event".
So it is as you would imply, there are various PUNISHMENT's (different levels and severities) for using less, albeit economic.
I do tons of highway miles a year, I might consider a diesel for my next purchase. If I can get the numbers to add up. But I would keep a gas car for use when the temp really drops.
I cannot imagine you not coming out ahead with a diesel equivalent vehicle over 3 years, 7 years or 10+ years. The cost difference is easily recouped with fuel savings and at resale time. I worked with a guy in Alaska that lives in South Dakota. He has owned an F250 diesel since 1999. He only runs B20 from the Farm Co-op. I asked about gelling. Said never has happened. Most places add D1 in the cold months to avoid gelling. If you leave a diesel out in the cold with summer diesel then expect it to run fine you may have a problem with gelling. Kind of like leaving Unleaded gas in your lawnmower over the Winter. I will say buying a Cruze diesel vs the eco gas model may be a marginal. Of course the driving experience would be marginal with the gas version. The difference between 12 seconds to 60 MPH in the gasser vs 8 seconds in the diesel. Fuelly has several Cruze diesel owners already posting. Most are in the 45 MPG combined range. The Gas Cruze eco are getting 33 MPG.
for the diesel Cruze to be equal to our $4 gas, the price would have to be $5.51 per gallon. I don't see that much difference ever happening. 35 cents more is nothing. For me in the Touareg TDI vs my Sequoia the price of diesel will have to reach $6.68 per gallon vs our current $4 RUG.
With the EPA experimenting in CA with new feedstock for Ethanol, look out for your gassers. The Feds will not accept any responsibility for engine damage.
My 19 mile each way commute into downtown Indy and back uses less than 6 gallons a week and I never hit trafic. My Malibu gets 34 mpg on that commute loop in summer and with this week's $3.30 RUG, that's less than 10 cents a mile and way far off from what it takes to drive me into a diesel car lot. But out of curiosity, is the same car in a diesel the same price? Or is a customer supposed to pay a premium up front to buy a diesel car?
But out of curiosity, is the same car in a diesel the same price? Or is a customer supposed to pay a premium up front to buy a diesel car?
Does steak cost more than hamburger? Silly question. You get what you pay for. The diesel option is worth more than the gas engine. Why shouldn't it cost you more. Of course we have hashed this every way you can imagine. If a person wants a gas slug I would not talk them out of it. In fact I never have suggested a diesel to anyone looking at new cars. I don't want to hear the whining when they put gas in their diesel tank. Buying a diesel is for those with superior intelligence that can tell the difference when they go to the gas station. That can use a calculator to determine if it will save them money in the long run. The rest get what they deserve.
Buying a diesel is for those with superior intelligence that can tell the difference when they go to the gas station. That can use a calculator to determine if it will save them money in the long run. The rest get what they deserve.
LOVE IT!!! Truer words have never been spoken here..and there have been some doozies..
I'm happy not to have "financial support from the Govt.". The problem is the Govt. actually PENALIZES Diesel. None the less, I'm getting great service from two Jetta Diesels, and the mileage more than makes up for the additional costs. Of course I purchased mine used, but I've found the Jettas do as good or better than their EPA numbers, while most of the gas cars do not.
Are gas engines getting better? Yes, but so are the diesels. With the low end torque and driving a substantial car, I don't feel like I'm being penalized for driving the TDI. The hybrid and low MPG gas options are generally lighter cars, that costs more and or don't have anywhere near the build quality and overall performance.
I do loose a couple MPG during the winter, but it's not that big of a deal. I'm really hoping Mazda brings the new Diesel 6 in as a Wagon.
I am surprised for as much as diesels have been talked about on this thread, the anti to less than convinced gasser types (no diesels) STILL almost ALWAYS do apples to plantains comparisons. However, it has been mentioned on this thread why the truly fuel efficient diesels have been kept OFF US markets. To wit, why buy a 50 mpg fuel guzzler ( like Prius) when you can get a 75 mpg VW Polo TDI ? (I too can reason apples to plantains) Yet it is almost like cursing in church with the Spanish Inquisition in attendance; if one compares a gasser to a hybrid like Toyota Corolla vs Prius.
So for example, the VW Touareg has the supercharged/hybrid LIKE for LIKE model. The thing literally CAN go like STINK. EPA H is something like 24 mpg? I suspect the ones (outlier) that do own it do not go to the stink portion.
Since not too many folks have it. ALL two of them on fully.com lists 20, 20.6 mpg respectively. This is anywhere 1.5 to 3 mpg BETTER than the more plentiful gasser (PUG) VW Touareg versions.
I just fueled (snap shot but in range of normal and SOS DD trips) the VW TDI after getting it back from the dealer's 3rd service (they normally excessively idle it) I kept it higher than the normal 85 mph in the slow lane, to make sure the tire rotation was correctly done. (no drift, neutral tracking, no shaking, etc) It posted 31 mpg. My swag: keeping it at the (optimized) 81 mph would probably post more like 33 mpg. H EPA is 28 mpg.
Now I could halfway go along with PART of the gasser owners argument if one will have a ZERO to way less need for doing mileage in the near future, say 5 years. But really that has NEVER been the case for me.
So for example, if one has to do 100,000 miles over XYZ time period; say 6 to 10 years, the VW T should post usage of 4,926 gals (20.3 mpg hybrid), 5,479 gals (18.25 mpg PUG ) 3,226 gals (31 mpg ULSD) !
