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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Comments
The TDI reads out the miles remaining on the tank, and the value updates just about constantly based on the mileage being displayed.
The 14 Passat has a stated oem capacity of 18.5 gals. It should then beg the question, why haven't you taken it (down) to or close to 18.5 gals? I think the fact that you probably haven't, gives credence to my point. I would stand corrected, of course if that IS your normal practice.
Not quite sure what point you are making. My point is that there are no mental gymnastics at all, the car calculates the range. This range number does not include a small amount of reserve in the tank.
Very simply the "reserve" number, after the low fuel lamp lights or buzzer goes off is 18.5 gal - MINUS what you actually refuel it with, say 16.5 or for this example 2 gals. It is pretty amazing with all this "technology" that folks STILL run out of fuel !?
Got to Taos today. This is a good part of the country for diesel prices - the differential is more like .30 cents a gallon instead of fifty cents. Regular was running $3.49 and diesel was $3.79 lots of places. Cheap. :-)
I saw diesel for 3.99 and RUG for 4.07 at a Chevron today - because the station charges an insane 20 cents/gallon premium for using a credit card, and no surcharge for diesel.
Local (SOS/DD) prices for RUG $3.89, PUG $4.09 and I filled ULSD @ $3.91. for 33.3 mpg. (317miles 9.5 gal)
The upgrade portion of the trip was interesting in that even @ 8:22 pm, the 4 lane highways were "elbow to elbow" bumper to bumper. Construction conditions made access even tighter for a good portion of the way and in a few places. Having to go through several city's areas choke points were a bit tedious also.
Curiously the 2.1 L T TDI/7 speed A/T posted 38.2 mpg. (computer screen)
In the mountain portions after passing a few clusters of cars, I was literally the only vehicle for certain zones (there were a few oncoming vehicles. So there is no doubt in my mind that it would have posted more like 38 mpg on the upgrade portion, if I didn't enjoy so much the mountain portions.
Incidently there were 3 folks in the vehicle and the cargo portions STUFFED to the gills.
I hope folks are enjoying the weekend.
Indiana has the highest priced gas and diesel of any place outside CA we have been. I got here with 33.4 MPG showing on the computer. We had traveled 310 miles along with 545 miles left on the tank. Will go back to KY during our stay for $3.73 diesel.
RUG $3.99 diesel $4.29 at the Shell near our hotel. The Shell diesel we are using now from Jonesboro Arkansas was $3.67. That was the cheapest of the trip. We have seen RUG as low as $3.39 along the way. To keep it in perspective. If I was driving the old Sequoia, our cost for gas on just the first 648 mile leg would be $33 more. That is buying the cheapest no name RUG vs the most expensive diesel we have bought. No way I will ever go back to a gasser.
Some of the "tier 1" brands have slid diesel under midrange here in NJ... my Hess station of choice:
87 - $3.449
89 - $3.689
93 - $3.849
D2 - $3.679
and I would expect D2 to get even closer to 87 for the July 4th long weekend.
And the station nearest my sister, a Shell in Reynoldsburg (east of Columbus) OH...
87 - $3.919
89 - $4.129
93 - $4.349
D2 - $3.899
Diesel clearly the better buy in central Ohio at the moment...
(SOS/DD) Downgrade posted 40.5 mpg (243 miles 6 gal). There were a lot of construction areas and delays, both in the mountains and the flats. After a few delays , (down out of the mountains) for roughly 110 miles the (computer screen) posted 45.6 mpg. I might have passed 3 cars on the way down (yippee) and basically rolled down the hills. In the flats, LONG to LONGER highway construction delays and highway flow nipped away at mpg. Interesting anecdotal results for a vehicle rated @ 33 mpg EPA H.
