What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

ruking1

@Mr_Shiftright said:
Good article but it leaves out another discouraging factor in trying to figure out the US market for diesels---the horrific early diesel cars produced in this country. Perhaps the UK was used to "edgy cars" in the 1980s that might or might not get you to your destination ("carry on regardless !!) but Americans were not at all pleased with the performance of 1980s diesel cars. Even the diesel imports of the day left a lot to be desired. Even Mercedes, with their acceptable turbo diesels, could only entice a few percent of Benz loyalists to go over to the dark side.

Question is: Does this ancient diesel nightmare really still linger in the American consciousness?

Each time I hear this, it was/is/ remains fairly obvious that the GASSERS ( RLG/PLG) which was even more of the passenger vehicle fleet PERCENTAGE wise, was totally GLOSSED over . It is as if if we forgot why we needed to take only the first of many steps: then to (literally and figuratively) GET THE LEAD OUT !!!! It was almost as IF the 80's were the GOLDEN AGE of gassers. I think you will agree, it was FAR from it !!!!! To wit, the (36 years old) 1978 Pontiac Phoenix ? Judas Priest, what a nightmare !!!! ERGO, it was just ONE example of the COLLECTIVE nightmare !!!

gagrice

@ruking1 said:
It is a smaller and for a CUV a very agile product. My sense is for short trips for 4 normal sized adults, everyone "sucks it up" a bit. For longer trips, 3 adults seems more the "ideal" level.

Agile and fun to drive was my impression of the GLK250 BT. To get all the bells and whistles I got on the Touareg TDI Lux would have been some more with 4 years full service. MB dealer was not looking at any discounts last August. VW was serious about discounts and the zero financing was just icing on the cake as we planned to pay cash. I would love to have the GLK as an around town short trips to mountains and desert vehicle. Not as a replacement for the Touareg TDI.

I would also need to test drive the X3 diesel and see if it matches up to the GLK. Probably more money as was the X5 35D. The X3 28D has a slightly higher mileage rating by the EPA. Will be interesting to see if it does in real world.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, plenty of American gassers were bad in the late 70s and 80s, and the diesel versions were even worse....demonstrably worse. They were so bad people just threw them away. Many of them seemed to be virtually unfixable.

I'm not sure many current buyers even remember all this---I was just wondering if there is a lingering prejudice---you know, recollections passed down to the young by the old.

@ruking1 said:
Each time I hear this, it was/is/ remains fairly obvious that the GASSERS ( RLG/PLG) which was even more of the passenger vehicle fleet PERCENTAGE wise, was totally GLOSSED over . It is as if if we forgot why we needed to take only the first of many steps: then to (literally and figuratively) GET THE LEAD OUT !!!! It was almost as IF the 80's were the GOLDEN AGE of gassers. I think you will agree, it was FAR from it !!!!! To wit, the (36 years old) 1978 Pontiac Phoenix ? Judas Priest, what a nightmare !!!! ERGO, it was just ONE example of the COLLECTIVE nightmare !!!

ruking1

@Mr_Shiftright said:
Yep, plenty of American gassers were bad in the late 70s and 80s, and the diesel versions were even worse....demonstrably worse. They were so bad people just threw them away. Many of them seemed to be virtually unfixable.

I'm not sure many current buyers even remember all this---I was just wondering if there is a lingering prejudice---you know, recollections passed down to the young by the old.

I would think the numbers and percentages of diesel ownership (ah, ... low and low in those 36 + years) make that reason an outlier.

I think it is more the enviro con mantra's and vilifications. Of course, NONE of those RLG/PLG vehicles caused ANY pollution or the switch to RUG/PUG cause ANY pollution during the exact same time frame )

I mean not that long ago, it was my ONE 2003 Jetta TDI that was causing ALL the pollution in the LA LA LAND Metro area !! ??? Interestingly enough, it has been/is/remains garaged 400+ miles to its north.

ruking1

@gagrice said:

For how I have learned to drive diesels, this small and twin turbo (T) TDI is pretty seamless !!

My sales experiences MB GLK 250 B/T (13 MY) were/ have been similar ! For sure the ML 350 B/T experiences were.

It would appear the 14 MY signaled a more "dealing" approach. Given test drives with fully loaded versions of the MB ML350 B/T, VW T TDI and GLK 250, there is almost nothing I would go back and re option on the GLK 250 B/T with. Well, may be 18 in tires and NO run flats on the GLK 250 B/T, but is not an option anyway.