Most folks do understand the hybrids (like models) cost more than gassers. In the Touareg's case, $15k+ more than diesel. Diesels cost $3,500 higher than gassers. (43,945) So if the gasser use 2,253 gals MORE than diesels @ $4 per gal, is spending $3.500 to keep from spending 9,012 a better or worse deal (5,512 savings) ? Diesel higher resale is also involved.
I think most folks know what is decided if 95% + passenger vehicle ownership being GASSERS are any indication.
This is not to say I have been unaffected. When I bought the TLC (almost 20 years ago) I was aware the ww markets had TDI's and could get 25 mpg. So really the same question or question remains unchanged: for 200,000 miles would I rather use 13,333 gals @ 15 mpg or 8,000 gals @ 25 mpg diesel?(67% more) @ today's prices ($4 per gal) $21,332 SAVINGS are even more dramatic.
I think you might be confusing software engineers (which India makes, of course with an education system that is hugely government controlled, something local "built it myself" pseudo-capitalists would scream about) and mechanical engineers, which are relevant to this thread. India isn't exactly innovating or doing much at all when it comes to the latter. And even in the former, you don't get much thinking outside the lines. The native culture doesn't value independent thought as much.
Also, those "unfilled" jobs are largely bunk, a number produced to create more H1Bs (cheap labor). Living in a tech area, I know how it works. Employers post non-existent positions which go unfilled, then some coddled should-be-hanged suits whine about needing more offshore work to fill the gap. They get it, then hire only the newbies, who gladly settle for lower standards (compensation, working conditions) than first world workers. Race to the bottom, globalization defined.
"Superior engineers"? More like cost savings so the already coddled and irresponsible top few can increase already undeserved profit margins. Maybe it will start trickling down soon. Economic traitors.
I had a rental X5 for a few days last week (before exchanging it back for the car I reserved). This is a car that NEEDS diesel and maybe should have it as a mandatory engine. The 6cyl gasser I had would go down into the low-mid teens in town, and struggle to break 20 on the highway. Insane. I bet a similar diesel unit would add 10mpg to that no problem. Performance was also unspectaacular.
Sadly, in Florida - a second world country , diesel was usually more than premium, sometimes much more. Weird how it varies from area to area.
I wonder what would happen if rich do-gooder white-mans-guilt suffering boomers would spend such money at home. There are plenty of exceptional minds right at home, but those who got lucky would rather help others.
Biotech and mechanical engineering are still very different, too.
Don't tell me Obama and Clinton lied to US? My guess is every US engineer with half brain coming out of college gets a job that pays above the median income. I will agree [non-permissible content removed] companies like Apple and Microsoft offer less to push their foreign hire agenda. There are 1000s of companies that are actively looking for engineers. Some like the D3 should be if they plan to compete with the Foreign Automakers.
I had a rental X5 for a few days last week (before exchanging it back for the car I reserved). This is a car that NEEDS diesel and maybe should have it as a mandatory engine.
It is a rocket with the diesel. I think it has the same 6.9 Second 0-60 as the Touareg TDI. Great for merging into our 75 MPH Interstate traffic flow. Especially with our uphill ramps that work a small gas engine to death. Even V8s like the one in my Sequoia.
Biotech and mechanical engineering are still very different, too.
For sure. The need is there for both types. What is NOT needed are more PHDs in Philosophy or Humanities. And you don't need any college to become a website designer. Our friend started doing them for friends. When her husband took an IT job in Michigan she got hired right away by Chrysler. Making far more than they were here in San Diego. He was one of the ones that Apple offered less than the cost of living to relocate to Silicon Valley. He turned them down and got the job in Michigan paying way more.
that there is not an advantage to having the diesel alternative. But in the US today-at least where I am-the actual numbers are against most people buying a diesel. A case in point: I just helped in the purchase of a car. 2012 Ford Focus SE hatch. 25000 or so miles. Auto, power locks, windows etc....Cute little silver car. $14000 with the ESP 100000 mile plan. The dealership had 34 used focuses (foki?) and wanted to deal. With $3000 down, and a surprise donation($1000- step daughter # 2) the monthly payment was less than $200. Great for a young person on a budget. Would she have paid more for a better stereo, fancy wheels or a sunroof?? In a flash. That is why I was there. Pay a penny extra for a diesel? Nope. 30 mpg will suit her just fine. The dealership also had several low mile Jettas. Gassers were about $15000....the two diesels were quite a bit more.
Maybe public funds should be used to encourage development of engineers as is normal in other/real first world nations. I agree about the soft degrees,too.
For the X5, absolutely silly with a 6cyl gas. It has to work hard at times, to the point where the mileage is probably only marginally better than the V8. These heavier vehicles are what diesels were made for.
I also spent 4 days in the V6 gas E, probably putting 800 miles or more on it. Was good for a back to back comparison with my Bluetec, which I drove earlier today. I'll admit the gas is a little smoother in some situations, and doesn't have what feels like turbo lag under some acceleration conditions. The mileage is also OK - easy to hit 30 on the highway,and low 20s in town. But, diesel highway mpg will probably be 20% better - maybe more, and the fuel cost here is the same or cheaper. Resale will probably be better too. It's not as clear a choice as in a SUV, but there are still positives.