What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
How about some inventory? Now I'm not sure if this is a case of dealers not ordering a big inventory of TDI Passats, VW producing THAT much more TSI (gassers), or the overwhelming demand for the Passat TDI, but I'm checking dealers' inventories (which I understand isn't 100% accurate) and don't see too many TDIs in stock. They've got literally between 2 and 4 TDI Passats and between 12 & 80 Gassers.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I think if you mean just the VW brand, they really seem to have the pulse of the balance between their (own internal) profitability (goals) and demand and sales goals for VW diesels: both over all (23%) and specific (i.e., say 34% Passat TDI) . Probably a component of (increased) customer satisfaction would be that one variable in which VW works on incremental increases in reliability and durability, by keeping the current generation longer (7 years). So it remains to be seen how a faster cycle (5 years with 3 year refresh cycle ) is managed to both address your posted issue AND BETTER to INCREASING levels of reliability and durability. VW has had a HARD time shaking the low reliability and durability reputations.
http://m.autoblog.com/2014/05/31/vw-accelerate-us-model-rollout/?post=1&icid=autoblog_river_article
I think if you mean OTHER than the VW brand, there SEEMS to be both high entry levels to diesel entry and relative LACK of demand/s, given the price premiums. In other words, high levels of risk for low reward to possible loss/es.
So for example, the MB GLK model line addresses this issue by making the GLK 250 B/T (T TDI) slightly cheaper than the GLK 350. (gasser) At this posting I do not know the % of diesels.
WAY off topic, but might qualify for an AHHHHH??? diesel moment: I just got back from an SOS/DD trek, both as a passenger AND in a NON diesel (rental late model Chevrolet Impala). A relative who is used to going up in any one of 4 diesels with me (us) and Acura MDX looked at me and said well, it won't be what you are used to. After a stint driving a leg, the comment was made "I had to whip those squirrels to wake em up".
@ruking1
I have no doubt it is NOT VW Corporate that is holding back. I meant the dealers in my area just don't seem to carry the TDI inventory. I'm sure it is as you say for lack of demand & the price premium of the car itself and the higher cost of diesel fuel compared to a 1.8 which uses regular.
BMW has some sweet incentives on their 328xd.
$1,250 Bonus Cash
$1,000 Eco Credit
$1,000 Ultimate Drive Event Bonus (if I sign up & attend)
$500 BMWCCA rebate (I'm currently a member in good standing)
$3,750 is a nice chunk of change:) I'm sure the low option car I'd be looking for doesn't exist.
Alpine White
Black Leatherette
Lighting Package
Heated Front Seats
HK Radio Upgrade
$43,800 MSRP
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I think then, it would make sense if you are leaning toward a VW diesel, to have the local VW dealer query the (US wide) inventory system with YOUR specifics in mind. So now, you would have the option to work with the local dealer to get your specifics or deal with the actual dealer that had what you want. Not that you or I would care, but then they would trade the TDI they have, with the dealer holding what you want and at most charge a fee. Additionally, if there are still uncommitted cars in the logistics pipeline, you might be able to snag one FOB (fresh off the boat) and get it directed to where ever.
Otherwise I would agree, $3750 off the BMW top is indeed sweet, again, if you are so inclined @ this posting.
@ruking1
Thanks as always for your input. I'm ready to start test driving (I just need to find the time to do it). The lease is up on my BMW at the end of September. I'm going to shoot to get my next car Labor Day weekend. The Passat TDI is going to be my 1st stop.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Hey, take a trip to Disneyland and drive a TDI back. Galpin VW here in the San Fernando Valley (just north of LA) had about 20 in stock when we bought ours - about half of them were SEL.
EDIT: They even had a rare one - the maroon color. Beautiful, but the wife was rear ended in a deep maroon car and didn't want another.
@stevedebi
Ha! The TDI inventory isn't THAT scarce. Besides, I work 6 days per week, so a flight and drive back DEFINITELY wouldn't work. Funny you mention about the SEL. Most of the dealers' inventory that I've seen shows between 2 & 3 (of the 4 - 5 TDIs) as SEL models with sticker prices north of $31K.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Just a snapshot: 38 mpg (EPA 24 C/33 H, MB GLK 250 B/T)
filled (D2@ $4.09) this morning. "around the home area typical driving" (339 miles, 8.9 gal/15.6).