In the " % rates" department, VW REMAINS better. It does remain to be seen how the 2.1 L GLK 250 B/T resale values fare.

ruking1

@ruking1 said:
I mean not that long ago, it was my ONE 2003 Jetta TDI that was causing ALL the pollution in the LA LA LAND Metro area !! ??? Interestingly enough, it has been/is/remains garaged 400+ miles to its north.

Interesting how things have " CHANGED " !! ??

AAA top 10 "CLEAN" list, list 5/10 DIESELS !! ??

The #2 has been shot down (Toyota "pulled the plug" on the RAV 4 EV). So that puts DIESELS @ 56% (5/9=) !!! aka, the MAJORITY of their CLEAN list !!

ecnmag.com/news/2014/05/clean-diesel-cars-garner-top-rankings-aaa’s-2014-green-car-guide

The "eco cons" really do not want "rare earth " mining to start up again, let alone GET into full swing. BUT, ... at whatever rates they want "battery and EV" vehicle policy to grow, they have to fish or cut bait. That is why Afghanistan is the raw prize. The Chinese are quietly staking out the rare earth mineral franchise/s there. (paid for by US treasure and BLOOD, this is in no way to diminish Afghan t/B) In fact, the EV path is NOT sustainable (on the front end) and/or green WITHOUT this "DIRTY" mining !!!! The CIA has estimated there is at least $3 TRILLION US in (low hangingfruit) "essential" rare earth minerals.

Personally one just has to say hmmmmmm. Why don't they just allow a specification for 100% bio diesel engines ? ZERO ppm sulfur ???????

What does this mean? We can then use biodiesel from ALL sources: unknown and KNOWN, aka, (just) ONE being ongoing WASTE STREAM sources, AKA RECYCLE WASTE WE WILL WASTE ANYWAY???? !!!! One google able example: Berkeley, CA biodiesel from the recycle station. (aka DUMP)

stevedebi

Not much viewing over in the VW Passat MPG forum, so I thought I'd repost here. My second fill up on the 2014 TDI SE was 40.2 MPG. About 80% highway.

gagrice

@ruking1 said:
The "eco cons" really do not want "rare earth " mining to start up again, let alone GET into full swing. BUT, ... at whatever rates they want "battery" vehicle policy to grow, they have to fish or cut bait. That is why Afghanistan is the raw prize. The Chinese are quietly staking out the rare earth mineral franchise there. In fact, the EV path is NOT sustainable and green without this "DIRTY" MINING !!!! The CIA has estimated there is at least $3 TRILLION US in rare earth minerals.

Yuck, No dirty mining in our pristine country. We will let the Chinese continue to control 97% of the REEs in the World. The Chinese are in the process of tying up more in Afghanistan and Africa. Not to mention they are gathering contracts for Lithium. Of course we have alienated Bolivia with the largest reserve of Lithium. All that means is we will not be able to build much of the Green products of the future, without paying extortion prices for the needed elements.

On the Greenest cars, I like the fact that 4 of the ten have our engine and transmission. No pure gassers or the Civic CNG car. I think it was an overall look at performance & greenness. I still don't see EVs as a real big seller. It did not take Toyota long to dump the RAV4 EV a second time. Three years and out. Could be the fact it was twice the price of a gasser RAV4. Toyota, Honda & Nissan just need to put their egos behind them and hire some German engineers to build them a good diesel.

ruking1

@stevedebi said:
Not much viewing over in the VW Passat MPG forum, so I thought I'd repost here. My second fill up on the 2014 TDI SE was 40.2 MPG. About 80% highway.

I think your post is an example of the versatility of the TDI.

We post 39-42 mpg in an horrendous daily commute (27 miles, 40 min to 1.75 hours, math is not pretty (18 to 36 mph)) and can turn right around, pack the Jetta TDI /DSG 6 speed with 4 adults and luggage and post 40-44 with 80% highway driving (@ 80 to 85 mph).

stevedebi

@ruking1 said:
I think your post highlights the versatility of the TDI. We post 39-42 in an horrendous daily commute (27 miles 40 min to 1.75 hours, math is not pretty) and can turn right around pack the Jetta TDI /DSG 6 speed with 4 adults and luggage and post 40-44 with 80% highway driving (@ 80 to 85 mph).

Is it the same engine? I believe the Jetta doesn't need the AdBlue fluid like the Passat requires.

ruking1

@stevedebi said:
Is it the same engine? I believe the Jetta doesn't need the AdBlue fluid like the Passat requires.