Wow, your really chugging the Diesel. I routinely get between 38 and 42MPG in mixed driving. I have a Mini Coooper that only averages 26MPG, and REQUIRES high test. Often I can get diesel for less than high test here in PA where I live.
The Toureg TDI is a MONSTER. It's nor really comparable to anything. It is expensive, so I think folks who buy it simply have an appreciation for torque. ;-)
The Toureg TDI is a MONSTER. It's nor really comparable to anything. It is expensive, so I think folks who buy it simply have an appreciation for torque.
It replaced a Sequoia that was a lot bigger. I think we can live with the smaller size. Just pack better is all. ;-) Weight wise the Touareg is about as heavy. And is tow rated for more. It is at least a couple seconds faster to 60 MPH and much faster in the 30-80 range that I used most entering our freeways. Expensive is a relative thing. I love using VW's money for free. And the were really dealing the end of July on the Touaregs.
By the way there are about 6 vehicles that most shoppers would consider when looking for a diesel SUV. And the Touareg is the cheapest of the bunch. Car and Driver rated 5 diesel SUVs and the Touareg TDI Lux the best over all. Here is the case where you get the best for less.
The (VW) Jetta's 03/09 TDI's normally post 48-52 mpg, 38-42 mpg. Noteworthy (to me): the COMMUTE range is in the context of a 27 miles one way (5) daily commute that takes between 45 mins (we mostly WISH) to as high as 1.75 hours. A normal day would be 1 hour each way or 27 mph. To state the RANGE of mph is = 36 mph to 15.43 mph. Another noteworthy thing is multiple drivers.
One TMI for the 09 TDI was the IRS tax CREDIT for $1500. The exact title escapes me at this writing.
I like the 406 # ft of torque. I have only done like 3 tanks in commute traffic, but it posts 31-33 mpg. The neatest thing about this is cars at the six follow WAY behind as the 8 speed auto transmission almost RADICALLY decreases the need to use the brakes. So it is very hard (I swag) to really judge when I am slowing down and/or sometimes speeding up. This is also true in the mountains during my posts of SOS DD. The conditions are of course radically different again. However, it posts virtually the same mpg! (applies to the Jetta's also) Needless to say, I'd rather be going those speeds !!!!
A TMI about the Touareg: the tires are "shredding" at app 14,000 miles per 1/32nd in. I am swaging the 3 psi over (oem highway recommendation) the OEM recommend PSI contributes.
I would agree with the C&D article about the Touareg TDI I did wish the Jeep was in the market for testing when I was looking early in 2012.
Since I've joined this thread, I've started to take notice with VWs on the road how many TDIs vs. their Gasser counterpart. This is nothing scientific, just my general observation. Current body styles:
Passat - I see about 80% TDI on the road
Golf/GTI - There is definitely a mix of about 60% GTI vs. 40% Golf TDI. I know these are technically 2 different models, but every VW hatch seems to be either or. Can't remember the last time I saw a golf gasser.
Jetta - I definitely see about 70% "2.5 SE" gasser models, 25% TDI, & just 5% Hybrids (of which I've seen 6 this weekend).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
You are right Steve. I just read up on the Mazda 6 TD delay until "late" next spring. Darn, I was really looking forward to test driving one. I don't understand why they are having a hard time getting it U.S. certified. I read that it already met EPA requirements, and without a urea system!
There is another choice. The 2014 BMW 328d. It has almost identical specs to the new VW EA288 2.0 in the upcoming VW Golf GTD.
The BMW has 180 hp and 280 lb ft, and the Golf has just 4 more HP.
Now, If VW puts the new EA288 2.0 TD in the 2015 Passat, then it gets on the short list for a test drive as well. I would rather have a Passat than the Golf.
May your "trip to 300,000 miles and BEYOND" be ..."uneventful !"It also sounds like you have a M/T (by your mpg). It would be a QUAD whammy if you had the A/T !!
For me, your experiences are a triple whammy inspiration !
The first whammy is mileage @ 269,000 miles ! The second is no apparent change from the mpg you have been getting. Third, (yippee for) no apparent PD (pump duse) camshaft issues !!
Another swag are most probably, the technical corrections will be very costly.
Because they have NOT yet released it on the US market, in the worst case, they can pull the plug on the TDI project. The secondary principle here: an oz of prevention is worth a # of CURE. This would be true especially if the cost of cure/s makes the sales of this crop of diesels unprofitable. The reconfiguration of 4,000 units to "other than diesel options" is an interesting indicator.
If the OZ Mazda posting are true, they have to find a way to go from a 1,500 miles oem recommended OCI to a minimum of 10,000 miles OCI. If they are consuming oil, they have to find a way to get that down to almost NONE per 10,000 miles. But logic would probably include that if a OCI is needed recommended @ 1,500 miles, oil consumption is probably an issue.
As a comparison with slightly to aggressive BREAK IN protocols, all three (VW) diesels used less than 1/2 L After break in, the oil consumption rates are all more like 1/2 L for 30,000 miles OCI's. Most gasser folks are used to being told 1 L/1 qt consumption per 1,000 miles is normal.