No real attempt @ "hyper miling". I am still in the break in phase, so I hammer it every chance I get. (typically @ least 75% of red line, to avoid long steady rpm and to put proper loads on the engine on acceleration /deceleration ) @ 38 mpg the range is theoretically 593 miles. For planning purposes, range is more like 515 miles. (33 x 15.6) Again, probably the easiest is just to look to fill when the low fuel buzzer/lamp goes off. That would seem a good balance between range, safety and emphasis toward less frequent fills. All the sensors, computers and design safety features would be functioning as designed.
Other than the (typical) snapshot, SLOW news diesel day !
Thanks for sharing
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
One of the guys in the local TDI community has been hosting "local" GTG's for years, has been/is hosting a 3 day GTG this weekend, Sunday, today being the last day. Normally at these things, he is running his own business (not related to autos) and looks in periodically to make sure things are going well, eat food or networking. He and I both met each other at a GTG years earlier when both of us had timing belts and water pumps changed @ 100,000 miles on almost literally identical 03 Jetta TDI's.
FF to Sat and I did a full look at his now 250,000 miles car (vs mine @ 187,000 miles).
At this point it is just plain TMI to cover all mods he has made to it !!! BUT some highlights: it is going STRONG. Normally in 50 % city driving, he posts more like 55 mpg!! This even with both hp and torque that dwarfs mine ! Normal gasser expectations are way LESS mpg, given hp/torque UPGRADES.
Even with mods, he has a Scan gauge that allows him to easily get 62 mpg with a best tank @ 65 mpg on the way to LA LA Land with the family of 4 and luggage ! With a 14.5 gal tank, that puts his range @ 942 miles !!! ????
Normally in 50 % city driving, he posts more like 55 mpg!! This even with both hp and torque (massive clutch upgrade) that dwarfs my stock 03 Jetta TDI !
So the coolest thing about these is the TDI camaraderie and all things diesel. Attendance draws folks from easily 6 western states. Vendors come in from where they are based. We have even had (in the past) one internet vendor come in from the Massachusetts area @ a past GTG.
FYI:
I just heard in passing that FIAT holds the developmental patents for the CR (common rail ) (other also) diesels ! ? Most other oems pay FIAT a licensing fee for diesels they build. Suffice to say they are the behind the scenes diesel innovator and leader.
Here is one iteration. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/chicago-auto-show/news-fiat-factoid-about-2014-chevy-cruze-diesel
Not that this is related to diesels but I also had a pretty long conversation with a fellow diesel owner who literally drank the Prius (former owner) kool aid. That was until he got a 2006 VW Jetta TDI. His way of driving posted 41 mpg (MAX) His take for folks who are more enthusiastic about driving is Prius drivers either put up with a (grossly) inferior handling car, don't care, or are literally clueless about that portion in pursuit of mpg nirvana. He is WAY happy to get better mpg even as he literally hammers his diesel. One can also hammer a Prius also. Not surprisingly mpg drops off dramatically.
62 mpg? I'd have to drive his car to believe that.
Given my set of variables and wants/needs, I continue to be more than happy with the 50 mpg (vs his 55 mpg) !! (range 48 to 52) Even @ this late stage 12 my's and 187,000 miles, I am still hesitant to change the reliability & durability equation. My best tank full was actually 62 mpg. (road trip) Do I do this a lot? Absolutely not !! It really for me is a safety hazard, it puts me to literal sleep. I have done this a lot, but @ 75 mph with an occasional acceleration to 85 mph it is effortless to get 59 mpg for a tank (03 Jetta TDI 12.1 gal 714 miles actual (low fuel lamp buzzer goes off)/14.5 , 855 miles possible range)
Today I watched a MK IV Golf, bought used get 27 dings and paint chips repaired. (talk about watching paint dry) There was a clutch upgrade, then a timing belt and water pump change and nozzle upgrade. Today was the more custom tuning. It is not my car but I am real curious to hear the SOTP's postings. The limiting factor is a need for a soft 500 mile clutch break in period.