YES! and YES ! BUT, it depends what YOU mean by : "same engine."

In theory, practice and real world, I would expect BETTER mpg in BOTH exampled scenarios, given your Passat TDI, under our circumstances !!! There are obviously a myriad of circumstances and variables. The "non diesel" advantage is the Passat is the larger and heavier car (vs Jetta TDI) YET still is plenty capable of posting better mpg numbers. !!!

Initially, I was not a fan of the Ad Blue. Not that I am now a fully on board convert. Given druthers, I'd druther not have to have its use.

xwesx

Sounds like great results, especially given the newness, size, etc, Steve! I might manage the same economy out of my Fiesta on a good day, but it gives up a LOT of space to get there! The good side of that equation is that the fun-factor is in the Fiesta's favor.

Still waiting for more diesel proliferation....

ruking1

@xwesx said:
Sounds like great results, especially given the newness, size, etc, Steve! I might manage the same economy out of my Fiesta on a good day, but it gives up a LOT of space to get there! The good side of that equation is that the fun-factor is in the Fiesta's favor.

Still waiting for more diesel proliferation....

Size wise there is no reason to give up "FUN" as say, VW does have "size competitive" diesel products: GOLF TDI comes to mind, nexus here is the same engine and DSG/M/T both 6 speeds. Again, another angle of "versatility" of the TDI.

ruking1

@gagrice said:
On the Greenest cars, I like the fact that 4 of the ten have our engine and transmission. No pure gassers or the Civic CNG car. I think it was an overall look at performance & greenness. I still don't see EVs as a real big seller. It did not take Toyota long to dump the RAV4 EV a second time. Three years and out. Could be the fact it was twice the price of a gasser RAV4. Toyota, Honda & Nissan just need to put their egos behind them and hire some German engineers to build them a good diesel.

Not that the diesel forum is the place to resolve this issue, but the greenies will try to drag Afghanistan into the 21/22nd century ! I wonder out loud if the Chinese will make a move on the long time opium trade and vertically try to integrate it further?

Strange bedfellows hey? WHO's zoomen who? It gives "gay" marriage a new meaning. The GREEN movement joined at the hip with the Chinese and Afghans in rare earth, batteries, EV, religion, and the DARK druggie side? All we need now is ROCK and ROLL !! Makes me wonder if Karzais' brother is ready to take Afghani restaurants public to franchise ? Just think, they are going through ALL these efforts, so you don't have to go to the Berkeley, CA dump to get bio diesel.

Mr_Shiftright

I think your on the wrong track here---the flak about diesels comes mostly from people who experience the "diesel" only in large pickup trucks and city buses. And some of the big diesel pickups are rather obnoxious---or should I say "noxious".

Anyone who takes the time to 'care' about the environment would take the time to view the current stats on diesel and would realize that the modern diesel car is far from a gross polluter.

stever

"New TDI® S model reduces Clean Diesel entry pricing by more than $3,000."

2015 Volkswagen Golf: The Best Hatchback Just Got Even Better (VW)

xwesx

@ruking1 said:
Size wise there is no reason to give up "FUN" as say, VW does have "size competitive" diesel products: GOLF TDI comes to mind, nexus here is the same engine and DSG/M/T both 6 speeds. Again, another angle of "versatility" of the TDI.

Yeah, I do agree there. The problem is that size isn't everything. Basically, if I was looking to choose a $25K car, I'd go with the Jetta SW and get similar FE but more space. If I wanted the smaller car, there's quite a lift between my car and the Golf in terms of cost plus I give up handling. So, it really doesn't make sense unless I was in the market for a Golf TDI (e.g., a shopping list consisting of one car).

Like I said, just waiting on diesels to proliferate the market more. Clearly, VW does a fine job of this and continues to lead the way.

ruking1

@xwesx said:
Like I said, just waiting on diesels to proliferate the market more.

No doubt I heard you the first time. It is just (purely my .02 cents) an exercise in "Waiting for Godot", if my waiting for a 04 (back in 03) Honda Civic TDI, or even further back 1987 TLC TDI's is/are any indicator/s? So the corollary for you is a Ford Fiesta TDI ? Even Edmunds.com sez ( if I did the table correctly) SLIM picking with 33 current model diesels. To steal a tag line from Jacques Pepin, Happy Waiting !! ??

ruking1

@Mr_Shiftright said:
I think your on the wrong track here---the flak about diesels comes mostly from people who experience the "diesel" only in large pickup trucks and city buses. And some of the big diesel pickups are rather obnoxious---or should I say "noxious".