I for one would find that totally unacceptable in a diesel. I find that totally unacceptable in a gasser, which TMI is another good reason to not buy a gasser. In fact, (again TMI) one of the reasons why i change oil so frequently on the 04 Civic gasser is in 20,000 miles it uses 1/2 to 3/4 qt. Rather than add, it makes just as much sense to change @ 20,000 miles. (2.75 qt sump?)
I've been doing a little automotive $oul $earching lately with the lease on my current 2011 BMW 328xi set to expire at the end of September 2014. I've decided I'm going to buy as opposed to lease the next time around. I'll be looking to pay significantly less (over all & monthly). I realize that by doing this I'm going to have to make some concessions with regards to some features that I've grown to like on my BMW. Specifically all wheel drive (which I like), Bi-Xenon adaptive head lights (which I love), & navigation (which is nice, but I rarely use).
My next car MUST have an automatic transmission & be comfortable for my daily commute. 65 miles per day round trip, 6 days a week. I want comfortable, but not mushy & lifeless. Durability & reliability are a must. I plan on keeping my next car for the better part of 10 years & 200,000 miles.
Ruking & Gagrice. Do your "thing" & tell me why I should buy a Volkswagen Jetta TDI Premium over a Honda Civic EX-L. #1 on my list is the Jettas 100 ft lb of torque advantage. Keep in mind I've got 3 other Hondas in my garage/driveway. My beloved 2001 Prelude Type SH (150K miles), my wife's 2011 Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation (42K miles), & my 160 CC lawn mower;). I'm serious here & not at all trying to be sarcastic or play devils advocate.
Thanks in advance
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
If I were you I would go and drive the Mercedes GLK250 Bluetec. I have no doubt a person can get high 30s MPG with that vehicle and have 369 ft lbs of torque. And they are more comfy than the X5 I drove. And a lot less money. With the GLK you get AWD good mileage and nice handling and performance. The proof is in the driving. I like taut handling and comfort. Not many vehicles offer both. Test driving is free, falling in love with a vehicle will cost you.
I don't like Honda or their dealers so am not the one to advise there. I did like the early 1980s Prelude and CRX.
If AWD is important, I would buy a Subaru. I think they have the corner on that market until VW offers the AllTrack TDI. Then we will see more choices.
You are right Steve. I just read up on the Mazda 6 TD delay until "late" next spring. Darn, I was really looking forward to test driving one.
This is not the first delay with the Mazda diesel. Here in C&D from 2011.
On the diesel side, Mazda has pulled off an even more impressive feat. The 2.2-liter Sky-D (again, other sizes are likely to follow) boosts fuel economy by 20 percent over the current, 2.2-liter diesel and meets Euro 6 and U.S. Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions standards without using any NOx aftertreatment such as urea injection. You catch that? It meets U.S. emissions standards. That’s because Mazda is planning to bring this engine here sometime in 2012.
You can bet the EPA does not take the word of the automakers on diesel options. My bet is they run them through the mill. Just my speculation as they only test 15% of new models.
If I had a 65 mile RT commute, I would look seriously at the Nissan Leaf or some other EV. If you can plug in at work and get more free miles why not. And you can get one in the $20ks with the $7500 tax credit.
First off, I would try to go from (10 for example) to a so called "top 5". The reason for that is so you can throw out one to two ringers, anomalies, outliers. The concept here is this drill will in effect get you to statistically make sure you are choosing from the so called "sweet spot", Or middle most. The good part is that you are further defining parameters like 20,000 miles per year (10 years) 200,000 miles. It also tends to get you to focus on what is important to you.
Like can be a very interesting parameter. I am a tad hesitant in the like department as likes can be and ARE different. Likes are as valid as anyone else's. Because it is YOUR nickel, yours are really the ones that count.
So for example it is a no brainer to me to rank order the two you have set your sights on. But then again to me given that competitive segment, compact to midsize sedan?, why would you not see if the Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, etc. products might be a good fit.
Another is VW would make your selection almost bewildering, if you added the Golf, Passat, to the Jetta.
This is independent of VW but (just so happens they normally offer it) after you make your best deal and are cleared for ZERO down and ZERO percentage......
Another is the Leaf has come down from a shade under 40k. (not that it was ever worth that) The additional difficulty is that you need to make sure you can get a SOLID per mile driven (fuel equivalent) electricity.
Comments
Coming soon to a theatre near you - pay by the mile to drive.
Been home a week and drove the car one time a mile to the grocery store. Nice being back on the bikes. :-)
Diesel-engine designers have long grappled with a dilemma: Reducing emissions meant either cutting efficiency or adding expensive equipment. With the Skyactiv-D, Mazda engineers decreased pollution, boosted mileage, and eliminated the cost of exhaust after-treatments by building the world’s lowest-compression diesel engine. They then added two turbochargers and a capacitor-based regenerative braking system. When it arrives in U.S. showrooms late this year, the Skyactiv-D–equipped Mazda 6 should deliver approximately 44 highway mpg while meeting strict emission standards, proving that diesel engines have many miles left in them.
SMART TURBOCHARGER
A two-stage turbocharging system contains a small turbine that boosts low-end torque, as well as a larger turbocharger that increases high-end horsepower. An electronic controller runs the turbochargers, tuning performance to conditions.
LIGHTWEIGHT COMPONENTS
The Skyactiv-D’s engine overhaul has a side benefit: Engineers were able to build the engine with lighter, lower-friction components, including 25-percent lighter pistons and an aluminum cylinder block that trims 55 pounds.