I would have to wait for the emissions standards to be raised much higher. I like a torquey engine, and the extra mechanical noise doesn't bother me much. But surely everybody has been stuck behind one of those stinking diesels and gagged on the black cloud of carcinogenic smoke. I would have to become a selfish person with no conscience to do that to the people behind me. I suspect that diesel drivers are former smokers who have been forced to stop smoking in public and have found a new way to poison the air that other people breathe.
And you chose this forum because?
Because that's what it would take for the poster to buy a diesel car?
Have to admit I took an illegal shortcut through a gas station parking lot yesterday (my ruse was that I was supposedly checking the pump price since I couldn't see the big sign). That enabled me to get in front of a stinkpot diesel pickup that was pulling a box trailer and spitting out black puffs.
I don't mind the VWs; have yet to notice one belching out oil fumes. But some enforcement on the stinkpot pickups? That would be nice to see - red tag them.
TROLL!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I am ok with the OP waiting.
Municipalities and states acknowledge that most (PVF) excess pollution is caused by app 5% (outliers) of the passenger vehicle fleet . In fact, ANYONE can report what they see/perceive as a "gross polluter" in ANY number of ways !
So if 95% of the passenger vehicle fleet are gassers, that leaves less than 5% being diesels of which 50% of these are diesel (PVF) trucks." FAR more of the population of "gross polluters" are indeed GASSERS than diesels AND gasser gross polluters emit far more than diesel gross polluters.
So using 100 vehicles, the numbers/ratio breakdown to 95 gassers/gasser hybrids vs 5/2=2.5 diesels, x 5 % that would be 4.75 gassers and (.25/2)= .125 diesels, gasser gross polluters are app 38 TIMES greater.
Anybody (you/op) can all run the numbers on say CA with 24 M registered passenger vehicles. For 2011 NHSTA lists app 257.5 M registered vehicles so CA has roughly 9.3% of the US PVF.
But I swag the issue/s is/are more about attitudes than about realities.
We have also been over the ppm sulfur content of gassers (30 to 90 ppm) vs diesel (15 ppm, but nominally delivered @ 5 to 10 ppm) So pollution of gassers are structurally 2 times (to 18 TIMES) GREATER.
So for example, keep in mind there is little to no enforcement with motorcycle gross polluters which are more like 100% gassers !!! I am guessing defacto that the op or even you has/have never been near a motorcycle that "forgot to put on" a muffler and catalytic converter, or perhaps they have fallen off? " IF so, you two should get out more.
Oh and watch out for all those dropped motorcycle mufflers and catalytic converters !! 
My own experience is not a trip goes by where I am not passed by at LEAST one motorcycle.
Seems like it always boils down to enforcement.
As much as I dislike IM testing, that would be one way to get all the stinkpots off the road. You could run the program for 3 years nationally, and offer a cash for clunker program for those who can't otherwise clean up their ride in 3 years.
The rinse and repeat for semi trucks. Semis could go first in fact as a test bed - you could do the smogging at the existing weigh stations.
I am only referring to PVF. Semis have for years been HEAVILY regulated. If anyone doubts that, stop in and tour ones' local state run weigh station. But yes, a semi can also be reported. The NHSTA lists how many tractors are registered in the US. Compared to the PVF, it is almost not measurable to very small.
Right you are ! But in effect and DEFACTO, the municipalities and states and by inference the fed are in effect admitting that it is next to impossible to get lower than 5%. The corollary is that even tighter enforcement will probably be inefficient and ineffective for probably a lot of reasons and for a lot of metrics.
So if the OP (or even you) does/do NOT report this/a "gross polluter" that he/you followed, does he/you really expect that say I do? Or I should feel guilty for what HE does not report ????? In mental health circles, one would not be far from description/s in the latest DSM manual.
A more pc interpretation is that/those attitude/s (OP's)is/are highly elitist.
I suspect going after the stinkers - which are almost always commercial vehicles or pickups as the old diesel passenger car fleet has mostly aged away - would be seen as a strict regulation on business or some such nonsense, and the pseudo-libertarian types would go crazy.