Anyone who takes the time to 'care' about the environment would take the time to view the current stats on diesel and would realize that the modern diesel car is far from a gross polluter.

Well you know it was not me that got us into the war there. For thousands of years they have had the attitude "COME HERE" WE KILL YOU!! Ah, .... did no one get the memo? Here is just ONE interesting memo !

..."As explained by Zbigniew Brzezinski: (SS under Carter POTUS)

The secret operation was an excellent idea. It drew the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? On the day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter, saying, in essence: 'We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam War.'[8]"...

Perhaps this is one reason why Putin wants so desperately to be a burl in the USA's saddle?

Shoot, a rouge Texas democrat was almost singlehandedly responsible for the RUSSIAN Afghanistan debacle and the subsequent fall of the RUSSIAN (evil) "EMPIRE" , by lightly arming the right Afghans !! (clue, "Charlie's War", Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts are in the movie, hardly card carrying repubs)

Nor is it I that is surrendering it by policy NOW. Nor was it I giving the Naval Academy speech. I can only think the Chinese are taking the CIA's assessment SERIOUSLY about the low hanging fruit of $3 TRILLION US of rare earth minerals. I am sure the opium trade is in the BILLIONS and that has been ongoing for @ least 75 years, not to mention hashish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Production_in_Afghanistan

So if one is off putted by a jacked up Chevy truck diesel or .... bus, and doesn't want to go to the dump to get bio diesel, what really does one want me to say?

I hope NOT WalMart pricing for opium, heroin and hashish !!!! It's already a fair guess the Chinese will charge arms and legs for rare earth minerals.

elias

yes in USA there is definitely still a lingering bias against diesels, especially thanks to the apocryphal stories being handed down between generations of USA motorheads .

most of the diesel horror-stories started with dudes who today are your friendly neighborhood anachronistic codgers who use words like "druthers" or "codgers".

let me tell you a story now about a friends ~1977 passat diesel automatic, and the most fun i've ever had with a tailgator.

ruking1

@elias said:
yes in USA there is definitely still a lingering bias against diesels, especially thanks to the apocryphal stories being handed down between generations of USA motorheads .

most of the diesel horror-stories started with dudes who today are your friendly neighborhood anachronistic codgers who use words like "druthers" or "codgers".

let me tell you a story now about a friends ~1977 passat diesel automatic, and the most fun i've ever had with a tailgator.

Given a prior post (low number and PERCENTAGE of actual diesel owners) , in all likelihood almost NONE of those "dudes" actually owned a diesel. The reality was/is/remains probably more like: I knew a guy, who knew a guy...... etc.

ruking1

@stever said:
"New TDI® S model reduces Clean Diesel entry pricing by more than $3,000."

2015 Volkswagen Golf: The Best Hatchback Just Got Even Better (VW)

Hopefully these "incremental" improvements results in higher sales and profits for VW. They have been, are one of the most profitable auto oem already. From a consumers point of view, (mine/yours) hopefully the NNN net/net/net effects are greater reliability, durability, continued product improvement, resale value, FUN, etc !!!

I would guess VW wants to incentivize further improvement on the 23% overall diesel "TAKE" rate. They already do have niches (i.e., JSW) where a model is app 85% diesel (TDI's) I have read the USA 14 Passat approaches 40% TDI ?.

elias

for the stories of the gm diesel cars, yes i agree with you, knew a guy who knew a guy.

2 of my neighborhood friends had diesels during 1980s, each seeing extensive use and parking within a mile or two of fenway park.

first was 79 (or 77?) rabbit diesel stickshift. da-glo yellow, brightest paint ever as were all the early VW rabbits... solid 50 mpg. attractive soot covering the yellow paint on the rear bumper/hatch.

other was 1977 (or 1980?) dasher diesel, with automatic and much fewer mpg. dasher was heavy and had the slushiest of slushbox automatics. it was a light/pastel blue. the voluminous soot clouds it emitted when floored after a bit of idling were opaque like the center of the galaxy's black hole, no light could escape.

ruking1

@elias said:
for the stories of the gm diesel cars, yes i agree with you, knew a guy who knew a guy.