LOW COMPRESSION RATIO
Diesel engines ignite fuel by combining it with air and compressing it to extremely high pressure. Yet compared to that of gasoline, the high pressure and temperature of diesel combustion produce more smog-forming nitrogen oxides and sooty particulate matter. To meet pollution standards, modern clean diesels delay combustion until the piston begins its descent—but that reduces power and efficiency. Mazda’s solution: new fuel injectors and exhaust valves that allowed engineers to lower the compression ratio from 16.3:1 to 14.0:1.
NO EXHAUST TREATMENTS
Before exhaust even enters the tailpipe, the engine’s low compression ratio cuts emissions of nitrogen oxides and other pollutants enough to meet present (and future) standards both in Europe and the U.S. As a result, the Mazda6 does away with expensive urea tanks (which drivers have to refill every 10,000 miles or so) that many diesels use to neutralize emissions.
You are probably closer to the truth than you realize. California is not called the golden state for nothing. It is because nothing our state government does is truly Green. Everything is done with a hidden agenda. How green is it to trash 1000s of commercial vehicles while they still have 100s or 1000s of miles left in them??? How green is it shutting down nukes and replacing the electricity with coal generated power from UT and AZ. How smart is it forcing the price of electricity up and then giving the poor help to pay their high electric bills. We are very frugal and half of August was our first heat spell. We ran our AC units just during the hottest part of the day to keep us at about 81 degrees. Then opened up the house as soon as it dropped below 80 outside. I just got the largest electric bill I have had over the last 7 years. I average $95 per month. This last month was $275. What would that do to someone on a budget? Our kids in Indiana have been running AC day and night this hot summer there. The biggest bill was $150. And it was hotter there than here.
PS
I will be driving the Touareg more than the Sequoia for sure. And we take it shopping rather than the PU truck. Fun to drive. The truck gets the local 3 mile trips.
If you're within ~50 miles of the coast, you're already getting hit with radioactive "spray" from Fukushima. (Ventura County Reporter, via ENENews.com)
2.0.12345 VAPORWARE change two .012345. Might all be good reasons why the Japanese oems have announced "wedding plans" and @ least Honda (twice now) and Mazda, have had COLD feet. Dodge has taken a scheduling punt on the Jeep TDI's.
We all look forward to your 100,000 miles take on your diesel ( NEW, by then OLD) I would swag a minimum of 6 years from now !
Don't believe that, Gary.
Having worked for a software company that outsources IT functions, a majority of the engineers I've worked with from India were never trained to think creatively(outside the box).
Very few ever impressed me vs their American counterparts.
Just sayin'...
Man oh man, you can't even MAKE this CRAP up ! Now they are trying to further muck things up by flying greater than 10% ethanol up the figurative, literal and proverbial flag pole. The operative issue is that it took a LONG time and monies to beef up and solve the unintended consequences to using less than 10% ethanol in RUG/PUG. AAA estimates 95% + of the passenger vehicle fleet are NOT ready for anything over 10% ethanol. So does anyone thing there will be NO unintended consequences?
SEATTLE -- On March 20, 2013, the Department of Biotechnology (DBT) of India, its Biotechnology Industry Research Assistance Council (BIRAC), and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation launched Grand Challenges India. Through this partnership, the government and the foundation will co-fund projects that aim to harness Indian innovation and research, and direct scientific discovery to develop affordable, sustainable solutions that improve health in India and around the world.
There must be a good reason they are spending our tax dollars in other countries instead of the USA. I look at the kids around our high schools and it all becomes clear. There are exceptional kids in the USA. Not as many as we need.
What?
Another would be that most of the (early to even later US) educational systems are designed to steer most US kids AWAY from the courses necessary for careers, such as science, engineering and the medical field. When the systems emphasize being "rappers", entertainers, sports, political hacking, etc, etc, etc. it can hardly be a surprise that (for say) inner city kids don't seem to pick, let alone be picked for engineering or the medical fields. A non pc way to say this: "GEEKDOM" is totally vilified. The G word should have the same significance as the N word.
One relative entered practice last year @ age 29 (extended adolescence if one will- once upon a time 11 years too long) Another relative will enter practice this year @ age 28.5 years. Another took a further specialization. He will be ready to "hang his shingle" @ age 34.5 years old. Then, they ALL face the specter of OBAMA CARE ! Massive changes will literally be measured in decades, if not generations.
THEN, (as no good deed goes unpunished) most have student loans to repay.
The emphasis in CA public schools is multiculturalism and diversity. Peace on earth and global warming. The average kid coming out of our school system believe they can get rich programming video games or website design. If they are focused on their future at all. The top private schools today are $50k per year. And preference is given to foreign exchange students that pay full fare. 200,000+ Chinese students entered our colleges and Universities last year. A kid that followed the advice in our public schools, would be lucky to get a scholarship or even admitted to a top school. More than likely they will be sucked into a specialty school that gets them in debt with a promise of a great job designing ladies clothes. As a country we are failing our young people. Parents are to blame as well.
The chances of an engineer surpassing the German designs for diesel engines at our auto makers is close to ZERO. If the Japanese and Koreans cannot do it, how are we supposed to compete?
Diesels are very popular where there is tax incentive to make gas more expensive as it is seen as the "commercial" fuel. In the EU and many other parts of the world the high gas tax drives the use of diesel or LPG etc... fuel vehicles. Just not here.