It's the old 80/20 rule, with 20% of the owners causing most of the problems. But the real number is probably even less than the 5% that Ruking quoted above. When the problem is so visible with black clouds coming from tailpipes, it seems more like 50%.
Dodge and Ford should offer a big "get your old oil burner off the road" campaign with big rebates; trouble is many owners love to blow their truck's noses and let their clattering engines idle for thirty minutes while they drink their second pot of coffee in the morning.
You were talking about getting a bike last year Fintail. To fit the diesel driving stereotype, you really should get a Harley. And not a new electric one either.
anyone ever heard of a diesel motorcycle?
SECRET !! And then we'd have to K--- you ?
..."A more recent model, the M1030M1, can run on diesel, kerosene, JP4, JP5 and JP8 fuel."...
http://www.americanspecialops.com/vehicles/motorcycles/
A lot of the boomer Harley set have bikes as loud and shaky as an out of tune 1977 300D.
I live in a congested boomburb area and drive a diesel car, I don't live in a faceless tract development and drive a diesel truck as a commuter and for my bi-annual trips to Ikea and Home Depot
Some diesel truck owners have fun making smoke on purpose. The "rolling coal" ideal.
I like electric motorcycles, I'd seriously consider one. The "new" motorists in my area, combined with general distraction on the roads, has me only wanting a bike if I move, though. I don't know if the power delivery of most diesels would suit a street bike - diesels don't like to rev. And there are such things as diesel motorcycles
Well, after reading that road test, these diesel bikes make a Harley sound like a Lexus.
Really, " the rolling coal" idea is executed in the electrical vehicle option, as 40% of electrical plants are COAL fired. Percentage wise, not many (retail consumers) are "OFF GRID".
Keep in mind, I am NOT anti solar/wind power, as I helped a past office mate (some years ago) design an off the grid solar system for a 5,000 sq ft house with (additional) 2,000 ft of office and "shop" space.
Going off grid is HUGELY expensive. If it was such a crappy to great idea, they could require ALL new construction be 100% electrically served by on-property electrical generation. What chance do you estimate that that will happen? Really, such a simple solution !! ??
Not much rocket science is involved in figuring where the price of electricity will go if they are successful in getting rid 100% of remaining coal fired plants. Indeed those very same folks who advocated killing coal fired plants will fight you tooth and nail, if you want to replace that with natural gas fired plants.
They literal now fight you tooth and nail for solar and wind installation !! It is easy to see now as putting in solar and wind in cities are prohibitively expensive to out right BANNED. Anyone can google the Altamont Pass, CA wind project !! It is FALLOW most of the time and it is one of the most consistent windblown areas in the US and with consistent solar exposure. I think most environmental suit makers cut their teeth on suing this project for PRACTICE.
So for example solar and wind are BANNED where I live and I live less than 5 miles from the "old" Solyndra plant, that sterling example of (Idealistic) new age solar thinking.
Let's see you observe that drivers become more distracted and you want to go to a motor/electrical bike???? Hmmmm. Would you make me a bene of a 2 M dollar insurance policy on your life insurance policy?
Solar and wind power will become more and more prevalent and successful. Just because GMs EV-1 failed, didn't stop Tesla. All the governments of all the industrialized nations put money into projects to get them from R&D to commercial viability. Some succeed, some fail.
Let me get real specific, you know you have arrived when you have a DIY or COSTCO off the grid product delivered to your property and can be installed by a vendor of ones' choice ! Wake me when that happens.
Years ago @ that time, the parts list (only) for the solar and battery storage installation was $6,000. So I think realistically one is talking "upgrade" costs (total) of $2 k to 5k. It will have to offer some leverage on the electrical bill and offer some tax write offs AND tax credits.
@ that time just to get a stick NEAR the property was a fee of $25,000. Then there was the bill for miles of overhead high voltage line.
I think you can do that now via Home Depot, sorta kinda.
I don't think diesel car buyers are in the "greenie" mindset--it's more about saving money on fuel and on ovearall operating costs.