2 of my neighborhood friends had diesels during 1980s, each seeing extensive use and parking within a mile or two of fenway park.

first was 79 (or 77?) rabbit diesel stickshift. da-glo yellow, brightest paint ever as were all the early VW rabbits... solid 50 mpg. attractive soot covering the yellow paint on the rear bumper/hatch.

other was 1977 (or 1980?) dasher diesel, with automatic and much fewer mpg. dasher was heavy and had the slushiest of slushbox automatics. it was a light/pastel blue. the voluminous soot clouds it emitted when floored after a bit of idling were opaque like the center of the galaxy's black hole, no light could escape.

Context again.

BOTH fuels: RLG/PLG and D2 had very much higher ppm sulfur. Indeed they were probably the same 38 years+ ago. This is not even to address the highly toxic LEAD that diesel did NOT have. Again, diesels were outliers then, as they are now. In the NOW, diesels have RISEN to less than 5% of the passenger vehicle fleet. Who really knows what percentage they were then ?

ruking1

Hybrid fuel claims often inflated: Consumer Reports
Paul A. Eisenstein | @DetroitBureau
Friday, 30 May 2014 | 1:32 PM ET

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101714817

Just posting the link !!!

...""We've found that the EPA tests often exaggerate the fuel economy of hybrids," said Jake Fisher, director of automotive testing for Consumer Reports."...

ruking1

@ruking1 said:
Slow diesel news day this Memorial Day weekend.

$3.99 D2

$3.89 RUG

$4.09 PUG

No real traffic or drama on the way up on the SOS/DD trek (420 miles R/T normally). Posted a 32 mpg on the upgrade leg (lots of stop and go and high desert side trips) . Mercifully both legs (seemingly) accident less.

I am not sure about what to make on the downgrade leg, as there were more than a few delays due to road construction and the disturbances that normally causes. We even took a few side trips that we don't normally take in our states' capital, during the work day. However, we posted 40.2 mpg for the down grade leg (275 miles). 49.6 mpg was captured on the computer screen in the mountains and for 100 miles. This was done on 19 in tires and the dreaded run flats to boot. A/C was blasting, as ambient temp were between 81 and 96 degrees.

I just fueled (a few days later after the SOS/DD DOWNGRADE portion) with a little less than half a tank remaining, taking on 8 gals / 15.6 gal tank, after 318 miles for an actual of

39.75 mpg

(40.2 computer ). Curiosity got the better of me, as I don't normally fuel till the M/T lamp/buzzer goes off (well, the local fuel station happens to be one of the cheapest for D2 in a wide radius area )

These are Interesting results for a 2.1 L TTDI, 4,246# AWD CUV, rated for EPA 24 C/33 H.

It makes me wonder what mpg I would post driving a 2.0 L Accord Hybrid which CR posts 40 mpg (30 mpg in winter). for EPA 50 C/45 H, the same way and conditions, the TDI is driven ??? (incidentally the Accord is -651#'s LIGHTER, AND sans AWD. So on weight parity alone, FAIRNESS would pit 4 extra persons @ 163 #'s each (total 5 persons) in the Accord H vs one in the GLK 250 B/T !! ???

The Accord gasser has a very high rating. And for the hybrid, it also has a high rating, for a hybrid.

CR might describe how I drive as "drive it like you stole it", aka, not my words !!! Mine are more like, " slightly to moderately "aggressive.

Here is CR in their OWN words and video's.

http://ca.autoblog.com/2014/05/31/honda-accord-hybrid-falls-well-short-of-suggested-fuel-mileage/

ruking1

14 MB GLK 250 B/T lists fuel tank capacity @ 17.4 in oem owners manual. However in more places MB lists 15.6 gal. I would delete this but seemingly there is not a delete option.

Mr_Shiftright

But really, can this aging population of 'American diesel victims" seriously affect the 2014 diesel market? It hardly seems possible.

ruking1

I would agree. The numbers do not support the opinion. I probably "resemble" this population, and you know how DOWN I am about diesels !!!!

nyccarguy

The official numbers on the 2015 BMW X3 Diesel are out. 27 mpg city/34 mpg highway. According to the EPA.

KCRam

A station a few miles from me that recently "upgraded" from no-brand to BP...

87 - $3.349

89 - $3.599

93 - $3.799

D2 - $3.499

Diesel well below midrange, and just 15 cents/4.5% above regular.

ruking1

@nyccarguy said:
The official numbers on the 2015 BMW X3 Diesel are out. 27 mpg city/34 mpg highway. According to the EPA.