I do tons of highway miles a year, I might consider a diesel for my next purchase. If I can get the numbers to add up. But I would keep a gas car for use when the temp really drops.
Of course, the "OLD" administration (Bush) is responsible for that "Corny addition" to RUG/PUG, aka ethanol. The use of foodstuffs for fuel in light of almost unimaginable DOMESTIC energy reserves approaches INSANITY, if rationality is part of the argument. The major rational was to have LESS dependence on FOREIGN OIL !!! Any percentage (ethanol) use will consume MORE product, yield less mpg, more pollutive and @ progressively higher cost per mile driven, fuel. Keep in mind that BIODIESEL can be" manufactured from literally a plethora of sources , a lot of them WASTE streams !?
It would be the HEIGHT of naive to say that former OIL CEO's like Bush & Cheney et al. were NOT privy to the information contained in that BAG (overwhelming energy abundance) . It would approach the complete and utter chutzpah of the ( Clinton through) then UN Ambassador RICE reciting the BAD VIDEO cause for the Benghazi Al Qaida "decimated event".
So it is as you would imply, there are various PUNISHMENT's (different levels and severities) for using less, albeit economic.
I cannot imagine you not coming out ahead with a diesel equivalent vehicle over 3 years, 7 years or 10+ years. The cost difference is easily recouped with fuel savings and at resale time. I worked with a guy in Alaska that lives in South Dakota. He has owned an F250 diesel since 1999. He only runs B20 from the Farm Co-op. I asked about gelling. Said never has happened. Most places add D1 in the cold months to avoid gelling. If you leave a diesel out in the cold with summer diesel then expect it to run fine you may have a problem with gelling. Kind of like leaving Unleaded gas in your lawnmower over the Winter. I will say buying a Cruze diesel vs the eco gas model may be a marginal. Of course the driving experience would be marginal with the gas version. The difference between 12 seconds to 60 MPH in the gasser vs 8 seconds in the diesel. Fuelly has several Cruze diesel owners already posting. Most are in the 45 MPG combined range. The Gas Cruze eco are getting 33 MPG.
for the diesel Cruze to be equal to our $4 gas, the price would have to be $5.51 per gallon. I don't see that much difference ever happening. 35 cents more is nothing. For me in the Touareg TDI vs my Sequoia the price of diesel will have to reach $6.68 per gallon vs our current $4 RUG.
With the EPA experimenting in CA with new feedstock for Ethanol, look out for your gassers. The Feds will not accept any responsibility for engine damage.
Does steak cost more than hamburger? Silly question. You get what you pay for. The diesel option is worth more than the gas engine. Why shouldn't it cost you more. Of course we have hashed this every way you can imagine. If a person wants a gas slug I would not talk them out of it. In fact I never have suggested a diesel to anyone looking at new cars. I don't want to hear the whining when they put gas in their diesel tank. Buying a diesel is for those with superior intelligence that can tell the difference when they go to the gas station. That can use a calculator to determine if it will save them money in the long run. The rest get what they deserve.
LOVE IT!!! Truer words have never been spoken here..and there have been some doozies..
Are gas engines getting better? Yes, but so are the diesels. With the low end torque and driving a substantial car, I don't feel like I'm being penalized for driving the TDI. The hybrid and low MPG gas options are generally lighter cars, that costs more and or don't have anywhere near the build quality and overall performance.
I do loose a couple MPG during the winter, but it's not that big of a deal. I'm really hoping Mazda brings the new Diesel 6 in as a Wagon.
So for example, the VW Touareg has the supercharged/hybrid LIKE for LIKE model. The thing literally CAN go like STINK. EPA H is something like 24 mpg? I suspect the ones (outlier) that do own it do not go to the stink portion.
Since not too many folks have it. ALL two of them on fully.com lists 20, 20.6 mpg respectively. This is anywhere 1.5 to 3 mpg BETTER than the more plentiful gasser (PUG) VW Touareg versions.
I just fueled (snap shot but in range of normal and SOS DD trips) the VW TDI after getting it back from the dealer's 3rd service (they normally excessively idle it) I kept it higher than the normal 85 mph in the slow lane, to make sure the tire rotation was correctly done. (no drift, neutral tracking, no shaking, etc) It posted 31 mpg. My swag: keeping it at the (optimized) 81 mph would probably post more like 33 mpg. H EPA is 28 mpg.
Now I could halfway go along with PART of the gasser owners argument if one will have a ZERO to way less need for doing mileage in the near future, say 5 years. But really that has NEVER been the case for me.
So for example, if one has to do 100,000 miles over XYZ time period; say 6 to 10 years, the VW T should post usage of 4,926 gals (20.3 mpg hybrid), 5,479 gals (18.25 mpg PUG ) 3,226 gals (31 mpg ULSD) !
Most folks do understand the hybrids (like models) cost more than gassers. In the Touareg's case, $15k+ more than diesel. Diesels cost $3,500 higher than gassers. (43,945) So if the gasser use 2,253 gals MORE than diesels @ $4 per gal, is spending $3.500 to keep from spending 9,012 a better or worse deal (5,512 savings) ? Diesel higher resale is also involved.
I think most folks know what is decided if 95% + passenger vehicle ownership being GASSERS are any indication.