Diesel car buyers would tend to be more pragmatic I think than starry-eyed romantics.
There are probably more coal-rolling inbreds in old diesel pickups than the entire EV fleet.
Diesel motorcycle is another answer to a question nobody asked. Diesel engines lack the NVH refinement and sporty response that bikers want. Electric however, will grow a lot in the upcoming years, just wait.
There's at least three very active solar outfits in Las Cruces that I noticed last week. But there's a paucity of homes that have panels or solar hot water. Coming home across Kansas, I saw around 30 windmill blades being hauled north on a train. A little while later I had to deal with two wide (and way long) loads on one of our backroads hauling a couple of blades south. You'd think they'd get that coordinated, lol.
All the windmill blades were being hauled by diesel power.
Just the change to 15 ppm D2 (5 to 10% nominally delivered @ the pumps from 500 ppm 49 state 140 ppm CA) makes that highly unlikely to structurally a lot less pollutive, aka 97% to 99% LESS.
Most folks will not buy diesel cars, it's probably even worse for diesel bikes (@ or close to 100% gassers). So in that sense, why even ask? So you say you want the refinement of today's gasser motorcycles in a diesel bike? Ah, .... right.
I was on the road when they were jockeying a HUGE plane up interstate 5 . I can see me now, no really there was an aircraft right in the middle of the highway !!! OK a good candidate for the NUT house.
Pardon the aside, but just heard this story on the radio:
"The agency for years, under two administrations, has struggled to carry out a directive under the federal Clean Air Act to protect downwind states from pollution generated in other states, mostly from coal-fired power plants. The EPA’s rules from 2011 were challenged by a coalition of upwind states and industry, which prevailed in lower courts.
But the Supreme Court ruled 6 to 2 that the latest effort could be implemented, with Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg writing for the majority that the agency must have leeway to confront the “complex challenge” of interstate pollution." (Washington Post)
Your 40% number you mentioned earlier today may decrease a bit if plants switch from coal to natural gas or renewables.
Back to the (main) topic, Norway Municipalities to Ban Diesel Cars. (www.tnp.no). The ban would apply on winter days when the NO2 levels get too high.
Next door, "Scientists in Sweden have modified a diesel engine to work with gasoline, an adjustment they say could significantly reduce emissions and fuel consumption for vehicles on the road." (MSN - autorun video link)
I was under the impression that it is a slam dunk to go under 40% coal fired. This will "force" consolidation and "cause" coal prices to rise. There will also be a lot of jobs LOST. NNN it also will make coal viable FAR into the future, even as announcements of the death of coal are (way too) premature. Many to most coal states are predominately democrat.
Too funny !! ??? They (US markets) will not even certify an up to 100% biodiesel engine !! ?? The nexus is of course a sulfur ppm of ZERO !!!!!!!!!! HELLO !! Yet 30-90 ppm gassers are hunkie dorie (30 TIMES more pollutive, if one uses the FAKE ppm of ONE) !!!! (So now folks can see why the earth was FLAT for SO long)
If this seems not to be believed, show me ONE diesel (PVF) that Edmunds.com has tested that IS !!
I suspect the PPM of fuel doesn't matter for the coal rollers, it is fuel mixture. They run rich. Lots of youtube videos about it, and I am sure the LEO society ignores it with "discretion".
Diesel bikes will only be for weirdo applications like the bottomless pit spending budgets of the taxpayer funded Praetorian sector. Zero mass market possibility.
Evidently, it would appear that you (and most folks) ignore it also. ! (not that I have any expectation of a change of behavior)
The current diesel (mandatory) inspection is every two years. As you probably are aware, the visual smog test is performed @ that inspection: among other things (too minor to even list) .
(para #2 ) Kind of an interesting way of saying you agree with my take.
I don't ignore it. It's a huge image problem, and the biggest problem with diesel is image. But bending the will of "authorities" who have sometimes dubious legitimacy can be hard. Many older diesel trucks can't age out of the fleet soon enough.