It will be interesting to hear from adopters, the 411 (real world mpg, SOTP experiences, etc.) when it hits the market !

It has the 8 speed A/T, ZF? (one more gear than the MB GLK 250 B/T), it is slightly lighter(-16#'s), seems to have one turbo (vs twin turbo), -.1 L smaller, 20 hp less and - 89 # ft T less. It seems to be designed to beat the EPA C/H for @ least the MB GLK 250 B/T, albeit slightly 3 C/1 H. mpg. It appears the MSRP is higher. I am further guessing it has SLIGHTLY different operating parameters than the MB GLK 250 B/T.

The Audi Q5 would appear to be a WAY different animal with a 60 hp and 148 # ft T MORE, for starters!

gagrice

@ruking1 said:
It will be interesting to hear from adopters, the 411(real world mpg, SOTP experiences, etc.) when it hits the market ! It has the 8 speed A/T (one more gear than the MB GLK 250 B/T), it is slightly lighter(-16#'s), seems to have one turbo (vs twin turbo), -.1 L smaller, 20 hp less and-89 # ft T less. It seems to be designed to beat the EPA C/H for @ least the MB GLK 250 B/T, albeit slightly 3 C/1 H. mpg. It appears the MSRP is higher.

In my opinion the Mercedes 4 cylinder BT is the engine to beat right now. The specs on the BMW are almost identical to the VW GTD engine which is 184 HP and 280 Ft Lbs of torque. I think VW needs to offer the Tiguan TDI soon. I don't think the X3 or the Tiguan TDI will beat the GLK250 BT on mileage or performance. 369 ft lbs of torque from 2.1L is phenomenal. My test drives were on hilly back streets and that is where that torque was very present.

ruking1

@gagrice said:

Indeed MB seemed to have done quality homework. Upshot : for its market, and what it does, it appears it will probably not be trumped for easily 5 years. In today's marketplace that is almost a life time ! Sure, we will get the (NON diesel) incremental upgrades.

For those that do not care, it is very very seamless (gets one from point a to point be) . I am getting the feeling the engine and drive train has been well thought out and appears stout, reliable and durable.

nyccarguy

@ruking1‌

I'm glad you are happy with your GLK 250 BlueTec so far. Did you trade in your 2012 Toureg TDI for it, or was it just another acquisition?

ruking1

It is an addition.

nyccarguy

Cool!

ruking1

It looks like BMW is getting serious about a host of issues. One plan, cutting labor costs by $136 M. They plan to invest $1 B in the USA Spartanburg, SC plant which makes the BMW's SUV/CUV lines, among others I am sure.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bmw-plans-cut-100-million-euros-german-labor-205810704--finance.html

ruking1

This (2006) MONSTER really shows all the artificial limits that have been placed on turbo diesels !!! Bio diesel? YUP. 1000 mile RANGE @ 70 mpg? What?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1028667_trident-iceni-r-biodiesel-supercar

Mr_Shiftright

impressive but will it behave itself for 12 years like a regular production diesel? If you compromise on the engineering, you can easily post stats to beat a large volume production car.

If VW or Mercedes could have made an emissions-conforming, highly reliable, pleasant-to-drive diesel getting 70 mpg, that can operate under a 5 year warranty, they would have already done so. They certainly know how.

ruking1

I would say yes and no. The real issue/s would be what would be the cost for US market (or wherever it might be sold and essentially a one off) emissions certification/s (other certifications also)?

http://www.tridentsportscars.com/green-iceni

As you will note, there are currently no passenger vehicles that can be or are certified for 100% bio diesel. You can check any MB/VW owners manual and they EXPRESSLY prohibit any bio diesel ABOVE 5%. The implied nexus here of course is denial of diesel warranty work due to over 5% bio diesel use.

stevedebi

@ruking1 said:
I would say yes and no. The real issue/s would be what would be the cost for US market (or wherever it might be sold and essentially a one off) emissions certification/s (other certifications also)?

http://www.tridentsportscars.com/green-iceni

As you will note, there are currently no passenger vehicles that can be or are certified for 100% bio diesel. You can check any MB/VW owners manual and they EXPRESSLY prohibit any bio diesel ABOVE 5%. The implied nexus here of course is denial of diesel warranty work due to over 5% bio diesel use.

I'm not really up on the subject, would VW/MB making this choice be due to the engine being designed for ultra low sulfer #2?

ruking1

Yes.