This is not to say I have been unaffected. When I bought the TLC (almost 20 years ago) I was aware the ww markets had TDI's and could get 25 mpg. So really the same question or question remains unchanged: for 200,000 miles would I rather use 13,333 gals @ 15 mpg or 8,000 gals @ 25 mpg diesel?(67% more) @ today's prices ($4 per gal) $21,332 SAVINGS are even more dramatic.
Also, those "unfilled" jobs are largely bunk, a number produced to create more H1Bs (cheap labor). Living in a tech area, I know how it works. Employers post non-existent positions which go unfilled, then some coddled should-be-hanged suits whine about needing more offshore work to fill the gap. They get it, then hire only the newbies, who gladly settle for lower standards (compensation, working conditions) than first world workers. Race to the bottom, globalization defined.
"Superior engineers"? More like cost savings so the already coddled and irresponsible top few can increase already undeserved profit margins. Maybe it will start trickling down soon. Economic traitors.
Sadly, in Florida - a second world country , diesel was usually more than premium, sometimes much more. Weird how it varies from area to area.
Biotech and mechanical engineering are still very different, too.
Don't tell me Obama and Clinton lied to US? My guess is every US engineer with half brain coming out of college gets a job that pays above the median income. I will agree [non-permissible content removed] companies like Apple and Microsoft offer less to push their foreign hire agenda. There are 1000s of companies that are actively looking for engineers. Some like the D3 should be if they plan to compete with the Foreign Automakers.
I had a rental X5 for a few days last week (before exchanging it back for the car I reserved). This is a car that NEEDS diesel and maybe should have it as a mandatory engine.
It is a rocket with the diesel. I think it has the same 6.9 Second 0-60 as the Touareg TDI. Great for merging into our 75 MPH Interstate traffic flow. Especially with our uphill ramps that work a small gas engine to death. Even V8s like the one in my Sequoia.
Biotech and mechanical engineering are still very different, too.
For sure. The need is there for both types. What is NOT needed are more PHDs in Philosophy or Humanities. And you don't need any college to become a website designer. Our friend started doing them for friends. When her husband took an IT job in Michigan she got hired right away by Chrysler. Making far more than they were here in San Diego. He was one of the ones that Apple offered less than the cost of living to relocate to Silicon Valley. He turned them down and got the job in Michigan paying way more.
I just helped in the purchase of a car. 2012 Ford Focus SE hatch. 25000 or so miles. Auto, power locks, windows etc....Cute little silver car. $14000 with the ESP 100000 mile plan. The dealership had 34 used focuses (foki?) and wanted to deal. With $3000 down, and a surprise donation($1000- step daughter # 2) the monthly payment was less than $200. Great for a young person on a budget.
Would she have paid more for a better stereo, fancy wheels or a sunroof?? In a flash. That is why I was there.
Pay a penny extra for a diesel? Nope. 30 mpg will suit her just fine.
The dealership also had several low mile Jettas. Gassers were about $15000....the two diesels were quite a bit more.
For the X5, absolutely silly with a 6cyl gas. It has to work hard at times, to the point where the mileage is probably only marginally better than the V8. These heavier vehicles are what diesels were made for.
I also spent 4 days in the V6 gas E, probably putting 800 miles or more on it. Was good for a back to back comparison with my Bluetec, which I drove earlier today. I'll admit the gas is a little smoother in some situations, and doesn't have what feels like turbo lag under some acceleration conditions. The mileage is also OK - easy to hit 30 on the highway,and low 20s in town. But, diesel highway mpg will probably be 20% better - maybe more, and the fuel cost here is the same or cheaper. Resale will probably be better too. It's not as clear a choice as in a SUV, but there are still positives.
The Toureg TDI is a MONSTER. It's nor really comparable to anything. It is expensive, so I think folks who buy it simply have an appreciation for torque. ;-)
It replaced a Sequoia that was a lot bigger. I think we can live with the smaller size. Just pack better is all. ;-)
Weight wise the Touareg is about as heavy. And is tow rated for more. It is at least a couple seconds faster to 60 MPH and much faster in the 30-80 range that I used most entering our freeways. Expensive is a relative thing. I love using VW's money for free. And the were really dealing the end of July on the Touaregs.
By the way there are about 6 vehicles that most shoppers would consider when looking for a diesel SUV. And the Touareg is the cheapest of the bunch. Car and Driver rated 5 diesel SUVs and the Touareg TDI Lux the best over all. Here is the case where you get the best for less.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-summit-ecodiese- l-4x4-vs-2013-volkswagen-touareg-tdi-2013-mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec-4matic-201- 3-porsche-cayenne-diesel-2013-bmw-x5-xdrive35d-final-scoring-performance-data-an- d-complete-specs-page-7
The (VW) Jetta's 03/09 TDI's normally post 48-52 mpg, 38-42 mpg. Noteworthy (to me): the COMMUTE range is in the context of a 27 miles one way (5) daily commute that takes between 45 mins (we mostly WISH) to as high as 1.75 hours. A normal day would be 1 hour each way or 27 mph. To state the RANGE of mph is = 36 mph to 15.43 mph. Another noteworthy thing is multiple drivers.
One TMI for the 09 TDI was the IRS tax CREDIT for $1500. The exact title escapes me at this writing.