However, on a TMI level, it is a pretty complicated and technical gobbity g--- back story. But then so is RUG/PUG which most folks use and most could care less about the technical gobbity g---.

Michaell

Interesting article in the latest C&D about the VW GTD and why it's not coming to the states. Turns out the suspension differences between the regular Golf and the GTI (which is the foundation for the GTD) doesn't allow for the AdBlue tank to be added.

Bleh! I really liked the idea of the GTD.

ruking1

@Michaell said:
Interesting article in the latest C&D about the VW GTD and why it's not coming to the states. Turns out the suspension differences between the regular Golf and the GTI (which is the foundation for the GTD) doesn't allow for the AdBlue tank to be added.

Bleh! I really liked the idea of the GTD.
@Michaell said:
Interesting article in the latest C&D about the VW GTD and why it's not coming to the states. Turns out the suspension differences between the regular Golf and the GTI (which is the foundation for the GTD) doesn't allow for the AdBlue tank to be added.

Bleh! I really liked the idea of the GTD.

It might be a plausible back story, should VW decide not to bring the GTD into US markets for whatever REAL reasons or back stories). Let's see, 33 years (1982) of making the GTI/GTD and GERMAN engineering STILL can't figure how to put in the equivalent of a wind shield washer fluid container? Where's Mulder ?

xwesx

My thoughts exactly! Although, I'm not sure that it really qualifies as plausible!

elias

just as i predicted for GTD. boo.

never believe a USA diesel car preannouncement.

maybe now we'll get a chevy cruze diesel SS with a stickshift. (i'd like mine in the "Maxx" form-factor please.)

ruking1

@elias said:
just as i predicted for GTD. boo.

never believe a USA diesel car preannouncement.

maybe now we'll get a chevy cruze diesel SS with a stickshift. (i'd like mine in the "Maxx" form-factor please.)

This (May 12, 2014) CR article might provide a glimpse into the why. (seemingly convoluted))

http://blog.caranddriver.com/all-the-speeds-vw-details-10-speed-dual-clutch-auto-plus-next-gen-diesels/

My take aways:

1. VW is not changing the policy of letting the technical innovations, constant improvements (etc.) percolate in the European markets first. Then, work it into, bringing the " more seasoned versions" years later, to the US markets. To wit the Golf GTD has been available on the European markets for a while.

So it would seem that the longer term products will be:

..."Neusser also specified performance figures for the next generation of four-cylinder turbo-diesels. The EA288 2.0-liter turbo-diesel will use two turbos to make a remarkable 240 horsepower in the next generation of the European Passat, as well as 369 lb-ft of torque. The most powerful single-turbo application will make 204 horsepower and 280 kb-ft of torque—for now.
...(inserts removed for clarity)
Both single- and twin-turbo TDI applications will eventually become even more powerful, said Neusser. And he got specific: He promised a bi-turbo 2.0-liter TDI with 280 horsepower; we’re guessing that one will create on the order of 400 lb-ft of torque or more. Twist and shout, indeed."...

So indeed, the product line SEEMS to be aimed to trump the (US market) MB 2.1 L, T TDI , 7 speed A/T, 200 hp/369 # ft, if objective numbers are any indicator. EPA's of 28 c/45 H are posted on the 14 MB E250.

2. It would also seem the gap between the 6 and up to 10 speed DSG might be a lot in the GTD, aka one reason to delay the US market debut.

gagrice

It was only a matter of time. I waited 15 years to get a diesel I wanted. Patience is a virtue. VW and BMW are going to have to catchup to MB on the 4 cylinder diesels. The Golf is getting a new platform for 2015 from some article you posted. Who knows the new golf may come in base configuration better handling than the current GTD. Can you imagine a Golf with 369 ft lbs of torque? My, my, my that sounds like a fun drive. Heck I could live with that engine in a Touareg TDI. If it gave me 10 more MPG.

ruking1

While I do like the idea of a GTD in a Golf, 280# ft is probably on the upper edge with slim safety factors in the existing and upcoming Golf chassis design. SEVERE changes would probably have to be made, for even 369 # ft, let alone 400+ # ft. I am sure corresponding $ increases would precede.

Indeed the extra weight (200+ #'s more) and 4WD does come at a premium/penalty to mpg. I see it between the 14 MB GLK 250 B/T 28c/33 EPA and say Fintail's ride. and/or the 14 MB E250 @ 28C /45 C EPA.