I like the 406 # ft of torque. I have only done like 3 tanks in commute traffic, but it posts 31-33 mpg. The neatest thing about this is cars at the six follow WAY behind as the 8 speed auto transmission almost RADICALLY decreases the need to use the brakes. So it is very hard (I swag) to really judge when I am slowing down and/or sometimes speeding up. This is also true in the mountains during my posts of SOS DD. The conditions are of course radically different again. However, it posts virtually the same mpg! (applies to the Jetta's also) Needless to say, I'd rather be going those speeds !!!!
A TMI about the Touareg: the tires are "shredding" at app 14,000 miles per 1/32nd in. I am swaging the 3 psi over (oem highway recommendation) the OEM recommend PSI contributes.
I would agree with the C&D article about the Touareg TDI
Passat - I see about 80% TDI on the road
Golf/GTI - There is definitely a mix of about 60% GTI vs. 40% Golf TDI. I know these are technically 2 different models, but every VW hatch seems to be either or. Can't remember the last time I saw a golf gasser.
Jetta - I definitely see about 70% "2.5 SE" gasser models, 25% TDI, & just 5% Hybrids (of which I've seen 6 this weekend).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I actually still like the platform (2 door even) even after 39 years +. As I recall it came out in 1974. I bought a Rabbit in 1978.
There is another choice. The 2014 BMW 328d. It has almost identical specs to the new VW EA288 2.0 in the upcoming VW Golf GTD.
The BMW has 180 hp and 280 lb ft, and the Golf has just 4 more HP.
Now, If VW puts the new EA288 2.0 TD in the 2015 Passat, then it gets on the short list for a test drive as well. I would rather have a Passat than the Golf.
I'me Blessed
For me, your experiences are a triple whammy inspiration !
The first whammy is mileage @ 269,000 miles ! The second is no apparent change from the mpg you have been getting. Third, (yippee for) no apparent PD (pump duse) camshaft issues !!
Swagged here , on the diesel thread.
Because they have NOT yet released it on the US market, in the worst case, they can pull the plug on the TDI project. The secondary principle here: an oz of prevention is worth a # of CURE. This would be true especially if the cost of cure/s makes the sales of this crop of diesels unprofitable. The reconfiguration of 4,000 units to "other than diesel options" is an interesting indicator.
If the OZ Mazda posting are true, they have to find a way to go from a 1,500 miles oem recommended OCI to a minimum of 10,000 miles OCI. If they are consuming oil, they have to find a way to get that down to almost NONE per 10,000 miles. But logic would probably include that if a OCI is needed recommended @ 1,500 miles, oil consumption is probably an issue.
As a comparison with slightly to aggressive BREAK IN protocols, all three (VW) diesels used less than 1/2 L After break in, the oil consumption rates are all more like 1/2 L for 30,000 miles OCI's. Most gasser folks are used to being told 1 L/1 qt consumption per 1,000 miles is normal.
I for one would find that totally unacceptable in a diesel. I find that totally unacceptable in a gasser, which TMI is another good reason to not buy a gasser. In fact, (again TMI) one of the reasons why i change oil so frequently on the 04 Civic gasser is in 20,000 miles it uses 1/2 to 3/4 qt. Rather than add, it makes just as much sense to change @ 20,000 miles. (2.75 qt sump?)
My next car MUST have an automatic transmission & be comfortable for my daily commute. 65 miles per day round trip, 6 days a week. I want comfortable, but not mushy & lifeless. Durability & reliability are a must. I plan on keeping my next car for the better part of 10 years & 200,000 miles.
Ruking & Gagrice. Do your "thing" & tell me why I should buy a Volkswagen Jetta TDI Premium over a Honda Civic EX-L. #1 on my list is the Jettas 100 ft lb of torque advantage. Keep in mind I've got 3 other Hondas in my garage/driveway. My beloved 2001 Prelude Type SH (150K miles), my wife's 2011 Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation (42K miles), & my 160 CC lawn mower;). I'm serious here & not at all trying to be sarcastic or play devils advocate.
Thanks in advance
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I don't like Honda or their dealers so am not the one to advise there. I did like the early 1980s Prelude and CRX.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
This is not the first delay with the Mazda diesel. Here in C&D from 2011.
On the diesel side, Mazda has pulled off an even more impressive feat. The 2.2-liter Sky-D (again, other sizes are likely to follow) boosts fuel economy by 20 percent over the current, 2.2-liter diesel and meets Euro 6 and U.S. Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions standards without using any NOx aftertreatment such as urea injection. You catch that? It meets U.S. emissions standards. That’s because Mazda is planning to bring this engine here sometime in 2012.
You can bet the EPA does not take the word of the automakers on diesel options. My bet is they run them through the mill. Just my speculation as they only test 15% of new models.
Like can be a very interesting parameter. I am a tad hesitant in the like department as likes can be and ARE different. Likes are as valid as anyone else's. Because it is YOUR nickel, yours are really the ones that count.
So for example it is a no brainer to me to rank order the two you have set your sights on. But then again to me given that competitive segment, compact to midsize sedan?, why would you not see if the Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, etc. products might be a good fit.
Another is VW would make your selection almost bewildering, if you added the Golf, Passat, to the Jetta.
This is independent of VW but (just so happens they normally offer it) after you make your best deal and are cleared for ZERO down and ZERO percentage......